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Quaid-e-Azam negated secularism

(80 posts)
12

  1. toamin
    member

    well we are applying even older political model right now, but you see you don't even know about it!

    islam is the most modern model at the moment!

    study plato's republic and then let me know what you get from it and also tell me how old that is.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:14 #

  2. BaliMA
    Member

    what you are calling islam is not actually islam but something worked out by learned men of their time. This was developed in the 9th century which might have been fit for that time but is not fit for the modern period. If you have the brains to come up with something better than do so.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:16 #

  3. toamin
    member

    Why don't you apply this on the 2500 year old political model?

    Plz listen to suggestion above, it will tell you that Islam is the most modern ideology at the moment.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:18 #

  4. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    BaliMA: I hope you'r not blind *smile*. I posted video series in my original post, which have the references relevant to the topic.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:28 #

  5. BaliMA
    Member

    haris khan teray maie sadkay jaoun tum zahid hamid ko scholar samaj kar us ki Quaid Azam paie ground breaking research ka prechar kar rehay hou. Tum naie tu mujhey heeran aur preshaan kar diya haie.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:30 #

  6. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @BaliMA: The presenter is Zaid Hamid, but he's quoting Quaid-e-Azam's words from Quaid-e-Azam's speeches, from before! partition.

    P.S. Nahi. Tu mere sadqe na ja. Mujhe teri koee zaroorat nahi hai. Apna sadqa apne paas hi rakh. Tere kaam ae ga.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:32 #

  7. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @BaliMA: We can establish what is and isn't good for people of this century, but in another! thread. That is off-topic here.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:34 #

  8. BaliMA
    Member

    hariskhan kitnay mazay ki baat haie keh partition saie pehlay ki secret speeches zahid hamid ko mil gaie aur aab aap jaisay aqalmand un ku hum taq puncha rehay hain. Wah bhie wah mazza agiya. Kiya kehnaie baie teray.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:34 #

  9. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @BaliMA: Only you could term speeches given in Universities, those given in large gatherings to be 'secret'.

    (sarcasm) I salute! your wisdom and insight. You are truly great. (/sarcasm)

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:39 #

  10. BaliMA
    Member

    hariskhan tum bhie damgai toor per taliban kaie leader hou.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:40 #

  11. toamin
    member

    zaid hamid is getting very popular in youth, his call for Islam & Shariah is getting widespread support from youth.

    remember 60% of Pak population is youth!

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:43 #

  12. BaliMA
    Member

    zahid hamid is on the payroll of agencies. He was brought out to support Musharaf on tv shows. Now he has been given a new agenda. At the end of the game everyone is going to make there money and some simpletons are going to end up dead with their mothers crying why.
    win win situation for everyone.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Dec 2009 11:45 #

  13. Shock
    Members

    @Salam

    I would love to have Ali Azmat's sharia enforced in Pakistan.

    Quaid-e-Azam negated Secularism is the subject of discussion here

    Like to discuss Ali Azmat's Sharia, than feel free to open up a thread on this topic.

    Posted 2 years ago on 29 Dec 2009 6:50 #

  14. Beenai
    Moderator

    Zaid Hamid seems like a mysterious person.
    and i hardly believes ,what he says .

    anyways ,as far as Quaid e Azam is concerned .
    i think ,he wanna develop some kinda balance between rationalism and emotional bondings with religion.
    and he would have found out ,if life has given him some more time .

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 8:27 #

  15. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    @Beena

    Is 'rationalism' a political philosophy ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 10:02 #

  16. toamin
    member

    What he wanted was implemented in his 13 month rule, that record of governance is available for study.

    If Jinnah had died before creation of Pakistan, people can speculate what he had in mind or what he had planned, but he was not only present during partition but also lead the newly created country for 13 months and then Liaqat Ali continued with same understanding, what was all that about?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 10:24 #

  17. Red-Scorpion
    Blocked

    "You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State."

    "Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State. "

    http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/constituent_address_11aug1947.html

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 12:30 #

  18. Beenai
    Moderator

    @Redscorpion,
    the most twisted quote ever .
    Quaid e Azam 's above mention quote...

    in my very own view its about ;
    "freedom of religion for ppl who are other then Muslims in a Muslim state ...."

    non-muslims were afraid due to the mass killings of humans ..u know

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Dec 2009 13:40 #

  19. raheb
    Member

    Freedom of religion (a private faith) is garanteed in a Islamic State. Here lies the distinction between a religion and a Deen (a system)which make people suspicious. Islam is a DEEN a system carrying some percentage of private faith, but generally asystem like any other system. It is not meaning from Quiad, Islam istself allows freedom of religion (a faith).
    It is exactly as if you live in europe or america, you are free to carry your religion. You can built your mosques or temples and pray as you want, BUT you are not allowed to involve in country's political system. As soon as you try to impose or threat countries system, you become a threat for society and country.
    Islam is a SYSTEM which Quaid is pointing towards, that you can keep your personal faith and live ina Islamic system, BUT constitution will be Islamic and everyone living under it should follow it, exactly as we who live in other countries do.
    So it is NOT complicated as people have made it.

    raheb

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Dec 2009 20:46 #

  20. Shock
    Members

    @Rehab

    It is actually complicated for someone who doesn't follow religion as strictly, or doesn't want to follow it. When you say it is no different from living like in any other country, then I am sorry you are wrong. You won't be able amend laws in accordance with the needs of the time.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Dec 2009 23:33 #

  21. raheb
    Member

    Shock! you probably havn't understood my meaning!
    Religion as a private faith is own, either to follow or not, state has nothing to do with it. BUT laws of state has to be followed for every one. Which laws are not amend able? There is opening in every law for the adjustment in any coming time.

    raheb

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 1:34 #

  22. toamin
    member

    Right Raheb,

    Let us say this in other words, if we go to a country where laws are secular and majority of people are Christians and if a Muslim lives there, does that force a Muslim into secular?

    Similarly when Islam as a system is applied on the affairs of life it doesn't mean that a christian living in that country will have to become Muslim, NO. This means that when a christian wants to open bank account he has to follow the economic policy coming from Islam, or if he is in society he has to follow laws of govt.

    So Seculars & Atheists do not worry, you will have more rights and protection from Islamic law than the current colonial legacy system provides. You will feel more safe in an Islamic state where rights of minorities are deeply protected as evidenced from History of Islamic State.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 5:09 #

  23. Shock
    Members

    @Salam

    Sorry, you are wrong. If the seculars and athiest have so many rights then they would have adopted such system long ago. I would take that as a joke.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 8:24 #

  24. toamin
    member

    Why would they adopt that system and live as minority while they are ruling at the moment?

    Of course a public revolution will over throw this tiny minority and bring Islamic System, but after change of their status they will have protection.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 8:36 #

  25. Shock
    Members

    @Salam

    Lol.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 9:21 #

  26. toamin
    member

    hass lo meray bhai kay shabb-e-tareek khatum honay ko hay..
    jo zulmat ka bazaar afrangion nay lagaya thaa woh abb khatum honay ko hay..
    khud to nikal gay per abb unki baqiat khatum honay ko hay ...

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 9:27 #

  27. hariskhan
    member

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    INSHALLAH

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Jan 2010 9:56 #

  28. raheb
    Member

    Mr. Shock! you oftenly use words, " WRONG". Let's say I and Salam in this case are *wrong' according to you, then come with argumentation, tell us what 'RIGHT' is for you?

    I understand that your dilemma is not much different than many others, and that is NOT to understand the Islamic system, but some rituals and few more laws, which are often non-islamic. So let's hope you will come with some intellectual arguments in favour of your 'Wrong'. Tell us what Right is? Please

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Jan 2010 0:58 #

  29. Shock
    Members

    @Rehab

    What is wrong with using the word "wrong"? If I see or hear something wrong, then that is what I am going to call it. Secularism is the answer, where you live your own life without any interference from anyone? Decisions and laws are made after careful delibiration, trial and error keeping them updated with the modernity and basic human rights and values.

    If I do something, which may be unislamic, it is me who is going to be answerable to god on the day of judgement, not you.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Jan 2010 1:13 #

  30. raheb
    Member

    Shock! using the word is wrong When you CANNOT come with What is Right. If you do not know what right is then HOW can you say something as Wrong?

    Your try to explain the thing is very innocent and basic, which I derive the meaning that You do not have Good enough arguments. It need more reading and understanding.

    you say; "If I do something, which may be unislamic, it is me who is going to be answerable to god on the day of judgement, not you."

    VERY RIGHT! just that reply shows you DO NOT understand Islamic System, because what you wrote is just Islamic, BUT rest is NOT known by you.

    raheb (Shock! it is Raheb not rehab, thanks)

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Jan 2010 1:33 #

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