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Shamus Rahaman Khattak (PMLN)Youth sec KPK from Karak to join PTI.JH contacted.

(57 posts)
  1. SufiSoul

    He is ex-MNA ANP now PMLN youth wing secretary KPK.A well known and Powerful KARAK and KPK politician is in Talks with JH,to join PTI..

    Sama TV reported and Local KARAK news Papers also have published news.....

    Posted 2 years ago on 18 Jan 2012 22:30 #
  2. showrealassets

    remember i said after Javed Hashmi every thing b change in politics because PMLN underestimate JH.

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Jan 2012 0:23 #
  3. Respect

    If JH recommends him then I think we should take him on board. It will be a big blow to the so called youth wing of Noon League!

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Jan 2012 0:48 #
  4. SufiSoul

    noora league just started organising kpk youth by giving task to shamsur rahman khattak,due to his energetic personality and strong candidate in distt karak but i think that many of the whole villages and towns joining announcements in PTI karak have shaken confidence of PMLNers and result is clear....

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Jan 2012 2:08 #
  5. Qaiser Nadeem

    Posted 2 years ago on 19 Jan 2012 2:58 #
  6. SufiSoul

    Masood Shareef today recieved shams ur rahman khattak along with thousands of workers of PMLN and He resigned as President PML(N) Provincial Youth Wing of KP in order to join PTI..
    Another PMLN 4 to 5 ministers of KPK are underway tasks with JH to join PMLN....

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 13:38 #
  7. Dusky

    Yeah to bara pakka lota hay, ANP say PMLN aur ab PTI...

    Inqalab Zindabad!

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 15:40 #
  8. anasyounus

    @Dusky
    Why didnt you cried the same way when he jumped ship from ANP to PML-N?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 15:47 #
  9. Dusky

    @anasyounus
    PML-N is not torch bearer of "Inqalab" neither they claim to be the cleanest of all. Beside if the standards for PML-N and PTI are same, then why bother with another crook?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 16:54 #
  10. anasyounus

    if PML-N thinks it is business as usual why do they jump up and down when some one joins PTI, after all it is the same PML-N who till this day claims to have "High Moral Ground" and torch bearers of "Usooli siyasat" and isnt it same NS who claimed he wont take any Q-league person in the party?
    Isnt this extreme form of hypocrisy?
    why do you not jump up and down so much when PML-N and NS taken the "52 Sitting MPAs of Q-league in punjab"?? like you do when PTI takes some into thier fold..
    "Electables" are the ground reality of our "Constituency Politics", good for IK and PTI that finally they understood the ground reality..while still promising to make sure they will not give ticket to any "Corrupt".. so all good till he backoff on his promise..

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 17:08 #
  11. anasyounus

    as for promising to bring "Inqalab", PML-N claims to have "already brought" Inqalab.... did you ever asked NS/SS or PML-N as to when and where they brough this so called "INQALAB" of thiers?? or were they talking about INQALAB in the bank accounts, businesses and assets of Sharif family???

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 17:11 #
  12. siddiqi73

    This Shams dude is a nobody and hence, whateva levitates the sheep herd.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 17:17 #
  13. bsobaid

    I like the name of newspaper..Karak!

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 17:20 #
  14. anasyounus

    @siddiqi
    this "nobody" got PML-N 22053 votes in 2008 elections where as in 1997 when he contested against PML-N candidate he secured 22935 votes while the PML-N candidate secured 5945 votes.

    Dont ridicule people after they leave your party,, if you really mean all this.. name all those 'nobodys' 'lotas' 'greedy' 'establishment people' within your party today so tht we dont raise a question when they opt to part ways from PML-N

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 17:45 #
  15. anasyounus

    also name the 'known land grabbers', ' financial corrupts' 'moral corrupts' and people who are not suppose to get tickets from pml-N..

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 18:19 #
  16. Dusky

    @anasyounus:

    "why do you not jump up and down so much when PML-N and NS taken the "52 Sitting MPAs of Q-league in punjab"?? like you do when PTI takes some into thier fold.."

    Exactly my point. If PTI is on same route, then why bother with another crook in the mix? When they do same as what PML A to Z and PPP doing then they are no different. It's business as usual. So is "Inqalab":)

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 19:54 #
  17. SufiSoul

    This Shams dude is a nobody and hence, whateva levitates the sheep herd. ....

    ///////////////

    Shams is a Pakki MNA seat and youth leader.he is famous organiser for Cricket/Football tournaments at district and KPK level.He is so far clean businessman in dubai and two times MNA.
    PMLN was hopeful that he will organise youth once again in KPK.But drams of PMLN seriously shattered now.
    The situation is very worst in this district KARAK for other parties where whole of the Towns are in series of arranging JIRGAS to join PTI.
    I think that almost all of the parties candidates are in process of TALKS with PTI but PTI is choosing CLEAN and STRONG candidates only which is good sign....

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 20:30 #
  18. Pak1stan1

    @Dusky,

    Changing parties is not lotaism.

    Do you understand what Lota means? Do you know how this term was coined in Pakistani politics?

    Even Qauid-e-Azam changed his party. Insisting on wrong is bad, rejecting wrong and correcting your direction is a trait of human. Only in mafias, loyalties are unchangeable. In politics, loyalties are with ideology, not a person or name.

    PTI is not doing any wrong taking in strong politicians. This only shows the growing stature of PTI. PTI is PTI because of its leader, its supporters, and its ideological workers. These big joinings are testament to PTI's rise, not the cause of it.

    This should not be the reason to put PTI in the same boat. If PTI compromises on its direction and policies, then you had a point. So far, PTI hasn't.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 Jan 2012 21:09 #
  19. anasyounus

    @dusky
    I already replied to this point.. but anyways let me repeat it.. "Electables" are the "Ground Reality" of "Constituency politics" in Pakistan.. Unfortunate but this is how it is.. I am happy for PTI and IK that they are now aware of the Ground realities of Pakistani politics and are playing their cards accordingly while also promising to choose the candidates more carefully so that while selecting a 'winnable' candidate they dont select a person with 'bad reputation' or with 'corruption charges' against him. I dont see any Issue with this.. but I was surprised when PML-N came out and started jumping up and down on this while they themselves are doing the same..
    In another thread I have already analysed the fact that PML-N is actually afraid of the 'Ground Reality' Aware PTI and that is why they are coming after PTI all guns blazing.... totaly converting the 'Go Zardari Go' slogan and associated rallys into 'No Imran No'..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 4:50 #
  20. Dusky

    @Pak1stan1:

    "Changing parties is not lotaism.

    Do you understand what Lota means? Do you know how this term was coined in Pakistani politics?"

    No, I was born yesterday. Please elaborate for me what is "lotaism" and how does the term coined;)

    "Even Qauid-e-Azam changed his party. Insisting on wrong is bad, rejecting wrong and correcting your direction is a trait of human. Only in mafias, loyalties are unchangeable. In politics, loyalties are with ideology, not a person or name."

    Yes, your khalifa once quoted this without context, ever since sheeple are resonating. If you would have read Pakistan history and would have known reasons for Quaid to change the political parties, you would not have compared the action of these goons with Quaid. It's an insult to the great man even to mention his name with these sale-outs in same sentence.
    Loyalties with ideologies? Guy already jumped ship thrice,from core secular ANP to right wing PML-N and now to middle of no where PTI. Quite an ideological guy, isn't he?

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:02 #
  21. Dusky

    @anasyounus:
    ""Electables" are the "Ground Reality" of "Constituency politics" in Pakistan.. Unfortunate but this is how it is.. I am happy for PTI and IK that they are now aware of the Ground realities of Pakistani politics and are playing their cards accordingly while also promising to choose the candidates more carefully so that while selecting a 'winnable' candidate they dont select a person with 'bad reputation' or with 'corruption charges' against him."

    Bhai mara, this is exactly what I am saying, if this is ground reality and a way of wining for PTI then why blame others to adopt same tactics. What difference then between PTI and PML A to Z and PPP. They all follow the same rule. This is politics of status quo. I am disappointed with this because this will take PTI into same political mess we all hate to begin with. I remember watching one of IK clip where he wanted PTI to run on lines of Bhutto, JI and MQM, where parties are supreme and "elected members" are secondary.

    Regrading clean people coming to PTI, don't be so ignorant. Don't we all know about the corruption of Laghari, Mazari, Sawati, sardar Asif Ahmed Ali and many more? To add further, remind me what is the source of income of Shah mahmood Qureshi?

    Call a spade an spade....

    Let me try to find IK interview where he talk about party being supreme, and then de decided to run down hill....

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:14 #
  22. SufiSoul

  23. anasyounus

    Its not PTI who are jumping up and down on people joining PML-N, its the other way round.. dont try to distort the facts...

    As for IK saying he wants to go bhutto/JI/MQM way by giving 'electables' secondary importance thn party.. yea he is correct and he is going that route.. Bhutto had the 'electables' in his party.. so will PTI have

    the case of MQM is different.. its not because of MQM that there is no 'electables' concept in karachi politics, even before MQM it was like that people like 'Professor Ghafoor Ahmed', 'Asghar Khan' and sher Mazari used to win from khi, these guys had the political stature but were no guaranteed electables with 'bradri', 'community' 'cast' or 'sect' vote behind them... AND you have seen khi Jalsa of PTI, it was HUGE HUGE but do they have any 'ELECTABLE' in thier ranks from khi or sindh which made that possible?? so PTI will also nominate candidates who are not as such 'electables' from urban areas like khi, lahore, Rawalpindi, faisalabad, Islamabad, Peshawar

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:49 #
  24. anasyounus

    and for rural areas, PTI will have to rely on 'electables' but at the same time making sure tht they dont nominate a candidate with 'bad reputation' or 'corruption charges' against him..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:51 #
  25. anasyounus

    what made you think party is not supreme? Did PTI changesd its stance on any of the national Issues after the joining of these 'electables'?

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:53 #
  26. anasyounus

    And the most important Question is Do you see any better option than PTI or IK in our politics? if you think some one or party is better than IK or PTI, share it with us all and also share the reasons why you prefer tht party or person over IK or PTI..

    After all its one against the other... and we have to choose the best available option.. I never claimed that IK or PTI are an Ideal option, but only the "Best Available' option....

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 5:57 #
  27. Dusky

    I am not distorting the facts. Fact is, the person I hate the most in political process is the one who cross the floor, who dos not have the guts and honor to resign and go back to his electors. Or the person who change political pary every election just to be part of government.

    Majority of the PPP elected members under Bhutto were unknown in Pakistan politics at that time. People voted for PPP not for the candidates, that's what IK is referring in his argument. Political pundits of the time were not even considering Bhutto to be opposition leader, let alone majority leader.

    the case of MQM is different.. its not because of MQM that there is no 'electables' concept in karachi politics, even before MQM it was like that people like 'Professor Ghafoor Ahmed', 'Asghar Khan' and sher Mazari used to win from khi, these guys had the political stature but were no guaranteed electables with 'bradri', 'community' 'cast' or 'sect' vote behind them... AND you have seen khi Jalsa of PTI, it was HUGE HUGE but do they have any 'ELECTABLE' in thier ranks from khi or sindh which made that possible?? so PTI will also nominate candidates who are not as such 'electables' from urban areas like khi, lahore, Rawalpindi, faisalabad, Islamabad, Peshawar

    Professor Ghafoor Ahmed, Asghar Khan, Noorani, Shah Fareed-Ulhaq, sher Baz Mazari were known politicians with backing from strong political parties, and they always win seats with seat adjustments. Elections during their time mostly held between pro Islamic and secular parties, ethnicity and bradiri does not played the prevalent role in urban areas during those days. Now situation is different. Especially in Karachi name me one national constituency where you think PTI can pull a seat on their own?

    PTI jalsa in Karachi by any mean can not be used as barometer for street level temperature, we have seen that JUI can pull even a bigger crowd. Let's wait till we get close to election, you will see JI, PPP, ANP and MQM will pull even bigger ones.

    From rural or urban, once PTI you go electable route, they can not find saints. They are and will relay on corrupts.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:16 #
  28. Dusky

    To answer your question about better option: May be I was leaning PTI way few months ago, but seeing all the leftovers of "kings party" in PTI and no clear direction or program in place beside get in power at any cost (so is the inclusion of electable), I don't see them any different from other parties. I condemn and acknowledge "burai" as "burai", bigger or smaller is relative to each his own.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:22 #
  29. Adonis

    With Rehmat Salam Khattak getting prominent position in PML-N, there was no scope for Shams. His leaving the party was widely anticipated.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:22 #
  30. Dusky

    So he is again jumping the ships in anticipation of a better personal future in PTI.

    Please someone remind me definition of "lota", please;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:33 #
  31. Adonis

    Of course he is jumping ships for better future prospects as he did not see a future for himself in PML-N. But then this is true for all those who recently joined PTI. Either they did not see any future benefit in their previous party or were not given assurance about better future with other parties. PTI, on the other hand has an open doors welcome policy for all and sundry. As a result, it has become the refuge of last resort for all "lotas".

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:37 #
  32. anasyounus

    @Dusky
    "I am not distorting the facts. Fact is, the person I hate the most in political process is the one who cross the floor, who dos not have the guts and honor to resign and go back to his electors. Or the person who change political pary every election just to be part of government."

    This is what I am saying that the time you spent on critisizing PTI for taking these people is 100 times more than you spent on PML-N taking 52 sitting MPAs of PML-Q under thier wings, they also have 4 senators of Q-league and 100s of Ex-MNA/MPA/Nazims under thier fold... so why dont you jump up and down on tht? why only target PTI?

    This clearly shows tht you have no Issue with people jumping ship but the only Issue you have is when people join PTI..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:43 #
  33. anasyounus

    as for people winning from karachi before MQM, all those names I or you mentioned had 'Political' support, they didnt had personal votes based on 'bradri', cast or sect.. and I dont see nay objection on people having support because of thier political views or affiliations,. infact this is what is desired...

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:46 #
  34. anasyounus

    @Adonis
    Again the same point, why you guys ridicule the people once they opt to leave your party? Why dont you name all those potential 'lotas' 'coorupts' 'land grabbers' 'greedy', people ' driven by personal motives' and people 'who have no place in PML-N' 'no chance of getting ticket in next elections' before hand so that we dont raise the question while you ridicule people who opt to leave PML-N

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:49 #
  35. Adonis

    Because we do not proclaim ourselves to be "holier than thou".
    PML-N and others are political parties with all the pros and cons of the current political system.

    If you claim to bring a change and portray yourself to be superior than others, then of course you will be expected to act better than others. You can not hide behind the fig leaf that others do this as well.

    In that case, yours is just another party like every one else and the slogans of moral superiority are just that, mere slogans.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 6:59 #
  36. anasyounus

    @Adonis
    let me remind you that it is NS who thinks he has 'already brought CHANGE and INQALAB", it was PML-N leaders including NS and Nisar who claimed that only PML-N will bring the "REAL CHANGE"..

    And also may be because of short term memory loss you may have forgotten that it was NS who was giving lectures on "USOOLI SIYASAT" to all, it was NS who was promising that he wont take Q and Mush people in his party, it was and it is PML-N who claim to have the "HIGH MORAL GROUNDS" and it is NS who claims that Q-league and Mush people when they join PML-N, it means they are accepting our idealogy, party manifesto and policies so "NO ISSUE"..

    So why raise the objection when these people join PTI and accpet its manifesto and party policy and idealogy????

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:08 #
  37. anasyounus

    @Adonis

    Waiting for you to share the names..

    """Again the same point, why you guys ridicule the people once they opt to leave your party? Why dont you name all those potential 'lotas' 'coorupts' 'land grabbers' 'greedy', people ' driven by personal motives' and people 'who have no place in PML-N' 'no chance of getting ticket in next elections' before hand so that we dont raise the question while you ridicule people who opt to leave PML-N """"

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:09 #
  38. Adonis

    It is indeed very honest of you to accept that your leader Imran Khan is doing the same thing that you accuse Nawaz Sharif of doing.

    Thank you.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:11 #
  39. anasyounus

    what ever makes you happy mate..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:13 #
  40. anasyounus

    as i said earlier I would love to hear your reasons of supporting or prefering PML-N over PTI and NS over IK...

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:14 #
  41. asif65

    @Adonis

    With Rehmat Salam Khattak getting prominent position in PML-N, there was no scope for Shams. His leaving the party was widely anticipated.

    Only the member of Sharif Family have a scope getting prominent position in Sharif-Family League. Soon Sharif-Family League consist only the member of Sharif Family.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:22 #
  42. anasyounus

    @Adonis
    "With Rehmat Salam Khattak getting prominent position in PML-N, there was no scope for Shams. His leaving the party was widely anticipated."

    If Rehmat salam is a better person, more eligible for prominient position in the party and a better overall candidate than why NS and PML-N gave ticket to Shams in 2008? why not Rehmat salam? any idea?

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:22 #
  43. Adonis

    Rehmat Salam Khattak was the district nazim in 2008 and could not contest elections.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 7:28 #
  44. Dusky

    @anasyounus:
    My criticism is not limited to PTI only. I said "ALL" means anyone who involve in floor crossing or change political parties every election.

    At the movement PTI is under scrutiny because they claim to be different then others, they claim to be cleanest and claim to go against the prevalent political culture of Pakistan. Where as with PPP or PML we expect that they get involve in such activities. But when PTI resort to same activities then its shattered promises, then there is no difference between them and others.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 18:34 #
  45. anasyounus

    you are going in circles.. if its not just against PTI why you are not so vigrous in opposition when the same thing is done by PML-N? I told you that PML-N also claim to Have taken the "High Moral Ground" always, they claimed that they will never take Q/Mush "Baqiyat" in thier party, they were preaching "Usooli Siyasat" to all, they are promising to bring the "REAL CHANGE"...?? than why you dont apply the same standards against PML-N what you apply for PTI?? Isnt this shattered promises???

    I dont consider it an ideal situation as far as my support for PTI is concerned but I do understand that this is not an IDEAL WORLD EITHER.. if they dont give tickets to corrupts or people with bad reputation.. thn its ok with me..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 18:50 #
  46. anasyounus

    We like it or not and PTI like it or not.. the same faces will remain in rural area politics.. no matter they join PTI/PML-N/PPP or any other party ....
    but I am sure from Urban area constituencies some good candidates will be announced from PTI..

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 18:53 #
  47. anasyounus

    This is a hardcore fact of our "Constituency Politics" and to change this, only "Electoral reforms" will not be enough.. a deep down Education Reforms are required even than we will only be able to see the results after 15-20 years...
    Checkout todays Kamran Shahid Program about Politics in Multan..the situation is same or similar (the factors could be dofferent) in other rural parts of the country.. now unless you do reforms in "Education system" .. you have no way out...

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 18:58 #
  48. Dusky

    anasyounus:
    In circles, hardly. Your argument is resort to the point that PTI we should look at PTI in same manner as we look at any other political party as they are no different.

    If yes, then stop beating the drums of "Inqalab" and being the "cleanest". If no, then at least acknowledge that PTI made mistakes and they should rectify mistakes to deliver what has been promised.

    Secondly, don't run all over. If there are so many pre requests to deliver the final promise (like electoral reforms or education or what not), then your leadership should aware of this before sailing the dreams. Now, this all seems excuses for broken promises.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 19:56 #
  49. pacemaker

    both contanders of the game play under same rules & regulations to have a match even if it is between Australia vs Zimbabwe in cricket, Brazil vs Bhutan in football or PTI vs PML-N on morals, otherwise it is just not possible, but happy to know that even PML-N hardline supporters believe that PML-N is so low on moarl grounds that it should not be compare to PTI!

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 22:17 #
  50. Dusky

    Movement PTI resort to same tricks and techniques as PML and PPP, they are no different then them.

    Good to see "inqalab" hangover is getting over and the kids are getting back to reality:)

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 22:56 #
  51. SufiSoul

    With Rehmat Salam Khattak getting prominent position in PML-N, there was no scope for Shams. His leaving the party was widely anticipated.....

    1.After loosing 2 many members and personalities in majority of the areas of KPK.
    Key provincial leadership posts were turned towards distt KARAK and Rahmat Salam got such a position.But now PMLN left with no real man in KARAK also as many of the key are running towards PTI.
    Regarding Shams ur rahman he was also occupying key youth leadership position at KPK level so why go for any other position at KPK..
    Things got very serious for PMLN politics in shape of PTI and difficult to imagine over internet.....

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 22:57 #
  52. asif65

    Now I understand, why Sharif-Family League give only the member of Sharif Family prominent position in Sharif-Family League. Because they are sure they won't leave them. Now imagine if Salman or Hamza would also leave them, then the twins will occupy all the key position instead of just 20 ministeries

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Jan 2012 23:36 #
  53. anasyounus

    @dusky
    So you think this is the only standard to judge these parties against?? are there no other standards?
    Corruption? Bad Governance? Mismanagement? competency? leadership qualities? Vision? Party Manifesto and policies?
    Clean Tax records? Asset declarations? all these are no factors?

    All other parties know that if PTI dont indulge into "Constituency Politics" and dont align theirselves with the "Ground Realities" they have no chance thats why all these people and parties were only laughing at PTI while they only had "NEW FACES"... Now THEY ARE FIGHTING with PTI.. so I think they are going in the right direction..
    I will stand with you of they opt to give tickets to corrupt people..
    as far as people who had a different view on Issues to that of PTI or IK or supported polcies which were against PTI policy.. if they are joining PTI, they are accepting PTI manifesto and policies..

    All parties have taken people in the party from other parties, this is not unusual in our political system and with our "Contitunecy Politics" dynamics specially in rural areas...

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Feb 2012 6:34 #
  54. Dusky

    @anasyounus:
    "Corruption? Bad Governance? Mismanagement? competency? leadership qualities? Vision? Party Manifesto and policies?
    Clean Tax records? Asset declarations? all these are no factors?"

    We can not judge PTI based on most of these factors as PTI never been in power. But if they are stoop to practice of corrupt political parties before getting into the power, then that's the only yardstick we left to measure.

    About leadership qualities - It's not limited to one person only, for PTI that's all gone in the vain movement leadership indulge people like Shah Mahmood Qureshi, Qasoori, Laghari and Sardar Ahmed. Basically same old goons or time tested opportunist.
    Manifesto - That's more of a personal leaning, I have yet to find a political party manifesto which does not talk about taking us to the moon.
    Asset deceleration - That also become mercy with the inclusion of former corrupts in PTI, they can declare their assets, but what are the resources. I ask you earlier as well, do you know the income resource of people like qureshi, sawati and sardar ahmed?

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Feb 2012 4:03 #
  55. anasyounus

    First of all I dont agree that you cannot judge PTI on most of these factors.. but we will dicuss it later

    but with your thesis, you will never vote for a new face, new party since they dont have a record in politics or MANAGING THE COUNTRY.. thats one thing now tell me how will you take into consideration the "NEGATIVE" track record of people who have governed the country in the past? even after their "Grave Faliures" you think we should vote for them just because they have experience?

    Unless you understand (which I am sure you understand) the difference between 'constituency politics' and the running of government, you cannot come to right conclusion..

    your point is that since PTI are taking the same 'old faces' because of the 'Constituency Politics', they will not be able to change the system which they are promising of.. Since these 'old faces' will ask for ministries and a free hand at corruption and implement their agenda..
    THIS IS NOT HOW THINGS WORK (unless the top leadership also wants it to work that way)... these people joining are important part of 'Constituency Politics' but they are not as important when it comes to policy formation and running of government.. and we have examples of that... Shahbaz Sharif with all these chaudhries, qureshis, sharifs, gujjars, jutts, ranas and all those 'important' and 'influential' people in the party is able to keep 18 ministries with him and running punjab with only 6 ministers.. (his faliure is his incompetence and his flaws)

    Qasoori was a foreign minister and he has taken what ever was Government's policy, no matter he agreed to it or not..
    Asif Ahmed although had a genuine degree but pursued party policy to not to do the verification of degrees..

    So what ever plicy Government makes.. these 'ELECTABLES" will carry it on...

    Again THIS IS FAR FROM IDEAL SITUATION but there is no way around "CONSTITUENCY POLITICS" and thier is no quick fix either.. Electoral reforms wont do you much good in this case.. ONLY EDUCATION REFORMS can improve the situation and that too after years..

    I support PTI because I consider it the "BEST OPTION" amongst other available options.... if a better peron/party comes up I wont take a second to back that one..

    If you think a 'Better Option' is indeed available, let us all know...
    Even if you think all parties have the same kind of 'Electables' in thier party.. and are equally into this mess.. the next thing you need to judge them against is the TOP leadership.. dont you think IK is a better option compared to NS or AAZ??

    People outside of Political arena also do corruption, abuse of power, tax evasion and all sorts of things why dont you give credit to Ik that never evaded what ever Tax was due on him, he never did corruption where he had every oppurtunity for it while he collected "BILLIONS" for Shaukat Khanam and NAML University,IK FOUNDATION while working for flood affectees?? if he was of the same material he could have done massive corruption in all of this? Can you say about other leaders that they are as clean as he is in thier apolitical and political life? let alone the time in government which you can say that you cannot judge IK for?
    If he had the same agenda or was working for personal gains he could have gone ahead with a deal with Mush taking whatever seats or misintries he was offering and do all the corruption?? Didnt NS accepted the same Deal when it was offered by Zia? did he not stood with Zia when he dismissed NS's own party government and continued as CM Punjab??

    Again Whether you like it or not (I am sure you dont mind it since you still support NS) and whether PTI like it or not.. these same faces will be thier in our "Constituency Politics", its upto the parties how they put them to use... This is a reality that PTI or any other party would have to live with unless we do the required "Education Reforms"

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Feb 2012 5:07 #
  56. anasyounus

    Its not just about manifesto.. PTI have a dedicated Research wing under "Insaf Research Wing" name, they have already published thier policy papers on different Issues suggesting and reccomending solution to Pakistan's Issues.. these are detailed documents which are available on PTI website..
    Also IK is the first one to divert our politics to real Issues when he announced the detailed Policy seminars on all Programs and Issues.. after that PML-N abruptly annoucned (9th Jan) their energy conference to be held on 31st of Jan, I said abruptly because they since moved it twice that means they were not prepared and were just playing catch-up with PTI.. Anyways first of such PTI Policy conferences is going to happen on 26th Feb which will be about energy Crises and solutions..
    Now it is important for us to also consider parties based on thier policies (also not forgetting the polciy considers the ground realities of pakistan).. thier agenda

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Feb 2012 5:21 #
  57. Dusky

    "but with your thesis, you will never vote for a new face, new party since they dont have a record in politics or MANAGING THE COUNTRY.."

    Nope, I will. As long as new faces are not resort to old tactics.

    Your second argument that people who are joining on the bases of constituency reasons will not have a say once you make government is a wishful thinking. Ever analyze the reasons why there are so many Muslim leuges and forward blocks? Movement you stop them, they walk across the floor and you are back to square one. It's Pakistan's politics. Once a lota, always a lota. Joining PTI will not change their behavior. EXACTLY THIS IS HOW THINGS WORK in Pakistan politics. Watch the IK clip I have posted earlier in this discussion, you will know why he was praising ZA Bhutto, MQM and JI.

    All your examples about IK excellence DOES NOT work in political arena, he was sucessful their becuse all of them are one man show, government is not one man show. A sitting PM can not change a secretary under constitution let alone sacking him. It's not board of directors, its various institutions and thy all have their own way. So thinking one man will with the help of many lotas around him can change anything is more then a pipe dream.

    And for your kind information, I DONT support NS or Muslim league. They are far from my liking.

    As far as manifesto goes, all my bias aside I have yet to see something comparable to what ZA Bhutto's PPP presented in 1970 or what MQM presented in 1987. In my opinion, PTI has a long way to come close to these two documents.

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Feb 2012 17:21 #

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