Oh a thought provoking art-tickle in the very British, very public-school newspaper, The Times (perhaps that will curb any criticism on sources before-hand) ;)
One point for 'science' in the science vs religion debate...
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6904867.ece
amin1924
member
When science defines a problem in a certain perspective it indirectly gives birth to rivalry and war.
For example how they defined economy and built system around it resulted in worst wars of human history.
JJ Sahib:
Not sure what you mean by 'how they defined economy'. The article I thought was referring to science as in the pursuit of knowledge of chemistry, physics, biology, medecine and such like.
Economists sit on a fuzzy line between social and pure science.
But I would tend to agree with Mr. Grayling that the ratio of wars and conflict on grounds of religion and pure politics is infinitely more acute than those pertaining to science.
amin1924
member
I guess economics comes under Arts not Science so please excuse my irrelevant post above :-)
Oh no JJ Sahib, not arts. Economics is in a limbo hovering between science when stats are required, then social science when discussing anthropology. Some psychology also enters the equation, reverting back to pure science when further credibility is required.
Migel9
Member
O..
Allah Almighty Said:
"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things? (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"
Here is a good article for you to read. Islamic views..Related to your topic..
THE PROTECTED ROOF.Ozone layer..
In the Qur'an, Allah calls our attention to a very important attribute of the sky:
We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs. (Qur'an, 21:32)
This attribute of the sky has been proved by scientific research carried out in the 20th century: The atmosphere surrounding the Earth serves crucial functions for the continuity of life. While destroying many meteors-big and small-as they approach the Earth, it prevents them from falling to Earth and harming living things.
In addition, the atmosphere filters the light rays coming from space that are harmful to living things. The most striking feature of the atmosphere is that it lets only harmless and useful rays-visible light, near ultraviolet light and radio waves pass through. All of this radiation is vital for life. Near ultraviolet rays, which are only partially let in by the atmosphere, are very important for the photosynthesis of plants and for the survival of all living beings. The majority of the intense ultraviolet rays emitted from the Sun are filtered out by the ozone layer of the atmosphere. Only a limited and essential part of the ultraviolet spectrum reaches the Earth.
The protective function of the atmosphere does not end here. The atmosphere also protects the earth from the freezing cold of the space, which is approximately -270oC.
It is not only the atmosphere that protects the Earth from harmful effects. In addition to the atmosphere, the Van Allen Belt-the layer caused by the magnetic field of the Earth-also serves as a shield against the harmful radiation that threatens our planet. This radiation, which is constantly emitted by the Sun and other stars, is deadly to living things. If the Van Allen belt did not exist, the massive outbursts of energy called solar flares that frequently occur in the Sun would destroy all life on Earth.
The magnetosphere layer, formed by the magnetic field of the Earth, serves as a shield protecting the Earth from celestial bodies, harmful cosmic rays and particles. In the above picture, this magnetosphere layer, which is also named Van Allen Belts, is seen. These belts at thousands of kilometres above the Earth protect the living things on the Earth from the fatal energy that would otherwise reach it from space.
All these scientific findings prove that the world is protected in a very particular way. The important thing is that this protection was made known in the Qur'an in the verse "We made the sky a preserved and protected roof" fourteen centuries ago.
On the importance of the Van Allen Belt, Dr. Hugh Ross says:
In fact, the Earth has the highest density of any of the planets in our Solar System. This large nickel-iron core is responsible for our large magnetic field. This magnetic field produces the Van-Allen radiation shield, which protects the Earth from radiation bombardment. If this shield were not present, life would not be possible on the Earth. The only other rocky planet to have any magnetic field is Mercury-but its field strength is 100 times less than the Earth's. Even Venus, our sister planet, has no magnetic field. The Van-Allen radiation shield is a design unique to the Earth.21
The energy transmitted in just one of these bursts detected in recent years was calculated to be equivalent to 100 billion atomic bombs, each akin to one dropped on Hiroshima at the end of World War II. Fifty-eight hours after the burst, it was observed that the magnetic needles of compasses displayed unusual movement and 250 kilometres above the Earth's atmosphere, the temperature suddenly increased to 2,500oC.
Most people looking at the sky do not think about the protective aspect of the atmosphere. They almost never think what kind of a place the world would be like if this structure did not exist. The above photo belongs to a giant crater caused by a meteor that fell in Arizona, in the USA. If the atmosphere did not exist, millions of meteoroids would fall to the Earth and the Earth would become an inhabitable place. Yet, the protective aspect of the atmosphere allows living things to survive in safety. This is certainly Allah's protection of people and a miracle proclaimed in the Qur'an.
In short, a perfect system is at work high above the Earth. It surrounds our world and protects it against external threats. Centuries ago, Allah informed us in the Qur'an of the world's atmosphere functioning as a protective shield.
zia m
Member
I never felt the same gratitude for the Creator through any theological sermon or prayers.The mysteries of the universe impress me the most.
toamin
member
Seeing is believing!
zia m
Member
Yeah right! Whatever you say primate boy!
shahzad1924
member
Islam also invites everyone to acknowledge the existence of a creator through a rational process.
the sermons are further guidance to the ones who have already reached the conclusion that there is a creator.
zia m
Member
Your c in Creator should be capital.
The sermons delivered by the mullahs are based on hate.We need to accept our humble beginings.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@zia m: The kind of respect you'r giving the CREATOR, by using 'c' or 'C' is insignificant. Its an illusion at best.
The significant way to respect the CREATOR is by being obedient to HIS orders, HIS teachings, HIS ways.
Haris Khan
“@zia m: The kind of respect you'r giving the CREATOR, by using 'c' or 'C' is insignificant. Its an illusion at best”
So, you don’t even care about the CREATOR because respect expressed by a member is SIGNIFICANT for those who care.
Now have you explained yourself as to why do you frequently use the words ‘I don’t care’ or ‘who cares’.
What to talk about science
Where people do not believe in ordinary school education and blow up the schools with pride.
Where people support the blowers of schools and consider them as their heroes and follow them.
Where people don’t believe in what they see but believe in what they don’t see.
Where prominent of our scientists was humiliated simply because of his religious faith.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@adnak: Do you agree that the symptoms you describe are the result of rampant lawlessness, mass scale injustice in a society/community/country/nation ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
There have been countless events, incidents in the past thousands of years, that science can't even come close to describing, yet 'DEEN' describes them to perfection.
Haris Khan
Symptoms I described are due to un-necessary interference of religion into politics of Pakistan.
One of the the solutions to Pakistan's problems is to confine the mullas in their domain. They are not competent or educated to understand the economics / politics.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Thankyou for making that statement. Thankyou for exposing yourself. That is what I wanted everyone to note about you and your views.
toamin
member
Adnak,
Mulla is already confined, where is the problem?
Seculars hold the power and are in driving position.
Haris Khan
Thanks for getting me exposed. You win
JJ
Who says mullas are confined. Har jagah darandazi kartay hue nazar aatay hain. Seculars kay kandhhon par sawar ho ke unnko blackmail kartay hein. Rozana siasi taqrwwrain kartay hue nazar aatay hen. Har talk show mein bongian martay hein. Rallian nikaltay hein. Aur kia kutch nahee kartay?
Jis din yeh confined ho gaey, Pakistan kay adhay masail hal ho jaeen gay.
toamin
member
The ones that you refer above are your friends, so please don't criticize your friends because they have agreed to walk and talk per secular code.
I hope you realize the value they bring to secular/atheist ruling class of Pakistan.
sasherwani
Members
@adnak,
Mulla-ism is a business. These ppl have more knowledge of our religion and they twist and turn it to use it for their personal motives and gains. Not only are the mullas the 'owners' of Islam in Pakistan, but are also the thaykaydaars of Islam worldwide. They burn bikes/cars/flags when a 'cartoon' depiction of the prophet is published in Denmark. They burn a local KFC for any Israeli insurgency. They attack minorities if Babri Masjid is burned in India.
Dont expect them to just disappear one day. They are a bacterial infection for which no anti biotic has been invented yet.
toamin
member
I say what is the difference? MQM/PPP/PML they all do "jalao gherao" politics, picking one party while leaving other is no justice.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@sasherwani: Your words are as empty of rationale, of meaning, as is your thinking.
You aren't happy that Mullah has never ruled over this nation in the past 60+ years, that they only helped in creating Pakistan's constitution when they were asked for help, that only secular powers have, you want even more! You want complete eradication of Mullah from Pakistan.
I see your biased approach.
sasherwani
Members
@ Haris,
Biased approaches are rarely accompanied my real-life examples. Please re-read my post.
For the last six decades, the mullas have contributed equally in destroying Pakistan as our corrupt politicians or our army dictators. Though not in power, their fear and threats have always been kept in mind while making important decisions. More examples?
- The entire nation is burning with terrorism and the mullas are brainwashing us into believing that Talibans are harmless and another foreign hand is the root cause of the current crises.
- Zia ul Haq, an army dictator, did whatever he could to keep the mullas smiling. A complete change of educational curriculam, banning freedom of press and eliminating any social activity he considered 'unislamic' are just a few.
- Whether its Nawaz Sharif selecting his wazirs or whether its the cricket team of the 90s selecting their squads, all decisions were being made at the ever-familiar district of Lahore ruled by the mullas. (Guess which place I am talking about?)
Haris Khan
In recent times, mullas (taliban) got opportunity to rule the country (Afghanistan). Every one knows how miserably they failed. None of the countries of the world recognised their government. The three countries which recognised them also broke relations due to their idiot policies.
They adopted policies which resulted in over throwing of their government (as they came into power on gun point and were removed from the government on gun point) and large scale destruction for the people of Afghanistan.
Stupid people here in Pakistan want to see an 'action replay' of mulla government and 'action replay' of destruction.
Allah bachaee inn janwaroon say.
toamin
member
Actually the afghan govt was quite successful in establishing justice, order and removal of drugs.
This success is even acknowledged by UN.
They were sincere and uncorruptable people which lead to invasion of country but that invasion would have failed miserably if secular janwar mushy had not collaborated against a Muslim neighbor.
Yes JJ, one good thing was that they minimised drug trade. However, their justice system was flawed and partial. They maintained temporary law & order on gun point and by leashing terror. At the same time, taliban destroyed education system in Afghanistan, which is a base for progress of any nation. They were absolutely ignorant to International Politics, Economics and Peace with other countries.
I bet, you install a similar Jangli Janwar government in Pakistan and the results will be no different to that of Afghanistan, simply becuse we don't have the capacity and power to resist international pressure.
This is also not true that had musy not collaborated with US, they would not have been successful in throwing away Taliban government. They still could do it but with an added cost. It was the help of Northern alliance which made taliban to run fast for their lives.
BaliMA
Member
if the taliban are so good than why dont you go and live with them. JJkhan and haris khan why are you not living with your beloved butchers?
sasherwani
Members
Quote of the month:
Actually the afghan govt was quite successful in establishing justice, order and removal of drugs.
nuff said.
BaliMA
Member
jjkhan nahie apnie medication nahie lie phir is ko dora parr giya haie aur is karaie kaie tutto naie taliban kaie liye dholak bajana shuru kar dee haie.
toamin
member
Dear Adnak,
By just saying that some this is flawed doesn't make it flawed, one has to present it with respect to a case to elaborate the claim. I see your claim but find it baseless.
I don't think they destroyed educational system? Was there ever existence of any institution or system there? If there was no system or institution then it is again baseless to say that system was destroyed -lolz!
We have jangli janwar govt installed in Pakistan, actually it is worst than jangli janwar because even jangli janwar follow law of jungle, what we have is shaytan admi govt. Don't miss wusat-ullah khan's article on law of jungle, you will wish to prefer it over secular sheytaniat!
American generals themselves claim that without logistics, intelligence and air support from Pakistan they would not have been able to invade Afghanistan.
It would have been impossible for America to invade Iraq & Afghanistan without tacit support of Iran & Pakistan -don't miss Tariq Ali's lecture on this, he explains how!
Thx
BaliMA
Member
taliban ka leader motorcycle paie bait kar americans saie baghta haie. Aur yeh marsiyoun ki tarah us ki tarifoun kaie pull band reha haie. End reslut ye hie niklna tah kaie behtullah mehsud naie **** ki mout marna tha.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
(sarcasm) Yes, Taliban were 'jangli'. Where else could we see a state in the world where criminals were arrested, brought up for trial, charged, convicted and then punished within the same day ? (/sarcasm)
Where else in the world do we have such example of justice ?
Yes, Taliban were 'jangli janwars' to wish for removal of 'co-education' in Afghanistan. Western people started propaganda of 'Taliban destroying women education' as a result. (sarcasm) What nonsense, huh ? (/sarcasm)
US is spending billions! in Afghanistan according to published reports for curbing drugs. No body tells how much they are spending to support production of drugs in Afghanistan, by supporting Karzai, Gen. Dostam etc etc, by escalating the war in Afghanistan, which has but nearly destroyed US's economy. US won't be able to sustain current war path for many years.
Yes, Taliban were 'jangli janwars' to have virtually wiped out all drug production from Afghanistan.
Yes, it was Taliban 'jangli janwars' who US called for 'talks' on oil/gas pipelines that would run through Afghanistan.
BaliMA
Member
haris khan swat maie larki ko zameen paie luta kar kon mar reha tha. Zara india, israel or blackwater ka naam lou ta keh maie hans sukoun.
kq
Member
salam,
"If there was no system or institution then it is again baseless to say that system was destroyed -lolz!"
If there was no education system, then why feel the need to ban girls education and destroy their schools. There was no justice in the Taliban govt. there was only tyranny!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@BaliMA: Abhi US (aur US main basne wale loag) jis tarhan kutte ki maut marne walay hain, wo bhi dekhne ke liye tayyar ho jao :-)
Aaj tak kis ko pata chala ke larhki ko leta ke kon maar raha tha ? Us ne cover lia hua tha. Kis ko pata hai ke wo kon tha ? Kia pata koee aam mujrim tha, ya koee apna hi banda jo ye propaganda video banane ka drama kar raha tha ?
BaliMA
Member
taliban atnie achay thay tu un kaie chumchay jjkhan aur haris khan un ka under kyon nahie ja kar rehtay?
toamin
member
dear kq,
it is incorrect to say that they destroyed schools, actually they gave those schools to boys saying that first boys should be educated and after new schools are built then girls will be able to go.
toamin
member
i think we are going off the topic here.
adnak & bilma please open new thread for this discussion
BaliMA
Member
jjkhan in a country where 51% of the population is female wouldnt you say that is a stupid idea?
kq
Member
salam,
i quote you again,
"If there was no system or institution then it is again baseless to say that system was destroyed -lolz!"
Kya yeh khula tazaad nahin :)
toamin
member
right kq, i believe there was no educational system there.
let me know if there was any
thx
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@kq: It took Pakistan what, 25 years, to even HAVE a constitution ?
Afghanistan had just come out of multiple decades of fierce war.
Give them a break!
Your argument raises the question, do we have institutions in Pakistan, which work in the interest of the masses ? If no, how credible or worthy is the existence of those institutions ?
P.S. Infact I could very well claim there's no constitution in Pakistan even right now, since Zardari is continuing on Musharraf's path.
toamin
member
balima
no, not stupid idea, i would say very wise idea because that is wise distribution of resources.
BaliMA
Member
haan bahie there are so many simlarities between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Mullah Omar is like Quaid Azam and Osama Bin Laden is exactly like Allama Mohammad Iqbal. Al Qaeda is like Muslim league.
kq
Member
salam,
i quote you again,
"it is incorrect to say that they destroyed schools, actually they gave those schools to boys saying that first boys should be educated and after new schools are built then girls will be able to go."
Isn't this doublespeak. Make up your mind first. Pal mein toola pal mein masha, lolz
toamin
member
I've figured the confusion, so you are saying the school buildings are educational system?
I don't consider building structure to represent a system.
BaliMA
Member
jjkhan bhia taliban neh buddha ka statues kiss waja saie explode kar diye zara is per bhie rushonie dalo?
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