Are they Muslims ?
PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion
Qadyanis ?
(60 posts)-
NNL
memberPosted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 1:02 # -
ased
MemberAre Sunni muslims?
Are Shia muslims?
Are Barelvi muslims?
Are Ahle Hadith muslim?
Are Sufis muslims?
Are Bahais muslims?
Are Wahabis muslims?Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 10:18 # -
NNL
memberA) there is no such thing as a Wahabi
B) Except the Bahais ( cos i dont know about them ) Rest of them have all agreed that Qadyanis arent Muslims.
So we are back to square 1 if all of them dont consider Qadaynis as Muslims so are they truly Muslims ?
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 11:42 # -
yahya
MemberPick any sect - its kafir according to others.
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 11:51 # -
toamin
memberAsk qadiyani what is the status of mirza ghulam ahmad qadiani?
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 12:16 # -
jaypk
Member@yahya....thts whd i have been repeatedly sayin..!! and i can give loads of reference is well..!! sub choro...3 time namaz parnay walay he kab say kaafir kehlaye jaa chukay hain bhai..!!
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 13:04 # -
Red-Scorpion
Blocked@NNL
"there is no such thing as a Wahabi "
>>>
I think followers of Mohd bin abdul Wahab are called Wahabies !
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 13:53 # -
NNL
memberRS the answer is given in the other thread where you had asked.
Lets focus on the current topic.
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 14:14 # -
ased
Member@NNL sb.
i wasn't asking though they are accepting ahmadies as muslims or not, i was asking are they muslims?Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 14:39 # -
jaypk
Member@NNL...since you asked me to clarify and come and particiapte in this thread..i would humbly ask you to clarify this first..
So we are back to square 1 if all of them dont consider Qadaynis as Muslims so are they truly Muslims ?
WE beleive tht they are nt muslims...all of our sects fiqahs masaliks no matter whd you call them..so i ask..who are WE...who gave us the authority ...who made us the champions of our religion...why do WE have to decide who is muslim and who is not...and above all...why do we have to declare it...WE as muslims havent rectified the basics of issues related to our islamic ummah..but still hovering around these issues to call each other kafir..!!
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 14:49 # -
Qadiyanis are not Muslims, Infact Qadiyani's are classed as apostates (murtad), not kafirs. Apostates are by consensus worse than kafirs and you are not even allowed to carry out business transactions with an apostate.
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 14:58 # -
toamin
member@NNL,
If you put two 5,000 notes on ground among which one is fake and one is good and ask a gentleman to pick one. Gentleman will use all his logic & information to make sure to pick the one that is good. Why, because he can see benefit and do not want to lose anything.
When it comes to deen we don't want to make sure to pick right one and help other also to pick right one. We let our friend pick fake one and thinking let him pick the fake one this is his choice. What friendship is that when one sees him doing wrong and not helping?
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 15:01 # -
aftab arif
MemberNot muslim.
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 17:39 # -
NNL
memberwell i m trying to understand the other point of view before i can help anyone.
One person is hell bent that they dont to listen then i can only try so much.
Posted 2 years ago on 08 Jan 2010 20:53 # -
qasi
Member@ased
ALL are muslim but not the mirza and his followers
I know you people very well
so Quadiyanies are Kafir and they will bePosted 2 years ago on 09 Jan 2010 1:09 # -
toamin
memberThey are worst than non-Muslims because non-muslims follow their religion, but these qadiani non-muslims abuse & corrupt Islamic concepts & teachings.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Jan 2010 2:36 # -
yahya
MemberAnyone seen this;
tauba. Is anyone left muslim.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Jan 2010 3:23 # -
ased
Member@yahya
sb jee this just normal in the muslimcommunities today, but wait Ahmadies are Kafir.
The Holy Prophet saw allready said that, his Ummah will be in the end same as the Jews, and their Ulema were the worst creation under the sky.
@Qazi sb.
this is it what I'm saying, everyone is muslim but not Ahmadies, but did you asked why is it like this. how come that a ummah which wasn't agree to work together in the name of Allah, but now they all are together against one group?
Wasn't this happend before? The Ahmadies should be very special that you are giving them to much intrest and making them Kafir, but they still growing and not only jews or christian are converting also "muslims" are converting to Islam Ahmadiyya, how this you never asked this?
the problems between you ulemas aren't finding any end. But you are still feeling good just because you clear with your self that Ahmadies are Kafir, you never ask to your self, that I was asking you to call Ahmadi and not qadiyani, but you all still do this, if you are good and sure that ahmadies are kafir, then why this hate in yourself?Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jan 2010 1:54 # -
NNL
memberQadyani. May Allah throw them in the deepest pits of Hellfire and make them suffer throughout the lives spent in this world.
Deserved to be called as such as they have insulted 2 Prophets in one go. Essa ibn Mariam Alahis Salam and Rasool Allah Sallaho Alahi Wasallam.
Dont you think if anyone insulted 2 Prophets at the same time should be treated with utter most worst treatment.
Posted 2 years ago on 11 Jan 2010 2:07 # -
NNL FIRST U DECIED ABOUT 73 SECT. THEN THINK ABOUT AHMADI WE ARE THE 74TH IN ISLAM
Posted 2 years ago on 16 Mar 2010 13:37 # -
@NNL
How do you define a Muslim?
What do you think one should believe in to be called a Muslim?Posted 2 years ago on 16 Mar 2010 17:30 # -
hkbajwa
MemberWell i think pretty much everybody here is aware of my particular perspective regarding this issue. Of course those of you who are anti-ahmadi will assume that i hold my opinions out of loyalty to a particular group.
that however is not the case.
It is my simple belief that every individual has the right to define their belief as they wish. They may call themselves, christian, atheist, muslim, jewish, pagan, wiccan, buddhist etc etc as they please.
In the court of God, He will be the sole judge of whether the individual definition is correct and whether the individual lived up to the criteria of his faith.
The basic criteria for being a muslim is complete faith in "la illaha il allah, mohammad ur rasool allah". Based on this belief alone, an individual can call themselves muslim. That is the fundamental cornerstone of faith. that there is only 1 god and that Mohammad (pbuh) was his prophet.
Now i know there are many who add a whole lot of caveats and conditions other than the basic articulation of faith in Allah and his Prophet (pbuh) but those are later additions to Islamic jurisprudence. In fact the issue of Khatm-e-nabuwwat didn't even arise for more than a thousand years after the advent of Islam. the fact that this condition has been lately attached to Islamic status leads me to view it with scepticism.
It is of course the right of every individual to consider ahmadis non-muslims according to their personal beliefs. It is also every individual's right to seek to counter ahmadi ideology and seek to lead other people away from this path for their benefit.
However it is not anybody's right to deprive any others the right to self definition. Any individual may define themselves as anything. There is no copyright laws governing religion and there is no patent office where you can petition to prevent a certain group or individual from defining their product as they wish. You may THINK that human government and/or ulema are qualified to do so, but they really aren't. Only God can decide.
@ NNL
You say they insult 2 prophets. that is most certainly not the case. Both prophets brought the laws of allah to their people. Jesus is accorded the respect he is entitled to and there is no doubt that ahmadis consider Mohammad (pbuh) to be the highest and most noble of the prophets and the prophet closest to God and the giver of the Final Law.
You consider them to have insulted the Propets... but in reality they have only insulted your perception. Do not confuse your personal "righteous" anger with the anger of GOd and his prophets.
The problem is that nobody on this planet can actually ask the prophets themselves whether they are insulted, and thus this anger is not a respresentation of how they or God actually feels about ahmadi belief. This anger is only yours and those who believe as you do.
fortunately there are many members in society and on this forum that accept the fact that the decision of right and wrong lies only with God.
Posted 2 years ago on 17 Mar 2010 4:22 # -
hamarapakistan
Member@ALL
Read the definition of a Muslim by our "SO CALLED ULLEMA" which was given in Justice Munir and Justice Kyani Report in 1954 and I beleive if you question them today they will give more complicated definitions of a Muslim than they give in 1954.And read especially the last paragraph of the report.
This is an excerpt from the report. Page 215, 216, 217, 218 only.
Below we reproduce the definition of a Muslim given by each alim in his own words. This definition was asked after it had been clearly explained to each witness that he was
required to give the irreducible minimum conditions which, a person must satisfy to be
entitled to be called a Muslim and that the definition was to be on the principle on which
a term in grammar is defined. Here is the result : —Maulana Abul Hasanat Muhammad Ahmad Qadri, President, Jami’at-ul-Ulamai-
Pakistan —
“Q.— What is the definition of a Muslim ?
A — (1) He must believe in the Unity of God.
(2) He must believe in the prophet of Islam to be a true prophet as well as in
all other prophets who have preceded him,
(3) He must believe in the Holy Prophet of Islam as the last of the prophets
(khatam-un-nabiyin).
(4) He must believe in the Qur’an as it was revealed by God to the Holy
Prophet of Islam.
(5) He must believe as binding on him the injunctions of the Prophet of
Islam.
(6) He must believe in the qiyamat.
Q.—Is a tarik-us-salat a Muslim ?
A.—Yes, but not a munkir-us-salat”
Maulana Ahmad Ali, President, Jami’at-ul-Ulama-i-Islam, Maghribi Pakistan —
“Q.— Please define a Muslim ?
A.—A person is a Muslim if he believes (1) in the Qur’an and (2) what has
been said by the prophet. Any person who possesses these two
qualifications is entitled to be called a Muslim without his being
required to believe in anything more or to do anything more.”
Maulana Abul Ala Maudoodi, Amir Jama’at-i-Islami —
“Q.—Please define a Muslim ?
A.—A person is a Muslim if he believes (1) in tauheed, (2) in all the prophets
(ambiya), (3) all the books revealed by God, (4) in mala’ika (angels),
and (5) yaum-ul-akhira (the Day of Judgment).
Q.—Is a mere profession of belief in these articles sufficient to entitle a man
to call himself a Musalman and to be treated as a Musalman in an
Islamic State ?
A.—Yes.
Q.—If a person says that he believes in all these things, does any one have a
right to question the existence of his belief ?
A.—The five requisites that I have mentioned above are fundamental and any
alteration in anyone of these articles will take him out of the pale of
Islam.”
Ghazi Siraj-ud-Din Munir—
“Q.—Please define a Muslim ?
A.—I consider a man to be a Muslim if he professes his belief in the kalima,
namely, La Ilaha Illalah-o-Muhammad-ur-Rasulullah, and leads a life
in the footsteps of the Holy Prophet.”
Mufti Muhammad Idris, Jamia Ashrafia, Nila Gumbad, Lahore—
“Q.—Please give the definition of a Musalman ?
A.—The word ‘Musalman’ is a Persian one. There is a distinction between
the word ‘Musalman’ which is a Persian word for Muslim and the
word ‘momin’. It is impossible for me to give a complete definition of
the word ‘momin’. I would require pages and pages to describe what a
momin is. A person is a Muslim who professes to be obedient to
Allah. He should believe in the Unity of God, prophethood of the
ambiya and in the Day of Judgment. A person who does not believe in
the azan or in the qurbani goes outside the pale of Islam. Similarly,
there are a large number of other things which have been received by
tavatir from our prophet. In order to be a Muslim, he must believe in
all these things. It is almost impossible for me to give a complete list
of such things.”
Hafiz Kifayat Hussain, Idara-i-Haquq-i-Tahaffuz-i-Shia—
“Q.—Who is a Musalman?
A.—A person is entitled to be called a Musalman if he believes in (1)
tauheed, (2) nubuwwat and (3) qiyamat. These are the three
fundamental beliefs which a person must profess to be called a
Musalman. In regard to these three basic doctrines there is no
difference between the Shias and the Sunnies. Besides the belief in
these three doctrines, there are other things called ‘zarooriyat-i-din’
which a person must comply with in order to be entitled to be called a
Musalman. These will take me two days to define and enumerate. But
as an illustration I might state that the respect for the Holy Book,
wajoob-i-nimaz, wajoob-i-roza, wajoob-i-hajj-ma’a-sharait, and other
things too numerous to mention, are among the ‘zarooriyat-i-din’ ”
Maulana Abdul Hamid Badayuni, President, Jami’at-ul-Ulama-i-Pakistan :
“Q.—Who is a Musalman according to you ?
A.—A person who believes in the zarooriyat-i-din is called a momin and
every momin is entitled to be called a Musalman.
Q.—What are these zarooriyat-i-din ?
A.—A person who believes in the five pillars of Islam and who believes in
the rasalat of our Holy Prophet fulfils the zarooriyat-i-din.
Q.—Have other actions, apart from the five arakan, anything to do with a
man being a Muslim or being outside the pale of Islam?
(Note—Witness has been explained that by actions are meant those rules
of moral conduct which in modern society are accepted as correct.)
A.—Certainly.
Q.—Then you will not call a person a Muslim who believes in arakan-ikhamsa
and the rasalat of the prophet but who steals other peoples’
things, embezzles property entrusted to him, has an evil eye on his
neighbour’s wife and is guilty of the grossest ingratitude to his
benefector?
A.—Such a person, if he has the belief already indicated, will be a Muslim
despite all this”.
Maulana Muhammad Ali Kandhalvi, Darush-Shahabia, Sialkot —
“Q.—Please define a Musalman?
A.—A person who in obedience to the commands of the prophet performs all
the zarooriyat-i-din is a Musalman.
Q.—Can you define zarooriyat-i-din ?
A.—Zarooriyat-i-din are those requirements which are known to every
Muslim irrespective of his religious knowledge.
Q.—Can you enumerate zarooriyat-i-din ?
A.—These are too numerous to be mentioned. I myself cannot enumerate
these zarooriyat. Some of the zarooriyat-i-din may be mentioned as
salat, saum, etc.”
Maulana Amin Ahsan Islahi —
“Q.—Who is a Musalman?
A.—There are two kinds of Musalmans, a political (siyasi) Musalman and a
real (haqiqi) Musalman. In order to be called a political Musalman, a
person must:
(1) believe in the Unity of God,
(2) believe in our Holy Prophet being khatam-un-nabiyin, i.e., ‘final
authority’ in all matters relating to the life of that person,
(3) believe that all good and evil comes from Allah,
(4) believe in the Day of Judgment,
(5) believe in the Qur’an to be the last book revealed by Allah,
(6) perform the annual pilgrimage to Mecca,
(7) pay the zaka’at,
(8) say his prayers like the Musalmans,
(9) observe all apparent rules of Islami mu’ashira, and
(10) observe the fast (saum).
If a person satisfies all these conditions he is entitled to the rights of a full
citizen of an Islamic State. If any one of these conditions is not
satisfied, the person concerned will not be a political Musalman.
(Again said) It would be enough for a person to be a Musalman if he
merely professes his belief in these ten matters irrespective of whether
he puts them into practice or not.
In order to be a real Musalman, a person must believe in and act on all the
injunctions by Allah and his prophet in the manner in which they have
been enjoined upon him.
Q.—Will you say that only the real Musalman is ‘mard-i-saleh’ ?
A.—Yes.
Q.—do we understand you aright that in the case of what you have called a
political (siyasi) Musalman, belief alone is necessary, while in the
case of a haqiqi Musalman there must not only be belief but also
action?
A.—No, you have not understood me aright. Even in the case of a political
(siyasi) Musalman action is necessary but what I mean to say is that if
a person does not act upon the belief that is necessary in the case of
such a Musalman, he will not be outside the pale of a political (siyasi)
Musalman.
Q.—If a political (siyasi) Musalman does not believe in things which you
have stated to be necessary, will you call such a person be-din ?
A.—No, I will call him merely be-amal”.
The definition by the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiya, Rabwah, in its written statement
is that a Muslim is a person who belongs to the ummat of the Holy Prophet and professes
belief in kalima-i-tayyaba.Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any
comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental. If we
attempt our own definition as each learned divine has done and that definition differs
from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we
adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the
view of that alim but kafirs according to the definition of every one else.Posted 2 years ago on 17 Mar 2010 18:18 # -
SufiSoul
MemberActually during united hindustan BRITISH RAAJ tried to divide muslims to weaken the resistance(JIHAD) against them so they black mailed/missguided some puppets like ALA HAZRAT AHMAD RAZA KHAN BARAILVI and MIRZA GHULAM AHMAD....
But we know that ordinary muslims are always ready and vulnerable to any religious stupidity.....
So these puppets later become the symbol of separate religiouns....
As some of in my previous thread i mentioned that thousands of Qadyanis KNOW THAT THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS AND THIER RELIGION IS BOGUS....BUTNow they cannot afford the consequences of being a converted muslim.....The social consequences are very tough and hard for these people....
I had a discussion with QADYANI CLASS FELLOW and very detailed discussion about thier religion and even very young Qadyanis are not satisfied with thier religion but they describe the same social consequences to convert to ISLAM.......ALLAH in ki madad kary jo mukhlis hain.........bus yahi dua hy meri.....
Posted 2 years ago on 17 Mar 2010 18:59 # -
alraji
Memberwho are we to decide for them their belief. let every individual decide for themselves. and please leave some of the decisions for God as well if you believe in Her/Him.
Posted 2 years ago on 13 Apr 2010 1:08 # -
yahya
Member"Actually during united hindustan BRITISH RAAJ tried to divide muslims to weaken the resistance(JIHAD) against them so they black mailed/missguided some puppets like ALA HAZRAT AHMAD RAZA KHAN BARAILVI"
@SufiSoul:
What about Maulana Qasim Nanutwi founder Darulaloom Deoband and Ashraf Ali Thanvi? What ideas were they propagating and for whom?
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Apr 2010 1:02 # -
یہ لوگ حضور کو آخری نبی نہیں مانتے اور عقیدہ ختم نبووت کا انکار کرتے ہیں
اور مسلمان ہونے کے لئے ضروری ہے کا حضرت محمّد کو آخری نبی مانا جائے
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Apr 2010 10:09 # -
alraji
Membercan anyone please define islam/muslim first before calling others as non muslims???
Posted 2 years ago on 14 Apr 2010 14:58 # -
alraji
Muslim is a person who submit his will to Allah,
Now what is Will of Allah
will of Allah is stated in the Quran and in the hadith of Prophets
Now for a muslim it is necessary to believe that Hazarat Muhammad (Saw) was last messenger of Allah, if u or anyone did accept it mean u r not the one who are submitting his/ur will to Allah.
Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 5:34 # -
alraji
Memberpsycho
there are so many flaws in your definition of muslim but i will point out one here...
what if someone believes in the last prophet but doesnt believe in Salat/Zakat/Hajj??? is he a muslim??
Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 8:26 # -
alraji
Brother submitting of will to Allah mean
That u didn't disobey the single of commandment
and namaz,fast, and zakat and hajj are the order of Allah as stated in quran and the book of Hadith
Submitting will to Allah mean, that u did do any thing against the will of Allah
Flaws are outcome of mind, not in the defintion,
The definition is perfect
Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 9:00 # -
alraji
Memberpsycho
'''''''''Submitting will to Allah mean, that u did do any thing against the will of Allah''''''''
>>>>
it means that if someone did anything against the will of Allah, he is not a muslim anymore.
this is exactly the definition of iman by khawarij which has very dangerous consequences. at least 90 percent of muslims are out of the circle of islam by this definition.
i am not sure if any other muslim would agree with this definition of yours :)
Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 14:05 # -
alraji
Memberahmadiyya is nothing but a scapegoat. i dont think they have any belief against mainstream islam. just read again and again the following belief of ahmadiyyas:
its very clear that they believe in khatm nabuwwat but our ulama need something to help them play with the emotions of the people of pakistan. and ahmadiyya sect is very suitable for this purpose.. the fact is that our imagination of ahmadiyya is based on ''suni sunaai and rati rataai'' notions.
Posted 2 years ago on 15 Apr 2010 14:20 # -
Alraji
All prophets are muslims and sahaba are muslims
because they always submit their will to Allah,
This is general defintion of muslim,
brother a u said i am not sure other muslim will not agree with definition,infact u r trying to define muslims
A true muslim who always submit his will to Allah and don't do anything against the will of Allah and will always agree with the defintion, but as in this age many muslim submit their will to their Nafas so they will not agree
But muslim like us or me who partialy submit will to Allah and Partialy to Nafas will not agree.
There are
1. True muslims
2. Weak muslims
True muslims falls in the catagory of the definition
and weak muslim don't because definition needs perfection not weakness
Because definition directly relates to true muslims
Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 6:54 # -
shriq
Member"Qadyani. May Allah throw them in the deepest pits of Hellfire and make them suffer throughout the lives spent in this world."
If you differ from them, why dont you pray for their Hidayat. Hell or heaven has to be decided by Allah! He can give Hidayat to anybody?
"WALLAHU YAHDEE MANYYASAHU"
Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 10:02 # -
NNL
memberIn Response to the Ayah that you posted
a)
Alam tara ila allathee hajja ibraheema fee rabbihi an atahu Allahu almulka ith qala ibraheemu rabbiya allathee yuhyee wayumeetu qala ana ohyee waomeetu qala ibraheemu fainna Allaha yatee bialshshamsi mina almashriqi fati biha mina almaghribi fabuhita allathee kafara waAllahu la yahdee alqawma alththalimeenab) FalaAAallaka bakhiAAun nafsaka AAala atharihim in lam yuminoo bihatha alhadeethi asafan
c) Kayfa yahdee Allahu qawman kafaroo baAAda eemanihim washahidoo anna alrrasoola haqqun wajaahumu albayyinatu waAllahu la yahdee alqawma alththalimeena
My Nabi Rasool Allah Sallaho Alayhi Wa Ala Aalayhi Wasallam cursed the evil doers and the mushrikeen of Makkah and Madina. I wonder if he didnt know about the above ayah that you quoted
Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:16 # -
araji
Why u people call "Mirza Ghulam Muhammad" Jesus.
Infact mirza ghulam muhammad was not jesus.
can u prove us how mirza ghulam muhammad fullfill the propehcy of Jesus.
Posted 2 years ago on 16 Apr 2010 12:40 # -
alraji
Member@ psycho
''''''''یہ لوگ حضور کو آخری نبی نہیں مانتے اور عقیدہ ختم نبووت کا انکار کرتے ہیں
اور مسلمان ہونے کے لئے ضروری ہے کا حضرت محمّد کو آخری نبی مانا جائے''''''''
>>>
at least from the above quote from ghulam ahmad's book its clear that ahmadis believe in the finality of prophet muhammad and its a wrong accusation with no base that they dont believe in the finality of prophet muhammad.
''''''''Why u people call "Mirza Ghulam Muhammad" Jesus.''''''
>>>
well i dont call him a jesus but i think if someone does it doesnt make him non muslim as far islamic laws of takfeer are concerned. all the muslims believe that jesus will come so why not to believe that ghulam ahmad was jesus instead of waiting for something that never gonna happen. i am sure that even if real jesus came, islamic molvis will never believe in him coz it will undermine their authority...Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 0:24 # -
alraji
Member@ psycho
'''''brother a u said i am not sure other muslim will not agree with definition''''''
>>>
brother i think even you will not agree with your definition of muslim because it means that anyone who commits sin is out of the circle of islam... do you believe in this???
''''''''Muslim is a person who submit his will to Allah,
Submitting will to Allah mean, that u did (not) do any thing against the will of Allah'''''''''just think about your definition it means that if any muslim does anything against the will of Allah, he is no more muslim. so if anyone watches tv, he is no more a muslim.
is that really what you mean???Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 0:34 # -
araji
if a person watch tv, in tv he sees wrong thing which violates the princple of Allah as stated in the books of hadiths and Golorious Quran, so his case is in doubt, because he is submitting his will to his "Nafas" infact he know the truth that Allah has prohibted that thing
Brother nafas is representative of satan in this world, and "Rooh" is representative of Allah in this world
Rooh always guide people when they try to do sins, suppose i don't wake up early in the morning for Fajar Prayer, infact i am violating the laws of Allah and submitting my will to "Nafas". When i wake my "consience" blame me for that, that is rooh
I already told u when u define somthing, it require perfection,
Perfect mean not weak, definition are flawless according to logic, if u define muslim as
" muslim is person who sometime submit his will to nafas and sometime to Allah"
that is not perfect definition as we are doing in this age
so Definition according to general principle require perfection not weakness,
So brother if we define
muslim mean a person who always submit his will Allahit mean perfect muslim, like Prophets and sahabas and true muslims
weak muslim like us doesn't fall in the definition of muslim.
زبان سے کیہ بھی دیا لا الا تو کیا حاصل
دل و نگاہ مسلمان نہیں تو کچھ بھی نہیںPosted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 5:13 # -
Alraji
اگر اوپر والی بات سچ ہے تو کیا یہ بھی سچ نہیں کے اپ لوگ مرزا غلام قادیانی کو نبی مانتے ہو ، میں نے تو یہ بھی سنا ہے مرزا غلام کو وحی نازل ہوتی تھی .
، وہی تو نبیوں کو نازل ہوتی ہے .دوسری بات یہ ہے کے حضرت عیسیٰ جب آیئں گے تو وہ دجال کے فتنہ کو ختم کریں گے ، لیکن مرزا صاحب کے دور میں تو کوئی دجال نہیں تھا، اور حضرت عیسیٰ صلیب توڑ دیں گے لیکن مرزا نے تو کسی صلیب کو نہیں توڑا ، اور حضرت عیسیٰ تمام دنیا کے عیسا ایوں کو مسلیمان کریں گے لیکن مرزا نے تو کسی کو مسلمان نہیں کیا . تو پھر ہم مرزا کو کیوں حضرت عیسیٰ مانے . اپ نے کہا میں مرزا کو حضرت عیسیٰ نہیں مانتا لیکن اس کے بعد اپ کہ رہے ہیں کہ مرزا کو حضرت عیسیٰ ماننا نتے میں کیا برائی ہے، یہ اپ کے الفاظ میں تضاد کیوں ہے .
مرے بھا ی
The Last Hour will not come before there come forth thirty Dajjals (imposters), each presenting himself as an apostle of Allah.
(Abu Dawood)
The Qur’an also points to the advent of false prophets. One verse pertaining to this topic is the following:
Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents lies against Allah or denies His Signs, or who says, “It has been revealed to me,” when nothing has been revealed to him, or someone who says, “I will send down the same as Allah has sent down”? If you could only see the wrongdoers in the throes of death when the angels are stretching out their hands, saying, “Disgorge your own selves! Today you will be repaid with the punishment of humiliation for saying something other than the truth about Allah, and being arrogant about His Signs.” (Surat al-Anam: 93)
The Last Hour will not come until you see the descent of ‘Isa (as) son of Maryam (as).
(Muslim)
“By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Maryam (as), ‘Isa (as), will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)/
The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)
The Prophet (saas) tells what ‘Isa (as) will do when he returns:
At the time of his death, 'Isa (as) will have reappeared on this earth for forty years.
(Abu Dawood)
‘Isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will descend, rule for 40 years with the book of Allah and my sunnah, and die.
(Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan
fi Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir al-Zaman)The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa (as)) descends amongst you as a just ruler.
(Bukhari)
‘isa (as), son of Maryam (as), will be a just judge and just ruler (in my community), break and crush the cross and kill the pig ... The earth will be so filled of peace as a vessel is filled with water. The entire world shall recite and follow one and the same Word and none shall be worshipped except Allah.
(Ibn Majah)
The Hour will not be established until the son of Maryam (as) (i.e. ‘Isa) (as) descends amongst you as a just ruler, he will break the cross, kill the pigs…
(Bukhari
Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 5:32 # -
1. "Muslim is a person who submit his will to Allah"
For the last several centuries there is a total failure to define,
Who Is Muslim?2. The post by Hamara Pakistan, is enough to understand the confusion of Muslim Jurists and Muftis.
3. At present Muslim is a person who submits his will to a local Mullah.
4. After all what is special to be a 'Good Muslim' but a 'Bad Human Being'?
Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 11:20 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberOnly a Qadiyani will favor a Qadiyani.
It is better to be a bad Muslim than a good Qadiyan.
A Muslim believes and submits to one Allah and believes Mohammed peace be upon him as Allah's last Prophet.
Also a Muslim believes in Quaran and Hadees-e-Mubaraka.
If he believes in all of the above he is a Muslim. Lacks even one and he can be anything but a Muslim.
Live with this that Qadiyanis are doomed minority and they are bound to stay that way.Posted 2 years ago on 17 Apr 2010 17:56 # -
Believe in Allah, Quran, Hadees and Mohammad (PBUH) is not enough to feel PROUD and become a Champion and Custodian of Islam.
Persons like Mullah Omer, Osam Bin Laden, Yazeed,Zai Ul Haq also believed Allah, Quran and Mohammad.
All religious suicide bombers believe in all what you mentioned.
For your information Baba Nanak the founder of Sikh Religion also believed in that.
Bottom Line is that all the existing sects of Muslims are confused and doomed, as their foundation is full of conflicts and confusions.Posted 2 years ago on 18 Apr 2010 16:55 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberHear hear From Javid shakh
Believe in Allah, Quran, Hadees and Mohammad (PBUH) is not enough to feel PROUD and become a Champion and Custodian of Islam.
A qadiyani speaks out loud in the form or a new Qadiyani mulla as javid shakh.
Forgot to mention fully Mohammed as the last Prophet and this is how you and your creed is exposed. Munkir is what you are while let others label you as a m u n a f i q too. Anyway what is your pain? Why religious zealots like you don’t like to have a champion or custodian of Islam? Your book is from Rabwa or Qadiyan and in what language. What about your Ahadees in Gurmukhi may be.
Bottom line is hypocrities like you are confused and blame Muslims instead.Posted 2 years ago on 18 Apr 2010 17:17 # -
alraji
Memberpsycho
''''''اگر اوپر والی بات سچ ہے تو کیا یہ بھی سچ نہیں کے اپ لوگ مرزا غلام قادیانی کو نبی مانتے ہو ، میں نے تو یہ بھی سنا ہے مرزا غلام کو وحی نازل ہوتی تھی .
، وہی تو نبیوں کو نازل ہوتی ہے'''''''>>>
وأوحى ربك إلى النحل أن إتخذي من الجبال بيوتا ومن الشجر ومما يعرشون Quran 16:68
well done Mr psycho. then according to the above mentioned verse the bee is also your prophet...Quran says clearly that He sent ''wahi'' to the bee.
he also ''sent wahi'' to the mother of moses:
و أوحينا إلى أم موسى أن أرضعيه فإذا خفت عليه فألقيه في اليم
28:7she is also prophetess then and it would be contradiction in quran as another verse refuse that there has been any female prophetess:
وما أرسلنا من قبلك إلا رجالا نوحي إليهم فاسألوا أهل الذكر إن كنتم لا تعلمون
''''Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration.''''' 21:7
psycho brother
i dont know why are you so eager to categorize every person. let me tell you very clearly that i am not affiliated with any sect. i dont believe that mirza was a prophet or wali or mujaddid etc. so please dont define me as someone that i am not.
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Apr 2010 10:41 # -
Naseem,
Qoute:
"A qadiyani speaks out loud in the form or a new Qadiyani mulla as javid shakh."Just one sentence from your keyboard is enough to expose the 'depth' and 'high' level of your thinking.
My dear,
I am a Muslim by Chance, not by Choice and your prejudice is pushing me to a domain of sectarian Islam.I hold that all of the existing sects of Muslims are confused, derailed and lost, including Qadyyani.
I respect a normal, moderate, well balanced human being who is contributing something positive for humanity without bothering about nationality or ethnicity.
There is no separate Aspirin, for Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Christians.
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Apr 2010 13:40 # -
Dear brother alraji
I don't now why u are acting like that and making fun of Quran.
Brother Quran is ocean of grammer, The quran is source of grammer all arabic grammer is drived from quran, that is the beauty of Quran
Brother u don't know difference b/w "inspiration" and "revelation"
and u know that women and bees cann't be prophet
i don't know why u don't know about revelation which had been revelead on the prophet by Allah and playing with the words of Quran.
1. What do People think about Mirza Ghulam Muhammad
2. if u don't believe in Mirza or any sectt then Why u r defending Qidyanis
3. Why u r playing with the word of Quran in real u know i am talking about revelation.
4. Why u r trying to hide the facts in the shadows.5. Why u are running, In first u come and says
||||||""""can anyone please define islam/muslim first before calling others as non muslims???""""|||6. Now why u r acting like that
I told u brother Quran is ocean of grammer, every words has 100 meaning
I am not crticizing but telling u the truth.
U r quite knoweldgeable man and why u r throwing urselve in hell by defending Qidyanis
now i tell u what difference b/w Qidyani and muslims
The following are some of the difference between Islam and Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat ):
1.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) is based on the belief that Mirza was an improved second reincarnation of hazrat Muhammad(SAW).
2.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) rejects the concept of absolute Finality of Prophethood in hazrat Muhammad(SAW), as confirmed in Quran, Hadith, Sunnah of the Holy Prophet(SAW), Tradition of Companions, the writings of Muslim Scholars and personalities, and concensus of the entire Ummah for almost 1500 years.
3.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was a Prophet (nabi and rasul) of God.
4.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) rejects the concept of completion of the revelations of Allah(SWT) in the Holy Quran.
5.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) holds that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani's revelations (Books) were on the same level as all prior revelations (Quran, Bible, Torah). In their view, simply following Quran and Sunnah, as Muslims have done since the beginning of Islam, is not a basis for living a righteous life and gaining the pleasure of the Creator. Interestingly, the Qadiani leadership has refused to allow a translation of these books, so that everyone may become familiar with the irrational teachings and contradictory claims of the founder of their organization.
6.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) rejects authentic Hadith based on Mirza's alleged revelations and teaches his personal interpretation of the Holy Quran. Qadiani (Ahmadiyya) leadership has forged several unauthentic translations of the Holy Quran to try to confuse and mislead uninformed individuals.
7.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) teaches that Jesus(pbuh) had been crucified, but did not die from his injuries. Instead, it advocates the view that Jesus(pbuh) recovered from his injuries, escaped to Kashmir (India), where he lived for another 86 years, and is buried there.
Whereas Jesus(pbuh) is acknowledged as a great prophet of Allah in Islam, Mirza Ghulam took the liberty of making demeaning and vulgar remarks against him and his honored mother, rejected his miracles, belittled his mission and denied his return before the Day of Judgment. It is such unbecoming teachings that have resulted in hateful retributions by extremist Christians evangelical groups against Muslims, Prophet Muhammad(SAW), and Islam.
8.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was "the promised Messiah". The Qadianis (Ahmadis) reject the advent of Jesus Christ(pbuh), son of Mary, as the Messiah, just before the Day of Judgment.
9.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) teaches that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was also the promised Mahdi (guided one).
10.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) teaches that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was also the expected Hindu lord, Krishna.
11.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) intollerantly declares the entire manking, except for those who naively accept the irrational notions and contradictory claims of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, to be unbelievers and bound for hell. Qadiani leadership has announced all Muslims to be unbelievers and has forbidden its followers from wedding their daughters to Muslims, praying behind Muslims, and offering prayer on their deceased - be it a child or an adult.
12.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) teaches that struggle for freedom, independence and self-determination against the tyranny, extremism and oppression (Jihad) of those military powers that support Qadianism has been made Haraam.
At its birth, being a protoge of the oppressive British Empire of the time, Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) required complete devotion and obedience to the British Government, as an article of faith. While freedom loving people around the globe were rising up against the British subjugation, Qadianis were being required to be willing to sacrifice their wealth, talent, and soul in the cause of the Crown. Britain is presently the headquarter of the Qadiani Movement.
13.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) holds two cities in India (Qadian) and Pakistan (Rabwah) as holy as Mekkah and Madinah. Qadianis (Ahmadiyya) are supposed to perform Hajj by attending their annual congregation, instead of visiting Mekkah.
14.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) maintains that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani was superior to all the Prophets(pbut) of Allah(SWT).
15.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) refers to the companions of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani as Sahaba and his wives as Mother of the Believers (Ummahatul Muminin).
16.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) advances the notion that many verses of the Holy Quran were revealed to Mirza Ghulam Qadiani and that many of the praises of Prophet Muhammad(SAW), mentioned in Quran, were really intended for Mirza Ghulam Qadiani.
17.Qadianism (Ahmadiyyat) claims Mirza's Mosque at Qadian (India) to be Masjid-ul-Aqsa
Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Hadid, 57:16)Posted 2 years ago on 19 Apr 2010 16:07 # -
Who could do greater wrong than someone who invents lies against Allah or denies His Signs, or who says, “It has been revealed to me,” when nothing has been revealed to him, or someone who says, “I will send down the same as Allah has sent down”? If you could only see the wrongdoers in the throes of death when the angels are stretching out their hands, saying, “Disgorge your own selves! Today you will be repaid with the punishment of humiliation for saying something other than the truth about Allah, and being arrogant about His Signs.” (Surat al-Anam: 93)
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Apr 2010 16:20 # -
alraji
MemberDear brother psycho
'''''I don't now why u are acting like that and making fun of Quran.''''
نعوذ بالله من ذالك khuda wo din na laae ke mein Quran kareem ka mazaq uraaon... i am just trying to tell you that according to islamic scholars if someone has only one sign of islam, no one is allowed to call them kafir. Quran says itself:
وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ لِمَنْ أَلْقَى إِلَيْكُمُ السَّلاَمَ لَسْتَ مُؤْمِناً تَبْتَغُونَ عَرَضَ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا
''say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art none of a believer!" Coveting the perishable goods of this life: with Allah are profits and spoils abundant.'' 4:94according to bukhari and muslim:
وفي الصحيحين: (أيما رجل قال لأخيه يا كافر فقد باء بها أحدهما).
''if someone call another a kafir, then one of them is kafir.''brother one thing i dont understand. what is the need to call others as kafir. i can tell you about hundreds of ahadith where muslims are prohibited from calling others as kafir. but you cant show me even a single hadith where they are allowed to call others as kafir. i still have to find a single hadith where prophet has called another person as kafir unless s/he themselves call themselves a kafir. even in the case of munafi qeen prophet never call them a kafir. who are we then to call others kafir. do we know what is inside the other people's hearts. let God deal with whoever is kafir inside and call themselves muslim.
'''Brother u don't know difference b/w "inspiration" and "revelation" ''''
brother it shows you dont read/understand arabic. in these verses i wrote arabic verses coz i knew the translation would be misleading. i thought you at least would be able to read if not understand the arabic. coz the words of ''wahi are very clear and even someone who can read urdu can read them. but you perhaps have only relied on translation and thought that they will translate the word ''wahi'' as ''wahi'' in english.
but its not important thing.. the important thing is not to call others kafir.
Posted 2 years ago on 19 Apr 2010 16:46 #
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