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Sher-o-Naghma

(2650 posts)
  1. Musician

    Music and poetry inter-linked in a very profound way. These two art forms are inseperable.

    Ahmad Faraz would have been unknown if it was not for "Ranjish hi" and Noor Jehan would not have enhanced her status if it was not for "Mujh se pehli si mohabbat"
    It was sad to read so many negative posts on "the Poetry link"

    This thread has been started as suggested by the Moderators to take care of both branches of the art.

    "Sher-o Nghama ki yeh saughat kiey pesh karoon"

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 14:20 #
  2. Salam

    Hello Musician,

    Please stop deliberating and start delivering.

    Thx

    The IInd part of this thread continues here:
    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/sher-o-naghma-ii

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 14:56 #
  3. Dear Musician,
    Due to my sentimental and emotional affiliation with Pakistan where I lived for 50 years, I joined Pkpolitics Forum to satisfy my home sickness.

    I feel pleasure to participate the discussions at threads of my choice.
    It will be very sad and disappointing for me to be deprived of this opportunity.

    Please, Post a Naghma, relaying good Sher, without violating the COC.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:03 #
  4. Moderator did not mention the way you are saying it over here:
    'This thread has been started as suggested by the Moderators to take care of both branches of the art.'

    This is what I said:
    This is a thread for poetry and not for music. You may open up a thread on your own if you consider yourself PATRONS of rag and rang.
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Confusion should be clear now what I said. Poetry and Music are two different things.

    Discuss rags and ragnis, but not in a thread that is meant just for POETRY. MUSIC is not the thread topic there
    that you discuss 'bhairavi' or else classical but verse.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:16 #
  5. Anonymous

    Mr. Musician,

    Please enlighten us about raags and raagnis.
    HOw many of them are there.

    I reckon, Khowaja Khursheed Anwer tried to record an encyclopeida or samples of all raags and raagnis. Not sure if his project was completed.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:26 #
  6. Musician

    Hazir Hoon
    Nothing but but the best for you.

    http://www.musicindiaonline.com/p/x/25XpEVHs9d.As1NMvHdW/?done_detect

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:26 #
  7. Dear Moderator,
    Still there is a confusion.
    Would you please,like to make it clear if any thread related to Music is completely banned at the Pakpolitics Forum, in any of its form?
    Please also make it clear what could be posted at 'Chit Chat Gup Shup' section?
    I guess all the members will honor your policy.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:28 #
  8. Musician

    @BSObaid

    I wish I knew even 0.000000000000000000001 per cent of it except to say that Music is like a bottom less sea and no one knows how much water there is.

    I do have Khurshid Anwar's work in the form of 12 old Audio Casetts and indeed very informative, if only one could understand.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:30 #
  9. Musician

    Mr. Mirza

    With due respect even when one singing and or listening to Raags, it has poetry in it. The singer may only sing one or two couplets but it has poetry in it. I can understand that you do not wish to be discussed on the other Thread but tht should not mean that both cannot be discussed on this or Does it? Please clarify.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:38 #
  10. Dear Musician,
    Is it true that Raag Yamen or Amen Kalyan was innovated by Hazrat Ameer Khusro?

    (Both of our computers at home don't play 'musicindiaonline' for reasons unknown. Please try to send the item through Dishant or Smashit)

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:46 #
  11. Musician

    Javed Sb
    This is how the story goes. Hazzrat Amir Khusro is also credited with Tabla and Sitar (seh-tar)
    I will try to overcome the website issue. Dishant? that is new to me. Will have a look. Any possioblity of having your email address?

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:52 #
  12. Anonymous

    Mr. Musician,

    Original raangs and raagnis were sung without words. There used to be no words, let alone poetry in classical. Later they introduced a sentence or word in their raags and would repeat one word or sentence in the act and then gradually poems and ghazals were introduced.

    I think both poetry and music can be discussed in one thread. No problems with that.

    Ameer Khusroo introduced Tabla and Sitar in their modern forms.

    Ameer Khusroo introduced Yaman. Dont think Amen Kalyaan was his innovation. He did introduce many other styles of singins. Most famous of them are khayal, ghazals and Qawwali.

    Khusroo neejaam kay ball ball jaoon!!

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 15:59 #
  13. Anonymous

    Hazrat Ameer Khusro innovated contemporary instruments into Tabla and Sitaar in their modern forms.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:01 #
  14. Musician

    bsObaid
    Yes, your are absolutely right. I was refrring more to the present.

    I am glad that you agree that both art forms can be discussed on this forum.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:25 #
  15. Anonymous

    chapp tilak sab cheeni re mosay nainaa milaee kay

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:29 #
  16. Musician

    javed Sb & bsObaid
    It is not the right time for this but I have this post for you which is one of my favouites, Todi. Notice how the break of dawn has been portrayed

    I hope the post works

    http://www.raaga.com/player4/?id=14030&mode=100&rand=0.7777149336156917

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:31 #
  17. Anonymous

    I love subah kay raag but I never wake up this early.. :( lol

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:32 #
  18. Anonymous

    iss ghairat-e-naheed kee hurr taan hai deepak
    shola sa lapak jaey hai awaz tou dekho

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:33 #
  19. Musician

    In that case this is the right time for you!!!

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:34 #
  20. Anonymous

    I think Anokha Laadla is also from Ameer Khusoo

    Anookha Laadla khaylan ko maangay chand ray
    kaisee anookhi baat re

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:37 #
  21. @ Musician,
    Wah! Subhan Allah!
    Bheegi Bheegi Bhor and the voice of singing machine Asha Bhonsley, Wah.
    Each Note is so perfect. Good find.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:42 #
  22. Musician

    JS
    I hope you would not mind but it is "Bheeni Bheeni" which makes it even more enjoyable.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 16:48 #
  23. Yes I spelled it wrong. Bheeni Bheeni means mild and smelling good.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 17:02 #
  24. Musician

    I am waiting a response to my email. I hope it has not gone to the Junk folder.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 17:40 #
  25. Respond was mailed almost 20 minutes before.
    Check your mail.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 17:47 #
  26. SufiSoul

    Rahim Shah Unplugged..

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 20:07 #
  27. Musician

    Thank you SufiSoul

    How about aother one?

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 20:32 #
  28. @Musician

    1. kawja Khursheed Anwar compiled and made Raag Mala consisting of ten Cassettes based on Ten(10) Thaats,following the foot step of Bhaat Khande the great Musicologist who classified all Raags and Raagnis into Thaat system.
    This Rag Mala was available on a Pakistani based website "sarangi.info".

    2.There have been very few songs composed on Raag Mian Ki Todi Khawja Khursheed Anwar produced a very famous melodic song based on this Raag

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 21:51 #
  29. @bsobaid

    There are thousands of Raags and Raagnis and are still being created by people till today.
    Many of them are centuries old and some are new
    Raag Bairagi Bhairov is an example. It is believed to have been composed by Ravi Shanker and has been used in one Pakistani famous ghazal sung and composed by Mehdi Hassan.

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 22:04 #
  30. Musician

    Bravo Peterpan

    jis din se piya ........ have been part of my mental libray for many many years but I never had the pleasure of seeing Noor jehan singing it live (almost). Thank you again for that. I do have Raag Mala which I acquired on one of my trips to Pakistan from Shalimar Recording company. It has been collectin dust and I must get back to it sometime.

    Again I have never seen Mehdi Hassan so young and this reflects in this rendering where he touches notes very clearly. Good. Was it Taari on table with him?

    Posted 5 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 23:33 #
  31. shikra

    Who ever initiated this idea of sher-o-shaery-o-naghma has done a great service to this forum and the members.
    All discussion was going so boring and tense that people were getting sick and angry to each other.
    But peotry and music is really attractive and without tension what most of the members would like to join and relax.
    I have found that Peterpan and Musician are very knowledgeable about the Science of Music.
    Would they guide me why most of the film songs are in Raag Bharvin and Darbari where most of the Ghazala are composed in Raaga Maulkons?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 1:59 #
  32. Anonymous

    baat karnee mujhay mushkil kabhi aisee tou naa thee
    jaisee ab hai teri mehfil kabhi aisee tou naa thee

    laygaya cheen kay koun aaj tera sabr-o-qarar
    bayqarari tujhay aey dil kabhi aisee tou naa thee

    oss kee aankhoon ne khuda janay kiaa kiaa jadoo
    kay tabiyat meri mael kabhi aisee tou naa thee

    chashm-e-qaatil meri dushmin thee hamaishaa laikin
    jaisee ab hogaee qatil kabhi aisee tou naa thee

    A golden master piece by young Khan Sahab Mehdi Hasan Khan Sahab aur Bahadur Shah Zafar ka kalam

    iss ghazal kay misra-e-oolaa mein "aisee" kay lafz kee adaeegee mein khan sahab kamal kaa surr uthaatay hein.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 2:22 #
  33. Anonymous

    wah maza aagaya bsobaid sahab. kiaa kamal kee ghazal hai. jeetay raheay.. ( haa haa haa)

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 2:26 #
  34. @Shikra Sahab

    "Would they guide me why most of the film songs are in Raag Bharvin and Darbari where most of the Ghazala are composed in Raaga Maulkons?"

    1.Raag Bhairvi consist of 7 sur (notes), but the beauty of this Raag is that other notes can also be included while composing any song or bandish.Also it can be sung any time.This Raag is one of the most popular Raag in composing Flim songs and folk music.

    2. Darbari is sort of a heavy weight Raag, and is rarely composed in a fast pace songs.Most of the songs composed in this Raag are medium to slow pace.This Raag has been widely used in composing Ghazals.

    Two very popular ghazals in Darbari
    Mehdi Hasan sing Parveen Shakir

    A very popular old Ghazal by S B John Sahab

    3.Malkauns consist of only five sur(notes).It is used mostly in classical,semi classical,and some songs.
    It is hardly used in Ghazal.

    A memorable Thumri by Ustad Amanat Ali Khan

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 5:47 #
  35. Salam

    Are these raags/music notes invented by Muslims of sub-continent or these have existed long before? Any information on history of these raags?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 6:05 #
  36. @JJ Khan Sahab

    Raags and Raagnis have been in use for centuries,and it is difficult for any one to say with certainty the history of most of them. Some Raagas currently used in Pakistan and Northern part of India are borrowed from Southern part of India which is called Carnatic Music.
    As for Muslim contribution to the Music,prior to their arrival there was Dhurpad and Dhammar ( Religious ) Chanting limited to Mandirs. Muslim brought or introduced Music to the public by Qawwali, Khyal Gayaki,and later on Thumri,Dadra,Ghazals .

    This interview of Khawja Khurshid Anwar might be of help to you.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 6:44 #
  37. Salam

    Nice!

    Thanks Peterpan.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 6:46 #
  38. Musician

    Peterpan

    Thank you for the post of Khurshid Anwar's interview. I have his Raag Mala. Now I can put a face to his voice and I am sure I will enjoy it even more.

    Also it was very good for your explain about the moods of Bharvi, Malkaus and Darbari.

    I think because of the knowlede you possess about the music, I have decided to confer the title of "Khan Shahib" on you and I hope that you will accept it without any fuss.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 8:51 #
  39. Dear Peterpan,
    Thanks for providing an up to date information about certain myths about Music.
    I was looking for the Song from S.B. John for the last so many years.
    A Music Library is incomplete without this old composition which after 50 years, still sounds fresh.
    Note its Antaras and the blend of AAsthai supported by melodious interludes of orchestra.
    I guess this song was composed by Mr. Robin Ghosh?
    Thanks for sharing this song.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 12:06 #
  40. I second the proposal made by Musician to confer the Title of
    'Khan Sahib' for Peterpan as a recognition of his vast knowledge at the subject.
    In future, I request that Paterpan should be addressed as
    'Khan Sahib Peterpan'.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 14:13 #
  41. Musician

    And who I am to disagree with that. If we do not received any objection from Other Music appreciating members within the next 10 minutes then the motion will be carried.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 14:28 #
  42. Musician

    @shikra
    @bsobaid
    @suficoul

    It is to advise you that "peterpan773" has been declared unapposed "Khan Sahib" of this Forum. He should be addessed as "Khan Sahib Peterpan" in all future postings marked for his attention.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 14:42 #
  43. As Khan Sahib Peterpan has been decorated with the Status, he deserves, I would like to make some more proposals.
    Keeping in view the services and contributions for the Forum,

    Dr. Khan Sahib should be awarded with the Title of:
    Nishan-i-Forum or Imtiaz-i-Forum

    Mr. Musician should be awarded with a Title of:
    Mishan-i-Mauseeqi or Imtiaz-i-Mauseeqi

    Moderators, Beena and Semirza should be awarded with Title of:
    Pasbaan-i-Forum

    If no objection or alternative is posted within 24 hours, the motion would be acknowledged as carried subject to the acceptance of receivers.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 16:40 #
  44. That would be an expression of acknowledgment for the feelings of respect for those who are serving this Forum through positive and non-profitable contributions.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:13 #
  45. Musician

    Javed Sb

    Your proposals are seconded.

    Where is Khan Shaib Peterpan?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:21 #
  46. Salam

    Then, I think you should also get a tile.

    How about Nishan-e-sher-o-naghma?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:21 #
  47. Salam

    And hold any title for Musician, he has to serve the forum for a while to earn anything. He is too young to get anything for now :)

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:23 #
  48. You have a valid point about the Seniority of a member.

    We can hold the Title of Nishan-i-Mauseeqi for the time being.
    I personally feel that being a controversial writer, I don't qualify for any Title at the Forum.

    I am thankful to those who tolerate my non sense.

    I am here to share my past and enjoy the final period of my future in a company of my own people.
    How is that?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:39 #
  49. Musician

    Javed Sb
    And if you want to enjoy the company of your own people then you should accept their will and accept the honour conferred on you BUT I would suggest the title as:

    Sitara -e-"Pehchan-e- Mosedqui"

    And I can assure you that your writings are not controversial. I have read them all.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 17:46 #
  50. Musician

    I revise my suggestion regarding the title for javedSheikh
    I recommend "Shan-e-Moseequi". This more accurately reflects his status.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 18:02 #
  51. Dear Musician,
    All the Titles awarded to the Celebrities at the Forum
    * Khan Sahib
    * Nishan-i-Mauseeqi
    * Pasban-i-Forum
    * Shan-i- Mausseqi
    * Pehchan-i-Forum
    * Nishan-i-Forum
    require an Official Validation and Notification from the Administration of the Pakpolitcis.
    We will have to wait for the final approval of the Administration.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 20:40 #
  52. Musician

    Agreed.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 20:55 #
  53. Musician

    Here is a composition in Darbai for you.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 21:07 #
  54. Unique

    This is wonderful. I have gone through it and enjoyed it. Well done guys. Also like the idea of Awards. It is fun.The information on music is mind blowing.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Nov 2009 23:14 #
  55. Anonymous

    I got some good information about music. Nice job by all the contributors.

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 2:34 #
  56. Here is a combination of Kaifi Azami, Khayyam, Talaat Mahmood and Asha Bhonsley.
    A perfect Sher and Naghma.
    A good composition from 1956.

    http://smashits.com/music/oldies/play/songs/8590/LALA-ROOKH/75252/PYAS-KUCHH-AUR-BHI-BHADKA-DI-1.html

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 2:58 #
  57. Ameer Khusro and Tabla

    James Kippen is a professor of Ethnomusicoloy at University of Toronto.He has conducted research on the history of Tabla.

    http://kippen.org/t_history.html

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 6:04 #
  58. Prof James Kippen's student Dr Lowell Lybarger lived in Pakistan and learned Tabla from Legendary Table player Ustad Mian Shaukat Hussain.

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 6:09 #
  59. Musician

    @javedSheikh
    Thank you. It took me back few years and as you said a good blend of sher-o-naghama.
    "husn ka pas nighaon to sikhana hoega"

    @Khan Sahib Peterpan
    History of Tabla was interesing and educationl. I liked the second posting especially the gestures with the bols. I felt the gestures put more meanings to the bols.

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 8:37 #
  60. SufiSoul

    I wonder when this thread has been diverted towards nominations..
    Pls stick to the topic keeping the thread on track..

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Nov 2009 9:45 #

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