PKPolitics Discuss » Video Links
Reality of MMA & ANP
(24 posts)-
Posted 1 year ago on 03 Jun 2010 18:17 #
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Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: Ye (Mr. Zaid Hamid) ape E kuchch nahi kar raha ya keh raha. Army ya us ki agencies is bande ko support kar rahi hain. Ye banda expose kiya ja chuka hai.
Army has held power in Pakistan since Pakistan was created. Yet, they have failed in bringing betterment in the lives of people of Pakistan to-date.
If they would work for betterment of people of Pakistan, if they would use power while remaining within Islam's given bounds, as per Islam's given standards, I would have no problems with that. Yet their conduct for the last 64 years, as well as that which they are continuing with proves otherwise.
Army ke bande (Zaid Hamid) se MMA ke bare main sawal karte ho ? un loago'n ke bare main jo ALLAH se, Musalmano'n se loyal hain ?
- Army ka wo banda jise insaf se koee lagao nahi ?
- Jo kehta hai ke Army ke ilava har aik ka ehtasab karo ?
- Jo kehta hai ke Musalmano'n ka Khaleeefa us bande ko hona chahiye jo paise wala ho ? (which is not! the teaching of Islam)Jaan! de yaar. Mazaq na kar. Hansi ati hai.
Posted 1 year ago on 03 Jun 2010 19:12 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: Remember the following;
(1) Currently, Pakistan Army as it is, its higher ups believe in secularism
Secularism is the belief of those who support as well as work for Mr. Dajjal (AntiChrist) i.e., Zionists/Unjust Jews.
Islam and secularism are at odds. For decades Pak Army higher ups have tried to implement or spread secularism among Pakistan. Muslims of Pakistan, people! of Pakistan have rejected it, over and over again.
(2) If you look at Pak Army, how they train or groom new-incumbents, if you look at their code of conduct, you will note that it does not! conform to Islam or its standards. It conforms to British Colonial era standards.
Go through Army higher ups, you will note this for yourself.
If Pak Army believed in Islam or Islam's given standards, its higher ups or decision makers would have never;
(a) seized power in Pakistan for benefiting personally, rather than for working for betterment of people of Pakistan
(b) broken law of the land, behind the curtain for decades!, by;
(b1) manipulating elections
(b2) manipulating law of the land
(b3) manipulating justice system
(b4) manipulating state institutions
(b5) etc etc(c) keep people of Pakistan away from those who they want to choose as their leaders for decades
They continue to do this even now.
(d) benefited personally at the expense of people of Pakistan's tax money
(e) turned Army into a feudal lord
(f) turned Army into a land mafia
(g) taken decisions against the will of Quran i.e., help USA / Nato against Muslims of Afghanistan
They would have confronted USA/Nato, or conducted 'mashwara' with 'shura' of Ulamaa, those who understand local, regional, geo-political Scenario before confronting them.
That is what 'shura' is for i.e., for making intelligent, educated decisions.
(h) eaten money from USA/Nato
When Army higher ups take this money, they turn Pak Army into debt slaves of USA / Nato. That means, Pak Army has been made a paid slave, a paid worker, a paid fighting force for USA / Nato.
Army or its higher ups cannot complain they have to do it, no matter what reason they give. They have brought it upon themselves through their own actions, their own decisions. They did have the option to make better decisions. They still! have that option. They are not making the right decisions, because they hate to loose everything they'v amassed illegally over the decades i.e., power, money, land, etc etc.
(i) feared death while defending or fighting for this nation, its people or while conducting Jihad
If Army of Pakistan, was conducting itself as Army of Pakistan, as Army of Muslims, as Army of Islam, you would see them dying in war with USA / Nato. You would note them confronting USA/Nato.
You would see them increasing awareness level in general public in Pakistan about reality, about what is going on inside as well as outside Pakistan.
You wouldn't see them give up in-front of USA/Nato or their military might as Mr. Musharraf did after 9/11.
Army is a force to defend people of a country, not a force to loot and plunder the nation, its money, its land, its people's future.
NO!, that's not Army of Muslims. That's the Army which has been groomed on British Colonial standards.
You don't accept word of such people against those who are loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY, to Muslims.
Posted 1 year ago on 03 Jun 2010 19:28 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
MULLAH is the guy;
(1) who will do justice among Muslims according to Islam's standards
(2) who is trusted to not steal money of people
(3) majority of people of Pakistan trust with their;(a) lives
(b) money
(c) day-to-day affairs of life
(d) well-being
(e) protection of their interests(4) from whom they take guidance for their day-to-day affairs of personal life, their business affairs, etc etc
(5) who sets the standards among Muslims
MULLAH is the guy who holds responsibility among Muslims.
There is no way you can prove them to be disloyal to people of Pakistan, especially Muslims.
Posted 1 year ago on 03 Jun 2010 20:19 # -
achtung
Memberharis bhai
plz name a few mullahs (other then in your party JI) who do all this what you stated above.
Posted 1 year ago on 03 Jun 2010 20:55 # -
izzat ma'aab Haris khan sahab,
Zahid hamid's character is not what I wanted to discuss in the thread, If he would criticize me for my evil doings, tau keeray tu main bhi un ke character main nikaal lu gha, and that is what MMA did. For their political benefits they used the religion card against Zaid hamid, although ZH has been denying all those accusations very categorically. And no Muslim has to prove their Iman to other Muslims, so we have to take their word on it, unless their actions state utterly otherwise, which is certainly not the case with Zaid Hamid.
And you say ZH is army's man. What evidence is there to prove that? Just because he doesn't condone the killings of Army men by terrorist organizations like TTP, doesn't mean he is a mouth-piece of Army. Are afghan taliban also army's men, that they don't attack army or even condone that, and that they sent their men to stop scums like TTP to attack the army, because that was effecting their resistance in Afghanistan in a very negative manner.
And regarding the charge sheet you've laid out against army, wasn't all these characteristics present in the army when MMA was in coalition with it for years? I've been very critical of army's role in Pakistan, but kiyani has certainly helped clear the air. Musharaf got us into this mess, and now kiyani has to deal with it, and he has been doing his job very well till today.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 6:15 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberThe thing which is very controversial about the Mullahs is that in normal life routine they boost sectarianism among the Muslims, but when their political interests match with each other then they develop unity. Why can't they promote brotherhood among the Muslims besides their politics.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 6:20 # -
Well! I certainly do not subscribe to Mullah haters club, and I do think that the Ulema in Pakistan have a greater role to play, the role they played in the creation of Pakistan is applausable and their role now in saving Pakistan is very much needed.
And that is why, you'd see majority of Ulemas in Pakistan, condemn the terrorism by both sides, from america, and as well as from organizations such as TTP. And you'd also see majority of Ulema's support our army.
But I do not expect much from the Ulema who were against the creation of Pakistan.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 6:28 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberUmeR Bhai
The politicians and the Ulemas who created Pakistan were very different from the politicians and ulemas of the present day. Mualana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani and Maulana Suleman Nadvi were very great people. They wer not like Fazal Ur Rehman or Qazi Hussain Ahemd.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 6:34 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: DEEN is not a 'card' that is (ab)used. We do not! 'use' DEEN as a 'card'. Politics is part of DEEN. We excersize DEEN when we do politics / power politics.
This card business is nonsense. You need to learn as well as understand what DEEN teaches us.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 9:30 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: Kiyani is not doing it well. Your standard of 'well' is too low.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 9:34 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: MMA was not! in coalition with Army when it was in power.
That is an unjustified notion.
In-fact MMA struggled against Army dictatorship all throughout their years. Let me give you one example of that struggle;
(1) Pak Army wanted to send Pak Army's men to Iraq, to fight USA's war there. It was MMA who organized people of Pakistan for protests to stop them from doing it
Did any other group of people or part of Pakistan do anything about it, at the time ? ALL of the rest of Pakistan was dead, was dead silent. I believe that included you.
I can quote many more examples if you want more.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 9:36 # -
@ haris
"DEEN is not a 'card' that is (ab)used."
When people (like Fazl-ur rehman) use DEEN for their personal gains, then it is just another card for them, which they do not think twice before using.
"In-fact MMA struggled against Army dictatorship"
oh right... jab Hissa nahi mila, tab hissab maang-nay nikal paray.
Anyway, In the video I posted, I don't think ZH said anything wrong, he just stated bare facts. And if you think otherwise, bring your proof.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 14:50 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I have already posted facts. You have to acknowledge them, rather than continuing to be stubborn.
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I do understand the point about Mr. Fazl-ur-Rahman. I have already answered this question over and over again.
Mr. Fazl-ur-Rahman is not one man. He has a following in one province of Pakistan. Pakistan's justice system needs to be improved to deal with him and people like him, automatically.
Mr. Fazl-ur-Rahman or many people like him can be brought to justice, if people of Pakistan want as well as struggle for 'justice'. Not otherwise.
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In this video, Mr. ZH didn't blame JI.
What he said about MMA is also wrong. The reality is, those who ran Govt. of Pakistan;
(1) maintained criminal negligence of people of that region for decades
(2) committed mass scale injustice against them over decades
(3) didn't provide a system
(4) didn't provide for speedy dissemination of justice
(5) kept people of FATA under FCR (one of the worst examples of laws that can be made)
(6) unjustly forced citizens of Pakistan of that region to live under worse circumstances, which made them vulnerable to foreign exploitation
(7) conveniently accepted drone strikes, military operations against these same people
(8) colluded with foreign entities/powers against their own citizensWe the people have got to support imparting of FAST! justice which obeys Islam's standards. That will help us avoid situations like these where people of the state are forced to live in such conditions that they become vulnerable to be used against the state.
Secondly, military operations, as you are continuing to watch is not the solution to problems, to conflicts.
I gave example of England/UK vs. Irish. How they solved the same problem within themselves.
You are blinded from that which is right in-front of you by your hate, which is nonsense.
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Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 15:02 # -
ZH in the video said:
-Afghan Mujahideen are not involved in terrorism in Pakistan
-CIA/RAW sponsored talibans (TTP) are behind these acts of terrorism
- MMA's government did nothing to stop the weaponisation of SWAT by TTP
- And MMA's govt didn't even let Army do operation against them.So In short, ZH is not against Afghan resistance, but he is against the CIA/RAW sponsored factions of taliban who are carrying out terrorist activities in Pakistan, and whom MMA's government supported, maybe because of their stupidity or maybe because they share the hatred of TTP against PAKISTAN.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 16:24 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Yaar.. :@ :|. hmm.. How can I put my message, so you'll be able to gulp it ? Ok, here's another try;
(1) MMA's Govt. stopped military operations. Yes. In-fact ALL ministers in MMA's cabinet resigned in protest against these military operations.
(2) Do you understand how TTP came into being ?
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 16:49 # -
SufiSoul
Member@Umer,
every one can play their role,is allowed to play from the POWERS in Pakistan..
MMA was including all th religious leaders of pakistan.Previously leader like Shah Ahmad Noorani was joined hands with the others to form MMA..How its possible that all these were currupts religious leaders????
Propaganda is their and religious leaders want and play their role always as a bridge between society and religion..
If religious leaders were not killing the Taliban and are thinking of Taliban as well wishers of pakistan than they have every right to differ with rest of the common people..
This is not neccessary what the govt is saying is correct and needs to be trusted all the way........Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 17:33 # -
LiberalKarachi
MemberIt's people like Zaid Hamid who exemplify much of what is wrong with Pakistan. Who the heck is Zaid hamid to label ANP as anti-Pakistan? I dont like ANP but simply dubbing them as anti-Pakistan/anti-Islam just shows his chauvinism and very bellicose personality. Even more fanatical is his labelling of JI as pro-Pakistan party! I dont think that even ANP's leaders called Quaid-e-Azam Kafir-e-azam, unlike his holy Maudoodi sahab, founder of JI.
Also, its only in Pakistan that Zaid Hamid can pass for a "senior analyst", in other countries, people like him are often known as "seriously deluded".
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 21:37 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@LiberalKarachi: ANP has a past as well as a present, which you can't deny. Both show their insistence on committing treason with Muslims.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 21:44 # -
LiberalKarachi
Member@hariskhan,
I am very well aware of the past and present of ANP. What I said was in spite of this knowledge. None of that gives sufficient ground to say that ANP is anti-Pakistan/anti-muslims, certainly even less so than JI.
If on those grounds we are labelling ANP as anti-Pakistan than that must apply across the board. We all know what Sikandar Hayat thought of Pakistan too, as well as the leaders of JI.
We must give up the habit of giving certificates of treason or hell fire, unless we can unambigiously judge the contents of the heart.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 21:50 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@LiberalKarachi: That rule does! apply across the board.
JI does not get affected by it, because they have never! committed treason against Muslims. JI was created to protect, to preserve interests of Muslims.
There's no way you can excuse ANP for what they have done in the past as well as that which they are doing against people of Pakistan right now.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 21:58 # -
LiberalKarachi
Member@hariskhan,
it seems that you use the word "Pakistan" and "muslims" interchangeably. Do not conflate these two very different things!
First of all, we were discussing JI and ANP w.r.t. being anti/pro Pakistan and not anti/pro Muslim/Islam, as per Zaid hamid's comment. We can also discuss anti/pro Muslim/Islam and JI and ANP in another thread, but let's not divert this thread.
I still await to see your rigorous reasoning which renders ANP as anti-Pakistan but excuses JI leaders, Sikandar Hayat and other leaders.
Posted 1 year ago on 04 Jun 2010 22:18 # -
biladulamin
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 11:03 # -
@biladulamin
Same content in various threads is spamming. Pls refrain from spamming.
ThanksPosted 1 year ago on 12 Oct 2010 15:49 #
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