Torn between two edges, the people of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa now put up with new feat of ANP.
http://www.express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100919063&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20100422
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Raja Dahir In Muhammad bin Qasim Out
(40 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 12:04 #
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I think he dont even know that Baluch also trace their heritage from Arabs and Africans...
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 12:09 # -
achtung
Memberkissi ko majboor nahee kiya ja sakta keh wo kis ko apna hero samjhay. jo bhi kissi ko apna hero samajhta hy usskay pas usskay liye dalail zaroor hotey hein.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 12:15 # -
skunkk
MemberDair aaye durust aaye!! About time we get rid of Muhammad Bin Qasim, Mahmud Ghaznavi and others from our text books and embrace Daahir, Porus, Ashok and Chandr Gupt, the real sons of soil.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 12:56 # -
Iqbal out, Zardari in! Who agrees?
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 13:36 # -
ali-pk
Member@Mirza Ghalib sahab
you are late in asking, Iqbal is already out!Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 13:41 # -
ali-pk
Memberonly two possibilities, either total destrution and division of Pakistan on ethnic lines or a revolution in which all the filthy ruling class gets brutally slaughtered in our streets.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 13:47 # -
@ali-pak
i would go for the second possibility...
"a revolution in which all the filthy ruling class gets brutally slaughtered in our streets"
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 13:58 # -
ali-pk
Member@RhyMe
in case it's the second as you are wishing, it would be fun!Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 14:11 # -
achtung
Membermolvion aur mullaiyat kee farsooda sooch aur har muamlay mei najaiz mudakhlat kee wajah sey pakistanion kay mindset mein bohat barri tabdeeli waqia ho rahi hy.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 14:32 # -
syedhussain
Memberi am just wondering , if the same word comes out from an MQM person, all of us would be bashing the whole ethnic group for being a traitor and hindu agents. but since this a**ho** is pakhtoon and hence the son of soil, most of the masses would ignore him and his party anti pakistani stance. just a week ago the same guy said on a tv program that all the founders of pakistan/muslim league were alcoholic so why we should respect them.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 14:37 # -
ali-pk
Member@achtung
tabdili waqia ho nahi rahi balkay ho chuki hai, Ab sirf waqt ka intezar hai aur phir maza hi maza~ i'm dieing to see the fun!Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 14:47 # -
He alludes to alleged claims that Jinnah used alcohol and pork. Soon it'll be Gandhi in and Jinnah out. They speak of son of soils while they quote Ahmed Shah Abdali, a foreign invader, " ..Pakhtunkhwa as the land of the Pashtoons or Pakhtuns." So much for Dahir allegory.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 14:51 # -
"Gandhi in and Jinnah out" was super funny. The best historical turnabout so far. At least the former stayed away from meat. About alcohol, it's anyone's guess now.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 15:18 # -
Gandhi in and Jinnah out is really funny!
Gandhi belonged to and served the South African apartheid as an NCO before being kicked out of Africa.His threat to fast until death amounts to political blackmail-false as per historical records, to Baba Sahib Ambedkar a convert from a Hindu to a Buddhist. So frustrated he was with Gandhi and his Gandhi giri!
Gandhi's invention of Hari Jan (Hari is a Hindu god and Jan is his public or 'that god's creation') was a bright move to bring in 'untouchables' meaning ACHOOTS, that is non Hindus into a Hindu fold of vote bank that backfired and he died a death as a failed politician. Shot by a disgruntled Hindu Fanatic who was not happy, again by his Gandhi giri!
Mosambi ka ras pe kar jevan nahin tiyaga jata but for Gandhi it was a norm being an expert for political blackmail.
Jinnah never ever attempted the path of deception staying faithful to us till he achieved what he fought for...Pakistan.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 16:33 # -
Mirza sahib, Calm down please, calm down. This was just a silly joke, an exercise in cynicism to illustrate how stupid the whole concept of the original Raja Dahir in, Mohammad bin Qasim out was.
I don't know who here would disagree with you in your contempt for Gandhi. He was despicable. He never touched the hair on the head of a white invader, but cooly sat back and let us be slaughtered in our thousands. And he even got his comeuppance, as you rightly point out, in the shape of assassination. We were also making fun of the accusations being hurled at the Quaid-e-Azam for his bad habits of drinking alcohol and eating, of all things, pork.
Mohammad Ali Jinnah was a towering figure of integrity and courage. We revere him like no other.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 16:57 # -
shriq
MemberMirza sahib,
I agree to a point here that compared to Gandhi QA led an elegant, sober, princelike life!!!
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 16:59 # -
shriq, thanks there. To simplify just let's say perhaps that the Quaid-e-Azam was definitely his own man, whereas Gandhi no less than Nehru were Brit puppets. That's why they are liked by the West. Gandhi is in fact an iconic figure for them, the man who never ever raised a hand in anger to the whiteskins.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:04 # -
Thanks brothers Mirza Sahib and Shriq Bhai Sahib
Our Qaid was known OF/BY his words that matched his deeds; who led a disciplined life. He worked himself to death for us, for Pakistan and Pakistanis.Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:08 # -
shriq
MemberHe died for Pakistan
, no doubt in it!!!!!!!!!!!!Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:21 # -
Moderator Sahib, I think even the most recalcitrant amongst us know this. And our regret at his premature decease is matched only by our admiration for his courage at hiding his pain and suffering for the sake of our homeland. We shall not let him down finally. That is my profound conviction. We shall measure up to the sacrifice he made to give us another chance.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:22 # -
shriq
MemberMG, nice commitment!
:)
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:24 # -
A'ameen....Allah (ST) willing we all will InshaAllah.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:30 # -
Thanks, shrik, thank you very much. Sometimes the moment comes to make such a commitment. We can't just spend our lives saying: Kabhi khud pe kabhi halaat pe rona aaya, can we? As Iqbal once counselled us: "Apni duniya aap paida kar agar zindon main hai".
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:34 # -
Gandhi will be IN only where India is IN.
Jinnah will be IN only where Pakistan is IN.
And Pakistan will be IN where Unity, Faith and Discipline is IN.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:49 # -
toamin
memberSalam All
I'll be back soon -inshAllah :)
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:51 # -
shriq
MemberWassalam
Good to have you back man.
Join soon!
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:52 # -
Indeed, words of wisdom from javedsheikh sahib. Welcome to Salam sahib and repeated thanks to shriq sahib.
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 17:57 # -
toamin
memberThanks Shriq!
Posted 2 years ago on 22 Apr 2010 19:37 # -
History alleges that Dahir had married own sister who later wrote to Hujjaj bin Yousuf to attack Sind.
In flouting the religion effort, perhaps ANP likes to nuture such values in Pakistan.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 9:36 # -
skunkk
MemberYes history alleges that Dahir married his own sister on the advise of certain pundits who predicted his downfall if he did not do so.
However, no where is it written that she or any one else for that matter wrote any letter except the history taught in Pakistan.
Historians agree that the Arabs were waiting for an excuse to attack Sindh once again after their consistent humiliating defeats. Raja Dahir never kidnapped any women and the attack by certain pirates was used as an excuse by Arabs to launch an attack. Also, his sons recovered almost the entire Sindh from Arabs after his death.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 16:11 # -
Sounds like the Arabs of that time were like the Americans of our time.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 18:33 # -
Arabs came to help, thanks to them we are muslim. ANP should be banned, these people just spered hatret. Indians are paying them to make us fight each other. Muhammad Bin Qasim is still the hero, we want to name our children Muhammad not Dhir. Pashtun and all other kind of pakistanis want muslim as there hero.
ANP should teach how these rajas treated there people.Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 19:30 # -
skunkk
Member@ barackobama:
Arabs of that time were indeed like Americans today.
@ rainbow22:
It is not about muslims or hindus, it is about the fact that who was on the right side. The Khalifa sitting in Baghdad had 360 kaneezein in his harem one for each day of the year, so you really think an expedition would be launched for a woman? Please read history as to how Hajaj bin Yousuf treated his subjects and then blame Daahir.
You would still be muslims had Muhammad bin Qasim not come, Pashtuns embraced Islam through the invasions from Afghanistan not Sindh. Also, almost all historians agree that there were many muslims in the army of Raja Dahir, in fact some say that his naib sipah-e-salaar was a Muslim.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 20:29 # -
@skunk
"Also, almost all historians agree that there were many muslims in the army of Raja Dahir, in fact some say that his naib sipah-e-salaar was a Muslim."
Another similarity in today's Muslim soldiers. We have been mercenaries since 712.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 20:57 # -
SufiSoul
MemberThe man of today wants and needs, to be answered some of the questions in mind,
The tradition with every freedom movement brings some hardships for the people and leaders..
They may be pushed behind the bars beaten brutaly and things like that.
When we look into the situation of pre-separation time of INDIA we are Introduced with two scenes,All the hardships,jailings,brutality comes on the congress leadership Part,from british govt..
BUT at Muslim league side you will never find such activity from the rulers...ONLY muslims paid the price for the separation and now paying again the price in their killings from the country to which they were brutaly deprived of their elders...
You feel pain,you get you cloth torn,you find youself dipped into sewerage line,you find your self behind the Bars and other humiliating tactics when ever you go against the wishes of the govt/Rulers.....
ONLY congress leadership paid the price in many shapes from british govt BUT no muslim leadership...
So were they the only one's who were moving against the wishes of the british govt to keep the country united?????
Muslims leadership were used to go to their normal JOBS and EARNINGS without any disturbance/interference from the Govt.So what it shows that our lEADERSHIP recieved Pakistan in PLATE without even a day off from JOBS/Businesses......
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 21:39 # -
History is history and will remain as such. Have a look:
Hiouen-thsang is corroborated by the Harsha-charita of Bana who was not a Buddhist, and by the original author of the Chachnamah, who was an Arab (translated into many languages). We have thus Brahman, Buddhist, Greek, and Arab testimony as to the amicable relations subsisting between the followers of the two religions, upto the 7th century; and the testimony of the Arab, now given to the English-knowing world, for the first time, is, to my mind, of the greatest value.
The Chachnmah further bears out all that has been said by Muir, in his History of the Khalifate, as to the principles followed by Mussalman rulers in the government of conquered nations. One of the most remarkable edicts mentioned in this book is that in which Hajjaj informed Muhammad Qassim that, the subject population were not to be interfered with, in the exercise of their own religion, even if they worshipped stocks and stones. The Muhammadan rulers welcomed converts, but if any person chose to follow his own religion, he had merely to pay the usual poll-tax (Jizia), and, on such payment, was free to follow it. Of course if not seldom happened that this law was not loyally carried out,but Muhammad Qassim at least appears to have been true to it.
The Mahabharata and the ancient Smritis show that, in Hindu times, whatever wars took place, the tillers of the soil, were never injured; and it is pleasing to find that Muhammad Qassim also, in his memorable campaign, made an exception in favour of the peasantry and of artisans. He,moreover, re-employed the Brahman revenue collecting establishment of his Hindu predecessors, and allowed them a liberal percentage of their collections as their remuneration. The Brahman Prime Minister of Dahar was installed as the Prime Minister of Muhammad Qassim, and several Hindu chieftains, whose principalities had been guaranteed to them, became Muhammad Qassim's allies and counsellors.
It is extremely doubtful if Sind could have been conquered at all, had these chiefs remained true to their king, and, curious as it may seem, it was ostensibly astrology that made traitors of them. For they said: “Our wise men have predicted that Sind will come under the sway of Islam. Why then should we battle against Fate.” They thus indulged in that “excellent foppery of the world,” by which “we make guilty of our disasters the sun, the moon and the stars, as if we were villains on necessity, fools by heavenly compulsion, knaves, thieves and treachers by spherical predominance; drunkards, liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of planetary influence; and all that we are evil in, by a divine thrusting on.” The result of course was disastrous.
But though these chiefs were very much to blame, the king himself was undoubtedly a greater sinner. It was he who, by the advice of a credulous minister, solemnised his marriage with his own sister, to prevent the working of a prediction. The marriage was not intended to be consummated, and, as a matter of fact, it was not consummated; but the impious ceremony nevertheless alienated from Dahar not only his brother but all the best and bravest men in the land.
The act was one of crass stupidity, and we have now in Sindhi, thanks to Dahar, a word, Dahiri, which signifies an unmitigated fool. The “juggling fiends” did not even “keep the word of promise” to his ear, and it was a just retribution that the very astrology which made him violate the sacred law, was pleaded by his faithless feudatories as a justification for deserting his cause.
It was, however, not merely the king and his nobles who failed to keep to the strait path of duty: the masses appear also to have degenerated. We have only a few passages in the Chachnamah which gives us a glimpse of the people, but these few record nothing creditable to them. At Debal, a Brahman came forward to betray his countrymen; the Samani of Nirankot, to save his precious head, entered into a private treaty with Hajjaj, and helped the Mussalmans, without the least compunction; and other Samanis persuaded the people to submit, because, forsooth, the religion of Buddha was a religion of peace. We also read of a very large class, I mean the Lohana Jats, labouring under extraordinary disabilities.
General Cunningham has identified the Jats “with the Xanthii of Strabo and the Iatii of Pliny and Ptolemy,” and even fixed their parent country; but whether they came from the Oxus or from Kandahar, or from the steppes of Central Asia, and whether they and the Meds were descended from Ham the son of Noah as Muhammadan historians allege, or were the Jartikas and Madras of the Mahabharata, or the Dasyus of the Rig-Veda whom the Aryas called niggers in their day, it is certain that there were very large numbers of them in Sind, the Panjab, Cutch and Rajputana.
In the 7th century, Sind and the Panjab formed a single kingdom, and the Chachnamah records that, Chach, the great Brahman king, planted deodar and poplar trees on the northern frontiers of his dominions near Kashmere, and that Muhammad Qassim saw those trees and planted some more..
As you may see for your self history cannot be fabricated or falsified specially in the days of Information Technology…come up with something believeable! This is from the famous CHACHNAMAH!
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 22:14 # -
skunkk
MemberIt was not the betrayal by his own nobles which caused the fall of Raja Daahir's failure but the betrayal by Allafi Arab Muslims who held positions throughout the kingdom.
When Arab armies were advancing Raja Daahir asked them to go forward with them. "O Allafi!" Dahar said to his Arab friend, "It was for such an emergency that we patronized you. You are best acquainted with the ways of the Arab army, and it is advisable that you should go with my forces in advance." The Allafi replied, "O King! We are grateful to you, but we cannot draw our swords against the army of Islam. If we are killed by them we will earn a bad name, and if we kill them we will burn in hell. We agree that in return for the favors you have shown us, we must at least give you some advice on how to fight these invaders even if we do not draw our swords against them. But if we give you advice, then again, this army will never forgive us. Please be kind to us and allow us to depart quietly." In a magnanimous gesture of royal grace, Dahar allowed these dubious characters to leave his camps in safety. Sometime before the final battle, Dahar's vizier approached him and suggested that Dahar should take refuge with one of the friendly kings of India. "You should say to them, 'I am a wall between you and the Arab army. If I fall, nothing will stop your destruction at their hands.'" If that wasn't acceptable to Dahar, said the vizier, then he should at least send away his family to some safe point in India. Dahar refused to do either. "I cannot send away my family to security while the families of my thakurs and nobles remain here. And I consider it shameful as well that I should go to the door of another prince and await his permission to see him." Vizier Budhiman then asked Dahar what did he intend to do. To this Dahar gave a very dramatic reply, which was recorded faithfully by the early Arab historians despite their hostility to the unfortunate infidel. "I am going to meet the Arabs in the open battle, and fight them as best as I can. If I crush them, my kingdom will then be put on a firm footing. But if I am killed honorably, the event will be recorded in the books of Arabia and India, and will be talked of by great men. It will be heard by other kings in the world, and it will be said that Rajah Dahar of Sindh sacrificed his precious life for the sake of his country, in fighting with the enemy." After Dahar was killed in the Battle of Aror on the banks of the River Indus, his head was cut off from his body and sent to Hajjaj bin Yousuf. His queens burnt themselves to death in the tradition set by the Rajput heroines. These included Bai, the unfortunate sister of Dahar. Other ladies of the royal household, who remained alive, were captured by the Arab conquerors along with other women of Sindh, and sold into slavery.
Also while the marriage between Raja Daahir and his sister was solemnized it was never consummated.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 23:13 # -
.. and so the way was paved for kinds of Abdullah Shah Ghazi to let the Jats and Rajputs know of Islam.
Posted 2 years ago on 23 Apr 2010 23:33 #
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