Secular Democracy, Liberal and Tolerant, Women Rights, Human Rights

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Secular Democracy, Liberal and Tolerant, Women Rights, Human Rights

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shahzad1924
member

...and most importantly FREEDOM OF SEX AND RAPE !!!!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/US-Embassy-Guards-In-Afghanistan-Scandal-Pogo-Reports-On-Alleged-Hazing-In-Kabul/Article/200909115374102?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15374102_US_Embassy_Guards_In_Afghanistan_Scandal:_Pogo_Reports_On_Alleged_Hazing_In_Kabul

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 4:12 #
Revivalist
member

It is ineed the true face and nature of secularism/democracy, which is the root cause of all the evils that are taking place in the world.

Regards

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:22 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Revivalist

Tell me please if Taliban Terrorists acts of beheadings and suicide bombings are 'true face and nature of Islam or Muslims' ?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:28 #
AsifK
Members

RS Bahi,

According to these 'Kalifahs' thats only an emirate , a pre-req / preview of 'khilfat'. Just imagine what 'khilfat' would do :)

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:30 #
Anonymous

Scorpian and ASif K, so you both are saying this is justified because Taliban are not true face of Islam?

How is Taliban and Khilafat relevant to this post?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:33 #
semirza
Moderator

@AsifK and Red-Scorpion
Your posts should be relavent to the thread topic. Anything other than this will be considered as 'diversion tactics' and/or attempt to derail discussions adherent to the thread.
Such posts will be removed. You are advised to observe the COC.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:40 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@semirza

What about 'story' and 'topic' of this thread ?
Don't you think Khalifah group is trying to malign secularism here just becoz some drunakard american soldiers did dirty things at a party in Kabul ???

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:43 #
Revivalist
member

Bsobaid,

Bro they are seriously suffering from both intellectual recession as well as severe Islamo-phobia/khilafah phobia. In fact they have nothing to speak so let them say whatever they want, for them the reply especially in the blessed month of Ramadhan, should be "Salama"....

Regards

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:43 #
AsifK
Members

semirza

If misdeeds of any follower is enough to malign any idealogy , and thats permitted in COC then waht else i can say.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:49 #
semirza
Moderator

@Red-Scorpion and AsifK
You have been adequately advised. Now you are being warned. Anything not related to the thread topic will be taken as 'diversion tactics' and not tollerated any further. If you dont have to say anything relavent here at least do not pollute this thread any futher with your arguments. If you insist I may have to remove you temporarily for a period.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:49 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@semirza

I know that's all you can do i.e. to remove me as my only crime here is that I don't tolerate irrational rants and always respect logical reasoning !
Anyhow, I would again request you to check the story yourself and then decide whether 'topic of this thread' is appropriate or not !

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 7:52 #
Revivalist
member

H.E ASIFK said "If misdeeds of any follower is enough to malign any ideology" Dear ASIFK FYI Bush, Obama, Blair and Brown are representing the whole Nation and especially the whole capitalist block, hence the crimes and genocide they are committing in Iraq and Afghanistan can never be attributed to them alone, its the whole ideology that is fueling the war, isn’t it????

Rs,
Do you know of a recent attack in Afghanistan where almost 100 innocent people have been killed by NATO forces?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 8:12 #
AsifK
Members

H.E.Revivalist said

'Dear ASIFK FYI Bush, Obama, Blair and Brown are representing the whole Nation and especially the whole capitalist block'

Dear Revivalist FYI , in the images i didn't see any bush , obama , blair and brown. Can u ?

Since its above your mental level but still would explain that

Even if this news is true , this is something being done some individuals. No system allows or orders that.

Revivalist
Whats about hundreds who die in mosques in pakistan and in suicide bomb blasts ? Thats collective damage. Right.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 9:29 #
Revivalist
member

ASIFK,

Dear you have again continently skipped the whole paragraph which clarify my point " hence the crimes and genocide they are committing in Iraq and Afghanistan can never be attributed to them alone, its the whole ideology that is fueling the war, isn’t it????"

Dear when a lunatic American kill people in university, college, school, gyms etc have we ever said that we are going to deal that criminal or generally the criminal society of the west? Hence "Suicide attack" in Pakistan is in fact an internal mater of pakistan, as I think pakistan is a state which has its institutions, government, judiciary, army, law enforcement agencies etc, who is United snakes to interfere in Pakistan’s internal affairs, legally speaking????
Please think trice before responding!!!!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 10:14 #
AsifK
Members

Revivalist
I think u missed my msg altoghter. I copy it for u .

'
Since its above your mental level but still would explain that

Even if this news is true , this is something being done some individuals. No system allows or orders that.
'

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 10:36 #
khurram Zaman
Member

and most importantly FREEDOM OF SEX AND RAPE !!!!

Yes these are the moral values secularists want to develop here.
Look when a group of persons have the rights to made laws than you should expect the same like,homosexualiy law legal sex laws and culture like this.
This is a reality and secular group should market their secularism product using the same(Positive values)rather than getting Mad at the poster..
I think they dont have sufficeint Marketting tactics...lolzz

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 10:46 #
zjshami
Member

@ Revivalist,
The whole story is really disturbing, immoral and cannot be appreciated or justified.
It doesn't matter who is performing and propagating such unacceptable activities.
But I don't like the way you have tried to twist the issue to expose your hatred for a particular system.

"It is ineed the true face and nature of secularism/democracy,"
No Sir, this is not the true face of Secularism/democracy.
These could be the 'bad eggs' in a basket just like we see bad eggs in Taliban and other 'Islamic' groups.
One can post over thousands of Non-Islamic acts being committed by the 'supporters' of Islam and Khilafat.
After watching those clips, would it be wise to conclude:
It is the Ture Face of Islam/Khilafat?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:23 #
shahzad1924
member

so, RS and AsifK, are you defending these acts?

if yes, why don't you go to one of these parties and have a good time with these buddies of yours?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:24 #
shahzad1924
member

zjshami, if a Muslim does a wrong deed, thats because he IS NOT acting according to Islam

but if a secular/liberal does a wrong deed, thats because he IS acting according to his beliefs/values

do you understand the difference?

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 13:26 #
LetsDoIt
Member

Red-Scorpion wrote:
Don't you think Khalifah group is trying to malign secularism here just becoz some drunakard american soldiers did dirty things at a party in Kabul ???

BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN THIS THREAD?????

You are maligning islam just because few terrorists utilized this name for beheading muslims.

This is a clear indication that how a secular phsycos behaves and at the same time thinks that he is better.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 16:00 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Why do we expect any good from a society that has left behind ALL moral centers long ago?

Why do we expect good from a nation, who has long since abandoned spiritual fulfillment?

Why do we expect good from a society in which people ONLY focus towards over-doing fulfillment of physical needs of the body ?

This is the classic case of a nation when Islam was sent on earth the first time i.e., in Muhammad (SAW)'s era, when the Roman Empire was present. The prevalent empires of that era ALSO exhibited the SAME traits as we see in this news.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:19 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@LetsDoIt: Have you forgotten what is happening in Iraq? In Japan?

where these people have assaulted under-age girls, for which the people of those nations have ALSO protested?

Have you forgotten it completely? This is NOT! only happening in Afghanistan. It is happening where-ever they are present today

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:20 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Revivalist: I still have to read page 3 on the thread 'Looking for Mr. Clean', but generally, I agree with you about Khilafah system

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:22 #
netengr
blocked

HT Members closely watch all western channel ......

Seeing na mahram new anchor is Haram ..Astaghfirullah

Kash ham gunahon ka boycott kernay walay banjain

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:22 #
chechen
Member

na mahram aurat ki hukumat me zindagi guzaar kar ab na mahram anchor ki baat kar rahe ho. Is se badkar kya hypocricy ho sakti hai.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:38 #
netengr
blocked

Hamara kaam hay bachna ..dunya tou waisay bhi Khasaray main hay

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 20:39 #
shahzad1924
member

netengr, please do not post irrelevant comments. your attempt at closing down this discussion will not be successful, insha Allah.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 21:44 #
NNL
member

Wasnt the Japan the beneficiary of the largest rapes cases done in a non war period by the visiting US Forces ?

so whats new.

Its the same lewd practices.

I did like to know why the RS and Asif are being uptight about it.

Posted 2 years ago on 07 Sep 2009 22:05 #
shikra
Blocked

Mr. Shahzad1924 wrote:

"if a Muslim does a wrong deed, thats because he IS NOT acting according to Islam

but if a secular/liberal does a wrong deed, thats because he IS acting according to his beliefs/values"

Then acknowledge openly that there are Muslims who did not act according to Islam since the period of Khulafit-i-Rashida where they killed their own muslim brothers.
(Jang-i-Jamal) where 27000 SAHABA KARAM were killed on both sides.
Were they SAHABA KARAM who killed the other SAHABA KARAM?
Why the SAHABA KARAM could not act according to Islam?
Please, explain.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 2:16 #
AsifK
Members

Shahzad Bahi
'
if a Muslim does a wrong deed, thats because he IS NOT acting according to Islam

but if a secular/liberal does a wrong deed, thats because he IS acting according to his beliefs/values

do you understand the difference?
'

Can u plz expalin. In my oponion its hyprocracy. Would liek to hear your oponion.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 2:27 #
chechen
Member

The battle of Jamal was not the fault of Muslims on both sides. Rather it was manipulation of the situation by Kuffar. It led to the battle but it should be rememberd that both attained highest rank in this duniya and will attain higher rank in paradise as states by Prophet SAS about his close companions.

1. It was the fault of a hypocrite Jew , Abdullah bin Sabah. This jew who stirred the Muslims and exploited the killing of Osman RA and the appointment of Ali RA as a khalifah .
2. The killing of Osman RA was not from Ali RA , as farbicated by Abdullah bin Sabah. Osman RA was killed by a convert who do not have a strong faith and took revenge for the death of thier kins in the great war of Badr , Uhud and other battle.

After the battle Ali RA did the funeral prayers for BOTH sides. This should put to rest any idea about the enomosity betwen sahabas which was a result of treachery of others.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 3:51 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

"""The battle of Jamal was not the fault of Muslims on both sides. Rather it was manipulation of the situation by Kuffar. It led to the battle but it should be rememberd that both attained highest rank in this duniya and will attain higher rank in paradise as states by Prophet SAS about his close companions."""

>>>

So, sahaba were not wise enough to avoid falling in Kuffar's trap !
BTW what do you think about Jang-e-Sifeen, Jang-e-Naharwaan, Tragedy of Karbala, and Battle of al-Harrah?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:11 #
AsifK
Members

WELL said RS.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:16 #
chechen
Member

Nobody can question their wisdom. In spite of their falling into the trap, they are promised Jannah by Allah SBT. Period. Leave them alone and do not try to get your warped logic to question their wisdom. End of the day, it is you and me that need to worry about our fate in hereafter. Those Sahabas attained salvation in this world through martydom and will be raised high in heaven.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:20 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

Unfortunatel unlike you I do have some gray matter between my two ears and I'm not going to accept anything uncritically !
What you are saying is some Kuffar under the leadership of Abdullah bin Sabbah fooled eminent sahaba which led them to kill each other in Battle of Camel(jamal), Jang-e-Sifeen, Jang-e-Naharwaan, Tragedy of Karbala, and Battle of al-Harrah !
Still all those killed in those battles would go to Jannah, that's simply mind-boggling for me !

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:26 #
chechen
Member

The arguments and questions deliberately raised here are to malign the character of Sahaba Karam RA. Allah knows the intention of each one of you as He is closer to you than your jugular vein. The answer was given to one crackpot that was trying to raise incidents of Islamic history out of context to blame the Sahaba's wisdom.

Moderator, Such questions are way off topic and the persons are bent upon raising those issues are inadvertantly or consciously leaning towards blasphemy. They have nothing else to contribute and trying to get a kick out of some controversial incidents that has been answered by leading scholars througout the history. If they think the incidents are serious enough to shake their Iman, they are free to join the kuffar bandwagon. They will get rousing reception for sure. So take a hike.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:28 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

What do you think about those Khalifahs who tortured Imam Hanbal, who put Imam Abu Hanifa in Jail and also tortured Imam Malik ?
What about Harems of Khalifahs, is it permissable in Islam ?
What if you become Khalifah, will you have a big harem too ?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:37 #
lota6177
Members

...and most importantly FREEDOM OF SEX AND RAPE !!!!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/US-Embassy-Guards-In-Afghanistan-Scandal-Pogo-Reports-On-Alleged-Hazing-In-Kabul/Article/200909115374102?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15374102_US_Embassy

What does this post has to do with Pakistan? This thread has nothing to do with Pakistan at all. Welcome to PKAghanistan. The women who were banned by the Taliban from work have finally found a job and that affects Pakistan. Up next for discussion should be us marines in Germany and their immoral party where drugs, booze and women were present.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:50 #
zjshami
Member

Mr. Chechan,
The main problem what is creating more difficulties for the Rightist School of thought is that they start defending, covering up and justifying even what cannot be logically and rationally defended.
Why don't we accept a wrong as a wrong.
If a wrong was done by Sahaba we should not defend but could be better to keep quite.
The Sahaba Karams, though respectable academically, were also human beings.
The nations which learn from the mistake of their forefathers, can progress better.
All that glittered was not gold.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:52 #
chechen
Member

The reason they were tortured was due to their upright behavior and admonishment of the luxurious and often unislamic lifestyle. They believed and pratices the Hadith that made it mandatory to speak against unjust rulers.

The western hostorians talk extensively about harems to discredit Khilafa system. This was later day khailfas like Ottomans.

InRamadan Friday Qutbah, I heard the Imam narrate the incidents of Taqwa and quoted one incident of Khalifa Harun Al Rasheed who once passed thorugh the market and the royal guards pushed a old man aside. The old man shot back and quoted a verse from Quran that implies O' Harun, Fear Allah. I don't remember the Ayat. Anyway the Ayat struct the Khalifa and he was moved by that verse and repented and feared Allah and asked the guards to be respectful of the old man and ask them to apologise to the old man. He and his guards did that. This shows that although they were not upto the calibre of orthodox Khalifas nevertheless they were much more pious and God fearing than today's scounderals leading the Muslim world.

Another incident is the last Abbasid Khalifa who heard the cry of a old woman harrassed by Roman soldiers at the fringes of the Islamic Empire. The Kkalifa Moatassim Billa heard the plea and wrote something like this to the Roman Emperor "From Amir Al Muminun to the dog of the Romans. We will dispatch wave after wave of Muslim army until the initial contingesnt will reach Rome and the army still will be leaving Baddad in rows after rows meaning the entire army of the Khilafa. He said he will not stop until the Romans apologise the old woman and compensate her of rinsult and agree to pay jizya ". This was the charcter of those Khalifas.

Just don't get carried away by their harems. Pleae concentrate on their Khilfat and the care and protection they provided to all-Muslims and non-Muslims alike.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:53 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

Instead of shying away, pls answer my simple questions

What do you think about those Khalifahs who tortured Imam Hanbal, who put Imam Abu Hanifa in Jail and also tortured Imam Malik ?
What about Harems of Khalifahs, is it permissable in Islam ?
What if you become Khalifah, will you have a big harem too ?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 4:55 #
chechen
Member

Sister Shami says If a wrong was done by Sahaba we should not defend but could be better to keep quite.

Before you say that it is blasphemy to point the wrong of the Sahaba Karaam in the first place.Rather than keeping quite, a incident of the Islamic history was dug out deliberately to malign the wisdom of the Sahaba RA. In this case it is mandatory to defend the Sahaba RA to the extent that even it leads to utmost sacrifise with ones own life to defend their honor.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:04 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

"""it is blasphemy to point the wrong of the Sahaba Karaam in the first place"""

>>>

How long have you been working for Sipah-e-Sahaba ?
BTW tell us where in Quran or Hadith it's told that to question acts of Sahaba is Blasphemous !

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:09 #
chechen
Member

I am not working for any outfit but would like to be a lowest of the low rank soldier of those Sahaba RA. It will be an honor insha'Allah.

Those questions about Shabas wisdom and action are usually asked in debates of learned scholars who happen to be discussing that particular subject. Here, none of us is a scholar or knows anything except little knowledge that ius dangerous and to start opening that debate which is nothing to do with the topic of this post and questioning the wisdom of Shaba Karaam RA is tantamount to blasphemy. Let me reiterate that I have gut feeling that it is blasphemy. I am sure they may be some knowlegeable members here that can confirm that.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:20 #
zjshami
Member

Then burn and ban 50% of Islamic history if you really want to stop what you call Blasphemy.
No sir, I totally disagree.
This is the last rescue for you to declare everything as Blasphemy, for which Islamic Scholars have no defense.
This is extremely intellectual dishonesty and a proof of defeated mentality.
I won't hesitate to own and pocket the mistakes of my forefathers without loosing the feelings of love for them.
I love and respect Allama Iqbal for his beautiful poetic composition, even where he was blamed for murdering a prostitute as a student at the Government College Lahore.
I love and respect M.A. Jinnah, leaving aside his private life in London and Bombay.
Only Prophets are above any sort of criticism.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:22 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

"""questioning the wisdom of Shaba Karaam RA is tantamount to blasphemy. Let me reiterate that I have gut feeling that it is blasphemy."""

>>>

Pls keep your gut feelings to yourself and stop issuing fatwas on the basis of your gut feelings !

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:31 #
chechen
Member

Only Prophets are above any sort of criticism.

This is false statement. Allah SBT has included Sahaba Karaam in this category.

Sister Shami, Where are you living? Don't get carried away by the hijackers of this post who came out of nowwhere to malign the wisdom of Sahaba Karaam RA. Do you frequent masjids or just a Friday worshipper or pray at home Muslim? Take a copy of what I wrote and show it to your favorite Imam of your choice at nearest Islamic center and then lets discuss further.

It is not a last "rescue" of Islamic scholars to label something blasphemous based on their whims. Just like there are threshold that make something haraam there are etiquettes and norms that make something blasphemous otherwise there would be free for all and every Tom, **** and Harry will come up with his/her interpretation. When you venture into those categories to label something haraam or blasphemos we need scholars that are well versed in that domain. As I said none falls into that category and still taking liberty in ridiculing the wisdom of Sahaba Karaam RA.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:35 #
chechen
Member

The Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu) had differences. Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu) are not masoom (innocent) like Ambiyaa, (Alaihis-Salaam) but Mafooz (protected from sin). Their differences do not give anyone the licence to cross examine or to criticise their honour, status, dignity or position. A few note-worthy points regarding the above issue will save one's Imaan:

1. When Allaah is pleased with Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu), what right do we have to be displeased?
2. When Allaah has forgiven the Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu), who are we not to forgive them?
3. They are Jannatees, who are we?
4. To scrutinize a matter that occurred "1400 years ago and then to pass judgement is injustice to the evidence of history itself.
5. To rely on unauthentic, biased historians and pass judgement on Sahabah is a gross injustice.
6. Who are we in the first instance to act as judges ? and
7. What authority have we to put Sahabah in the evidence box or in a court room for cross questioning and examination.
8. What is the benefit of finding flaws and mistakes with the Sahabah?
9. Sahabah must be viewed historically through the lens of Quraan and Ahadith and not
10. Through tinted politically motivated lens.
11. Criticising Sahabah would mean that Allaah chose the companions for Rasulullah incorrectly.
12. Questioning the Sahabah jeopardises the integrity of the whole of Deen, placing it under question.
13. Criticising Sahabah is like criticising the spiritual mentor of the Sahabah, who is none other than Rasulullaah (Sallallhu alayhi wasallam ), and this implies a criticism of Allaah.
14. In order to criticise someone, one must either be equal to or superior to that person. What is our status in relation to the Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu)?
15. Sahabah (Radhiallahu-anhu) can criticise each other, they are on one level. Where are we?
16. Know that the one who speaks ill of the Sahabah is misled and a misleader.
17. If the words used against the Sahabah are in the similar manner used for our near and dear ones, who are far greater sinners than the Sahabah, will we like it ?.
18.The differences in Jurisprudence which existed amongst the Sahabah(R.A.) will remain .

OUR RESPONSIBILTY

(1) To defend and protect the status, rank, dignity, honour, position and integrity of the Sahabah.
(2) To disassociate ourselves from those who say or do anything against the Sahabah.

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:42 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

Please tell us where in Quran or Hadith it's told that to question acts of Sahaba is Blasphemous !

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:45 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@Chechan

What do you think about those Khalifahs who tortured Imam Hanbal, who put Imam Abu Hanifa in Jail and also tortured Imam Malik ?
What about Harems of Khalifahs, is it permissable in Islam ?
What if you become Khalifah, will you have a big harem too ?

Posted 2 years ago on 08 Sep 2009 5:46 #