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Shias vs Sunnis: Historical Prespective

(25 posts)
  1. shirazi
    Member

    History:

    Ali is the central figure at the origin of the Shia / Sunni split which occurred in the decades immediately following the death of the Prophet in 632. Sunnis regard Ali as the fourth and last of the "rightly guided caliphs" (successors to Mohammed (pbuh) as leader of the Muslims) following on from Abu Bakr 632-634, Umar 634-644 and Uthman 644-656. Shias feel that Ali should have been the first caliph and that the caliphate should pass down only to direct descendants of Mohammed (pbuh) via Ali and Fatima, They often refer to themselves as ahl al bayt or "people of the house" [of the prophet].

    When Uthman was murdered while at prayer, Ali finally succeeded to the caliphate. Ali was, however, opposed by Aisha, wife of the Prophet (pbuh) and daughter of Abu Bakr, who accused him of being lax in bringing Uthman's killers to justice. After Ali's army defeated Aisha's forces at the Battle of the Camel in 656, she apologized to Ali and was allowed to return to her home in Madinah where she withdrew from public life.

    However, Ali was not able to overcome the forces of Mu'awiya Ummayad, Uthman's cousin and governor of Damascus, who also refused to recognize him until Uthman's killers had been apprehended. At the Battle of Suffin Mu'awiya's soldiers stuck verses of the Quran onto the ends of their spears with the result that Ali's pious supporters refused to fight them. Ali was forced to seek a compromise with Mu'awiya, but this so shocked some of his die-hard supporters who regarded it as a betrayal that he was struck down by one of his own men in 661.

    Mu'awiya declared himself caliph. Ali's elder son Hassan accepted a pension in return for not pursuing his claim to the caliphate. He died within a year, allegedly poisoned. Ali's younger son Hussein agreed to put his claim to the caliphate on hold until Mu'awiya's death. However, when Mu'awiya finally died in 680, his son Yazid usurped the caliphate. Hussein led an army against Yazid but, hopelessly outnumbered, he and his men were slaughtered at the Battle of Karbala (in modern day Iraq). Hussein's infant son, Ali, survived so the line continued. Yazid formed the hereditary Ummayad dynasty. The division between the Shia and what came to be known as the Sunni was set.

    An opportunity for Muslim unity arose in the 750's CE. In 750 except for a few who managed to flee to Spain, almost the entire Ummayad aristocracy was wiped out following the Battle of Zab in Egypt in a revolt led by Abu Al Abbass al-Saffah and aided by considerable Shia support. It was envisaged that the Shia spiritual leader Jafar As-Siddiq, great-grandson of Hussein be installed as Caliph. But when Abbass died in 754, this arrangement had not yet been finalised and Abbas' son Al Mansur murdered Jafar, seized the caliphate for himself and founded the Baghdad-based Abbassid dynasty which prevailed until the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols in 1258.

    http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 14:51 #
  2. shirazi
    Member

    Theological Differences and Attempts at promoting Unity:

    The line of Mohammed (pbuh) through Ali and Hussein became extinct in 873CE when the last Shia Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, who had no brothers disappeared within days of inheriting the title at the age of four. The Shias refused, however, to accept that he had died, preferring to believe that he was merely "hidden" and would return. When after several centuries this failed to happen, spiritual power passed to the ulema, a council of twelve scholars who elected a supreme Imam. The best known modern example of the Shia supreme Imam is the late Ayyatollah Khomeni, whose portrait hangs in many Shia homes. The Shia Imam has come to be imbued with Pope-like infallibility and the Shia religious hierarchy is not dissimilar in structure and religious power to that of the Catholic Church within Christianity. Sunni Islam, in contrast, more closely resembles the myriad independent churches of American Protestantism. Sunnis do not have a formal clergy, just scholars and jurists, who may offer non-binding opinions. Shias believe that their supreme Imam is a fully spiritual guide, inheriting some of Muhammad's inspiration ("light") . Their imams are believed to be inerrant interpreters of law and tradition. Shia theology is distinguished by its glorification of Ali. In Shia Islam there is a strong theme of martyrdom and suffering, focusing on deaths of Ali and, particularly, Hussein plus other important figures in the Shia succession. Shi`ism attracted other dissenting groups, especially representatives of older non-Arab (Mawali) civilizations (Persian, Indian, etc.) that felt they had not been treated fairly by the Arab Muslims.

    Sunnis and Shias agree on the core fundamentals of Islam - the Five Pillars - and recognize each others as Muslims. In 1959 Sheikh Mahmood Shaltoot, Head of the School of Theology at Al Azhar university in Cairo, the most august seat of learning of Sunni Islam and the oldest university in the world, issued a fatwa (ruling) recognizing the legitimacy of the Jafari School of Law to which most Shias belong. As a point of interest, the Jafari School is named after its founder Imam Jafaf Sidiq who was a direct descendent through two different lines of the Sunni Caliph Abu Bakr. And Al Azhar University, though now Sunni, was actually founded by the Shia Fatimid dynasty in 969CE.

    However, there remain significant differences between the two forms of Islam and these are what tend to be emphasized. Many Sunni's would contend that Shias seem to take the fundamentals of Islam very much for granted, shunting them into the background and dwelling on the martyrdoms of Ali and Hussein. This is best illustrated at Ashura when each evening over a period of ten days the Shias commemorate the Battle of Karbala, with a wailing Imam whipping the congregation up into a frenzy of tears and chest beating. It is alleged that instead of missionary work to non-Muslims, the Shia harbor a deep-seated disdain towards Sunni Islam and prefer to devote their attention to winning over other Muslims to their group. There is ongoing violent strife between Sunnis and Shias in Pakistan. On the other hand, in recent years there has been signification co-operation between the two groups in the Lebanon. And some of the most dynamic developments in Islam today are taking place in Shia-dominated Iran.

    Practical Differences:

    On a practical daily level, Shias have a different call to prayer, they perform wudu and salat differently including placing the forehead onto a piece of hardened clay from Karbala, not directly onto the prayer mat when prostrating. They also tend to combine prayers, sometimes worshipping three times per day instead of five. The Shias also have some different ahadith and prefer those narrated by Ali and Fatima to those related by other companions of the Prophet (pbuh). Because of her opposition to Ali, those narrated by Aisha count among the least favored. Shia Islam also permits muttah - fixed-term temporary marriage - which is now banned by the Sunnis. Muttah was originally permitted at the time of the Prophet (pbuh) and is now being promoted in Iran by an unlikely alliance of conservative clerics and feminists, the latter group seeking to downplay the obsession with female virginity which is prevalent in both forms of Islam, pointing out that only one of the Prophet's thirteen wives was a virgin when he married them.

    Shias Today:

    Iran is overwhelmingly Shia - 89%. Shias also form a majority of the population in Yemen and Azerbaijan, Bahrain and 60% of the population of Iraq. There are also sizeable Shia communities along the east coast of Saudi Arabia and in the Lebanon. The well known guerilla organization Hizbollah, which forced the Israelis out of southern Lebanon in 2000, is Shia. Worldwide, Shias constitute ten to fifteen percent of the overall Muslim population.

    Within Shia Islam there are different sects. Most Shias are "Twelvers", i.e. they recognize the 12 Imams. There are also Sevener and Fiver Shias who don't recognize the later Imams.

    http://www.islamfortoday.com/shia.htm

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 14:53 #
  3. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The levels of tolerance between the Sunnis and Shias have been variable from time to time and place to place. In the present era, a good sense of tolerance is demonstrated in Yemen between Zaidi Shias and Sunnis. They offer Ba Jamat prayers behind each other. That is seen commonly in Yemen. The relationship between Shais and Sunnis was not bad even in Pakistan before the revolution of Iran.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 14:57 #
  4. toamin
    member

    Difference is more on political authority that led to difference in jurisprudence as well-

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:16 #
  5. The relationship between Shais and Sunnis was not bad even in Pakistan before the revolution of Iran.

    I disagree, it all started under Amir ul Momineen Hazrat Maulana Mohammad Zia Ul Haq Shaheed e Kamil, oh what a man he was, how much did he contribuite to our country? Only Devil's contribution to humanity surpasses his constributions!!!

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:20 #
  6. shirazi
    Member

    For some reason I thought both Imam Hassan and Hussein died in Karbala but according to above article Imam Hassan was poisoned in 661 almost 20 years before Karbala. The other thing I didn't know that Hazrat Ali was killed by one of his own for conceding little too much to Ameer Mahvia, the cousin of Usman and Governor of Damascus.

    One thing I was aware of and that is also highlighted here the differences between Shias and Sunnis are basically political not religious.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:25 #
  7. toamin
    member

    dell

    iranian revolution came when zia was in power, no?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:27 #
  8. Yes, it did (1979). But blaming Shia-sunni troubles in Pak on Iranian Revolution is ludicrous.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:48 #
  9. Shirazi Sb.

    To sum it all up, this whole rift started with the murder of Usman RA. Initially, it was just a tribal animosity that rose it's ugly head after the demise of Rasool SAW and later grew in to a full fledged war and two sect were created!!

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 15:52 #
  10. shirazi
    Member

    @Dell

    I think it started little earlier than that. Shiaan e Ali blames Abu Bakkar and co. that as soon as Prophet(pbuh) passed away they started deliberations(to say it mildly) on who will lead the state while Ali and his Friends as part of prophet's family were busy in burial related activities for three days. By the time they were done decision had already been made about the successor. Otherwise they claim Ali could have been and should have been first Calipah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 16:51 #
  11. liv_2_die
    Member

    "Allah ki rassi ko mazbuti se thamey rakho aur apas mein tafarqey mein mut paro" -> Quran

    do we need to say a word more ???

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 16:59 #
  12. bsobaid
    Member

    Sorry, I dont like this thread.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:01 #
  13. Shirazi Sb.

    Yes, I agree as I said it started right after the demise of Prophet SAW when tribalism rose it's nasty head. Certain people favoured Ali RA because he was family member of Prophet SAW. But overwhelming majority favoured a righteous and the most suitable person which was Abu Bakr RA and the fact Ali RA accepted him is enough proof that this was the right decision.

    This conflict was sort of suppressed until the assasination of Usman RA by "nefarious elements". That's when this conflict got bloody and infact Aisha RA and Ali RA went to war over this issue and sadly a huge number of Muslims were killed by each other in this battle.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:10 #
  14. shirazi
    Member

    @dell

    And that blood bath is still on. Perhaps Arab Peninsula needs Ch. Shujahat "mati paow roti khao", let begones be bygones.

    @bsobaid

    Whats uncomfortable about this thread?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:20 #
  15. bsobaid
    Member

    This thread is related to religion and I dont like politics religion mix.

    Secondly, shia sunni differences have remained for a long time and they will continue to remain. It is best if we move on and accept the differences. Discussing shia sunni religious differences will not change anything except stirring parwanay emotions.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:24 #
  16. shirazi
    Member

    @bsobaid

    Very valid point. I also like to keep two separate. But if you notice it's not discussing the spiritual side much the major focus is political side from origin to how it evolve. All the blood bath that we see now is a result of making this purely political issue religious. To undo we have to bring up political side again and then step back. If it remains religious as it is emotions will fly high and things will keep on moving in wrong direction.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:34 #
  17. zenith
    Member

    @ shirazi

    I agree there is nothing wrong in understanding differences; however, it should be looked upon as historical facts and not as issues. When they become issues, there is dispute.

    I agree with Obaid that lets agree on the fundamentals of Islam and leave aside different versions of various muslim scholars and move on.

    We should be talking of economic and management issues. Religious disputes create trouble.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 17:45 #
  18. shirazi
    Member

    @zenith

    My contention is Shia-Suni is political dispute not religious. Why it should be left to religious scholars?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:09 #
  19. Please do some research about Abdullah bin Saba. He was a jew and pretended to be muslim convert. He was behind all these infights in Jang Jamal and later on. Hazrat Zubair and Hazrat Talha two Sahab from Ashra Mubashira were killed by these jews when they took initiative to stop battle between Hazrat Ali and Amma Aisha R.A.

    We should be careful to trust the information provided on different websites about Islam. Many websites are run by anti muslims lobbies to provide wrong information to youth.

    Thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:25 #
  20. "Abdullah Bin Sabbah" is not a very trusted "theory". Blaming jews for our own internal rifts? old habits die hard.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:32 #
  21. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    dell

    Can you deny that Khomeni announced the export of his revolution to the other Muslim countries?

    Can you deny that the first Shia-Sunni riot occurred after the Iranian revolution in Liaquatabad Karachi in presence of the Iranian Consul General?

    Can you deny that the Iranis tried to trouble the people at the time of Haj when the Saudi forces open fire?

    Remember Brother, Iran is not giving the rights to Shias the way Israel is giving rights to the Jews. When a Jew loves Israel, it is logical, because the nationality offer of Israel is open to all the Jews. Iran has no open doors for Shias.

    It is in the favour of the Pakistani Shias to think about Pakistan instead of Iran.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:44 #
  22. bsobaid
    Member

    As I mentioned earlier, I dont like this thread with no offence to Shirazi and secondly the shia shunni divide would'nt be this wide if there was democracy in Mid East and Iran.

    Dont mention Pakistan. Pakistani establishment loves to be the battle ground of proxy wars. This is why I hate proxy wars because none of the parties care about dying awam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:48 #
  23. Please read the following link.

    I know we sometime blame jews wrongly but it is a fact that they were and they are behind our most of the problems. One can not reject a historical fact just because of propaganda. There should be sound knowledge about history and strong argument to reject a hostorical facts like Abdullah bin Saba.

    http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/shia_history.htm

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 18:51 #
  24. bsobaid
    Member

    Religious difference remains between religions and inside religions and they remain dormant unless someone wants to exploit them for their gain.
    Christain-Jews have differences but they largely remain peacefully in Europe now.
    Shia-Sunni have differences but they also largely co-existed peacefully in undivided India. Same goes for sikj-Muslim and Hindu-Muslim.

    The more we dig the bigger differences we will find but the key is to move and accept them.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Mar 2011 19:10 #
  25. raheb
    Member

    There is NO shia or sunni in Islam....so no need to spend time and discuss such a non-sense which do not named in Islam.

    raheb

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Mar 2011 22:22 #

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