http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/india/2009/07/090731_emran_hashmi_sz.shtml
India is bound to be a failed state. For all those impressed by India should read this. With these kind of issues, I have no doubts in my mind that India is going to be a failed state very soon. India is bound to fall apart, and Indians themselves will be responsible for that.
Now some mentaly possesed people would say, how many muslims get killed by other muslims in Pakistan? Why is there police in masjids? and all those kind of questions. For you all, Pakistan do not claim to be a secular state.
Secondly, these kind of things do not take place at public level in Pakistan, niether are these supported by the awam.
In Indian case, however, you can clearly see this all happening at the public level. It is normal public who is denying muslims (and probably other minorities) to live among themselves and this is not happening in a village but in the heart of India.
When was the last time you saw some building in Karachi saying, "Only patrons belonging to majority ethnic group are allowed to live in these appartments"??? it never happens in Pakistan but we see in the heart of India and in the heart of Mumbai, signboards reading "Only patrons belonging to majority religious group are allowed to live in these appartments"
This is outrageous and I think India is the only unique country that has this forum of apartheid at public level in this time and age.
Hindutva is behind India being a failed state, as soon as the plight and suffering of the masses is revealed to the whole world; they will realize that the 'caste system' and saffronizing of India by the hindutva activists are behind this expected downfall.
Indeed, Indian secularists will have to challenge the deep-seated and self-serving habit of Hindu apologists to draw wild parallels and equivalence between just about any cloak from the Vedas and the laws of quantum mechanics and other branches of modern science.
The second challenge will be to bring what we know about the natural world through science to bear upon the cosmological assumptions of such "Vedic sciences" as
Astrology, vast, Aired, yajna, Vedic creationism, "consciousness studies" and the like. Indian secularists must sow seeds of doubt in the popular
imagination about these "sciences" so that the masses reject the worldview of Hindutva on rational grounds.
This is another illusion of 'India shining' that hindutva activists are busy propagating while the whole nation suffers from poverty, abused human rights and lack of religious freedom
nihlist
Blocked
I wonder what is the educated opinion on burning a village for a blasphemy by a boy who refused to give way to a moslem?
or blasphemy law which boasts of killing anyone remotely accused of insulting prophet?
or ostracizing rape victims in society and aids patients alike!
Any thoughts on homosexuality or idol worship? Or rights of hindus who's daughters are kidnapped and married?
Such unfortunate happening is sad indeed and he can move to court if he can prove the charge. Also this is your deed that indian muslims suffer because of evil that you export so innocently as if nothing is going to happen from infidels..
India is uniques because it can house everyone equally at all levels without conflict of religion, sect or gender by law..
chechen
Member
Watch for this BJP thug. He conveniently forgot the massacre, rape and burning of thousands of innocents at the hands of maruding BJP thugs. Later the same thiugs who plundered and mudered innocents were made heros by the state government and the mass muderer Modi still runs free.
What about the case of 150 Million untouchables. Why are they still untouchables?
nihlist
Blocked
ofcourse i did not forget..do you not have problems? what about shias and sunnis? ahmadiyas which are considered lowest of low..what about your constitution demanding someone to be a proven muslim to attain high posts in elected government?
Aren't you a taliban thug or jamaat-e-islami cleric or a preacher at lal-mosque? ur society is infested with pests like you!
Yes gujrat was a sad chapter but you have ur sad chapters everyday..in your country minorities continue to live in fear of death cult you call religion..why not accept it?
Untouchability has been banned by law..In the college where i went in delhi..ranked 6th in country..i had 10 out of 50 students of such castes..it takes time but we are on right path..
is it possible for you to leave the gender apartheid in a day which is so prevelant in islamic countries? so why different standards for india.. India might not be shining but it has reserved a special place in most progressive nations in world..while u beg for food for ur country. .India's economy still grows at 7%..
Besides reading only **** about a country makes ur vision negative..u need to know how a society behaves in general to reach some sweeping conclusions
nihlist, you are another one of those time wasters.
I know time wasters like you would come up with what you came up and to pre-empt that, I composed the post #2 in this thread. This should answer all the baseless, loser questions raised by you and the likes of you.
Other respected members of pkpolitics, please do not respond to such empty, wasteful posts.
nihlist
Blocked
it appears you don't want to confront your own evil or probably ure following legacy of ur evil prophet..if u do not consider urself secular then feel free to consider india a hindu theocratic state..if it helps your cause..
if taliban burns ur house and kicks butts off ur family remember that they are true men of allah..who're pious and follow ur religion by word..
with people like you, your country is destined to be a hell-hole..
Sahnaz
Member
well nice topic. bsboid u really brought a nice topic to discuss. well its really shame fr indian society tht Mr. Imran Hasmi Cudnt get his dream house in pali hill.
well i cudnt find a word to describe the situation in Toba Tek Singh where 75 houses of minorities(christian) has been demolished and burnt why mob.
Imran Hashmi is a rich man he can buy home anywhere but wat abt these poor poeple now?? how will they afford to construct a new home and will live in fear of getting killed.
Sahnaz
Member
nihlist
some of us hv guts to face our own evils like Asma Jahangir but most of us think tht she is a Devil in pakistan, but wat she is doinn, really worth praise. well there r some others also like her who r doinn gud works under the sake of their life.
Ifzal
Member
@Sahnaz:
U sound so apologatic to this indian dude. Offcourse every nation have issues as "nihilist said that they are on the rite path". I don't agree with that statment coz indian is just a copy cat of western countries. they don't have any point of view of their own. they just follow their masters.
Whereas Pakistan is exactly on the rite path. Pakistan is going through a revolutionary change. We got free Judiciary, free Media and we are on the way to get more. Economy b thek ho jaye gi. No need to be apologatic girl. Be proud on ur own country.
Heather_Ali
Member
@nihlist,
I feel pity for people like you in every community. By insulting Muhammad (Peace be upon him) who has been recognised by western media and eastern pundits of Hinduism as the messenger iv peace and progress, you are showing your mental filth and the background of your so called intellect!
India may be progressing in numbers but the underlying lava of hatred and intolerance will one day take india down in not too far future. I agree with one of blogger that Pakistan is on the rite path and after free judiciary you will see a fair and free govt in Pakistan inshallah soon. Our Pakistani brothers and sister from abroad are not only helping Pakistan with foreign exchange but also with thier expertise gained abroad. There is a new wave of Pakistanism among these people and a big number of pakistanis are now part of this nation building projects DNS forums.... Unlike indians who wants to get blue, red passport and fly away for good as no india
wants to return to that slum of Asia.
Minorities in Pakistan can not be compared with minorities in india as in india they are living worst then animals.. unlike in Pakistan where they live any where they want!
Indians should work on the elimination of the cast system and stop the satti custom and killing of girls either at birth or after their marriage due to dowery system . Stay away from Pakistan as you will only get humilation .... Remember Kargil !!!! I am sure it still hurts!
A peek into history (this study is not exhaustive) of our worst enemy THE BHARTI HINDU:
Though three separate groups, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) all spring from the same Hindu revivalist platform whose goal is ‘akhand bharat’ (area Including all from Afghanistan to Burma).
The Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh or National Volunteer Corps, which came into existence in the western Indian city of Nagpur in 1925, is the ideological parent of the other two groups.
A social and cultural organisation, it was established with the avowed objective to make officially secular India a Hindu rashtra or Hindu nation but it is not a political party.
The secretive RSS is widely accused of harbouring a deep-seated bias against the country's minority Muslim and Christian communities. RSS leaders deny this, but say they are opposed to special treatment for any religious community.
Leaders of the RSS have in the past also extolled the achievements of ancient India -- from calculus and nuclear physics to advanced chemistry and aeronautics -- saying it was a pity Indians had forgotten their home-grown geniuses.
The life of the RSS shakhas or cells revolves round a daily martial arts drill where khaki-clad members, including many teenagers, learn the principles of obedience to RSS superiors.
The group was banned for two years after Mahatma Gandhi's assassination in 1948 because Nathuram Godse, the man who killed Gandhi, was a former RSS member.
From the same Hindu fundamentalist background, the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party is a political party that began its life in 1951 as the Jan Sangh, the political wing of the RSS.
In its early years, the Jan Sangh argued for reuniting India and Pakistan in pursuit of its central objective of an Akhand Bharat or Undivided India, a slogan it abandoned later.
The Sangh, which fought for protection of cows, sacred to Hindus, in its early years, was a regional player in the sixties.
It reorganised itself as the BJP in 1980 after splits emerged in India’s opposition and rose to national prominence on the back of a pledge to build a temple dedicated to Hindu god king Rama on a site where a Muslim mosque was torn down in 1992.
The destruction of the mosque triggered the country's worst communal riots since the partition of the subcontinent into India and Pakistan in 1947, killing about 3,000 people.
Though a part of the larger Sangh parivar or family of groups linked to the RSS, the BJP put the temple and its policy of Hindutva or Hinduness on the back burner after it took power at the head of a multiparty coalition in 1999.
But the influence of the RSS is still evident in recent efforts by the BJP-led government to "saffronise" education and rewrite history texts to glorify the country's Hindu past. Saffron is regarded as a holy Hindu colour.
The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) or the World Hindu Council is the religious wing of the RSS which was set up in 1966 as a non-political group "to consolidate and strengthen Hindu society." It has a huge following worldwide because it was set up to strengthen the Hindu fraternity globally.
Today the VHP almost has a one-point programme: to build the Ram temple in the northern town of Ayodhya at the site where the 16th-century mosque once stood. Many Hindus believe the Babri mosque was built on the birthplace of Rama itself a controversey.
The fiercely Hindu group also opposes religious conversions in India, saying Christian missionaries bribe poor tribal people with money and medical care to change faiths.
The Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) was founded in 1964 by a group of senior leaders from a hard-line Hindu organisation, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), to give Hindus what they believed would be a clearly defined sense of religious identity and political purpose.
Its founders felt the need to present Hinduism in a rigorous though simplified form which would be comparable to most other world religions.
The superiority of other faiths was believed to stem from their being far less diffuse and more uniform than Hinduism.
But its critics call the VHP a hardline Terrorist Hindu outfit with unmistakably close ties to its parent organisation, the extremist RSS, whose objective to 'Hinduise' the Indian nation, it shares.
Central to the RSS ideology has been the belief that real national unity and progress will come only when India is 'purged' of NON-HINDUS, or, when members of other communities subordinate themselves 'willingly' to 'Hindu superiority.'
The VHP has tended to tone down the rhetoric of Hindu supremacy and even make an occasional distinction between fellow (Muslim) citizens of the present and (Muslim) 'marauders' of the past.
But the ambition of establishing a resurgent Hinduism by inculcating what some historians call a carefully constructed common 'Hindu spirit' is very much central to the VHP.
This is also something it shares with the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), which currently has lost terribly in elections.
Earlier known as the Bharatiya Jana Sangh (BJS), the BJP was established in 1951 as a political wing of the RSS to counter rising public revulsion after the revered independence figure Mahatma Gandhi was assassinated by a former RSS member.
Some commentators say the party came close to obliteration in the 1960s with the Congress led by the charismatic and secular Jawaharlal Nehru, leaving little room for hardline communal politics.
But a political emergency announced by Nehru's daughter, Indira Gandhi, in 1975 enabled the BJS leaders, Atal Behari Vajpayee and LK Advani among them, to gain near stardom after serving brief prison sentences.
But it didn't really emerge as a political presence until the early 1980s.
A series of events in that decade including the mass conversion of lower-caste Hindus to Islam pushed the BJP's close affiliate, the VHP, to the forefront.
Historians say the VHP-led Hindu right considered the mass conversion of "dalits" or lower-caste Hindus to Islam to be an unforgivable insult.
The dalits, for centuries beholden to the upper castes, outraged Hindu hardliners by daring to convert at all, and moreover, convert to Islam.
The VHP saw this as a serious threat to its notion of Hinduism.
It proceeded to whip up Hindu support for a re-defined communal force, organising a series of religious meetings, cross-country marches and processions through the 1980s.
This phase coincided with the launch of an electoral strategy by the BJP to corner and hold on to the "Hindu" vote.
I believe all Pakistanis should have extensive knowledge of what a hindu is after, in the subcontinent. WHAT EVER THEY MAY BE , THEY WILL NEVER BE FRIENDS TO MUSLIMS!
Ifzal
Member
@nihilist: "Untouchability has been banned by law..In the college where i went in delhi..ranked 6th in country..i had 10 out of 50 students of such castes..it takes time but we are on right path..
Dude click on this link and see for urself which rite path u r on.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8178072.stm
nihlist
Blocked
@khan "Dude click on this link and see for urself which rite path u r on.http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8178072.stm"
you actually believe there is less disparity in pakistan? How much actually do you earn a month..me & friends around me earned about 1500-2000$s a month when i was home..have you given a thought on why in pakistan household income is so low?
or why suicide bombers are sold for a few thousand rupees? why the country needs to borrow money never to return with such rich natural resources?
i wouldn't deny there are problems india faces..if you look back 50 years..india has improved..since 90's all major companies in world have set up operations in india.
Malnutrition is a problem..government tried to remove middlemen and give money directly to farmers a few years ago..there have been farmer suicides but have reduced in last few years..this year is tough because of draught.. inspite of all this india's economy is expected to grow at 6-7%...
chechen
Member
All problesm will be solved once the war criminals exit. Don't you remember how your country was taken over by few thousand British troops. They never were able to take all Pakistan. They still cannot take Pakistan with their combined NATO, US and other colloborators. Once we get rid of US war criminals we will take care of you. Let me rephrase, we are already taking care of you as your mercenary dogs are in Afghanistan helping the treacherous Northern Alliance. You also got a military base in Tadjikistan. That will be our base soon.
nihlist
Blocked
"A peek into history (this study is not exhaustive) of our worst enemy THE BHARTI HINDU:....WHAT EVER THEY MAY BE , THEY WILL NEVER BE FRIENDS TO MUSLIMS!"
see semirza..you'd have to look very closely without bias of religion to know why this hatred exists. you accept or not hindus are native population of the land..and so are muslims..some lived here for 1000 years..these issues have to be dealt with a non-religious mindset..if you let your hawks of lashkar and jaish murder infidels on city streets..it would be natural for infidels to promote their hawks..hawks do no good..if you count hawks pakistan has a lot of them itself..infact many of them u'd see right here on this forum..
rss and bjp's religious agenda is something not majority of population shares.. if you followed the recent elections you'd know that they came down from last election and oppn came into power without any alliance which was unexpected..
Have you every tried to read history of islam in india, undivided india? right from conquests of ghauri, aurangzeb to babur.. would you accept an islamic empire be invaded like that? like what zionist jews do?
In the present situation only solution is to not promote hawks and reduce religious intolerance..this is the way US and west have prospered and this should help us as well.. Hindus have a long way to go too..
yahya
Member
“Shame on India -worse form of apartheid”
@bsobaid:
Try this; http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/xtian-homes-burnt
See which is worst.
"Now some mentaly possesed people would say, how many muslims get killed by other muslims in Pakistan? Why is there police in masjids? and all those kind of questions. For you all, Pakistan do not claim to be a secular state."
You saying secular system is better than Islamic system so you expect better from them? You do sound like this is what you saying.
chechen
Member
How dare you praise Western countries on progress.
US and West prospered at the expense of native populations. They exterminated 500 native Americans, slaves, aborogines. These native populations are extinct in three big continents North and South America and Australia.
Now take a close look at the population of India. After 1000 years of Muslim rule, Hindus are still overwhelming majority. All the negative history of British about hawk Muslim kings are all bogus and does not carry any weight. Same today, the best friends of Indian masses are ironically what you refer to as "Hawks". Remember it was generosity of Aurangzeb that saved both the British and Hindus from total annihilation.
chechen
Member
Correction: I meant 500 million were killed in slave trading, colonialistic expansion, extinction of native populations. I can provide link to this genocide.
We believe you chechen!
Ifzal
Member
@nihlist: I think ur knowledge about politics is very weak otherwise u would have understand that why all major companies are investing there. India is actually a slave and is going to used for the evil cause against muslims in pakistan and Afghanistan and Iran and so on. On the back of this investment, u need to ask ur leaders wat they have pledged. This is political agenda. Don't be happy on ur growth, this bubble is going to burst soon like everywhere in world did. Capitalism is not the path of prosperity.
Ifzal
Member
One more thing... This copy cat attitude is going to ruin all India. Just one example of ur country's copy cat attitude. India has recently legalised same sex marriage or something like that ini?
I was watching a program on BBC "The big Question". There they were discussing the same topic and most of the participants were against this same sex thing. An Indian participants curiously asked that India has legalsed this (SIN), And now u guys are discussing wether it is wrong or rite, She further goes "that don't u think that u people are now going a step back?"
She was confused that India has passed the law because of their masters in west but now masters are turning away from it?
Such a copy cat nation. U think that prosperity is in just to follow the foot steps of west?????????? Totally wrong. U will regret it man InshAllah.
nihlist
Blocked
@HEather I feel pity for people like you in every community....
My intellect is not mortgaged to an ancient dogma..unlike your hawkish muslim friends..and feel free to criticize india/hindus..be sure they won't behead you for any insult.. criticism is first step on improvement..what i said was clear insult so my apologies for the same!
see you still are dreaming of india to come down on it's own hatred! would it not be good for you to work for your own country which faces internal wars on all fronts..
how many great manufacturing units do you have on internal technology? can you build a car in pakistan without help from infidels?
so ure sure about pakistanis helping out..did you ever count indians helping indian economy? India ranked 1st in world in latest survey on remittances back home.
pakistan does not even count..you could live in a cob-web and never see beyond because the facts of matter are alien to your blinded view of world and infidels and hindus and jews and christians and west and east and us and india and israel and uk and australia and poland and sunnis and ahmediyas..
why not work for yourself instead of finding faults with what is wrong with those presumably against you? if pakistan was economically prosperous do you think india will ever dare to scare it with attacks?
thanks for clubbing whole of india/south asia as slums..look closely you'd know where poverty is..may be not..ur lenses cannot focus close enough to see truth..
really indian minorities live like animals? i didn't know..my place in delhi there are 2 mosques within 2 kms..temple in 1 km...2 gurudwaras very near and a church bit far off..
except when you muslims kill us in cold blood anywhere in country never any religious killing happens..(even then it by no means is justified)
yes there have been problems slowly country will leave this **** of religion and work on a path of peace and is doing it with this election when hawks were downplayed..
caste system is coming down..if you call someone by caste degrading him..it is unbailable offence..i have seen people going to jail for months for that..
Sati is gone and eradicated since hindus are progressive and feel free to criticize them...as i said they don't behead people for disagreement or criticism..
dowry is more cultural..but yes it is practiced..by law it is banned but what can government do if no one complains. in divorce cases though dowry and more money has to be returned by order of courts...
let me ask you this..do you think with so much population studying arabic and kuran in madrasas your country has hope? do you think in next 50 years you could gather latest technology and employment to compete with india? do you believe religious politics which is so prevalent in your country and supported by so many here is of any good to you? gender apartheid/polygamy/first cousin marriages with birth defects/ bleeding female genitals/ pardah/ hatred for homosexuals\/jews\/infidels/gender apartheid/sharia law.. do these things do you or your country any good?
msohail83
Member
"India ranked 1st in world in latest survey on remittances back home."
Obviously you lack common sense. What kind of comparison is that my friend??
Did you realize population difference?? It is 6:1.
It's true that commmon sense is not so common, isn't it?
nihlist
Blocked
@khan
don't blame me..i just don't want lies to over-ride the truth..if you remove ur islamic lenses of hatred..u'd know what i am saying..
"understand that why all major companies are investing there. India is actually a slave and is going to used for the evil cause against muslims"
really i did not notice! what evil did india do to pakistan? or why would getting jobs inside india harm indian interests or promote zionists? see in delhi 20 years ago we had no jobs for graduates..now there are abundant jobs..for engineers favorite option was to fly a plane and land here in US but now they can work in their own country..the chip for ipod that world uses is designed in apple center in india..you want to promote an idea of hatred amongst india and west or pakistan and west and guess what there are people who refuse to give in to your evil thoughts..i am sure there would be some sane pakistanis who would refuse to take your words as representative..india is booming..even with this downside and loss of jobs..everyone that i know in india is getting 40k Rs a month or more and has a job..
you blame capitalism or secularism or zionism for all of your own evils? why not show us a single example of what you are trying to promote? what? Iran No they are shias..Saudi Arabia? No, they have a bad human right record? Tali-ban? they are no good just watch movie os-ama on youtube! Nigeria/somalia/syria/iraq/kuwait what?
"I was watching..inshallah"
well please improve ur knowledge of world and then argue..in india in accordance with medieval laws same gender sex was a criminal offence..which was inhuman and so many homosexuals had to leave country for fear of harassment..now they have decriminalized it..that essentially means that they cannot be booked by police for such acts..it does not in anyway condone same gender marriage or promote homosexuality in education..it is a humanist attitude towards something that has been declared by some scientists as natural..
Ofcourse if your standards of morality want them to be executed please do it in some religious black hole..you have to see something in perspective and how it improves a society..not blame everything on west..there is good to be taken(or copied as you like it) from west and from east which might lead to a better society where chidren aren't malnutritioned and don't have to die to kill infidels.. Promoting an idea of hatred has not helped and will not help!
nihlist
Blocked
@msohail83
"common sense" read the original comment @heather it said indians want to take a flight and not come back.. which is outright false..i have myself seen so many indians starting companies and working for tech companies back home after coming back from here..
my aim was to nullify the statement that indians do not contribute back home..this is very wrong..70% of my money here in united states that i earn..goes back to my family in india.. yes it increases the potential capital country or in this case my family has!
it is disappointing to see you mold statistics to a misleading conclusion..
msohail83
Member
Your comparison was totally illogical and your defense proves my point.
Sending money backhome is not an Indian thing. It's a common practice among Hispanics and Asians. Don't over-glorify it!
Out of a couple of hundred Indians that I've personally come across, all of them were desperate to get H1 and continue working here. They weren't worried about going back home to set up a business. You can fool someone living in India/Pakistan but not the ones who live abroad.
chechen
Member
nihilist, You still think skyscrpars, technological gadgets, shiny cars and other trappings of modern life is "progress". No my friend, unless you have spritual and moral high groiund your progress is not worth the trappings. Simple life and contentment should be the goal. Unfortunately the progress you are chasing with full speed is mirage. Some temporary relief but pain and agony in the end. The countries that have higest per capita like Sweden and Norway have highest suicide rates and the populations are under demographic catastrophe. Check my link on post-Return of the Khiala, Like it or not
Ifzal
Member
U don't know anything about the history and politics. so lets not waste my time. Khilafath is alternative to all. During the khilafa even jews and christian fought war side by side with muslims for their land. why was it? because they were happy in that system. their rights were protected in Islamic law. Islam is a peacfull religion of all and I don't need a certificate for this from u.
The law which u r talking abt has destroyed the inner fabric of the western societies. I don't need to tell u this coz u wil just jump to defend. coz u r copy cats. How much voilation of human rights is happening in India these days is not a hidden truth now.
And don't worry abt us. As I said these days we as a nation going through an enormous revolutionary change. Ask ur masters from west that 300 years ago why did they came in the subcontinent and how they decieved us all (Muslims + Hindus) and stole all our wealth. They don't have there own. they are thieves. and if u don't understand this then u r an idiot like many of Indian and some of Pakistani as well.
nihlist
Blocked
@chechen yes i dare to praise western countries and i dare to put you down and show why you lag behind while world progresses...please try answering with logic and not rhetoric..
not only US..in argentina they killed all the natives when spanish settled..same happened in canada and latin america..present generation of americans have nothing to do with it..it has been well over 300 years..everyone here is apologetic for what their previous generations did..It is no logic to lay responsibility of those genocides on present generation..US is the only country where you are free of religion and god..you wouldn't know with these islamic glasses..
"Now take a close..annihilation"
take a dip in water of truth..hindus survived because they stood fast to their gods inspite of taxes and brutal mass murders..you refuse to accept history because you have been brainwashed into believing lies..most of you were of any other religion other than islam less than 20 generations ago..not that conversion is unhealthy but when it threatens native population you cannot term it rational..what do you have to say about israel's policy on muslim arabs?
Ifzal
Member
And to add to msohail's point, I had a couple of Indian class fellows in UK during my degree. One was female and she said that Her "Papa" has told her to find british born boy for urself and settle there. Don't come back to India.
Hahhhh..... U people are sending ur sisters and daughters for this. Shame on u.
Eight years from now for the first time in 2001 in India, Census data was collected for slums. Slum data was collected for cities/towns having 50,000 population or more based on 1991 census. Slum population for States/Uts is reported in this table. According to this population of slums all over India was 40,297,341 (40 million) from the 607 cities/towns reporting slums. This comes to ~4% of total Indian population (assuming Indian population of 1000 million). More interestingly it comes to ~22% of the total population of these cities (178,393,941).
This means that almost quater or more of Indian cities live in slums. And among them 5,531,062 (5 million) of this population are young children (0-6 age group).
The numbers for the richest state in India, Maharashtra are even worse. Almost 32% of the state's population live in slums. And > 5 million (5,823,510 to be precise) are in the financial capital of India, Mumbai. About 49% of Mumbai's population live in slums. Slums are described by some people as places where the village folks wont even think about keeping their animals. And even then we see such a large urban population in slums. Wonder why??.
Slums of Calcutta, Dehli, Madras (I will quote old names) and Bombay are world known specially Dharavi from Bombay. Generations have been living in barasatis, jhoperpattis and chawals and the same is true for generations that are born, live and die on footpaths. This chawal and footpath culture is only found in India, not in Pakistan.
Renaming Vespa to Bajaj and Honda to Hero Honda makes no difference. Come up with something that has been built from A to Z in India. We started manufacturing tractors, jeeps, tanks, armoured vehicles since a long time back (Ayub Khan) while 1965 famine of India is on records we were laying the foundations stones of a 'Radio Isotope' manufacturing plant, that facilitated us in agricultural research at the Layalpur Agricultural University. Same time we had color TV transmitions, and after us Srilanka, while you were still struggling with B&W technology.
Now we are producing ICBMs (far more accurate than yours and advanced-a world known fact), submarines, even advanced fighter-bomber aircrafts while you airforce track record of fatal crashes is shameful for the one who can feel it.
Caste, untouchability, sati all are in full bloom, thanks to hindutva, just go to you rural India (80% is what I am talking of)and see with your own eyes. You will really blinded by the sheen of 'India shining'.
msohail83
Member
700 Million ppl living below poverty line is no JOKE! NDTV is doing a good job brainwashing you into believing that you're about to become super power.
You govt doesn't realize Americans are using India as a proxy to counter China and they've successfully got them to sign pacts to buy arms worth billions of dollars while ppl die of hunger everyday. What a shame! wake up!
nihlist
Blocked
msohail83 "Your comparison was"
you have to be mentally blind to not see what i said..i just said indians do contribute back home..i never compared how much or what fraction of their earnings representative of their population abroad goes back to their country..
to say indians just wish to take a plane and never come back is a blatant lie..i wonder if you could actually know 100s like that..sending money back home increases nation's capital. i could give examples of 3 companies that i know in bangalore that have been started by indians who went back and now are doing good.
Now saying about contribution by % of income or cause..yes for all i know muslims usually do a better job than most indians..not that i or u have statistics to prove it..india has such large population outside that in sheer numbers they counter contributed money by any other country..
what are your standards? Coming back or not is a tricky question especially in religious/nationalist circles...and could never be sole criteria for contributing!
msohail83
Member
nihlist
Pagal admi, you're missing my point.
Sending money backhome doesn't equate to moving backhome. We all send money backhome cuz that's our culture, we're raised to look after our folks unlike so called civilized West where after 18 it's all about YOU!
PEOPLE!!!!!
THere is no point in responding to the likes of Sahnaz, yahya and nihlist!!!!!!!!!!!
Pakistani is bad, very bad, worse even.
Does it matter to you Indians?
We dont claim being a modern, secular state with whatever GDP growth, neither do we claim to be a global power.
India makes all these claims and India must feel shame on herself. Shameful situation for India and Indian society.
Rest of the pkpolitics participant, please dont respond to the toba tek singh or burning of chirstain homes in Pakistan. This is completely unlreated to Indian issue.
Agreed.
Thank you professor sahab
yahya
Member
PEOPLE!!!!!
THere is no point in responding to the likes of Sahnaz, yahya and nihlist!!!!!!!!!!!Pakistani is bad, very bad, worse even.
Does it matter to you Indians?"
I am not Indian. I asked why you expect more from Secular India than Islamic Republic of Pakistan. There must be a reason; I just want to know it.
I am Indian just for asking?
We dont claim being a modern, secular state with whatever GDP growth, neither do we claim to be a global power.
But we do claim to be Islamic Republic, and unless you believe all that goes on in Pakistan is Islamic and Republican, we have a few things to worry about ourselves.
I dont understand why you even have to raise issues in Pakistan when something goes wrong in India. You always always do that and the only threads you participate are the ones that uncover the true reality of India. That makes me think you are an Indian and if you are not, then I fail to understand your behavior but then I am not interested in your behavior either.
So, the divisions among general public in India is astounding and outrageous. A person belonging to minority group is not even allowed to live in a decent area of his choice. This is a shameful situation.
Sahnaz, yahya and nihlist may NOT participate in this discussion and I ask everyone else on pkpolitics to completely ignore their posts in this thread.
yahya
Member
Again, you have not answered my question; why do you expect more from Secularism than from Islam? This is a fundamental question. If you consider Islam superior then your expectations from an Islamic system should be more than from any other system. My worry is you make statements but do not understand their full implication.
nihlist
Blocked
well..this isn't true that muslims aren't allowed to live in decent area of choice..after bombay riots which arguably everyone knows who did and who started, people were scared on having muslims in their apartments..not that they hated muslims but because they feared regular police raids and arsenal collected there. It only started after 90's and is visible only in Bombay!
problem is rigid as the mindset of people needs to be changed..however in 2006 someone moved to a court and he won the case..court ruled that there cannot be any justification for discrimination..i do concede such incidents continue to happen, but with the media acting the situation will be tamed down very soon..Just a sidelined point..my friend being a hindu was denied an apartment in muslim majority complex in bombay..
In delhi we have had tenants in our house as muslims..if you can, just for 5 years stop fueling the jihad from ur side of border..you'd see hindus/muslims will march together hand in hand..you forget the freedom struggles that our grandfathers have fought without thinking of muslims/hindus/sikhs..
@khan do not generalise what you see from some of ur acquaintance..if i generalize then muslims sell off their daughters to polygamists and child molestors..
Now, i know my statement is vague and cannot conform to a significant portion of muslims..and so is yours..do not overburden your brain to find problems with india..ask me of actual problems and i'll list it..what you know is **** reflection of your own mind and not what reality is..
nihlist
Blocked
@yahya i do not know what thought process you are coming from but i will give my two pence..the worst act that i have seen in sub-continent is mixing religion with politics..religion has to be a private matter on sole discretion of the person and personal choice..laws of religion should never interfere in how state functions or how judiciary functions or how army functions..these aren't revolutionary thoughts..
when indian hawks get hold of power on slightest provocation they massacred muslims..if everyone had their faith rested in justice system then people who burned the train should have been executed and not the 100's of others who had nothing to do with the carnage except shared belief in same god.
problem is that if you come down to delhi you'd see people who understand this view yes not the hawks but those who control government..not on this forum though..most are interested in mud slinging and blaming others..even when resting their own hopes on extremism and to the extent of shutting any criticism of own evil..however constructive that criticism may be..
chechen
Member
Nihilist,
Why are you so admant on the secular constitution that you blindly aped from your ertswhile colonial Masters. You chose to relegate the "RamRajya" that was secular and religion combined. The reason you abaondoned that concept was due to your religious dogmas that conflict with scientific discoveries just like the Christians relegated their religious dogmas to Sunday worship.
As a matter of fact when Islam had integration of politics , science and religion they led the world from 800 to 1600 AD and we will do it again-Insha'Allah. We don't have dualism like you and West.
See this excerpt from Carly Fiorina the former CEO of Hewlett Packard
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness. More than ever, we must focus on the importance of leadership - bold acts of leadership and decidedly personal acts of leadership. With that, I'd like to open up the conversation and see what we collectively believe about the role of leadership.
nihlist
Blocked
all these are half lies spread to brainwash people..
"I could not remain a Muslim because Islam hates women. I think I always knew this, but as I got older that knowledge became more acute, Islam wants women to cover themselves, to stay indoors, to obey men, however stupid those men are. Islam says that women are inferior in every way. Islam distorted my father’s feelings. He did not want us, his own daughters, to be happy or fulfilled. He only wanted us to be good Muslims and for daughters this means to be suffering Muslims. What sort of religion forces fathers to make their daughters suffer? What sort of father thinks that his daughter’s hair is shameful? What sort of father tells her she cannot sing and dance when she is happy? A Muslim father.
This is why I am not a Muslim. My children, boys and girls, will be able to feel the wind in their hair. They will not be ashamed. They can sing and dance as much as they like. Nothing they do will shame me, as long as it is done with life and joy. Islam has no joy. Islam is a cult of tears and death."
------------------
"I am a 30 year old male who was born in pakistan but moved to the west with my family when i was 5. I was forced to attend religious training with ignorant and cruel mullahs. I developed a deep seated fear of god and not obeying his law. I made friends of all races and religions and had to reconcile that with the fascist, absolutist doctrines of islam. So, I created a mental schizophrenia. In my heart i always felt that inequality of women was wrong, that non-muslims were just as equal and human as muslims, that science provided much more reasonable explanation of the world than the myths of islam ever did but I was too paralysed by fear and not wanting to upset my family. So I never said anything. Then puberty hit, when I realized i was attracted to boys and not girls, I had an extremely difficult crisis of the soul. I knew the extreme contempt that islam had for homosexuality. I felt i'd suffer the torment of hell for feeling the way i did. I tried committing suicide in college but i was saved by a friend and that was the turning point. I decided that I was no longer going to be a slave to a barbaric, fascist, sexist, homophobic, totalitarian, obscurantist, cultist, joyless, loveless, fear mongering horrible horrible horrible ideology. Today free of Islam and religion I feel more liberated and powerful & in control of my life then i could ever imagine. I have created a family for myself with people who share my values and accept & love me for who i am. I wish all muslims in the world have the same opportunity to free themselves from the liest they are brainwashed into believing. I realise I have this privilege in the west where i have the freedom to chose my life's path."
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nihlist
Blocked
@chechen if you keep history as proof for what's wrong and right you'd realise what israel does in occupied territories can be justified on similar lines. I am not here to debate whether colonialism was wrong or right..perhaps for what we have suffered we know there wasn't anything to justify it.. however it did help india to remove the prejudices in hindu society..evil like sati was deemed illegal at that time..
what you want to promote is a hateful society based solely on religious values which have conflicts even amongst muslims.. if you look outside your dogma there is world like you've never see through pardah of cleric's dictates..
it doesn't require you to evolve a gandhi out of yourself..you have to be human first, nationalist second and muslim later world would be different and pleasing..
NNL
member
nihist's seems like Sahnaz or demitiri
doesnt it.
Heather_Ali
Member
Nihist,
you claim to earn over $1500 to $ 2000 even before moving out of india ( I take it that must be good few years!!!!)
I have an Indian friend presently working in india in Delhi as a consultant surgeons and earns around RS 150000 to 200000 per month in 2009. I am wonderng, were u the governor of indian bank before leaving india? Or you think that majority if Indians are earning that amount even today?
Sahnaz
Member
why u people comparing me with demitiri and nilhist. i hv only one id n im happy with tht. cant u c the difference between my n nilhist posts. my english is as nt gud as him or others.
well wtavere happening is in India, its their problem. we r discussing here tht a celebrity didnt get home bcz of being a muslim. well thts really condemnable, n shud be condemnd but wat abt million sof people who cant afford homes being as untouchable, different religion, castes.well i think its an indian problem and its depend upon their society how they solve it.
well concern is here tht 8 christains hv been burnd alive by sm fandoos by a stupid rumor. one thing i cant understand is why we hv such law. i meant of blasphemy. do we really need it?? we muslims r free to call other religions by any name n can criticise them. can make fun of their rituals and system, but why cant we tolerate with such criticism??
on other thread written by skyfact tht a christian insulted quran thts why all this happnd, even Mr. shahbaz bhutty hv denied such allegations.
well i think we shud better luk at ourselves before throwing dust on others.
thnx
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