SO you still want ‘Shamocracy & Free- doom’?

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SO you still want ‘Shamocracy & Free- doom’?

(48 posts)

Revivalist
member

The situation of pakistan is getting ‘kharab se kharab tar’, Bomb blasts, corruption, absence of governance, absence of any policy, scandals, killing of our own people, leadership vacuum, ever widening gap between rulers and ruled, Morally and intellectually corrupt people sitting on the ruling chairs, floor crises, sugar crises, Black water roaming around in the capital etc etc etc. No so called ‘mainstream’ political party has any solution to the mentioned problems as for as I know!!!

I want to ask, DO YOU STILL WANT SHAMOCRACY & FREE-DOOM OR DO WE NEED AN IDEOLOGICAL CHANGE? A change that will shift the paradigm from being a subservient state to a strong and independent state having its own rules and regulation derived from a specific reference point!!!!

Please comment!!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 6:31 #
amin1924
member

People will never get democracy, they will always be oppressed through secret deals between elite class. This is just a mirage to drive the donkey as much as possible.

No one wants to give up power to people so I think this question of selecting democracy is not valid because people are living under dictators, some come from military and some from pre-planned 'parchi'.

British handed over power to elite class and they have developed understanding between themselves to keep the power within this class.

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 6:49 #
Revivalist
member

That’s why it is called as Elitocracy.... It provides a good opportunity to the capitalists to maximize their power as well as wealth, therefore when Hamayon Akhtar khan was asked in Jawabdeh by Iftikhar Ahmed "How much do you spend in elections" The response was " depends on how much your opponent spends"... So it is in fact a power struggle between two elites who just want to grab power so that to get a seat that makes him above the law. They are not atoll spending millions to serve his constituencies and the people of pakistan!!! Hence democracy is hypocrisy and is in fact a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 7:02 #
Sirf Pakistani
Member

next time we'll vote 4 HT!
AB KHUSH

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 7:42 #
choosy
Member

next time election mein tu mein khara ho raha hun...
kon kon vote karay ga mujhay ?
mujh ko bhi palace banany ka shuaq hay .

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 8:07 #
amin1924
member

وہ سحر جس سے لرزتا ہے شبستانِ وجود
ہوتی ہے بندۂ مومن کی اذاں سے پیدا

(Iqbal)

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 8:10 #
zia m
Member

DO YOU STILL WANT SHAMOCRACY & FREE-DOOM?

No we want Theocracy and Slavery.

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 8:28 #
sasherwani
Members

I'd vote for 'choosy' over HT

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 9:19 #
Revivalist
member

Thanks but FYI we don’t believe in Shamocracy and consider it contrary to Islam there for we would require bayat on Quran and Sunnah. I don’t know how many of you are willing to give bayah on the condition of implanting Quran and Sunnah???

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 10:10 #
choosy
Member

sasherwani ,
thanks for voting me ....
i will give u a plot in Blue area Islamabad ...inshallah

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 11:37 #
Oriel
Member

Bro Revivalist I think your initiated thread has answered your question;

..."how many of you are willing to give bayah on the condition of implanting Quran and Sunnah?"...

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 22:27 #
javedsheikh
Members

.."how many of you are willing to give bayah on the condition of implanting Quran and Sunnah?"...

Nation is not ready, yet to digest a doze of high potency.

Children brought up on Formula Milk would hardly digest the Full Cream Pure Milk.
They will start throwing up and might get Diarrhea.

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 22:40 #
Oriel
Member

Yes JS Sahib, agreed that this is the case today.

However, if we are serious about Shariah implementation in Pak we need to:

*teach FULL Islam from primary through to pHD (FULL means Quran, Sunnah, Hadees, Fiqh, Islamic history, contemporary history, world history)

*we need to crack down on Zia's Madrassahs and close the puritanical-baby incubators

*make sure all educational establishments are teaching religion and worldy education for the betterment of Pak society rather than as a means to gain power via the barrel of a gun.

Side by side with Shariah we would need to work on pragmatic steps for nation-building such as:

*CLEAN govt
*CLEAN judiciary
*CLEAN law enforcement.

*taxing the rich, industrialists, business sector for revenue

*subsidising the agri-sector and aiding the farmers to produce max. yield

*pumping rupees into education and health

*slashing spending on the armed forces

*inter-regional pacts with India, Sri-Lanka, Afghanistan NATO-style, that aggression upon one will mean panga with all, hence defense-pacts of peace.

*allowing freedom of press to run along side state-owned media outlets to encourage broad-based availibility of information.

I am sure the members would add to the above suggestions and would be welcome to do so.

Although, at this moment in time, the fabric of Pakistan imo would bolt at Shariah implementation and harshly rebel against it.

Posted 2 years ago on 12 Nov 2009 23:19 #
shahzad1924
member

@ above

all of this will be possible once the shariah is implemented. if all of this could happen by itself, then whats the point in implementing the shariah in the first place?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Nov 2009 2:53 #
amin1924
member

In addition to Shahzad.

Regarding:

Children brought up on Formula Milk would hardly digest the Full Cream Pure Milk.

Formula milk is very expensive and good alternate for mother feeding. Reality here is that child is on deathbed because of lack of all nutritions.

Had the child been given Formula Milk he would be jumping and competing with rest of child, but what we see is that child is in dire need of nutritions and at this grown up stage only pure 'Full Cream Milk' can help.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Nov 2009 3:01 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

The baby has ALWAYS been ready for milk. Its just that he doesn't like milk. He wants bear! instead.

Which means, time for Pakistan is at an end.

ALL this talk of baby not being ready is worthless BS!

If you'r still not ready for RULE of ALLAH ALMIGHTY's given laws, then it means, either you have to be kicked out of Pakistan or time for Pakistan ends here :-)

How do I say that ? Because I see the vultures circling.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Nov 2009 6:05 #
sasherwani
Members

@ Haris,

Why would a baby eat a bear over milk?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 14:42 #
toamin
member

lolz!

Come on, he meant beer :-)

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 15:07 #
truepakistani
Member

islam was introduced and came into existance on 14th August 1947.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:35 #
truepakistani
Member

before 14th August 1947, all muslims were actually Kafirs in India,

with existance of pakistan we became muslims.

for god sack..........

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:36 #
Migel9
Member

Democry and freedumb as priscribed by our LORD OF THE SATANIC RING AMEREEKAAA.We have to accept this system,According to jesus of texas.5% of US population controls more wealth then the entire 95% american population.

The white anglo saxon invented this democry based on usury and talmudic laws for us muslims my people.Lol

Revivalist asusual you are on the right path..

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:42 #
truepakistani
Member

what do you means that islam favours monarchy, kingdom, rule of one royal family, dictatorship etc.?

Thats why all religous fundamentalists/terrorsts like dictatorships, monarchy, hypocracy etc.

mulla never likes democracy, modern education, development and respectable status in world.

Mulla likes stone ages, illetracy and opression of women in the name of Islam.

islamic system is very near to democracy and opposes one family rule.

If one family rule/monarchy was permitted by islam why did we oppose yazeed ?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:50 #
truepakistani
Member

by the way, present civilian system in pakistan is not true democracy.

It is shamocracy yes. I agree.

the state having its head zardari must be called shamocracy.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:53 #
Migel9
Member

Indian women being burn alive today for not having enough DOWRY T??Why is that??

Mullah like stone ages,illetracy??what r u smoking T?
Name one MULLAH please.Stop taking diction from the american
Embassy..ok..

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:57 #
truepakistani
Member

even you can find a number of incidents of burning women alive due to absence of dowery.

it is a fashio of the day to critise America.

You can not play jehad without American aid.

you can not run the madrissa without foreign aid.

And speaking about revival of islam by bus/lift operators.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 21:01 #
Migel9
Member

Again..Why do Hindustani eat rats in rajistan??Why worship a cow?Islam NEVER LEFT, it is the criminal puppet elite,left for jewish dollars.

Maddarisa like CHRISTIAN ONLY SCHOOL IN INDIA AMEREEKAA,UK
ASSTROOLIA.
Revival of islam the muslims UMMAH..Nothing wrong with bus/lift operators..Untouchables..??

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 21:09 #
toamin
member

This what happens when we lose our true identity, we become lost:

For TP comment above regarding poor bus/lift operators, I like to remind him about the famous dialog between Hercules & Abu Sufyan:

"Are the people who have accepted his religion poor or rich?", asked Hercules. They are poor", replied Abu Sufyan.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 5:28 #
truepakistani
Member

it never means that lift/bus drivers are not good muslims or good humans.

I wanted to point out the taliban leaders in swat & waziristn some years back were bus driver and lift operator like Mangal bagh the head of lashker.

These type of talibans are black and negative face of muslims.

In the initial stage of islam, Mohammad PBUH never organised taliban type groups, poor and depressed people converted to islam but never taken any agressive step against muslims or non muslims.

All the initial wars like JUNGE BADR, JUNGE UHAD, JUNGE KHANDAQ ETC. all were defensive nature not of agressive nature and killing muslims or even kafirs.

taliban type islam is a new version of historical invaders and looters of Hindu temples. Its not a service to islam rather ruining themselves.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 8:24 #
toamin
member

'True' Pakistani,

You are just repeating what govt has been doing to gain public support in favor of operations on civilians. No need to repeat same rhetorically if you don't have any facts or evidences on ground reality.

You are showing lack of knowledge on initial stage of Islam, I suggest you to go and study Ghazwa-e-Badder in more depth and tell us regional developments that lead to that ghazwa. It was not a defensive maneuver by any military means.

There is no such thing as taliban islam or zardari's Islam. Islam is open truth available for all Muslims. Any action/evidence from Islam can be studied/verified.

All I see is that you are just repeating Zardari's propaganda while suppressing real motives and plans behind actions.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 9:55 #
truepakistani
Member

what military dictators have done with pakistan since last 60 years,

same way Mullas have done with Islam & Shariah.

I am Muslim but confused to follow which one from the followings;

deaobandi ?

bralvi ?

ahle Hadith ?

Wahabi ?

shia ?

Hanbli, shafie, maliki , Hanfi ? 12 Imams ?

please guide me, and never take my purpose negative.

which version is the best/latest to follow ?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 16:50 #
shahzad1924
member

whats the confusion?

does deobandi tell you not to pray 5 times?
does barelvi tell you to deal with riba?
does ahle hadith tell you to commit zina?
does wahabi tell you to not go for hajj?
does shia tell you to take from the orphans?

they all say the same thing. they all preach the same deen. its only minor differences in the details, which is allowed in Islam. dont make a fuss about it.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 17:55 #
javedsheikh
Members

It is not as simple as you think and feel.

I was born to Deobandi parents who were also known as Wahabis in our Mohallah.

During schooldays I got liking for Brelvi School of Thought as my favorite teacher was a Brelvi.

During my college days, being fond of music I got inclined towards Shia School of thought as they were liberal about Music.
In University I got victim of Jamaat-i-Islami due to my friendship with (Late) Barak Ullah Khan.

I also read about Ghulam Ahmad Pervez and Qadyani literature but could not get fully convinced.

During my first job as Family Planning Officer, I got totally confused, where I was threatened by the opponents of Ayub Khan.
During rest of my service I had to face the same conflict
One thing was common during all the above-mentioned period where I constantly faced the title of Kafir.

Finally, I got shelter at a place where people don't ask about my race, religion, caste and creed.

This is the story of majority of Pakistanis.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 18:52 #
zia m
Member

@truepakistani
Large majority of Pakistani Muslims are moderate peace loving people.It is only small minority of Wahabi and Deobandis are militants who preach hate and intolerance.This small minority is most vocal.It is time for the silent majority to speak up against the voices of intolerance and stop this cancer before it kills our society.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Nov 2009 19:00 #
shahzad1924
member

@JS - "One thing was common during all the above-mentioned period where I constantly faced the title of Kafir."

so, thats your criterion for right and wrong?

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 3:06 #
truepakistani
Member

all the above mentioned religous sects have one thing common, they declare other sect a KAFIR.

Now, I got my answer and there is no more confusion that is: all are speaking truth about each other.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 5:44 #
Beenai
Moderator

i have noticed that this debate has taken a very dangerous turning of sectarian differences and debate over different sect's beliefs ....
which can result in hurting members belonging to any of the sect beliefs ,which are under discussion.

plz stay away from sectarian debate .
thanks

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 5:54 #
toamin
member

I don't see this theory in society. We work with all sorts of people and don't find any friction or trouble?

I don't know what a member above was doing as Family Planning Officer that he was awarded with a title that is rarely applied.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 5:54 #
truepakistani
Member

@moderator!

Eduated and sensable class in pakistan need organised to point out the evils of our society openly.

These evils may be infilytrated in our society in form of different faces.

its time to finger them out.

We should negate all these negative elements and struggle to make Pakistan a peaceful social state, free of all extremists, free of all foreign agents in any form/face.

Criticising mulla, sects, terror groups/elements either they are present in religous parties, or in political parties, or in establishment, everone acting against pakistan national interest is our enemy.

No one is sacret cow.

We love our country, and we will keep on criticising evils of our society, no matter these evils are in shape of mulla , taliban, army dictator or corrupt politician.

Its our national interest to oppose all these evils.

The day we will stop critising these evils , we will become a dead nation.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 6:26 #
sasherwani
Members

I wish we all could just learn to live peacefully. Stop calling each other kaafirs. I wish we try to do good to ourselves and to the people around us. Have respect for people belonging to other school's of thought and beliefs. I wish we would earn an honest living and pass the lesson of education and tolerance to our next generation.

But it will never happen in Pakistan. I see people declaring each other kaafir even on this forum. I see people calling our cricket captain 'manhoos' because he wore shorts during an interview. I see people calling Harvard graduates idiots instead of admiring their accomplishments. I see people idiolizing Mullah Omar on this forum. Its disappointing but its real.

I dont think Pakistan's future is bright yet I will love it forever.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 6:26 #
Beenai
Moderator

@truepakistani ,
i hope ,that could be the case...
that we openly can debate on sensitive issues like sects and cults ...but time has not come yet ...unfortunately ...we are not that open heart and open minded yet to accept or even listen to what ideological opponents are saying .
tolerance is what ,has become a rare commodity in the society .
so we have to avoid it ...
until ,we get that liberal to accept ideological opponents with open heart and open mind .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 6:43 #
usayd
Member

@ Beenai

Actually sectarianism has become an excuse in secular societies not to discuss religion... they say that discussing religion provokes voilence so they have ignored it all together...
Actually westren secular societies had a bitter experience with the religion in past.
But this doesn't necesarrily apply to our society. Because in our society the religion is the soul source of unity and it is from where all our matters are administered. Although our religion has been confined in a secular framework by the current sysytem...

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 9:12 #
Beenai
Moderator

tolerance is the key .
which is missing in our society .

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 9:18 #
toamin
member

How to achieve tolerance while govt is busy in depriving people of basic human needs?

They are adding more fuel to anger, not tolerance.

Regarding sectarian theory, Usayd is right.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 9:21 #
javedsheikh
Members

My Motto's:

"If one cannot create a good Muslim, should not create a bad Kaafir.'

'Life without freedom is like a body without spirit.'

'Only dead fish goes with the flow'.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 10:40 #
toamin
member

Nice words, but carry little weight when uttered out of context.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 10:48 #
javedsheikh
Members

Anything from JS becomes weightless @ Pkpolitics, I know.

I am glad at least you liked the words.
(Poster is not important.)

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 10:55 #
toamin
member

No, not anything.

Only something, for example your knowledge on indian music can not be challenged :)

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 10:59 #
semirza
Moderator

@JJ Khan
Kafir should be confused with a Muslim! Not at all. And why we should not watch out for what is being said and by whom! Content and Intent (text) both are important. Mitti key but to ba'at nahin kertey our sab insa'an aik sey naheen hotey therefore...kis nain keya kaha our kyoun..yeh zaroori h o jata hai.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Nov 2009 14:21 #