Sheikh sahib mail to me « PKPolitics Discuss

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Sheikh sahib mail to me

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Beenai
Moderator

Dear Beena,
It is glad to learn that you are still active @ the forum. You are one of the pioneers and founders of this opinion forum.
In spite of difference on certain issues, I always respected and appreciated your attitude. You never lost temper and always faced some of the uncivilized vulgar with patience and tolerance.
I along with you tried my best to keep Pkpolitics a decent, healthy, lively and informative source of intellectual input.
The reason I decided to quit, was that it was getting stale and boring. Nothing new was coming out but filthy and abusive language.
Some of the newcomers are totally bankrupt, intellectually.
I don't claim to be an intellectual of extra ordinary caliber, but I feel proud where within 70 years of my life I got a chance to meet and learn from some of the legends, such as Molvi A.K. Fazal-ul-Haq, Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah, Mujeeb-al-Rahman, Nawabzada Nasarullah khan, Khan Wali Khan, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto, Benazir Bhutto, Jigar Murad Abadi, Josh Malih Abadi,, Qateel Shifai, Habib Jalib, Fiaz Ahmad Faiz, Ahsfaq Ahmad, Ustad Amant Ali Khan, Ustad Fateh Ali Khan, Ustad Salamt Ali Khan, Mehdi Hasan, Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan, Nnayyara Noor, Iqbal Bano, Noor Jahan and several others with whom I spent some moments of my life.
It is just to give you an idea how my personality and thinking got inspiration to be tolerant, progressive and positive.
I open the site once a week to gauge the progress of the Forum where I shared my experiences for almost two years. The discussion on such forums is not with a motive of loosing or winning, but to keep the process of evolution alive..
You say 100, I say 20 and after a discussion we might reach a conclusion at 50 or 70.
There are some very knowledgeable contributors at the forum who could keep the ball rolling.

I am compiling my audio/video Music disks out of a huge collection of Music dupmed at my library since 1950.
Pay my regards to all the members @ the forum and the Moderator Semirza.
'Wishing for you and your family best of health and efficiency.
Javed Sheikh
(You may post this letter @ the Forum. It is up to you)

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 6:26 #
Beenai
Moderator

Sheikh sahib,
(i am posting your mail here with your permission)

thanks a lot for your reply.
i always had enjoyed debating with u ...as u always comes up with a logic ...though i almost always differs with u on opinions and party lines ...but i do respect u a lot as a logical and knowledgeable member of the forum.
and i really want you to make a come back..so we can learn something from you ....
u need to give some time for the new generation of us to be as good as u r ....

Zara Num Hu Tu Yeh Mitti Bari Zarkhaiz Hay Saqi

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 6:29 #
sasherwani
Members

I want him back!

Its sad that some people using harsh and abusive language and spammers like IJay turned this forum upside down.

I request Javed saahab to come back. We might never be as knowledgable about Pakistan as him, but we are willing to learn. If people like him leave, how will we learn?

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 6:32 #
semirza
Moderator

Yes, Sheikh Sahib,
I second to what Beenai has said. We do respect you and enjoyed interacting (at least on the forum) with you. To tell you the truth, I have missed you and your comments a lot. Pls allow us your presence at the forum again.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 6:35 #
Beenai
Moderator

@sasherwani,
yes..we all want Sheikh sahib to come back.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 7:41 #
aristotle
Member

JS sahib,
We r waiting of ur come back… there might be many reasons of ur departure from this forum but I must say that u should be back with ur positive/constructive contribution. No matter I do agree or not but ur contribution is always worth full and I really respect it. We can differ ur point of view but cant deny its worth. if u quit just becoz of abusive language players of this forum so that means u have opened the field for them. So you have to stay here… and play ur role …. Neither defensive nor attack just ur due constructive role that’s all… u see what results r coming of this attitude (quit/ left) ... in our society, politics, sports, social service, education, and everywhere reasonable, sophisticated and moderate ppl r quitting and their opposite personalities r playing and gaining… so plz we r requested to plz come back and lets try to make this forum a positive, healthy and sophisticated discussion forum..

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 10:45 #
msohail83
Member

Well, no disrespect intended, but since you were part of a political party it is not surprising that you had access to those stars, celebs, bigwigs, etc. After all, Pakistan is for elite class only.

What I fail to understand why you always see the glass half empty? Why do you spread despair, pessimisn, and negativity? I'm not talking about your religious side since that's ur personal affair.

I would like to know where that stems from? Is there some kind of frustration and you've given up hope or what? Why would you want the next generation to stay bogged down in the issues you experienced throughout your life? Of course, you're settled abroad, so whatever happens in Pakistan will not affect you, but there are millions living there who yearn for a great future of Pakistan and would like to be optimistic.

Your bitter feelings don't help much, I'm sorry!

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 17:13 #
shikra
Blocked

I would strongly request javed sheikh to come back to shut this bad big mouth called NNL, with a 0.5 mg doze.
He is NILL by any standard.
He is the one who is creating and promoting Hatred and damaging the healthy atmosphere of the forum to Bakra Mandi.
I wonder how he gets back to sleep after reading from Red-Scorpion, Bebus, Talal Khan and other educated members at the forum?
I pray for him not ending up in a Mental Asylum
How this man started posing as Mamma of the forum?
How much Pakistani and Islami he claims, is clear from his nonsense stereotype postings.

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 19:47 #
misalligned
Member

Guys why to get personal with some one? if you dont like JS posts answer him with logic not with hate and thats all. If JS is shikra or having multiple IDs, what we have to do with this? 100 illogical comments could be dealt with one logical argument but if you have one?

Posted 2 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 21:25 #
shikra
Blocked

Good news.
I talked to Javed Sheikh this evening on telephone.
He has decided to come back at the forum after finishing his job related assignments.
I feel his presence would help to keep this forum liverly, inspiring and informative.
He expressed his intention to come back might be close to the Holy Month of Ramadhan, when plenty of Sharbat Rooh Afza is in the market as some respectable members at the forum might need.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 2:10 #
shikra
Blocked

This Forum is Pkpolitics, a platform to ventilate one's feelings and impressions.
There should not be any heart burning if an old man like JS preferes to outlet his feelings in a Mode he likes.
Every one is free to participate, quit or come back at his/her choice.
It is not mendatory for everyone to poke his/her nose in a Drama not of their choice and kind.
It is easy to criticise than to face criticism.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:07 #
shikra
Blocked

A family of 50-60 members of the Forum, is not a place to create hatred, fight, abuse and curse each other just on minor differences. We fight for Nawaz Sahrif, Zardari, Taliban, America, India, like street children.
Show some maturity of discussion and demand respect when you deserve.
We are not here to contest any election or to win
Sitara-i-Imtiaz.
What Mr. Chechan or Mr. Revivalist can give to me?
It is just a productive hobby to share and chat with friends having different views.
Every member of the forum is already well set at his/her profession and the bond of unity at the forum has matured enough to know more about each other not to generate jealousy but a feeling of appreciation.
I have yet to understand why scholars like NNL have gone to an extreme level of hatred for JS where we have members who are more vocal and open about religion and Pakistan, than JS?
Why I am a supporter of JS?
I will let you know later. Inshallah.
Wali Gohar

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:57 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Shikra,
good news that Sheikh sahib is coming back...
we really need serious and knowledgeable person ,like him ,to lead us to know how to deal with logical opponents and how to go logic and counter logic in a discussion forum.
he needs to guide us all .
his presence is badly needed .
and would warmly welcomed ...inshallah

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 5:06 #
NNL
member

Beenai
If you were really fair you would have deleted the responses given to my post. And also would not have deleted Dervaish's post.

But i had already said that You wouldnt like my post.

Predictably binocular vision.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 5:26 #
msohail83
Member

So, he's coming back to talk to intellectually bankrupt people? LOL!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 8:56 #
NNL
member

And Moreover this the elite attitude. " forum is boring and stale" and the newcomers are intellectually bankrupt"

Replace the words forum and Newcomers with Pakistan and Pakistanis respectively and you will know the attitude of the rich bhangis who got off big on living on Taxpayer money giving nothing back but grief to the Public.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 8:58 #
msohail83
Member

Agree!

....and that is what boils my blood!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 9:01 #
Beenai
Moderator

agreement or dis agreement is a right ,every member reserved that right...
but we have a culture of respecting each other self.
we have a culture of respect to our elders .

everybody can dis agree with anybody.
but nobody can be allowed to be offensive or abusive with other members.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 9:27 #
msohail83
Member

calling others intellectually bankrupt is not very offensive, is it? Or do you only consider the curse words to be abusive?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 9:30 #
Justapakistani
Member

lolz thatz what the typical topi drama is........damn bhagoras who wish to legalize & institutionalize the prostitution , gambling ,liquor,pubs/clubs in Pakistan are termed as great intellectuals of the forum damn....

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 9:41 #
amin1924
member

Now here we have scenario where moderators know a member. For me who is new comer it appears that moderators give favor another member because they know him more than other members. May be I am wrong, but I think moderator should focus on contents of posts/threads and should not favor due to relation/acquaintance.

Yes some times old/senior members may get a response from youth due to nature of this environment, but no need to be offended because here youth/senior don't matter, quality of content matters.

Respect should be for everyone, old, young, man and woman, all. I hope you would understand what I am saying.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 9:42 #
aristotle
Member

Above discussion can be sum up in following points:

• Respect for all
• JS should not had used the term of intellectual bankrupt for other members especially new comers on this forum
• Moderator should not give extra ordinary importance or favor to anyone
• being a senior citizen on this forum JS deserve respect bit more
• Abusive language should be prohibited across the board

Moral of story: every member who has left the forum will come back sooner or later…. even banned members with a new ID :)

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 10:09 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Aristotle,
Then where is Oriel, Heather Ali, Mulla, HM,Hitler?
Not every one who leaves return with a new
ID. I know 3 of them and they have no plans to return in near future. Also if JS and his views can be tolerated then why not other banned members? I am not against JS per sae but it's unfair with others and that's why others left... Don't let PKPolitics become Pakistani Politicians Politics.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 10:43 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Khan sahib,
for your info..
i have sent same kind of mails to Heather Ali and Oriel too.
both responded positively .
but said they would wait and visit site first to observe changes and improvements .
it means i give importance to all the serious and valuable members of the forum and not to any particular one ...

here i have posted only Sheikh sahib...coz he has permitted me to post it here ...

but for your info..i am pasting here the mail exchange between me and Heather .

here u go:
Hi Beena,

Many Thanks for your email. I really Appreciate your email and the fact that you guys have been very good in moderating this site. I am sure that after the addition of semirza, you will have more control on people like skyfacts.

The reason, I left that site was the fact that most of our Scholars have started religious debates (of a high intellectual type above my IQ, as I live in real world and prefer to talk about "Common" problems first!) though Skyfacts did freaked me out, and you Know why?

I have already been approached by Khan_Sahib (who is a very good person and more practical then most of us) and I told him that I have no problem in returning but I really want Oriel and JS and now Ijay to return too. These People are the real Power and although I may differ in views with JS, I have a lot of respect for JS. I am not taking credit but Khan Sahib also did leave this forum and when I chatted to him, I did made him return. This is the guy who has worked so hard in different projects in pakistan without even mentioning it to anyone. The reason, I know this because, I was part of the team who went to Pakistan after Kashmir earthquake and for Swat IDP's. I got irritated of skyfacts as he was blaming Oriel, Khan Sahib and myself for being one person. As I didn't want to disclose anything about Oriel and khan sahib, i just decided to Quit.

Beena,

I hope you will try to bring back all the members who left! I am away for some days but will Inshallah return soon.

Again, Many Thanks for your email.

Heather

Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:58:19 -0700
From: beenai786@yahoo.com
Subject: Hi Heather Ali ,this is Beenai from pkpoltics discuss
To:

Dear Heather_Ali

We may be living far away from each other but thanks to technology this feeling is at a reduced level, only your presence will alleviate this feeling completely. At least for friends of pkp discuss forum.

As members of pkpolitics our scholarly interactions made this thing happen. A subtle and gentle bond developed, of belonging as forum friends, and you know why? Because we friends share a common brain wave length, the reason why we never had conflict of ideas.

At pkpolitics discuss forum, a lot has changed and the rest is changing, for good of course. We have decided to maintain discipline on the forum at all levels.

Skyfact has been banned, as a lesson for him and for others with a loud and clear message; no member should indulge in, and refrain from the use of humiliating, mocking, disgracing, insulting language in general and specially for the ladies presence on the forum. We have already posted a code of conduct for the members to comply. Rebels are not being and never will be tolerated. As a suggestion, why not you ladies just have a ‘peek’ into what is happening, at least have a look at the new COC!

Please don’t leave us as we feel left alone; when ever we are logged on we miss you. We thought of ‘talking’ to you before we are going to post an ‘appeal for your return’ to pkpolitics, seconded by others. And this we are going to do right now.

Think all being together once again, at the forum asking Mr. Javed Shaikh to forgive us, along with due respects that we owe him.

Please, please, please reconsider not leaving us rather joining us.

Pkpolitics discuss forum moderators

Beenai

Semirza

here is my mail exchange with Oriel.

Dear Beenai, Ma'Salaam,

Thank you for your email. I will consider it well.

Please understand the taking part in pkpolitics discussions must be within your given guidelines. By 'your' I mean that of Admin, Semirza and your kind self.

I have indeed been visiting the site each day to see the improvements being made in regulation. It is to your credit that the moderators and admin are working heard to sift the resonable discussions from the nonsensical.

Please do tell me what steps have been taken or can possibly be taken to stop a person logging in to the forum with multiple id's. Personally this mentality of mulitple id's strikes me as a weakness in the character of the user, but it becomes ridiculous to have a discussion with the same person in several different guises. What can be done about this?

How are your efforts going to bring back J.S?

Will await your reply in eagerness.

Much love,

Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 20:59:42 -0700
From: beenai786@yahoo.com
Subject: Hi Oriel,this is Beenai from pkpolitics discuss
To:
Dear Oriel,

We may be living far away from each other but thanks to technology this feeling is at a reduced level, only your presence will alleviate this feeling completely. At least for friends of pkp discuss forum.

As members of pkpolitics our scholarly interactions made this thing happen. A subtle and gentle bond developed, of belonging as forum friends, and you know why? Because we friends share a common brain wave length, the reason why we never had conflict of ideas.

At pkpolitics discuss forum, a lot has changed and the rest is changing, for good of course. We have decided to maintain discipline on the forum at all levels.

Skyfact has been banned, as a lesson for him and for others with a loud and clear message; no member should indulge in, and refrain from the use of humiliating, mocking, disgracing, insulting language in general and specially for the ladies presence on the forum. We have already posted a code of conduct for the members to comply. Rebels are not being and never will be tolerated. As a suggestion, why not you ladies just have a ‘peek’ into what is happening, at least have a look at the new COC!

Please don’t leave us as we feel left alone; when ever we are logged on we miss you. We thought of ‘talking’ to you before we are going to post an ‘appeal for your return’ to pkpolitics, seconded by others. And this we are going to do right now.

Think all being together once again, at the forum asking Mr. Javed Shaikh to forgive us, along with due respects that we owe him.

Please, please, please reconsider not leaving us rather joining us.

Pkpolitics discuss forum moderators

Beenai

Semirza

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 10:54 #
shikra
Blocked

@ Beena & Semirza,
What a wonderful and fair job you are performing.
The term 'Intellectually Bankrupt' was coined by me in one of my E-mails to JS, what he used in his letter to Beena.
Don't generalize it, please.
By the way most of the scholars have admitted that there are some Intellectually Bankrupt newcomers, who through abusive language and personal remarks have caused a situation of tension at the forum.
Thanks to Beena for posting the letters from respectable members, like Oriel, Heather and JS. I understand all these members were not kicked out or banned due to any Violation of the COC, but voluntarily decided to quit due to some personal preferences.
About the issue of Difference of opinion, I would like to quote one of JS's sentences:
'Even the children born out of the same parents, out of the same womb of the mother, don't think and behave the same way'.
Coming to the objection about JS's
"wish to legalize & institutionalize the prostitution , gambling ,liquor, pubs/clubs in Pakistan",
Such demands have been in circulation in the Media and intellectual circles since 1947, to boost the Revenue.
Go back to the files of Nawa-i-Waqt, Imroze, Pakistan Times, Dawn, Jang and Lail-o-Nihar.
(How one of my posting was digested where, I don't remember the context, confessed for taking Red Wine before dinner and offering Fajr prayers in the morning?)
The learned moderators are there to monitor the objectionable postings and we must respect their judgment.
Let me ask you, do these 'vices' not exist in Pakistan?
If the Suicide Bombing, burning and killing the infidels has been 'legalized', 'defended, supported and patronized at the very Forum of Pkpolitics then gambling, prostitution are much lesser evils.
Please show me a single posting from JS where he abused or cursed any of the respectable members at the forum.
Please show me a single posting where JS demanded to ban any member?

Now let me tell you why I support and defend
Prof. Javed Ikram Sheikh,
because, because, because,
he is non else but my uncle, living in Washington D.C.
I can bet he has not any other ID at this or any other Internet Forum. He is one of the fairest persons on his dealings.
Please cool down and help to make this forum a pleasant place for releasing and sharing the information without getting hyper or loosing temper.
We are not here to draft a National Policy.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 12:24 #
Red-Scorpion
Blocked

@shikra

I'm a novice on this forum and it would be nice if people like JS come back here and enlighten us with their views !

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 12:27 #
Justapakistani
Member

"Let me ask you, do these 'vices' not exist in Pakistan?"
So it means if corruption,rape,extortion,drugs etc exist in Pakistan so let legalize & institutionalize them? what a logic!!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 12:59 #
shikra
Blocked

Dear Justpakistani
"If the Suicide Bombing, burning and killing the infidels has been 'legalized', 'defended, supported and patronized at the very Forum of Pkpolitics then gambling, prostitution are much lesser evils."
There is a lot of difference between a Crime, Vice and Sin.
Traffic violation is a crime not a sin.
Use of Alcohol is a sin, a vice but not a crime in so many States of the World.
It is up to the Legislature in a Democratic set up to decide what is permissible and what not.
Please don't mix oranges with apples.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 13:25 #
Justapakistani
Member

Well prostitution,gambling are legally not allowed in Pakistan....stick with Pakistan we are discussing PKPolitics and these things are as per norms of the society.

Wheather its Suicide Bombing, burning , killing,prostitution,gambling all are crimes as per the law.
I am not mixing anything.....the only point is if some crime/evil exist in Pakistan it doesn't mean it should be legalized and institutionalized.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 13:42 #
chechen
Member

"If the Suicide Bombing, burning and killing the infidels has been 'legalized', 'defended, supported and patronized at the very Forum of Pkpolitics then gambling, prostitution are much lesser evils"

This suicide bombing mantra needs to stop. This is an attempt by war criminals and their supporters to hide under the carpet the ongoing genocide that has incinerated, maimed and killed millions in the so called war on terror. Please read this famous excerpt from Dr. Muzaffar Iqbal.

Whatever it was, for now 11 September 2001 stands as a watershed between the low intensity invasion of the so called 3rd world of the post-Soviet era and the present intensive and full scale war that has so far conquered two wretched Muslim countries and subjugated numerous others without a fight, eg Pakistan.

Afghanistan was more or less a trial run. Other than the blind fury and raw rage, there was nothing behind the wanton destruction of this ravaged land. It's most significant function proved to be the building of a war engine to provide a magic word for creating the most sinister label in recent history: Al-Qaeda.

Since this word was invented, framed in a context and spun around a story, it has become a magic wand applicable to numerous situations. From Madrid to Kabul and from London to Jakarta, anyone who is stuck with this label, stands guilty, ipso facto. No further investigation is needed. The general public is satisfied merely by the application of this label and the accused is lumbered with a verdict of guilty. This is perhaps the most criminal and brazen act of the aggressors, who have used the full force of their media to propagate this label worldwide. Unfortunately shikras are also duped by this pharoanic media.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 13:43 #
shikra
Blocked

I am very much disappointed to learn between the lines that an educated person like Chechan is also trying to cover up the justification for the act of Suicide Bombing.
I want to listen only one answer:
Is Suicide Bombing and the Killings of innocents is Haram or Halal according to Islam?
Yes or No, without If's and But's?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 14:31 #
chechen
Member

Killing of innocents is definitely haraam. Suicide bombing as means of asymmetrical warfare is perfecty legal. It was practiced by Pakistani soldiers in wars against India and several won highest gallantry awards including Nishan Hyder posthomously.

The ‘ulema’ that ardently talk about suicide bombings, who brand the martyrdom operations as Haram, are the same ones who still happily celebrate the ‘martydrom operations’ of pak soldiers in 1965, who wore *suicide bomb straps* around their waists to lie down infront of indian tanks in (one of world’s largest) tank battle of Chiwinda.

Such soldiers were blessed with the highest pak military medal-of-honors; the nishan e haider. None of these ‘ulema’ criticize it, they infact cherish it as a blessed act of utmost bravery (& rightly so).

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 14:47 #
semirza
Moderator

Consider me as a witness to this single assault of 600 tanks all lined up, and the only way to stop them was by taking out their chains. Human mines did this job, and effectively. Soldiers even climbed to open tank capulas throwing in grenades to do away with the crew. The steel and brass scrap from this distruction keep our foundries rolling for years to come.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:21 #
amin1924
member

So IJay wasn't lying about you ;-)

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:34 #
DeadlyHonest
member

Understanding the concept of suicide by the scholars over here is any fighting army using suicide bomers as war technique is halal and should be used against technically advanced attackers..
The proofs comming out abt Pakistan Army against India in 1965 by suicide and also it reminds me the atack of japans suiciders pilots against america...

So the issue is being resolved now that suicide bomers in a war are must and good technique if needed....

BR,

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:37 #
shikra
Blocked

The combat operation where a professional Military is fighting against an other professional Military for the Defense of the Homeland, is absolutely different than the Suicide Bombing we are experiencing.
The desire and intention to offer sacrifice of one's life for the sake of Homeland cannot be mixed up with the 9/11 attack and a chain of such attacks on non-military areas in Pakistan.
Yes, a State should detect the enemy and declare a total War where professional army along with the civilian volunteers should go ahead to kill and get killed.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:51 #
LetsDoIt
Member

Suicide killing is allowed in the battle field but killing innocents, women, children, unarmed people even in war was not allowed by Prophet Muhammad PBUH.
This was what Islam says about killing an innocent.

Please also educate me what International law says about killing of civilians using drones.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:53 #
semirza
Moderator

@JJ Khan I have given many such personal observations in my posts and that is no secret. Anybody can conclude the result of 2+2. To twist it as a propaganda was quite childish of him.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 15:54 #
DeadlyHonest
member

Every group of fighters called themselves professionals..whether a state owned army or some other non-state fighters..Every one has a goal to achieve.people attacked at 9/11 were using the logic of killings and frequent killings by Israel with the help of USA.USA stands the major finacer to Israel using veto powers in favour of Israel and helping Israel on political and military fronts..
So USA should go for the same result as caused by 9/11..they should rethink for their policies to avoid complete collaps..Rest of the powers investing huge finance in this war against USA...
The fact remains that if Pak.Army using suicide attackers or USA or others uses..they all playing fair to their interests and should not be blammed for their war techniques professionally...
i would be in favour of USA,some one else would favour Pak Army and may be some one would like Taliban style..so it requires another debate....this issue is closed i think for now,abt suicide validity....

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 16:00 #
DeadlyHonest
member

LetsDoit,
i think democracy brings the civilians into target due to the crimes of their leadership against another group of people or religion..
Democracy helps to bring change or demand change or demand for mid term election or protests rights can be used if people think for the leadership going wrong are involved in war crimes...
I think this freedom in democracy made the people target,to push the people to demand change in policies by protests use of rights or things like that.....
But how democratic govts brainwash people to get help against their policies is some thing debate able i think...

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 16:05 #
NNL
member

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/sheikh-sahib-mail-to-me#post-69704

The term 'Intellectually Bankrupt' was coined by me in one of my E-mails to JS, what he used in his letter to Beena.

SEE I KNEW IT.

JS?SHIRKA ARE ONE AND THE SAME PERSON WHO ARE SIMPLY BEING FAVORED BY THE MODS FOR SOME UNKNOWN REASON.

I mean JS the man who is such a big Columnist is borrowing words from SHiRKA. lol

See We the members of this forum are labeled as intellectually bankrupt and nothing happens, I write a response to that it gets deleted. but responses by Shikra which were personal in nature dont get deleted.

Now how is that Fair Beenai. Just cos you like or believe in JS who is basically Shirka. You have the proof all you probably need to do is study the content.

JS the columnist/professor maybe a real person in real life but i m betting for pretty sure that Shirk is using his name to get points over here and has 2 ids already involved.

IF you cant put 2 and 2 together and reach a logical conclusion that something fishy is up then no matter what happens it would pointless innit.

AREY ADMIN ANOTHER CORRUPT JOURNALIST LAUNCH YOUR INVESTIGATION.

PS Beenai do give me one logical reason why this post should be deleted as i m not being personal over here just pointing things out.

Be Fair Madam
Dont be Benazir.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 18:03 #
msohail83
Member

lol NNL

I knew this the first day shikra posted after JS's departure. I don't know how someone can miss it! It's so obvious.

BTW, have you noticed the ten-fold increase in participation by Shikra all of a sudden? I wonder if this will stay the same or fade away as JS joins back again!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 18:10 #
shikra
Blocked

I have a moral and social obligation to defend my uncle JS on all his positive actions.
As I know him better than you.
I am here at the Forum as I am on Vacation. You won't see me often once I am back to the Job.
I never supported JS where I differ.
He supports PPP where I am for Imran Khan. That is my choice.
You come up with some wise and productive stuff, I will be the first to support and defend you.
Please don't mind to reproduce some of your postings against JS and look at the language you used against him.
He is as good Muslim and as good Pakistani as you claim to be.
If you are not fully aware of his services for his homeland it is your fault.
I would have never disclosed my relation with JS but the situation demanded to vindicate his position.
Apply all of the technology to find if JS is using any other ID and you will be disappointed and shall be disappointed.
He is one of the most honest and straight forward persons at out family.
He is still nice not to pull a person like you in the Court of Law for Defamation.
If not JS, I will drag you in the Federal Court of Law here in Toronto, Canada if you don't stop bitching against JS.
Keep your loyalty reserve for some useful purpose. Please.
Have a Nice Day.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 20:07 #
misalligned
Member

sab personal games chal rahi hain yahan, shikra no matter he is your uncle or not, if you support him with logical arguments its fair but even i have noticed that many times you come for a rescue mission for him, why you feel that his arguments are so shallow that he needs your help and support. In this way you make him more weak actually.

BTW please stop this nonsense of dragging some one in the court. Before writing anything please consult with some lawyer, you means to say that some NNL, you dont even know the name just his IP, is defaming some JS and this NNL dont even knows who is this JS. never met with him, have no personal reasons to defame him. please talk some sense

@NNL
Why you like personal attacks? do you have some personal problems with JS? if not welcome him so you could undo his arguments with logic. Give yourself a chance to win using your brain instead of your hatred.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 21:51 #
Justapakistani
Member

shikra wrote
"He is as good Muslim and as good Pakistani"
yeah who wish to legalize & institutionalize the prostitution , gambling ,Alchol,pubs/clubs in Pakistan....which are legally ban in Pakistan.......and the reason by these crackpots that these things exist in society so legalize & institutionalize them to generate revenue.....thanks God atleast masses don't give damn to these bhagoraa rotten eggs......sharam magar tum ko nahi ati

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 21:57 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Beenai,

I Don't know why you become upset when I was actually Taunting aristotle whom I respect a lot too! My Point was that we all talk about JS and his retuen but dont demand that Mulla or skyfacts or even asif should have a 2nd chance. I had disagreement with JS, Mulla and skyfacts and even skyfacts personally attacked on my ID etc but even then I want them to come back! I prefer an Intellegent rival then a stupid friend. I have learned more when I talk to a non muslim or anyone who is faithless then talking to a typical mulla! Reason? Cuz the arguments of a faithless person makes me defend my faith, my religion and I end up reading more about my religion ISLAM!

@chechen,

Please dont try to defend Suicide bombers! All the Suicide bombing in Pakistan are Harram! So far they have killed innocent civilians, Policeman and army solidiers who are muslims and like these so called muslims believe in ALLAH, Quran,Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him and Believe in the same Kalma! Using this tactics in Afghanistan and in Iraq is different as foreign troops have invaded those countries. If these taliban want to inflict JIHAD then why on Pakistanis???? These are the same Pakistanis who supported them during the JIHAD of Afghanistan! And for argument sake if u justify bombings in other part of Pakistan, how can you justify bombing in Pukhtoonkhwa who are the front line people who supported you and have been victamised by both Pakistani and US army! How could You???????????

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 22:32 #
NNL
member

Khan Sahib chk your email
pls

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 22:36 #
misalligned
Member

i 100% agree with Khan-Sahib, mulla, skyfacts, asif should be brought back along with JS, heather and oriel. No bans, if you want to warn some one just ban him for one day or max up to one week not more than this. They should be asked to join this forum back.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 22:37 #
misalligned
Member

BTW

its a news for me that shikra and JS are sharing same IP. Could also be possible that they are two person sharing same office or apartment.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 22:38 #
NNL
member

Misalligned There is a lot of confusion going on. Can you please bear with me I urge Both you and Khan Sahib. there are things that are confusing all of us.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 22:42 #