achtung
Member
i also support operation against TTP because they illegally occupy pakistan land with help of foreign terrorist and want to occupy all pakistan.
peace talk with them not possible because they are many different groups. also because they not have consensus leadership. they are also not trustworthy.
Hariskahan says:
TTP is pushed against wall;
What is that wall?
You kill people and if somebody challenges you--- you say; you are being pushed against the wall....What an absurdity?
Well; I can understand that when we had a dictatorship in the country. Although in NWFP, there was MMA government but this can be said that probably people from FATA or the northern Pakistan were not having their right say in the affairs.
Rightly and wrongly Mushi’s government was also being blamed for his submitting to American on simple dire warning/ threat given by US.
But now; we have in Pakistan; a duly elected, a full democratic government and we had very much elected members from FATA as well as Northern area they are sitting in provincial as well as in National assembly. Rather in NWFP now called PK have got a pakhtoon’s ANP government and there are many more ministers from this area ---- right across the board.
If TTP and their cohorts were that concerned about the welfare of their people and the area; they could have got elected and now be sitting in assemblies bringing in the entire good for their peoples the way they desired.
But Alas; poor TTP is helpless here... they are rather tied up and bound by the deal they have done with the enemy of Pakistan. All the money they have eaten up and are expected to receive more for their covert operation services; sadly that tends them to carry out all such atrocities that we see in Pakistan.
Mercerise are the most cowards; they dare not come out of the deal which ties them up with the money.
These stooges will go out and do anything for the money; even if they have to sell or kill their own kith and kin but to show their loyalty to their pay masters.
achtung
Member
they should be pushed over the wall
gv
Member
@achtung
i think the key thing is to identify why people support or hate the taliban/militants... i.e. the two basic opposing groups that we even see battling out their points of view here...
One key point to consider is one that shimatoree made recently - that it is foolish to blame or hate tribesmen for their actions when these tribesmen have little or no education and a very limited/parochial outlook towards the world/their neighbours.... i.e. why blame them for the way they are as they know no better...
By my understanding most educated/middle class people support the taliban/militants in the hope that they will deliver them from the corrupt politicians that we are subjected to now...
These supporters turn a blind eye to their harsh excesses in the name of islam hoping that if they do come to power they will eventually usher in a more enlightened/just governing system based on the 'true' islam.
The ones who oppose the taliban are a varied lot... mostly people who are fearful of living in a potentially harsh and repressive society which enforces a rigid and puritanical morality on the public.. in my opinion this is the majority view...
In the minority camp you have establishment types with a vested interest who fear a loss of power along with a few 'west lovers' (as our friends nota and shimatoree like to call them) who see the militants as the antithesis of the western society that they wish to emulate here in Pakistan.
shirazi
Member
قاصد کے آتے آتے خط اک اور لکھ رکھوں
میں جانتا ہوں جو وہ لکھیں گے جواب میں
Haris bahi will have simple reply since justice is not served at ground level they have right to pick up the arms.
gv, a fair enough analysis of the situation. Except that you completely left out the matter of manipulation by foreign powers. Scroll up this thread and you'll see this point being made somewhere and Hariskhan himself recongising the fact that the so-called Tali have been disowned by the original Tali Mullah Omar.
Our tribesman do not necessarily know what they are doing themselves. Their leaders might. They themselves perhaps not. And if we could go a bit easy on all that patronising stuff about the educated and the non-educated, etc., please. Will the middle-classes never learn to take themselves a bit less seriously?
Equating TTP with IRA of UK
Oh; now you are gasping for some oxygen which may relieve you and grant you a life.... and you now look outside to bring in some examples; i.e. how UK has done with IRA.
This is nonsense to equate our case of TTP treachery with IRA of Northern Ireland. No sane person can say the IRA were the traitors or the mercenaries. IRA was fighting for their piece of land which happens to be under UK control.
They kept on fighting for a long time; most of the time they were fighting the UK military and police; till a sense prevailed and they renounced violence; laid down their arms and then were given due places in their elected assembly.
You may say anything; but can’t call IRA members; traitors or the mercenaries paid to find the soft targets and killing innocents.... like the TTP cowards; they do.
TTP call themselves Taliban which is the subject of Afghanistan only----but that will be the day; when I will find that today; TTP has carried out an attack/raid in Afghanistan against enemy targets and subdued so many enemy soldiers...
They simply can’t do that: they could only play here in the most unfortunate country which feeds them and also provide shelters to their families free of cost.
TTP are like Jao-lahia of rural area. Cowardice is their trait. So they say: Jaolahay diyaan mushkarian mann; bhen dey nall.
{It shows only the cowardice of male weavers in the villages that they could only have their (love affairs) dating chit-chat with their own mothers and sisters.}
gv
Member
@mg
im not trying to be patronising..... i find it frustrating that people who have a common cause (i.e. the privileged educated middle class) keep bickering amongst each other...
shirazi
Member
@gv
I am not sure who are the most educated/middle class that supports Taliban? Right leaning conservatives like HK, nota, shimatoree, MG etc oppose present political and establishment forces and American influence on those but I am not sure if any of them supports Taliban/alqaeda as alternative.
OK, gv, so long as you know this is the worst class of all. I'd even take the wealth elite over them, if that was the only choice I had in the matter.
shirazi, you're right as far as I'm concerned, since you've done me the honour of adding me to the class I most love to hate. I'm certainly against all this indiscriminate killing going on in our poor country for the past several years, by whom exactly yet remains to be seen. I still suspect Blackwater of being behind many of the tragic deaths. And if it's the "Tali" responsible, they are no less to be condemned.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@gv: You are ignoring hard facts.
..and you are blowing this matter out of proportion. This is usual discourse for those who subscribe to 'secularism'. They usually base their discourse on 'idle speculation', on their 'fears'. Which in many cases, has nothing to do with reality.
If you spread dishonest intellectual discourse, if you go down this path, you will be digging up a hole for yourself.
I expect you to get sane, to get just with the passage of time, not in!-sane, not unjust.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Aay Khokhar: Dude, you don't even have the decency, you aren't even man enough to carry on a 'civilized' discussion. You ignore questions, topics, facts, evidence critical to the topic at hand, as per your whims.
You don't care about justice, about upholding the best of standards. You only care for 'satisfying' your 'own' 'whims'. That means, your an 'opportunist'. That means you 'randomly' choose to be 'just' or 'unjust'.
I am done with you. Either you carry on civilized discussions, or don't bother me.
Dear GV
Like all the Paktun; TTP lords are well travelled people...
Sindhis or people from southern Punjab or east-southern Baluchistan may be called the people who normally do not travel much out of the confines of their local areas; but on the other hand Pashtun are the people who can be called well travelled people.
They have even the upper hand over all others, having a free access to Afghanistan in the north and their trade affiliation even with India via Afghanistan.
They are also well versed with all the geo political situ of the region because they are at receiving end and may not be right to call them some illiterate, ignorant lot; or the people with parochial outlook.
Yes; like the mice they may not resists the cheese and are the one who get easily loured in--- on any under hand mercenaries like confidential business offers which brings them easy money. They are also good at securing their dens of business by secluding them and spreading of waves of fear and terror around them; which proves to be a good form of defence for them to play around freely.
Up keep of FATA status is one example and TTP which is enjoying all the pleasantry of minting huge sums on account of acting as mercenaries for our enemies and is also vehemently resisting and restricting the government organs to establish their writ in their areas of influence.
That is why; the business of narcotics, arms smuggling and all other under hand business are seen secured and flourishing in the dens where the glitter of dollars is seen all round the places.
Harris Khan,
You have tried to bop all the ammo of your vocabulary on me but you know that I am simply talking of TTP which has officially been declared enemy number one of Pakistan and our armed forces are all out deployed to evict this evil out which is clinging like parasite and depleting us internally.
You may be the one who is seen louvered in by their pep talk but I don’t suppose that a methodical man like you is also an organ of TTP.
Regards
gv
Member
@mg
Please put your bleeding heart lefty socialism aside for just a second and try and see what i am getting at. By middle/educated classes I mean all of us here on this blog with our fancy college educations and internet saviness and fluency in english....let's at least be honest about your own place on society....and let's accept that the majority of the population is nowhere as privileged as we are...
@hk
I have no idea what you're on about.
@shirazi
I know enough people on this site and elsewhere who are sympathetic towards islamic militancy in pakistan Also I may not be 'right leaning conservative but I also oppose " present political and establishment forces and American influence on those" as do most other memmbers on this site who may belong to either the right or the left of the political spectrum....
ammarisb
Member
These videos shows another facet of Taliban, where they attempt to glorify violence by showing rugged militants off-roading and the blatant use of ammunition. They are attempted to lure the disgruntled youth towards violence. It is important this vulnerable segment of society does not fall prey to the onslaught of Taliban.
gv
Member
@ak
By my understanding; most people join the militants because in an environment where very little scope for economic growth is possible, the militants provide them with a salary better than most, and also provide them with a prestige factor...
If you provide people with good governance, a legal system that works and jobs im sure they would also much rather be sitting on a desk blogging on this site as opposed to blowing other people up or cutting off heads with blunt carving knives..
gv, I wrote a reply to your above to me. Tried to post it and the PC shut down. Just this: hate neither fish nor fowl socialism.
Sorry for sidetracking the discussion.
Abdul Rahman
Member
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_pakistan
Attacks by war criminals continue unabated. Drones kill fasting Muslims today. Why no coverage for this massacre in the mainstream Pakistani media and blog?
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