PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Steve Jobs
(106 posts)-
home
MemberPosted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 2:51 # -
bsobaid
MemberVery sad.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 2:52 # -
Dusky
MemberYep, In deed. End of an era.
Would be interesting to see how Apple will survive without Steve Jobs.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 2:57 # -
home
MemberApple will be fine at least in coming few years but it will never be a company that Steve wanted it to be, first Trillion $$$ company. Steve could take it to $350 Billion, if he had another 15-20 years he could have achieved that.
The best commercial perhaps ever made, 1984 Macintosh commercial aired during Super Ball half time ....
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 3:18 # -
home
MemberPosted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 3:24 # -
home
MemberPosted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 4:00 # -
home
MemberiSad
:(
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 4:01 # -
Words of wisdom from an unlikely source. Let this be our tribute to him:
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma - which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary."
Steve Jobs on life
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 15:09 # -
Salute to this Icon....will always be remember for the services he done in his field...
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 16:25 # -
expakistani
Memberbrought creativity and art in IT
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 16:43 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberMG,
OK. Words of wisdom from Corporate America makes headlines. Some are shedding tears for a corporate guy whose sole ambition was profit as he was above all a businessman marketing high tech gadgets.
We don't need to look at Steve or Bob or John. We have Quran and Hadith reminding us since 1400 years about inevitable death. What Steve's quote omits is mention of hereafer which they cannot fathom. His life was centered on everything from iPhone to iDeath but missed the real meaning of life itself. It reminds me of Allama Iqbal
Dhondne wala sitaroun(replace this with IP world) ki guzargahoun ka
Apni afkaar ki duniya ka safar kar na saka
The one who is trying to explore the path of stars
is unable to fathom the inner delicacies of life withinPosted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 16:57 # -
@Abdul Rahman
What's wrong in appreciating the work and effort by both the types like "Al-Khwarzimi","AL-Haitham" and at the same time some "Steve" "Bob" "Jhon"?....dont be a typical!
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:06 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberRhyme, Most of the Islamic pioneers were firm Believers before being Scientists. And they were not indulged in corporate greed like today.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:15 # -
Mr Abdul Rehman,Do we have any Classic or Exellent Example of Islamic Society today that we got to expect and wish every person on this earth whether he is muslim or not to quit following unislamic ways?.....even Saudies and the hypocrite Kings of Saudi Land are using and enjoying all the latest technologies invented by ppl like Steve Jobs etc....Do we have any option? now i or many other ppl today cant use old system of conversation and communication through "LETTERS","KABOOTARS" OR "WRITING ON THE LEAVES OF TREES"? :D (the old method adopted in pre-historic times)...Bro we got to depend on computers,Cell phones,Tv,IPADS etc...
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:26 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberRhyme, Nothing wrong with using gadgets but be aware of its negative consequences and warn your kids. Most of the usage of the gadgets is OK as long as it confines to morality and decency but when you cross the threshold it can spell disaster. Several schools have banned iPhone due to widespread negative usage. I don't want to dwell into the details. 95% of the programs on TV are outright junk and vulgar that will keep us away from the Creator. Again when Allama Iqbal witnessed the emergence of first silent movies which were much better than what we have today he has this to say:
wo mazhab tha iqwaan e ahd e kahan ka
ye tahzeeb e hazar ki saudagiri hai
wo duniyah ki matti ye dozaq ki matti
wo butkhana khaki ye khakistari haiThe crux of the poem is that the previous nations used clay and mud which he referred to as duniyah ki matti to make idols like the idols of Ibrahim AS and the present day generation are making idols from dozaq ki matti meaning eveything runs on AC and DC power which Allama said is from fire ie electric.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:39 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberRhyme, I referred to corporate American greed because none of the manufacturers whether it is Microsoft, Apple or HP will ever ban or block usage of filthy sites and games. They have to "sell" their products. They will never care if the younger generations gets lost due to over indulgence in video games, music or filthy sites.
Please note major corporations in Western countries block access to filthy sites through filters to maintain productivity and ofcourse profits but the individual consumer cannot do that unless they install filters.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:45 # -
bsobaid
MemberFirst thing, money was not the only or even primary motivation for him. His motivation was his passion and his intuition and inner voice, as Ghalib sahab cited, and he followed them with zeal, enthusiasm and tireless effort.
Faida:
Life of people like Steve Jobs is an open example and ayatullah for all of us that if we follow our goals wisely and put all our efforts in, there is nothing we can not achieve using legitimate and halal means.Such a good man he was!
Shukriya.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 17:52 # -
sochopakistani
MemberHe is one of the person who influenced the world positively using his vision, believe, potential,passion,hard work, innovation,intelligence.
He was just 56 years old, May his soul rest in peace.Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 18:07 # -
@Abdul Rahman
Oh that's very natural and one already predicted thing that we will have to face and experience the "Times of Fitnah" forever till Qiyamah in differnt forms and practices and the side effects of these technologies like u said have proven that time and again but isn't it completely upto us that how we manage to keep a balance when utilizing them? is our Iman so weak? or we have stop working on strengthening it further? :)
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 18:14 # -
By da way i completely agree with your viewpoint on how badly it is and has influenced young minds and kids....we really need to keep a check on them and constantly remind them the negative effects of it...i think along with modern knowledge/techniques we muslims must have adequate islamic education as well!...
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 18:19 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberThanks Rhyme, You said it 100% right
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 18:38 # -
AR, I know nothing about S.J. except that he was the Apple CEO and had a liver transplant not so long ago. Today he's dead and I learnt two more things about him, one that he was of a Syrian-Egyptian father and a US Mum, brought up by adoptive parents, both from US and two that quotation of his I posted above which did impress me because they quite unexpectedly rang a bell with me, perhaps because I interpreted them to mean have the courage of your convictions and stnad up for them. In other words, do not be intimidated by those around you who may believe otherwise.
Never think, AR, that I have anything at all in common with corporate America or, better said, corporate west or the gadget culture we live in today the symbols of which to my mind would be IT and the drone. But acknowledging a merit in your enemy is not, according to me, letting down your own side. Rather the contrary.
Whether SJ believed in God and the Hereafter, I am not in a position to say.
Posted 7 months ago on 06 Oct 2011 18:57 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberSteve Jobs is a biological Arab-American with roots in Syria
By Mohannad Al-Haj Ali
Steve Jobs is the founder of Apple, Pixar, and NeXT Computer
Steve Jobs, arguably the most influential CEO in the world, is the biological son of an Arab American who was born in Homs, Syria, and studied at the American University of Beirut.With accolades that include CEO of the decade and person of the year, Steve Jobs is routinely voted one of the most influential and powerful people in the world. He catapulted Apple to the world’s leading technology company through the iPod revolution and innovations that followed such as the iPhone and the iPad. The creative mind of Steve Jobs is often chronicled, including his life story as the adopted child of a modest American family.
What most fail to realize is that his living biological father is of Syrian origin. Abdul Fattah “John” Jandali emigrated to the United States in the early 1950s to pursue his university studies. Most media outlets have published little about Jandali, other than to say he was an outstanding professor of political science, that he married his girlfriend (Steve’s mother) and by whom he also had a daughter, and that he slipped from view following his separation from his wife.
An American historian, however, has now stirred controversy over the role of genes and their superiority over nurture in the case of Steve Jobs, by describing Jandali in a detailed critical article published briefly on the Internet before it was suddenly removed, as “the father of invention”, given that Jandali’s daughter Mona (Simpson) – Steve’s sister – is also one of the most famous contemporary American novelists and a professor at University of California in Los Angeles (UCLA).
The 79-year-old Jandali has deliberately kept his distance from the media.What is known about him lacks detail, and is both one-sided and a source of curiosity at the same time. Here is his story as Jandali himself told it to Al-Hayat.
Jandali in Syria
Abdul Fattah Jandali was born in 1931 to a traditional family in Homs, Syria. His father did not reach university, but was a self-made millionaire who owned “several entire villages”, according to his son. His father held complete authority over his children, authority not shared by his traditional and “obedient” wife.
“My father was a self-made millionaire who owned extensive areas of land which included entire villages,” Jandali said. “He had a strong personality and, in contrast to other parents in our country, my father did not reveal his feelings towards us, but I knew that he loved me because he loved his children and wanted them to get the best university education possible to live a life of better opportunities than he had, because he didn’t have an education. My mother was a traditional Muslim woman who took care of the house and me and my four sisters, but she was conservative, obedient, and a housewife. She didn’t have as important a part in our upbringing and education as my father. Women from my generation had a secondary role in the family structure, and the male was in control.”
The American University
Jandali did not stay long in Syria. “I left for Beirut when I was 18 to study at the American University, and I spent the best years of my life there,” he said.
He was a pan-Arabism activist, and his star soon began to shine. He headed an intellectual and literary society which had a nationalist bent and counted among its members symbols of the Arab nationalists’ movements such as George Habash, Constantine Zareeq, Shafiq Al-Hout and others.
“I was an activist in the student nationalist movement at that time,” he said. “We demonstrated for the independence of Algeria and spent three days in prison. I wasn’t a member of any particular party but I was a supporter of Arab unity and Arab independence. The three and a half years I spent at the American University in Beirut were the best days of my life. The university campus was fantastic and I made lots of friends, some of whom I am still in contact with. I had excellent professors, and it’s where I first got interested in law and political science.”
The university’s Campus Gate magazine published in its 2007 spring issue an article by Tousef Shabal in which he says: “The Al-Urwa Al-Wuthqa Association was founded in 1918 and dedicated to cultural and political activities. Between 1951 and 1954 the society was headed by Abdul Fattah Jandali, the now deceased Eli Bouri, Thabit Mahayni and Maurice Tabari. The decision to disband the society was taken after the events of March 1954…” a reference to the violent demonstrations that took place on the university campus against the Baghdad Pact.
According to Shabal, the society consisted of “diverse political groups such as Arab nationalists and communists, and competition for the managing positions was red hot, but in the end went in favor of the Arab nationalists.”
When Jandali graduated from the American University in Beirut, Syria was going through troubled political and economic times, according to Jandali, and although he wanted to study law at Damascus University and become a lawyer, his father did not agree, saying that there were “too many lawyers in Syria”.
He continued: “Then I decided to continue my higher studies in economy and political sciences at the United States where a relative of mine, Najm Al-Deen Al-Rifa’i, was working as a delegate of Syria to the United Nations in New York. I studied for a year at Columbia University and then went to Wisconsin University where I obtained grants that enabled me to earn my master’s and doctorate. I was interested in studying the philosophy of law and analysis of law and political sciences, and I focused in my studies at the American University on international law and the economy.”
The birth of Steve and Mona
While studying in Wisconsin, Jandali met Joanne Carole Sciebele by whom he had a boy while they were both still students, but Sciebele’s father was conservative and wouldn’t agree to them getting married, so she gave her baby boy – Steve Jobs – up for adoption.Mona Simpson is the author of five books of fiction: My Hollywood, Off Keck Road, A Regular Guy, The Lost Father and Anywhere But Here.
Initially, a lawyer and his wife approached, but did not proceed with adoption when they found out the child was a boy and not a girl as they wanted. Another couple came forward, neither of whom had gone through university education, and adopted the newborn baby after agreeing to the mother’s condition that the child be given a university education later in life.
Abdul Fattah (who added “John” to his name) returned and married Sciebele, and they had a daughter and named her Mona, but he then traveled to Syria – part of the United Arab Republic at the time – intending to enter the diplomatic corps.
The United Arab Republic
“I had two basic paths open to me after graduating,” Jandali said. “Either go back to my home country and work with the Syrian government, or stay in the United States and in university education, and that is what I did for a while. I went back to Syria when I got my doctorate, and I thought I’d be able to find work in the government, but that didn’t happen. I worked as a manager at a refinery plant in my hometown of Homs for a year, during which Syria was part of the United Arab Republic and run by the Egyptians. Egyptian engineers, for example, ran the Ministry of Energy in Syria, and the situation wasn’t right for me, so I went back to the United States to rejoin education there.”
According to Jandali, his wife decided to break up with him while he was away in Syria, but that didn’t stop him from pursuing his academic work.
“I enjoyed university education very much, it was a rewarding profession, but unfortunately during the sixties and seventies in the United States the pay was very poor for academics, and in general they did not enjoy great respect due to the prevailing belief that professors only taught because they couldn’t do anything else. That is stupid and wrong, of course. I was an assistant professor at Michigan University then at Nevada University. I purchased a restaurant and became interested in making money, and I gave up academic work to run the business. After the restaurant I was a manager at companies and organizations in Las Vegas, and then I opened two restaurants in Reno and joined the organization that I manage today.”
Jandali describes himself as an “idealist”. “Any job I want to do, I try my utmost to see it through completely or not do it at all. Academically, I was very successful. In business management, after a couple of difficult years, I improved. For example, now I run the organization I work in. Success in the world of business requires you to be interested in your assistants and staff and to have a clear vision.”
80 years: No to retirement
Jandali is that rare case of a person continuing work beyond the age of retirement, and it is something he is proud of.
“Next March I’ll be in my eighties, but to look at me you’d think I was only in my sixties because I’ve taken care of myself, looked after my health, and I love work. I think retirement is the worst of western societies’ institutions. When people retire they become detached, grow old and stop looking after themselves. Enthusiasm for life dies out and energy levels drop, and they effectively kill themselves, even though they’re still alive. I’m not planning to retire even if I leave my position here after a year or two. I’ll dedicate myself to writing, I might write a book or two. My daughter is a very successful novelist with five books, and I plan to move on from my work, and I’m thinking of writing about the Arab World, perhaps a historical narrative with analysis for the future.”But even so, Jandali has not been to Syria for over 35 years. “Not because I don’t want to, but because of the worry which affects an emigrant when he wants to go back to his home country after so many years, and over what might await him there. I’m thinking of visiting Lebanon and Abu Dhabi next summer to see relatives,” he said.
He doesn’t hide his nostalgia. “I miss my family in Syria. When I left, my closest relatives were still alive. I miss my culture and society and the tight social bonds between relatives as well as the standard of living. Here in the United States there is technological advancement and abundant opportunities for growth and work, but it’s not life itself, and while one appreciates the individual freedoms in western societies, there are times when you really feel that you are alone, that you don’t have the moral family support that you have in the east. I’m not talking about one’s mother or father, but the wider family, relatives, that entity that makes you feel you are part of it, that’s what I miss most about my home country. Of course I miss the social life and wonderful food, but the most important thing is the outstanding cultural attributes which in general you don’t find in the West.
“If I had the chance to go back in time, I wouldn’t leave Syria or Lebanon at all. I would stay in my home country my whole life. I don’t say that out of emotion but out of common sense. I think I’ve wasted my energies and talents in the wrong place and in the wrong society. But that’s just theoretical talk, and what’s happened has happened.” So what remains of his Syrian identity and Arabic culture after nearly 60 years in America?
“I’m a non-practicing Muslim and I haven’t been on the Haj, but I believe in Islam in doctrine and culture, and I believe in the family. I have never experienced any problem or discrimination in the United States because of my religion or race. Other than my accent which might sometimes suggest that I’m from another country, I have completely integrated in society here. I advise young Arabs coming here, however, to get a university degree and not prolong their stay, as there are lots of opportunities in the Arab World today, particularly in the Gulf. The good minds of the Arab world must stay there, as they might be able to help their countries there more than they can here.Father of invention
Responding to his being called the “father of invention”, Jandali says: “My daughter Mona is a famous writer, and my biological son is Steve Jobs, the chief executive of Apple. The reason he was put up for adoption was because my girlfriend’s father was extremely conservative and wouldn’t let her marry me, and she decided to give him up for adoption. Steve is my biological son, but I didn’t bring him up, and he has a family that adopted him. So if it’s said that I’m the ‘father of invention’, then that’s because my biological son is a genius and my daughter a brilliant writer. I thank God for my success in life, but I’m no inventor.
“I think that if my son Steve had been brought up with a Syrian name he would have achieved the same success. He has a brilliant mind. And he didn’t finish his university studies. That’s why I think he would have succeeded whatever his background. I don’t have a close relationship with him. I send him a message on his birthday, but neither of us has made overtures to come closer to the other. I tend to think that if he wants to spend time with me he knows where I am and how to get hold of me.“I also bear the responsibility for being away from my daughter when she was four years old, as her mother divorced me when I went to Syria, but we got back in touch after 10 years. We lost touch again when her mother moved and I didn’t know where she was, but since 10 years ago we’ve been in constant contact and I see her three times a year. I organized a trip for her last year to visit Syria and Lebanon and she went with a relative from Florida. I always take the side of the mother because the son will always be happiest with his mother.
I’m proud of my son and his accomplishments, and of my work. Of course I made mistakes, and if I could go back in time I would have put some things right. I would have been closer to my son, but all’s well that ends well. Steve Jobs is one of the most successful people in America, and Mona is a successful academic and novelist.”On the likelihood of Steve Jobs being regarded as an “American-Arab”, Jandali says: “I don’t think he pays much attention to these gene-related things. People know that he has Syrian origins and that his father is Syrian, that’s all well-known. But he doesn’t pay attention to these things. He has his own distinctive personality and he’s highly-strung. People who are geniuses can do what they want.”
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 1:22 # -
AR, that was extremely informative, many thanks. I'll skip the bit about culture versus genes. It's one of those pernicious topics which get us nowhere, according to me.
Where I concurred heartily with Jobs' father is when he compares US and Syria to the detriment of the former and goes on to say if he had to do it all over again, he'd have spent his life in his home country rather than the west. Very, very much my own feeling, that. The west was no gift to us desi people. Or, if a gift, then a poisoned one.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 6:06 # -
shafiq12
memberWould be interesting to see how Apple will survive without Steve Jobs.
Wouldn't be it interesting to see how steve jobs will survive without his Jobs
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 6:30 # -
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 6:36 #
-
Rohail Taqi
Member@Abdul Rehman
Stop being a hypocrite. Why don't you give up your pc!! I bet right now your must be using a bunch of pirated software created by MS or Apple.
Why dont you give up using electricity, television and phone also since they were developed by people who didn't install filters on porn.
I guess you vont jamiti hypocrite.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 7:45 # -
steve jobs kay marnay ka afsos sub ko hay.
usski qadar ho gaye zindagi mein.
humaray haan logon kay marr janay kay baad unki asal qadar hoti hay.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 7:50 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberRohail,
I may be hypocrite. No qualms about that. That is how the great Sahabas RA felt too. I am just a peck of dust compared to those luminaries.
Tu jis karwan ki manzil tha
mai us karwan ki gard hoonHowever your flawed logic about using pc is outright ludicrous. I don't know what your slavish mind subservient 24x7x365 to West feels, but I do use pc with conviction that if it was not for the contribution of early Muslim mathematicians, there won't be the technology industry today let alone pc. The mind behind Steve's success story nurtured with genes that came from Syria, the cradle of civilization after all. Look at this way Ruhail that it was Steve's biological father that brought the remnants of Islamic civiization to the shores of America. Quite the contrary to what your warped logic makes you rant.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 11:27 # -
home
Member@Mirza Ghalib Sahab
"Words of wisdom from an unlikely source. "
The biggest entrepreneur mankind has ever seen is an unlikely source?
:)
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 13:07 # -
Rohail Taqi
MemberAbdul Rehman
You have no clue how pathetic and ridiculous it is to say "I am using PC because mid eval muslims invented 'ginti' "
Your take on technology is both laughable as well as sad. You cant live without it so you try to justify it by finding the most stupid of the connection between it and the Muslims. For example, just look at how you are now trying to adopt Jobs as one of your own by this "gene" argument, without realizing that you were taught what gene really is also by 'filthy' westerner.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 14:28 # -
For me, Shirazi, definitely. I have never much associated busnessmen and wisdom in the past.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 14:47 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberRohail,
Most well known historians and philosophers in this era from the enlightened West have one thing in common which they agree uninanimously:
"Western Civilization is indebted to Islamic civilization"
So please stop your medieval mantra. BTW, it is not really that medieval too. No one could do research until 19th century in Europe if he or she did not know Arabic.
http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_6/embraced.aspx
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 15:58 # -
@Abdul Rahman
I think this would be the most appropriate video(though posted no of times) to explain briefly the worth of muslim scientists,inventors,artists,doctors,historians etc of last centuries....but it will also be nice if we appreciate any non-muslim who is sincere to his work and invents something worth-praising...
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 16:21 # -
bsobaid
Member@shira,
He was a genius but he certainly was'nt the biggest entrepreneur. His business partner from original Apple worth about 10 times more than he did but this man Jobs is a huge inspiration and worth lots of respect.
I am both surprised and disappointed by the negativity in this thread.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 21:56 # -
Rizwan Qaimkhani
MemberAbdul Rahman Sahab
Muslims were not the first one to invent anything. In fact, they were part of the chain who have progressed the work of the civilizations before their time. Hadith of Prophet (SAW) can be seen as a proof of such where he asked muslims to pursue the knowledge whether it required them to go to China. Because chinese had their place in the history, so as the hindus and later on Europe became torch bearer. And now the Americans are have got the lead in this relay race. What does it show, every nation had their share in social and natural sciences, it is spiral chain. As muslims, first we need to change our attitude of pride that we feel for the predecessors. This is not how you move forward, one who seeks guidance and knowledge, aspire to become something and introduce or invent something beneficial to the humanity needs to be humble.This us vs. them mentality has to be abolished, it is deeply rooted in Arab nationalism and I have no respect for that.
Give the due share to the deserving. Steve Job was a great inventor, entrpreneur and savvy businessman , we can all learn from him, we can all adopt something from his life that can be beneficial for Pakistan's economy. Be positive sir as it grows your life as a tree that benefits others.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 22:31 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberBrother Rizwan,
"Hadith of Prophet (SAW) can be seen as a proof of such where he asked muslims to pursue the knowledge whether it required them to go to China."
This is fabricated Hadith often quoted. It is not authentic Hadith. Even if we assume that to be true for argument sake, what kind of education-ilm the Prophet SAS was referring to? Certainly not the materialistic knowledge devoid of God Almighty.
I agree with Rhyme who said the material education and knowledge should be followed from anywhere but before you blindly apply it, we need to have Islamic vision that all knowledge comes from the Lord of the Worlds. This is the fundamental difference between them and us. Their progress is hollow if you see their social life. For example, there are more per capita murders in a US cities than in Karachi or Lahore even if you add the political violence that has unfortunately gripped Pakistan.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 22:51 # -
Rizwan Qaimkhani
MemberWhat you are calling material sciences or I call natural sciences does not sprung from nowhere. They are still part of the world that God has created. He has also revealed Quran in chapters and verses to provide the guidance, a foundation for learning and a spark for knowledge seekers and it definitely is code of life. The problem with us, we are scutinizing for the sake of it. We have created these 'Islamic Googles' in our minds, if something fit within them, we call it Islamic otherwise outright reject it. Another problem is, we are looking too much into the past, yes we need to keep things in the perspective, but we need to move forward.
This social commentary of more murders there vs. here has no bearing in this argument. We need to focus on one issue at a time. Murders, law and order and civics is a discussion in themselves.
As for the hadith, if I agree with you is fabricated or ghair mustanad, than would you care to enlighten who has fabricated it. Thanks.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 23:05 # -
SufiSoul
MemberSteve did great job in giving a modren shape to phone.which brings lots of comfort to the humans life.
Every one is using his inventions without any desrcrimination.everyone has got to facilitate his life.
Definitly people here in this world would be praising for his efforts in this world.we should not feel odd over it.Another thing is that everyone has been assigned duties in this worls to keep it balanced and developing.
Development was started with the creation of mankind and today is at peak.
So steve job was given task to creat Iphone's more developed models and things.From some days i started thinking to "GIFT" an IPHONE to my "SHAIKH" to facilitate him, searching for menus and clicking buttons and in hearing naats etc.
NOW my "NEEYAT" is to facilitate my "SHAIKH" and hopefully its a rewarding job back from "SHAIKH"as DUA for DUNYA and AKHIRA..What was STEVE's NEEYAT doing all this from longtime.????
Answer would definitly be to earn and and secondly to facilitate humans.
So both are achieved.
We are praising here but if at the day of judgement Steve comes to any muslim to save his neck that would not be possible for anyone of us,despite using and getting facilitating through his IPHONES..This is very simple to understand.
Posted 7 months ago on 07 Oct 2011 23:07 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member"What you are calling material sciences or I call natural sciences does not sprung from nowhere. They are still part of the world that God has created."
Ok. No one has refuted your assertion about material science origin. What is difference is that we have been given guidance in Quran and Hadith to follow 24x7x365. Material or natural science depends wholly on physical observation. Science cannot accept the revelation part which is core of our belief system. The harmonious belief in revelation and material science propeled Islamic Civilization that in turn gave rise to rennaisance movement in europe.
For Eaxample: If you ask a Scientist: What happened before big bang when Universe came into being, they cannot answer that as it is beyond their comprehension and human intellect. They canot look back in time to determine that or do any analysis or experimet to figure that out. The human knowledge is limited whereas s Believer can be satisfiled with one simple statement-Allahu Alam ie Allah knows best or Allamu Ghuyub- Master of the Unseen This inability to reconcile religion and science is the major problem in Western concept of knowledge that hinders their full appreciation of Gods creation. Evey one knows that Galileo was persecuted in West for oppsing religious dogmas that were embedded in Bible and hence they separated Sciencde and Religion. Muslims never had and will never had that dualism and a Muslim Scientist of yester years and Muslim Scinetist of present era will not have that issue.
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 0:36 # -
Rizwan Qaimkhani
MemberAR Sahab,
No argument there on that science is based on materialism and majority of its theories are just hypothesis until they are proven or otherwise. Current neutrino speed discovery is one example of such that has become controversial among scientist community that they cannot fathom that something speed above the speed of light. So you are right that Allah is alim-ul-ghaib but he reveals to those who pursue not to us who are arguing the right or wrong. In this case, we are no different than those people of Baghdad who were qurrelling for who is right Hanafi or Shafai and met their fate on the sword of Genghis Khan. It is also hard to prove if Jabir-ibn Hayan or Khawarzami were not looking at mathematics and sciences from every angle whether materialistic or vice versa because majority of the books written at that time were destroyed by Genghis.In my view, at least they are trying to seek the truth, we are just merely arguing here about the merit of their thinking process. Anyone who knows mathematics can say that you can reach to the same conclusion by adopting various techniques, some routes are shorter and some are not. It is all about how you are looking at things and what process you adopt to decipher the problem. Who knows they may find the truth.
Besides 24 hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds are the invention of Babylonians, would you denounce that to because it is a system of non-believers.
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 1:09 # -
home
MemberAR sahab
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 2:01 # -
Rohail Taqi
Member@Abdul Rehman,
You are just pushing the 500 years old 'Neem-Mulla' agenda, declaring the need of science and technology as futile.
I am not sure why learning about things ranging from quarks to DNA to stars and galaxies are counted as materialistic. What should we learn then?
You also said
"No one could do research until 19th century in Europe if he or she did not know Arabic."In 17th century Newton alone discovered more than all Muslim scientists combined ever. Not to mention Galilei, Kepler, Fermat, Pascal, Bernoulli, Euler, Gauss, Laplace, Lagrange and many more all belonging to same or 18th century. You have no idea what these guys did for the advancement of this era.
So lets hope we produce some like them instead crushing the desire of acquiring knowledge in our young generation.
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 2:15 # -
Dusky
Member@Abdul Rehman:
When you say "materialistic" or "worldly" gain, what do you mean exactly?
If you are referring to "making profits" from the business, as Steve Jobs/Apple did, then what's unislamic in this? Islam does not put any cap on income or holdings or on expansion. If it does, then I would like to see some authentic rulings on subject.
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 2:57 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberShirazi,
That video lacks any logic. It can be answered by one sentence from Allama Iqbal who understood West much more than that Clown in the video. Iqbal predicted the iinevitable collapse of Western Civilization and all leading philosophers agree with Allama's prophetic words despite the West's technological progress. There is ignorance or nadaani that Iqbal alluded to amongst us and it is not due to lack of technology but due to lack of belief.
Apnoun ki nadaani bhee dekh
Auroun ki ayyari bhee dekhPosted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 3:27 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberDusky,
Steve was not a lone shark but was one of the key players in the sinister Corporate culture that runs America. On the surface it may look like simple humanitarian efforts in helping humanity from a business perspective of selling cellphones but when you analyse their overall portfolio you will discover that the bulk of the profits go to the corrupt politicians in their election campaigns. Corporate giants like Exxon and others are biggest donors that shape the political landscape that is under the grip of Zionists. They start with small gadgets like iPhone but end up being agents of the military industrial complex.
One of the ingrediants of cell phone, electic cars, and memory chips is made out of Lithium and Afghanistan happens to have a huge deposits. Do you seriously think they care about Taliban or AQ?
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/04/05/jesse-ventura-were-still-in-afghanistan-because-we-want-their/
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 3:41 # -
Dusky
Memberعبدل رحمن، تم نے وہ مثال تو سنی ہوگی، "سوال گندم، جواب چننا"
میں نہ پوچھا اسٹیو جوبس نے کون سی غیر شرے حرکت کی، تمہاری تان یہودیوں پر جا کر ٹوٹ گیئ،
جس چیز جا جواب نہ بن پڑے اسے یہودی سازش قرار دے دو - اجیب منطق ہے تم مولویوں کیPosted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 4:51 # -
home
Member@AR Sahab
What did Iqbal invent that anyone is using now?
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 5:03 # -
Rizwan Qaimkhani
MemberYeh tou wohi Iqbal sahab hain jinhon nay Germany ja kar eeman taaza kiya tha. Aur bar-e-saghir waapas anay kay baad 'shikwah' kia (Iqbal sahab ko German chicks itni pasand aaien kay shikwah kar baithay, yaqeenan Jealous ho kar Europe kay demise ki baat ki hogi) aur phir mullaoun kay kutt laganay pur 'jawab-e-shikwah' likh diya.
:)
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 5:37 # -
Dusky
MemberYes he is the same "Iqbal" who was crowned the "knighthood" by the British raj in 1922 and he gladly accepted the honor despite what he says in his poetry.
Here is another interesting read about Iqbal.
Posted 7 months ago on 08 Oct 2011 6:09 #
Reply »
You must log in to post.