PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

RIM(Blackberry) to defend the legal privacy rights of Blackberry Users

(33 posts)

  1. arif786
    Member

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/316368/blackberry-maker-vows-privacy-safeguard-amid-memo-probe/

    OTTAWA: Research In Motion vowed Tuesday to defend the legal privacy rights of BlackBerry users after a judicial commission in Pakistan ordered copies of smartphone communications in the Memogate scandal probe.

    The Canadian firm reacted to news that a Pakistani commission was seeking records for a probe into an unsigned memo purported to ask for Washington’s help to rein in Pakistan’s military.

    The highly controversial memo was allegedly an attempt by a close aide of President Asif Ali Zardari to enlist the US military’s help to head off a military coup in May in Pakistan.

    It was made public in October by Pakistani-American businessman Mansoor Ijaz.

    On Monday, the commission directed Pakistan government officials to obtain the BlackBerry “record of conversation” between Ijaz and a former envoy to the US accused of crafting the memo, Husain Haqqani.

    Haqqani resigned over the affair and the Supreme Court has stopped him from leaving Pakistan. He has denied any involvement in the scandal.

    Canada-based RIM, which makes the BlackBerry, said, “Like others in our industry, from time to time, we may receive requests from legal authorities for lawful access assistance.”

    The company statement added: “We are guided by appropriate legal processes and publicly disclosed lawful access principles in this regard as we balance any such requests against our priority of maintaining the privacy rights of our users.”

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 7:01 #

  2. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    “Like others in our industry, from time to time, we may receive requests from legal authorities for lawful access assistance.”

    There is a precedence when last year UAE authorities forced RIM to share or disclose some of the private data to the local operators. The tussle went on until the UAE government blocked all BB services in the country and RIM had to give into some of the demands of the UAE authorities.

    I think we can take a leaf out of that example.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 7:14 #

  3. siddiqi73
    Member

    @Sulaiman,

    That was UAE government! You seriously think that this chor government which is itself involved in the memogate would want RIM to disclose such incriminating information?

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 7:15 #

  4. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    Not at all yaar!!

    But I was refuting the impression in that news article that it could not be possible from RIM side.

    It is doable if you have the will to do it as like UAE authorities but given the current thugs who are fully involved in this matter it is highly unlikely they would do so.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 7:28 #

  5. d0ct0r
    Member


    Memogate: BlackBerry data may be provided, says company

    OTTAWA: Research In Motion (RIM), the manufacturers of BlackBerry devices, said access to data may be given for court's assistance, Geo News reported.

    The RIM vowed to defend the legal privacy rights of BlackBerry users after a judicial commission in Pakistan ordered copies of smartphone communications in a scandal probe.

    Canada-based RIM, which makes the BlackBerry, said, "Like others in our industry, from time to time, we may receive requests from legal authorities for lawful access assistance."

    The company statement added: "We are guided by appropriate legal processes and publicly disclosed lawful access principles in this regard as we balance any such requests against our priority of maintaining the privacy rights of our users."

    The Canadian firm reacted to news that a Pakistani commission was seeking records for a probe into an unsigned memo purported to ask for Washington's help to rein in Pakistan's military.

    On Monday, the commission directed Pakistan government officials to obtain the BlackBerry "record of conversation" between Ijaz and a former envoy to the US accused of crafting the memo, Husain Haqqani.
    http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=29947

    http://www.thenewstribe.com/2012/01/04/memogate-black-berry-company-says-data-may-be-provided/

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 7:59 #

  6. arif786
    Member

    There are instances in India, Saudi Arabia, and UAE ... Pakistan has no legal standing because neither MI nor HH blackberry is registered in Pakistan ....

    Even if the request has to be considered it has to come from the service provider/providers with whom these Blackberries are registered...RIM will have a battle ahead and even those service providers and consumers registered wont allow it...

    It is not our data, we dont have any jurisdiction even if it is about Pakistan...

    When Etisalat issues with RIM were resolved, there was a tradeoff between RIM and Etisalat and data belonging to Blackberries registered with them was to be made accessible after a long drawn battle that stretched from 2007 to Oct 2010 ... after threat and counter threats and suspension of services from Etisalat ....Etisalat tried to installed illegal software patches to intercept and modify information and so on...do we have that much time available

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:13 #

  7. arif786
    Member

    @doctor ....geo has got spin doctors to twist every story to their liking... they dont have real doctors like u .... :)

    why dont u read statement which was released by AFP

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:16 #

  8. Bawa
    Member

    اس کیس میں کینیڈا کا ایک شہری بھی فریق ہے جو اس بنا کر کینیڈین کورٹ میں ڈیٹا مہیا کرنے کی استدعا کر سکتا ہے کہ اسکی پاکستان میں موجود فیملی کی سلامتی کو خطرہ لا حق ہے اس لیے بلیک بیری سے کہا جائے کہ وہ پاکستان کو ڈیٹا فراہم کرے

    اسکی مزید تفصیل آپ کل کے نجم سیٹھی کے پروگرام آپس کی بات میں دیکھ سکتے ہیں

    http://pkpolitics.com/2012/01/03/aapas-ki-baat-3-january-2012/

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:20 #

  9. arif786
    Member

    @sid73 ... do u know how long this issue between etisalat and RIM went on ... 3 years ...it will be long battle ... it is not about RIM alone...would involve the service providers with whom these bb's are registered... it is RIM obligation to those service provider...

    Tomorrow authoritarian regimes in Burma, China, Libya, Russia, Egypt would want access to information on the pretext of their national security to undermine human rights of ppl with opposing ideologies and agendas ... this is not about one individual...it is a far greater privacy human rights issue for them ... unless UN approves such supervision they will not and should not budge

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:22 #

  10. arif786
    Member

    Can anyone help what can i install to read urdu comments from this discussion forum .. thnks in advance .. :)

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:25 #

  11. Bawa
    Member

    @ arif786

    You do not need to install anything to read Urdu comments. However you need to use this link to write comments in Urdu.

    Here is the link

    http://www.google.com/transliterate/indic/Urdu

    Another link

    http://www.google.com/transliterate/Urdu

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:27 #

  12. arif786
    Member

    they(military establishement) should bring one petitioner from USA where HH blackberry most probably registered and one and Monaco or US in case of MI ...i think this is where his permanent residence is...

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:28 #

  13. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    Bawa, I think you have a very valid argument. This Canadian citizen can ask the Canadian government through the courts to compell RIM in this case.

    Also Mansoor Ijaz being an American citizen can also exert his influence on US/Canada authorities in asking RIM to comply with the Pakistani court orders since he's the one who has presented all these BBM conversations in the media.

    After all the court only wants to authenticate the BBM data from RIM that is already in the public domain, So I guess the privacy issue will not be a big concern for RIM in this case.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:29 #

  14. Bawa
    Member

    ان سب کی بجائے ایک کینیڈین شہری ہی کافی ہے

    اور کورٹ اسے فریق بنا چکی ہے

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:31 #

  15. Bawa
    Member

    سب سے پہلی بات تو یہ ہے کہ جب دونوں فریق (حسین حقانی اور اعجاز منصور) خود یہ استدعا کریں گے تو بلک بیری کمپنی کو کوئی اعتراض نہیں ہوگا

    اگر حسین حقانی یہ استدعا نہیں کرتا تو اسکا مطلب یہ ہوگا کہ وہ جھوٹا ہے اور حقایق چھپانے کی کوشش کر رہا ہے

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:33 #

  16. siddiqi73
    Member

    Brother Arif,

    Its not just the authoritarian regimes but democratic dispensations which also tend to put a regime of surveillance checks on BB traffic. Please read:

    http://gearburn.com/2011/10/india-to-monitor-blackberry-communications/

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:37 #

  17. arif786
    Member

    @bawa

    it is not their data anymore(MI and HH)...they will have to go through their service provider...

    this is the exact excerpt from BB end user agreement

    quote

    To be able to serve you, your personal information may be collected, stored and/or processed or otherwise used by or on our behalf both inside and outside of Canada by third party service providers or by companies in the RIM corporate family, to perform functions on our behalf. As a result, that country's courts, governments or law enforcement agencies could obtain disclosure of such information under that country's laws.

    unquote

    clearly mentions that countries courts which means the countries where the BB's and service providers are registered ...RIM has to be abide by their contractual agreement with service/airtime providers

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:43 #

  18. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    Another valid point Bawa!

    The court can ask both Mansoor Ijaz and Haqqani to give their consent to RIM in authenticating the alleged BBM data presented by MI and in case if HH hesitates then he can be further reprimanded by the supreme court.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:43 #

  19. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    arif,

    If both parties invlolved in the dispute give their consent to RIM then I dont think RIM would have any objection in complying. What do you think?

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:46 #

  20. arif786
    Member

    sid73

    I had already mentioned in my last comment India has a BBM server on its soil ... even US UK and Canada ... it is when this info is expoloited by authoritarian regimes where individual human rights are not safeguarded under constitution

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:49 #

  21. Bawa
    Member

    @ arif786

    لیکن یہ ڈیٹا ہے تو انکے بلیک بیری کا ہی

    اور کسٹمرز کمپنی سے اپنا ڈیٹا حاصل کر سکتے ہیں

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:51 #

  22. arif786
    Member

    @SD legally impossible..

    there are two more parties in this chain .... service providers, and the courts in these countries have to give consent too ... it will be a tedious legal battle

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:52 #

  23. Bawa
    Member

    @ Sulaiman Dar

    آپکی بات درست ہے

    یہ دیتا کورٹ کے کہنے پر نہیں بلکہ حسین حقانی اور اعجاز منصور کی استدعا کر ملے گا

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:53 #

  24. arif786
    Member

    @bawa..i value ur comments...any chance u can write them in english..my system is playing up...pretty plzzzz :)

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:54 #

  25. Bawa
    Member

    اگر حقانی یا اعجاز منصور کوئی ایسا بلیک بیری استعمال کر رہے ہوں جو انکے نام رجسٹرڈ ہی نہیں

    تو کیا صورتحال ہوگی؟

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 8:56 #

  26. Sulaiman Dar
    Member

    there are two more parties in this chain .... service providers, and the courts in these countries have to give consent too ... it will be a tedious legal battle

    I think the court will most probably ask both MI and HH to give their consent to their respective service providers as well as to RIM. So in the end no hurdle will be left behind from the legal point of view.

    Then it would be upto both of these individual whether they will oblige to the court orders or not. I know for sure MI will but do you know HH will??

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:01 #

  27. Bawa
    Member

    @ arif786

    You may try Google Chrome or Mozilla Firefox. Sometimes my internet explorer doesn't show Urdu words properly.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:01 #

  28. Bawa
    Member

    @ Sulaiman Dar

    You're right.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:03 #

  29. arif786
    Member

    @bawa thanks for the help...i can read now

    just in case if HH phone is not registered under his name...then the basis is gone....BUT

    you can still proceed further by retrieving his contact information from RIM or other ppl known to HH come forward and prove that that particular pin belonged to HH at that time....it would become 10 times more complicated

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:08 #

  30. arif786
    Member

    @SD ....not so simple :)) this is a big policy decision ... not as easy ...will have long term future repercussions ...very difficult for them to agree ...

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:12 #

  31. siddiqi73
    Member

    @arif,

    Establishing a digital footprint with BB is not a problem. Besides the BBM contact list, the incoming and outgoing e-mails can also ascertain the identity of the hand held devices owner.

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:14 #

  32. arif786
    Member

    The integrity of BB information is in question too ...BB servers have been hacked after London riots ..and they posted a letter on bb site...and thats when RIM started co-operating with authorities

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:20 #

  33. arif786
    Member

    @sid73 ... for sure ...but then u involve another variable(individual under whose name BB is registered) his/her consent is required too...too many variables...far too convoluted

    Posted 4 months ago on 04 Jan 2012 9:23 #

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