Punjab Government stops accepting foreign aid

PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Punjab Government stops accepting foreign aid

(54 posts)

12 Next »

Adonis
Member

Punjab Government has announced that it will no longer accept any foreign aid. The CM Shahbaz Sharif urged other provinces to follow suit so that foreign influence can be reduced in Pakistan.

http://jang.com.pk/jang/may2011-daily/17-05-2011/u70910.htm
----------------------------------------------------------------

Before the detractors rush in questioning the motive of Shahbaz Sharif, I would like to congratulate them on knowing what is in Shahbaz's heart, something which I thought only Allah knew.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 10:33 #
aftab arif
Member

I would also suggest him to bring back his foreign wealth so that Pakistanis could benefit.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 10:43 #
siddiqi73
Member

At least its a very small step towards self reliance which ought to be commended, no matter who takes that step instead of casting aspersions on such a move.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 11:12 #
aftab arif
Member

It's a good move but you cannot be free in your decision making if most of your wealth is in Western Countries.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 11:23 #
Adonis
Member

If "most" of his wealth is in western countries and he has still made this move, then it makes this worthy of even more praise.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 11:28 #
scandinavian
Member

@Siddiqi73

These are very old politicians and should know better. It's a must that they bring back their wealth to Pakistan. Otherwise they could be at least two scenarios.

A-They have an escape plan if "something" goes wrong in Pakistan.

B- They could loose all their wealth if the Americans decide to freeze all the assets of "unwilling" Pakistani leaders.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 11:28 #
Adonis
Member

Why is it so difficult for the fan club to accept that anybody other than Imran Khan can do something good?

Is this because it debunks the lie that all politicians are thieves and only GHQ Khan is the hope of the nation?

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 12:07 #
aftab arif
Member

SS knows that if i don't accept foreign aid that will do nothing too my personal wealth in Western Countries. If he really wanted to act independent, then all he has to do is block NATO logistics from passing through Punjab. The politicians only fight for one thing and that is for they personal gains, not for the interest of the country.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:24 #
bsobaid
Member

Does anyone remember sasti roti scheme? Punjab government is running on an overdraft. N-League tends to engage in populist actions but it usually fails miserably. Running government is a serious business that requires strategic thinking rather than populist short-term tactical moves.

I'd be very glad if Shabaz had presented a plan on how to survive without foreign aid and how will he make up for the shortage of funds.

Also, I'd be interested in finding out how much of the aid is given directly to provinces and how much of it comes via central government. I am pretty sure direct foreign aid to provinces is for basic health and primary education only.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:47 #
Just_one
Member

You can copy Imran Khan as much as you like, but you will never become one. Copy is after all a copy:

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/us-aid-to-pakistan-is-a-curse-imran-khan-on-cnn

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:52 #
siddiqi73
Member

@bsobaid,

Please keep this rant of roti and over draft where it belongs; a garbage bin. Give us hard and verifiable facts about sasti roti and Punjab Government being on overdraft.

Your second paragraph does hold merit that SS should present a comprehensive plan about how Punjab will sustain without foreign aid.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:54 #
siddiqi73
Member

@just_one,

The guy's copying him can also do something tangible. As for Dharna Khan, well he can only come up with empty rhetoric and building castles in thin air. He is absolutely entitled to that as well!!

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:56 #
bsobaid
Member

Siddiqi, Shabaz never responded to over draft and sasti roti accusations with numbers which leads me to believe the accusations were not unfounded. Also, the track record of N-League makes me believe these accusations are not false. Peeli Taxi, Qarz Utaro, Motor way; all of them were short-term tactical move that ripped the economy.

I'd be grateful if someone can post the total direct foreign aid to province and what programs will get effected and also how Shabaz plans to support those plans going forward and when (month/date) when he will stop accepting them as usually there are contracts signed for the flow of foreign aid with a start and end date.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 14:59 #
siddiqi73
Member

You have not come across clarifications to these nonsensical allegations because you just can't believe that PML (N) would do something which is un-wrong.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:03 #
bsobaid
Member

o baba, Shabaz se kaho foreign aid kee details dayy aur cheap populist games khailna choray aur Immu se darna bhi chor dayy.

"I'd be grateful if someone can post the total direct foreign aid to province and what programs will get effected and also how Shabaz plans to support those plans going forward and when (month/date) when he will stop accepting them as usually there are contracts signed for the flow of foreign aid with a start and end date."

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:09 #
runaway
Member

This is BS dramaybazi.

Provinces dont get foreign aid.

Federal Govt get it.

If he really means it then Punjab should give up portion of money it gets from the Federal Govt, because that in reality comes from IMF, WB, USA

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:15 #
bsobaid
Member

There you go runaway!
I also suspected majority of foreign aid comes through center. Province may be getting direct foreign aid but the number has to be small. The majority of fundings provided by center to provinces is based on the common pool of reserves that includes domestic revenue as well as foreign aid.

There are some programs mostly related to basic health and primary education that receive targetted foreign aids specially towards those programs which center then distributes to provinces. Stopping them invariable means stopping those basic health and education program unless Shabaz can fund them from some other sources.
aap ne meray sawal kaa jawab day diyaa aur Shareefo kaa aik baar phirr se poll khool diaa.

I'd be glad if someone can answer my questions.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:23 #
siddiqi73
Member

Tum log pollain kholtay raho aur yahan tumharay Bicharay Khan kay ghubaray mein say hawa nikal dee gai hai.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:36 #
runaway
Member

@sid
So you think there are only two possibilities in the world.

Nawaz ka sheedai

OR

Imaran ka Pitho

(hmm before it used to be Altaf ka kutta ).

Just because someone is criticizing PML-N doesn't mean they support Imran. Or even if they do, that does not mean they agree with everything they do.

Disclosure: Not an Imran fan. Would love to have Mustafa Kamal back as mayor :)

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:45 #
siddiqi73
Member

@runaway,

Oh crap! I would love to take you as fan club member than!

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:51 #
runaway
Member

See.. u still did not get it.

I did not say I agree with the politics of MQM.

I would love Altaf to retire or atleast keep his mouth shut.
I would love the Babar Ghauri types sidelined.

I liked MK because he delivered. I would love him to grow out of the chumma bazi and control his temper.

( I apologize for crapping on this thread )

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 15:57 #
bsobaid
Member

To me Mustafa Kamal is an ullo kaa pat**a.
For Karachi, Naimatullah Khan is the best ever.

Also, I cant deny the fact that NS and N-League kee wapsi bohot zordaar hoee hai, aur Immu kay ghubbaray se bohot saari hawa kamm hogaee hai.

Posted 1 year ago on 17 May 2011 17:19 #
siddiqi73
Member

@runaway,

Couldn't agree with you more my friend!! I personally like MK myself but feel that he is in the wrong party.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 5:54 #
iamsowise
Commenter

USAID, Punjab Government Fund 450 Community Midwifery Students
http://islamabad.usembassy.gov/pakistan/h07050801.html

Punjab govt signs accord with USAID for edu promotion
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Regional/Lahore/03-Oct-2010/Punjab-govt-signs-accord-with-USAID-for-edu-promotion

LAHORE - The Aashiyana Housing Scheme will have a special quota for orphans, widows, disabled and families of martyrs, Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif said on Monday. He was chairing a meeting of Punjab Land Development Company (PLDC) Board of Directors (BoD) at the CM's Secretariat.
The meeting reviewed in detail pace of progress of the Aashiyana Housing Scheme for low-income people. Shahbaz said that the Punjab government has launched the Aashiyana Housing Scheme for benefit of low-income people of the province and an autonomous company has been set up for this purpose. He said that under the Aashiyana Housing Scheme, houses would be provided to low-income people at reasonable rates and availability of all necessary facilities would be ensured.
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2011/01/aashiyana-scheme-to-have-quota-for-orphans-and-widows-cm/

Babu ji agar Punjb govt nay USaid laini band kardi tu ayashiyoon k leye kharcha kahan say ayega?

Aur Pakistan mein Politicians dollars kharch kar k atay hein sirf aur sirf ....USAID.... k lalach mein.

Agar USAID Pakistan ki politics say nikaal doo tu phr tu ye Ghatay ka business hay. Phr aap ko Chudhries, Zardaris, Lugharis, jatoes aur Nawaz nazar nhi ayegein.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 7:40 #
Adonis
Member

Provinces get their share from Federal Divisible pool which is funded by revenue from duties and taxes, not from foreign aid.

Foreign aid comes in two forms, loans and grants. Federal government borrows the bulk of foreign loans almost all of which go for the payment of previous foreign debt.

Provinces do get significant amount of foreign aid, the highest recipient being Sindh. Punjab received about Rs 10 billion in foreign assistance this year utilized in annual development program. To fulfill this shortfall, austerity measures will have to be taken. Punjab govt has already saved Rs 6 billion in education sector by rooting out ghost schools and embezzlement, so getting Rs 10 billion should not be a problem.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 7:42 #
runaway
Member

@Adonis

So you are saying Punjab Govt will only take money from the left pocket of Federal Govt and nothing from the right pocket :)

Jaib koi bhee ho..paisa tau federal govt ka hae na

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 10:09 #
Adonis
Member

As I wrote earlier, "Provinces get their share from Federal Divisible pool which is funded by revenue from duties and taxes, not from foreign aid."

The federation collects taxes and duties and a certain percentage of this is distributed among provinces based on poverty, population and tax incidence.

In addition to their share from federal kitty, provinces levy their own duties/taxes to cover their expenses.

Foreign aid is used by provinces for development programs. Punjab is going to cover the shortfall of Rs 10 billion created by refusal to accept foreign aid by its own resources.

Hope this is clear enough for you.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 11:06 #
runaway
Member

I guess we can keep arguing about this.

Lets say:

Federal Govt Income : 100 ( Foreign Aid )
200 ( Revenue)
Federal Expense : 100 (Loan Repayment )
40 ( Punjab from the Revenue )

Lets break the begging bowl

Income : 200 (Revenue)

Expense : 100 (Loan Repayment)
Punjab : ????

So you think Punjab should keep getting it same share?

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 12:35 #
Adonis
Member

It is Punjab govt that is breaking the begging bowl, not the federal govt. So how does it affect the federal expenses?

BTW, the federal divisible pool is not something that is left with federal govt after paying for its expenses. It is a revenue distribution at source (because it is province's money not federation's) and the federal govt gets only the residual after distribution to provinces.

Provinces have their own budgets and if there is any budgetary shortfall, provinces have to levy more taxes, take loans or reduce expenses. Their share in federal pool does not change because of this.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 12:43 #
awaisis
Member

PML N, was supporting military operations a year back, did not even condemn drone attacks openly, Yai party hawwa kaa zoor per chalte hai..

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 13:21 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Can the leaders enjoying high quality perks and privileges be sacrificing to refuse the inflow of foreign aid?

Yar, the nation is too tired of these dramas! Please bring something in reality to give life to the spirit of the nation. Our nation has become too disgruntled and dejected.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 13:43 #
bsobaid
Member

@Adonis, that was the question I raised earlier.

Provinces are allocated budgets from federal reserve pool that includes aid as well as domestic revenue. How can Punjab decide the aid factor from a mixed pool?

There is only limited amount of aid directly passed on to provinces and such aid is usually directed towards special programs which mostly include basic health care, primary education and housing as indicated by iamsowise.

Total civlian foreign aid received by civilian government, only by US was around 1.4 billion USD that makes it roughly 150 billion rupees. I am pretty sure Punjab's share in those 150 billion Rs. is more than your quote number of 10 billion.

It is also a matter of shame for our media that they cant even investigate such simple matter. I have not yet found a single investigative report in local media that details all these records.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 14:26 #
Adonis
Member

No. There is no such thing as federal reserve pool. Provinces get share from federal divisible pool and that includes "NO" foreign aid.

The aid received by federal govt does not have a provincial share. In case of grants, the donor countries decide which projects to fund. In case of loans, its primarily for budgetary support regarding foreign loan repayment as well as for some infrastructure projects as identified by federal govt.

The provinces receive direct aid funding.

And No, punjab govt or any other provincial govt has no share in the 150 billion of US aid. In fact even the federal government is not aware where the bulk of that aid is being spent because US govt decides which projects to fund and how much.

The 10 billion I quoted is actually 10.5 billion and that is the direct foreign assistance pledged to the government of Punjab by donors like ADB and World Bank, to be utilised as part of Annual Development Program. Federal govt has no role in that.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 18:44 #
runaway
Member

@bsobaid

I am not going to argue with @Adonis, but here is editorial from DAWN.

Mr Nawaz Sharif’s pragmatism is, however, somewhat tempered by populism when he emulates younger brother Shahbaz Sharif’s magical trick titled Breaking the Begging Bowl. Not the idea of self-reliance, it is the futility of the follow-up austerity measures that Mr Sharif proposes that tends to expose his statement as a political stunt. By right, the PML-N chief has left the window open for an intensified campaign against the government. Then again, his warning of a direct confrontation with the president and prime minister in case he is ‘not satisfied’ with the commission’s findings of the US raid on May 2 is out of sync with his other remarks. What he deems satisfactory has not been divulged; but he has raised suspicions about the competence of the would-be commission and a parliament he wishes to see as sovereign.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 21:23 #
bsobaid
Member

What I still think is foreign aid is included in the budget. For example if the aid was for primary education then the primary education budget is increased by that amount and then the total primary budget amount that includes foreign aid (loan or grant) + domestic revenue is distributed to provinces. This is how the majority of funds are released. There may still be some programs that are entirely run on foreign aid but the major part comes from budget.

I might be wrong but I need to see some official and credible document to believe.

Posted 1 year ago on 18 May 2011 21:41 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

If punjab government is able to do it , even then its the expense of other provinces especially balochistan & sindh. How?

The main produce of punjbab is agriculture which is sold to other provinces at market rates (world market rate) and then subsidies to agriculture is also provided and then on top of that agriculture income is exempt from income tax.

Now , balochistan produces (has been producing) natural gas which is stolen at through away price ( paying negligible royalty) and supplied to industry in other parts of country especially punjab.

Then , sindh (rather karachi ) generates around 70% of total federal revenue and if u look at the NFC award , its done on population basis and as a result punjab gets around 60% of divisible federal pool .

Please also note that the ratio between federation and provinces for divisibile pool is 50/50 . And all of us know that federation belongs to :)

Just on a personal note , i m a punjabi myself , Lahoria.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 0:13 #
Adonis
Member

A little research before posting would not do any harm.

Purchase price of agricultural products is determined by federal govt and it is much much less than international prices.

Gas prices are determined by fed gov and none of these are anywhere near intnl prices. Sui field gas has lower price because its price agreement was done in 1960s. More recent discoveries like Qadirpur in sindh are priced much higher.

The lie of karachi generating 70% revenue has been debunked so many times that even mqm has stopped claiming that.

And any one who reads newspapers or watches TV knows that provincial share in NFC award is not on basis of population anymore.

And I did not know that the fed gov is in punjab's hands. Zardari and musharraf before him must have been punjabis.

It is pretty obvious that the test tube khan fan club does not have the moral courage to acknowledge a good step taken by PMLN. So what to do instead? Make it a provincial fight. Way to go fan club! !!

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 6:32 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Adonis

GAS royalty concept was introduced in 1973 constituion and has nothing to do with 1960 so-called price agreement.

GAs royalty was first time paid under 1991 NFC award which was definately given in NS first tenure.

After that , Balochistan budget went into suprless and then federation starting deduciting gas development surcharge (expenditure incurred on supplying gas any where in country) from royalty.

Federal government decides the support price of agriculture produce in line with international prices & then agriculture produce is/can be sold in open market on market prevailing prices.

May i ask one question , if federal government revises agricultural support price , why not so-called sui gas price (as per 1960 agreement) be re-visited ?

I should admit that now NFC formula is not entirely based on population but still heavily based on population .

Instead of bashing others on so-called party affilation , its better to admit facts

Btw , who told u that i m IK fan club member ? Difference of oponion apni jagah , bahi, itna gira howa ilzam to nahi lagoo :)

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 7:11 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Further on NFC

The multiple indicators under 7th NFC AwardMultiple Indicators Weights

1 Population 82.0%

2 Poverty/Backwardness 10.3%

3 Revenue Collection/Generation 5.0%

4 Inverse Population Density 2.7% (Urban-Rural)

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 7:36 #
Adonis
Member

Gas development surcharge is not deducted from royalty, it is additional to royalty. So gas consumers are the ones who actually pay the GDS and provinces receive it. For heaven's sake, make sure you read and understand about something before posting.

Gas royalty has been periodically revised since 1985 and Sui well head prices are much higher now than they were at that time. Still it is a function of fed gov.

Again, none of the agricultural commodity prices set by federal government are anywhere near international prices. Some may call it discrimination against Punjab if low gas prices are discrimination against baluchistan.

But again, how this has anything to do with Punjab govt's decision to stop accepting foreign assistance?

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 8:16 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

Adonis,

Gas royalty was first time paid in 1991-92 under the NFC .

How come it has been revised since 1985 ???

how this has anything to do with Punjab govt's decision to stop accepting foreign assistance?

I was just explaining that at whose (other provinces) cost punjab is doing all this stuff.

If u don't think that agricultural produce is fetching international prices , then would u please bother to explain what cotton prices (at this instance ) are ??

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 8:20 #
Sharif Aadmi
Member

For my claim that how agriculture produce is paid. just an example

Internation wheat price per metric ton =375 $

1 metric ton contains 1000 kg.

Assuming $ @ 80

375 * 80 =30000

pakistan price per 40 kg =950 Rs

internation price comes to 1200 Rs

And pakistan wheat price @950 per 40 kg was set in 2008/9

http://www.mongabay.com/images/commodities/charts/chart-wheat_hrw.html

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 8:40 #
runaway
Member

@Adonis

Since you are not going to accept any argument.

I have more basic simple questions.

Did Punjab Govt did any study as to how much Foreign Aid Punjab receives? If they receive negligible aid then all this is topi drama.

How are they going to make up for breaking the begging bowl? Which programs / expenses they are going to cut?

It doesn't seem like Mr. Shareef has any plans to cut down his own expenses.

What would be long term impact on projects which received foreign aid?

Or is this as simple as making a press conference and claim that they have broken the begging bowl ?

I suggest other provinces should the same. What the heck, even Gilani should do this. And we would be free !!!.. Hurray

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 10:38 #
Adonis
Member

If you had not runaway from primary school perhaps it would have been easier for you to understand.

I have written in this thread a number of times what is the quantum of foreign aid to Punjab, where it is utilized and how will the shortfall be covered.

Now I can only commiserate with you on your dyslexia !!!

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 12:35 #
bsobaid
Member

Siasi Naara? economists are saying, not me...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2011/05/110518_punjab_economy_aid_zz.shtml

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 14:38 #
bsobaid
Member

I also remember from a news item from past that Punjab does sell wheat at international or close to international prices to other provinces so that other provinces do not sell/smuggle to neighboring countries and earn profit and cause wheat shortages in the country.

NFC awards are much fair now, thanks to current federal government and punjab government. Smaller provinces do not and can not cry over unfair distribution of resources.

Coming back to the topic, runaway, you are not the only way asking the question, according to the link in my previous post many economists and former treasury secretaries are also asking the same question.

Adonis, the 10 billion number you gave does not match with the link in my previous post.

I am not necessarily trying to refute Shabaz's claims but he should come out with numbers and explainations rather than making a siasi naara.

Also loans are still acceptable and grants are not.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 14:58 #
runaway
Member

@Adonis

Yes I did runaway from school and missed the class about deriding others when you have nothing to substantiate your claims.

Please do read the link provided by @bsobaid.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 May 2011 15:43 #
runaway
Member

The begging bowl breaker is continuing with his BS.

Punjab Govt claimed to have cancelled contracts for US AID. What they failed to tell (clarify) to the people was that they were not contracts..rather MOU. Which btw are signed by the hundereds but hardly realized into hard cash.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 May 2011 16:03 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

اب اغیار کے پاس جو اس ملک کی لوٹی ہوئی دولت رکھی ہوئی ہے وہ بھی واپس لے آؤ ''شریف '' صاحبان

Posted 1 year ago on 20 May 2011 19:15 #
aftab arif
Member

The Punjab government plans purchasing three vehicles for Rs200million for the security of VVIPs, contrary to its claim of saving public funds through an austerity drive.

The vehicles would be purchased from a single source and without opening a tender as desired by Chief Minister Shahbaz Sharif, an official told The Express Tribune on condition of anonymity.

The finance department has placed the money at the disposal of the provincial police chief for executing the task on priority.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/189011/punjab-to-purchase-three-vehicles-worth-rs200m/

Posted 11 months ago on 15 Jun 2011 11:55 #