expakistani
Member
Lately i am seeing lot threads and posting about establishment but cant find one which provide some kind of "fix" to this issue.
In my opinion Only if we have strong political leader with clean past and support of "awam" can get rid of strong arm establishment. ( beside this i dont have any good idea myself!!! )
Any idea how to fix this problem?
insaftak
Member
only good performance by civilians can control the establishment. Don't expect to put a leash on establishment by giving sh!tty Performance like PPP or PML(N).
haroon76
Member
hanging Musharaf, Zia, Niazi, Yahyah, Ayub & Judges and their allies who gave indemnity to these bloody Generals & Support these Generals, if army stand against it than i will ask for a blood revolution. establishment always says, yeah siyasatdaan khud humaray pass ataay hain madaad kay liyeah, tou bhai app unhain bolain kay under the constitution of Pakistan, we are obliged to listen to CE of Pakistan (PM), agar inhaain mulk say itnee hee mohabaat hay tou yeah log unn siyasatdanoon koo expose kion nahe kartay?
haraam aur khoon laga hay inn Generals kay mou koo.
expakistani
Member
@Haroon-ur-Rashid
So bhai how come you didnt put name of NS, SS and Chudary brothers in your wish list to hang? Those who use army and ISI for their own agenda..
bsobaid
Member
"In my opinion Only if we have strong political leader with clean past and support of "awam" can get rid of strong arm establishment"
That wont work.
Establishment have enough ghulams to turn day into night and night into day.
One way is more confrontationist in which you do long march to Pindi and Abpara and pass a resolution in assembly to take all the powers away from jurnails and make defence committee of parliament responsible for all general level decision-making including acquisitions and troop movements.
Second less confrontationist way is to use help from baaps of establishment sitting in pentagon to reign in establishment. Something similar to Kerry Lugar bill.
insaftak
Member
@Bsobaid
I don't think your view is possible given our security situation right now with enemies on all sides unless you are suggesting that we go with the Libyan Formula.
That won't be good for anyone.
bsobaid
Member
I also think option 2 is much better.
Do kep in mind our bigger dushman is khaoo peoo party jinn kee aqal tukhnay mein hoti hai.
hypocrite
Member
Obaid bhai
Would thins second option create another monster which will be difficult to control in the long run.
Why cant politicians unite on this issue and dont play games against each other. If politicians take a stand, people will support them and then we dont need to create another monster to defeat existing smaller monster.
expakistani
Member
@bsobaid
confrontation end up with "chaos" Qazi Hussain Ahemd ka Dharna to hum kafi ker chokey hain. Har bar establishment hi jeti hey.
If you ask for help from pentagon then immediately they will ask your help in some urgent issues such as nuke control or help in Afghanistan
how you going to deal with them?
that why Parliament seems best way to go, and to Pass any Bill you need political will and public support...
Bawa
Member
@ expakistani
آپکا کوئی پیغام نہیں ملا
expakistani
Member
@bawa...
yaar yeah aap urdu fonts main kesey type kertey ho, i like it, koi website ho jahan se aap ney hunar sekha ho to batao.
Thanks
d0ct0r
Member
expakistani
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/how-to-type-in-urdu-script
Drag that "type in urdu" bookmarklet from that page to your bookmark toolbar.
secularists
Member
let the government complete its term and have new elections followed by installation of government. Establishment would be dealt with.
bsobaid
Member
Sir,
You dont necessarily have to return favor.
In current situation, it is in amreeka's interest to help democratic institution.
Getting public support and uniting against establishment si not possible. When political parties do unite against establishment, the establishment creates an IJI and PTI.
As I said, these siasi duffers, khaoo peoo party know how to turn day into night and night into day and conquer their own nation while getting humiliating defeats from outside forces. naa larnay jogay naa marnay jogay
expakistani
Member
@thanks doctor sahib... but look like bawa use some better software to type urdu fonts. but bata nhi rhey hain.
@bsobaid
how about arm struggle against establishment and corruption, is it option in Pakistan ?
khanseena1
Member
Have civillians run ISI/ IB and all other intelligence agencies of Pakistan.
sipahi
Member
Why you need to stop establishment?
All you need to do is to set up mechanisms to apply article 62 & 63 on all who are part of goverment. Then, establishment will be working for people of Pakistan.
haroon76
Member
expakistani: aik bandha app kee cheez chura kay bhagay aur dosra app kee izat chura kay bhagay tou app pehlay kisay pakrain gaay?
meray mulk kee izat jitnee in jarnailoon naay utaree hay utnee saray siyastadanoon nau mil kay b nahe utaree.
meray mulk kaay siyasatdaan choor hoo saktay hain, izat baychnay walay nahee.
bsobaid
Member
@ex,
Iam against armed struggle and violence.
Khaoo peoo bobby dhamal party know how to conquer its own nation but they are siasi duffers.
ali-pk
Member
democracy is neither a sacred cow nor a divine form of government -- it amazes the level to which our people worship democracy -
Performance is what matters .
Sharif Aadmi
Member
ali-pk
permforance of whom ?
BAHDUR FAUJ , performance of 48, 65,71, 84 or 98 ? Which performance u r talking of ?
To me only solution is disbanding army. We don't need this blood scuker .
Ghost Protocol
Member
Civilian leadership have to take bold stance
ali-pk
Member
@Sharif Bhai
my problem is that i do not worship democracy -- i am not a dumb cow who follows zaradris gilanis sharifs blindly.
this was obvious- performance of the so called "democratically elected baboons" --- once you deliver, nobody will overthrow you- simple!
disbanding army -- am i smelling "aman kis asha" here??
Ghost Protocol
Member
@Ali-pk, equating democracy with zardari/gilani/sharifs is not the best interpretation and judgement of democracy. Its like equating education with Rana Sanullah.
I too dont favour dismantling Army however, some mechanism need to be found out to restrict Army to its constitutional role.
In presence of spineless judiciary, the Establishment is very much needed to keep check and balance on an elected, civilian government running haywire.
khanseena1
Member
And who will keep a check on army running haywire?
Sharif Aadmi
Member
ali-pk
Whats about Ayub , Yahya , Zia and Mush ? Out of last 53 years, 34 years went to these HOLY ANGELS ? Do i need to remind u their performance ?
Was it democracy in all those years ? And when so-called loooli langri democracy was allowed, it was hampered by creation of IJI or PIF or Q Leauge.
Which performance u speak of ?/
sultanalikhan
Member
To stop establishment take over or prevent martial law to raise its ugly head on the political scene of pakistan, there is only one way to do it, that is, democratic government must perform in real terms, in a way that is seen and felt by people from all walks of life....mere rhetoric on democracy and its benefits will never bring people to the point where they will stand against any despotic, tyrannical, and illegal take over....
Performance by a democratic govt will automatically inspire people to stand up against any unlawful act and protect democracy with their lives!!!
pak1stani
Blocked
By bring leader ship who has some brains in their upper parts instead of bhusa.
My answer is: all parties should form an alliance against army Establishment, cut their huge military budget which is mostly spend on lavish lifestyle of officers.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
You need a "collective" or "group" of "men of" "good" "credibility" to "control" "establishment".
"Group" of "Men of good credibility" means, you need a group of men who adhere to DEEN-ALLAH.
Islam gives the "definition" of "good credibility".
sultanalikhan
Member
@SweetTruth.....those are extreme views that you put on, army expenditures and eating up of main budget are one extreme, wheras your suggestion displays other side of extreme......we must find a middle ground for reining in army and all other unlawful forces within Pakistan......
But before anything happens on that front, civilian govts must perform to establish public confidence in democracy and rule of law.....without people support no constructive event can gets done...
ali-pk
Member
@sharif Aadmi
yar thori si toa sharafat dekhao --- everybody knows that in terms of economy, Musharraf gov was better than current gov and Ayub's better than bhuttos.
Waisey bhi hamarey pyarey Pm ek zamaney meyn Army ki goad meyn baitha kartay thay aur Ayub ko daddy meyn nahin Aap kay bhutto sahab kaha kartey thay-
Pakistani84
Blocked
Only through good performance of the civil government can establishment be controlled. Example is Turkey.
pacemaker
Member
So how to put stop on Establishment
croooks free, corrupt free govt, conflict of interest free leader,
sipahi
Member
Apply Article 6 to GM.
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