Who is brain washing those young boys and young men to do this ?
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
Suicide Bombers !
(35 posts)-
shimatoree
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 12 Jul 2010 22:24 # -
Brain washing is a lengthy procedure. Revenge could be more likely a motivation behind these suicides.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 4:55 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberDeviant religious sects indoctrinate such views in the minds of innocent youngsters that they begin considering suicide attacks over their own Muslim brethren as the sources of blessings.
A young boy's attempt of suicide attack was foiled. He was taken into firm control before exploding his bomb. He said sadly, " I am fasting today. I had a plan to do Iftar in Jannah".
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 6:39 # -
shirazi
MemberUstad e Fadein, Qari something is probably the biggest culprit. His students and students of his students probably provided most of the suicide bombers in Pakistan.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 6:53 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberLet us imagine how Ustad e Fidaen is able to accomplish this feat of brain washing.
What about us being that illusive Qari trying to indoctrinate a fresh mind to commit suicide. What would be our modus operandi?
Is a promise of paradise enough to compel someone to commit suicide or there are other factors that could be involved? Let us not rule them out.Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 7:03 # -
What about desperation, sheer desperation, which is the primary cause of all suicides in general?
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 8:15 # -
shirazi
Member@MG
I 'd classify desperation and other short comings in our social and political fabric as conducive factors not the cause. Pakistan is not the first federation where we have these problems. Eastern Europe is going through comparable economic hardships but we don't see same sort of backlash. When LTTE introduced suicide bombers their motive wasn't religion or foreign troops.
To me cold blooded militants their used human life to brutally target civilians under the banner of nationalism and in Pakistan, Iraq and Afghanistan they are doing it in the name of religion.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 8:29 # -
@ Hussain Farooqui
Well said! I completely agree with you...
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 9:16 # -
Me, too, I agree to some extent with HK and you UmeR. But, I cling to my "desperation" theory as well. We are waiting for Allah's barkat to come down upon us and see only his wrath. So we lay down our lives in a gesture we hope might placate Him. Our deviant sects will have much to answer for on the day Qayamat comes.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 10:51 # -
Incidents like Mohmand Agency also breeds voilence,hatred and suicide bombers....just watch last night Talat's show....so depressing....
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 11:44 # -
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 14:41 #
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shimatoree
MemberUmer-
Is this video a joke of some sort.
The question that was asked is a very serious issue and I was hoping for an intellectual and analytical response from the commentators here.Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 16:11 # -
Well, if you think it was a joke, then just laugh and move on. Why complain? Anyway, this video just strengthens the point Hussain farooqi made that it's those deviant sects who are behind these suicide attacks, who teach their kids in madrassa's that people going to mazaars are kafir/****, and then further tell them that it's 'Ayn Islam' to kill those murtids, then with what face do they condemn such attacks on TV (that too, with ifs and buts) when they themselves or those who share their school of thought are the ones behind brainwashing those people.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 16:17 # -
Both Shabzada Karim and Dr. Abbasi are right about the rise of certain highly intolerant extremist group which is Salafi group. Govt does not want to incur displeasure of Saudi Govt that is why there is no condemning statement from the Govt.
Govt response to tackling terrorism is lukewarm and political expediency is an obstacle to fight terrorism.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 16:18 # -
shimatoree, did UmeR's video contribute really nothing of worth to the analysis as well? I felt it did. You know and I know we all had an unpleasant argument over just this very thing not so very long ago.
If I may add my own understanding of our so-called suicide bombers? Are they even that? I don't quite know about Data Durbar, but very often I have had the feeling that our suicide bomber has in no way committed suicide. He has used a long-distance bombing technique and has now simply melted into the crowd. These are all the mercenaries being used by all the foreign elements which have found refuge in Pakistan thanks to govt support.
In conclusion: We are not facing just one type of bombing, but several, including the type described by UmeR above, which is, of course, the saddest of the lot.
P.S. ST, Thanks. You spoke openly at least.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 16:30 # -
wantinsaf
MemberThere is not just one reason behind.There are many reasons and factors contributing to this.Poverty,injustice,drone attacks killing innocents,religious bigotry and anti US sentiments are few of them.
But more unfortunate is all the factors contributing to suicide bombings are note being sorted out,they are rather being promoted.
We gave chance our enemies and their local supporters found within us by getting involved in an unnecessary war based on vested interests.Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 16:41 # -
On local scale, it is the mullah of the madrassa( in most cases Deobandi) who would pick the child to-be-a-suicide bomber. The criteria for picking a bomber is a poor child with no back support whatsoever. The unfortunate child is either an orphan(in most cases) or a poor child who has many siblings.
These mullas play the front men of these jehadi groups who would turn these innocent children into lethal weapons by keeping them in places with exotic pictures of their wild imagination of ‘’Jannat’.
Now we all know that these Jehadi commanders are nothing but mere puppets of these banned organizations+JI+FAZLU group, who mainly work for Saudi Arab who is in bed with USA.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 18:10 # -
shimatoree
MemberMirza Sahib
With due respect to everyone I feel that comments made on Youtube by those that have failed- simply fill space on the forum.
My view is that if I wish to discuss something with YOU- I must firsty educate myself about your point of view in an objective and un-biased way.
If that be the case then we must understand by learning and knowing the view point of those that are tagged as Salafis and Takfiris.Let me also make another point-
When it rains- we notice that tadpoles appear in the ponds.
Where were those tadpoles when there was no water in the ponds.
They were there- only in a dormant form.
So the environment is the key. So now let us relate this to the problem at hand.
The illegal and immoral invasion of Afghanistan creates something similar to the rain. Add to that the general breakdown of law and order plus the economic conditions and you have your "POND". In this "POND" of no governance- no credibility of the officials and their corruption and thus no moral authority-
the "TADPOLES" have appeared.You cannot get the tadpoles to disappear without changing the environment.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 18:16 # -
@ WantInsaf
Although it's true that Poverty, Injustice and Anti-US sentiments can make one vulnerable to fall in the hands of those ignorant militants who would then brain wash these people to become suicide bombers and attain jannah through it, but I do not accept and believe that just because of poverty and Injustice someones goes onto blow other people with him, and that too those who are praying in the mosques.
If for e.g I wanted to blow up Punjab governor house ;) I wouldn't know where to get a suicide vest and all such stuff. And those who are struck with poverty do not even have enough money to buy poison for themselves, where would they buy these suicide vests and bombs from, and from whom?
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 18:24 # -
bublibangash
Memberagreed to dildar.... the ultimate sponsore of the whole scene are our foreign enemies.... its our unfortune that we have such black sheeps in our society who use the religion as a tool fpr teh accomplishment of a particular agenda and feed upon the innocent minds the concepts of jihad in wrong context..... jihad doesnt tell us to kill the civilians Muslims.... before a jihad, there are a list of factors to be considered... and even during jihad, mujahid is not allowed and suppose to kill the women, kids, old, and helpless.......
most of the time, the teen agers who have been effected by the military operation are proved to be very easy target for them , because they have already the spirit of revenge in their minds..... may god save the youth from such hands,,,, AmeenPosted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 18:26 # -
shafiq12
memberWho is brain washing those young boys and young men to do this ?
Zionism!
“US defeat in Afghanistan, however, poses an existential threat to Pakistan. It is being turned into another Cambodia with a grim twist. During the Vietnam War, the Americans bombed their way out by killing two million Cambodians. The process of Pakistan’s destablization is in full swing with Pakistani rulers acting as willing accomplices in this criminal enterprise for a fistful of dollars,” – Zafar Bangash, a Canadian writer’s opinion published in Crescent International.
“It is essential that we strike and crush Pakistanis, enemies of Jews and Zionism by all disguised and secret plans,” – David Ben Gurion, first prime minister of the Zionist entity.
The America’s four allies – Britain, Canada, Netherlands, and Turkey – whose soldiers are dying for Zionist agenda in that part of the Muslim world, want to get out of Afghanistan before the end of 2011. Britain’s Zionist foreign secretary, David Miliband, has advised Washington to drop the term “War on Terror”, which he believe is deceptive and misleading
So is the case of Suicider?
The Zionist regime and its midwife, the US, have come to the conclusion that the events of the last two decades – the Zionist experiment in the Middle East is living on borrowed time. The reconstruction of an Islamic anti-Zionist bloc is just begining to surface – and this haunt the Zionist thugs both in Tel Aviv and Washington.
Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 19:06 # -
shimatoree, thanks. That was perfect. And I do agree about the Afghan war being the catalyst for all that has followed. Our state of non-governance or even treacherous goverance has just worsened the situation, deepened the pond you so perceptively described for the tadpoles coming to life.
This said, I think the fairest way to proceed would be to treat each horror of a bombing as a separate event and probe to see who or what might be behind it.
Your objection to a video reply to the thread question has also now been understood by me and no doubt by UmeR, too.Posted 1 year ago on 13 Jul 2010 20:47 # -
A detailed well written article covering suicide bombers and brainwashing that I would like to share with you:
There is general consensus about how suicide bombers are brainwashed in religious seminaries. They attack groups belonging to the opposite religious sects and supporters of American interests. But what about those who bomb innocent people in the market places who have no religious or political inclinations? An investigative report following the carnage at Bhakar, traced the culprit to a Mullah in DIK who had links with Waziristan. The most disturbing part of the investigation showed that suicide bombers are randomly sold for Rs 1 million to Rs 1.5 million. The question is; are these bombers the culprits or themselves victims caught in the cobweb spread by their brutal handlers?
Brainwashing takes different forms. I remember a psychiatrist, who treated heroin addicts, telling me that the principle of his therapy was to replace addiction with addition. I didn’t know what he was talking about until I learned about how the treatment ran in sessions. First, the patient was detoxified followed by replacing heroin with a milder short-acting sedative; followed, again, by ‘Minimum Insulin Therapy (MIT)’ to help the addict gain weight and feel good about himself. After that, he was given a list of religious books to read. This was the most fascinating part of the therapy as at the end of finishing a book, the psychiatrist would discuss it with him and find out what he found interesting in it. Then he would do the same with the second book and the third and it went on and on for some time. Now and again, he would ask a religious scholar to join them in the discussions. According to him, it had a remarkable effect on the addict as he not only gave up heroin but also turned to religion. On my enquiry, he explained, “I replace one type of addiction with another; first hard drugs with milder drug and later milder drug with religion” It was then I realised, how skilfully he brainwashed his patients without hypnotising them in a conventional way.
Generally speaking, hypnosis is the main tool in brainwashing. As opposed to conventional brainwashing by the psychiatrists in medical fields; evidence is available where it is carried out in the fields of warfare. At the end of WWII and beginning of ‘Cold War’, President Truman authorized ‘Project Paperclip’ to exploit German scientists in detainment for American research in this field. These intellectuals, though ardent Nazis, were considered so vital to the “Cold War” effort, that they were taken to the US and Canada to deny the Soviet Union from such vital resources.
That’s how mind control experimentation started secretly on a grand scale. It was at that time that James Forrestal, the US Secretary of Defence, pushed for the CIA to begin a ‘secret war’ against the Soviets. In 1947, it was decided that the communist threat should be given priority over constitutional rights. It is interesting to find, that this theory was applied again in 2001 at the onset of the war against terrorism. Forrestal’s initiative led to the execution of psychological warfare operations (psy-ops) in Europe, using military bases to hide covert activities. A 1999 report to the Senate and the House said “between 1945 and 1955, 765 scientists, engineers, and technicians were brought to the US under Paperclip and similar programs.”
A declassified CIA document ‘Hypnotic Experimentation and Research, 10 February 1954’ talks of creation of unsuspecting assassins through mind control. According to the report, the agency originated its first program in 1950 under the name of ‘Bluebird’ which was changed to ‘Artichoke Mkultra’ after Britain and Canada were included in it. It was closed officially in 1964 but some of its programs remained active under ‘Mksearch’.In 1973, tipped off about forthcoming investigations, CIA Director ordered the destruction of ‘Mkultra’ records, some of which survived and surfaced as part of 16,000 page documents in the Agency’s financial history. According to Senator Frank Church, who led the congressional investigations of the CIA ’s unlawful actions in 1976, the agency was “a rogue elephant operating above the law as it plotted assassinations, illegally spied on thousands of Americans, and even drugged our own citizens in its effort to develop new weapons for its covert arsenal”.
Apparently, those weapons were hypnotic techniques, operated through drugs and sensory deprivation, to split one’s personality followed by preparing subjects to respond to a post hypnotic trigger and perform acts which they wouldn’t remember later. A typical case was shown by P Janet, who asked a “deeply hypnotised female to commit several murders before a distinguished group of judges, stabbing some victims with a rubber dagger and poisoning others with sugar tablets” She did it without hesitation. In this way, research centres were developed making high power, very low frequency acoustic beam weapons that projected acoustics to produce ‘voices in the head’ akin to schizophrenic patients. The aim was to devise a system stimulating specific brain wave rhythms and alter the state of consciousness of individual subjects. They were exposed to extreme REM sleep deprivation added, sometimes, with selective drugs that make them incapable of resisting “suggestions”. With further work, such ‘suggestions’ were converted to “commands” with devastating consequences such as accepting to kill or be killed. It is known that REM sleep deprivation causes; reduced protein synthesis, loss of short term memory, confusion, impulsiveness, anger, frustration, diminished self-esteem, reduced productivity, apathy, depression and increased suggestibility.We know that the subconscious mind plays a pivotal role in brainwashing by accepting ‘suggestions’. These suggestions are conveyed through acoustics or visuals or both. And this became the principle of brainwashing in scientific way used in warfare. This type of brainwashing is different to the one practiced by the psychologists and psychiatrists. They use phonation as a ‘suggesting tool’ while scientists use visuals and acoustics for the purpose. For example, in case of visuals, ‘suggestions’ are conveyed to subconscious brain through rapid movement of frames at the speed of 30 per second. At this speed the conscious mind cannot recognize the message but the subconscious mind can with clarity.
Thus a subject can be brainwashed while wide awake.
Similarly, the subconscious mind operates at a speed of about 1200 to 1400 words per minute. This is many times faster than the conscious mind that operates at 250 to 450 WPM (words per minute). It means that at a higher speed the conscious mind cannot recognize a message but the subconscious mind not only recognises it but reads it clearly and gets sensitised to it. This part of acoustic transmission has its own history. In the mid-1950s, certain psychtronic weapons of mass mind-control were tested by US military intelligence with the code name ‘the sound of silence’. It was perfected during the 70s and used extensively in the 90s. This mind-altering covert weapon is based on subliminal carrier technology called the Silent Sound Spread Spectrum (SSSS), also nicknamed S-Quad or “Squad” in military jargon. It was developed by Dr. Oliver Lowery of Norcross, Georgia. Using this technology, inaudible acoustic or vibrational desired messages are conveyed in very low; very high audio frequencies; or in ultrasonic frequency for inducement into the subconscious mind through the use of loudspeakers, earphones, or piezoelectric transducers. In layman’s terms, this device, allows for the unwarranted implantation of specific messages, thoughts, emotions, and even prescribed physical actions into unsuspecting human beings. In other words, it has the ability to turn human beings into mere puppets in the hands of their “controllers”.This technology falls in ‘behavioural modification program, in which subjects go through three stages; pre-screen evaluation; process of standardisation; and process of extreme. Without going into details of each stage, it works out as follows;
A full study of the subject’s religious, superstitions, fears, and insecurities is made through standard subliminal interrogation techniques and behavioural observation. After having full control over the subject; his physical and mental condition is depleted by arresting his ability to communicate concisely, and making him dishonoured in the sight of local and federal law enforcement agencies to assure the subject’s testimony becomes questionable. Meanwhile, depending on the leanings of the subject, whether religious or non-religious, coincidence is used to create a perception that supernatural events are beginning in his life.A combination of posthypnotic commands and pre-information awarded to him prior to an upcoming experience that gives him a feeling that “God” or some other supernatural being is taking an interest in his life. The subject is then given a posthypnotic suggestion that a feeling of dread or loss is welling up inside him and he is directed to think of a particular loved one. With repetitions, he starts believing that he has special powers, insights, or communications from God or other super entities, which come as ‘voices’. In actual fact such voices may be transmitted as posthypnotic script at a pre-specified time from a nearby building. And what about those who are detained in places such as Bagram Base or Guantanamo Bay?
To quote an example; a declassified CIA document dated 7 January 1953 with a section heading “Outline of Special H Cases” describes the creation of multiple personalities in two 19-year old girls. “These subjects have clearly demonstrated that they can pass from a fully awake state to a deep hypnotic state by telephone, by receiving written matter, or by the use of code, signal, or words and that control of those hypnotized can be passed from one individual to another without great difficulty. It has also been shown by experimentation with these girls that they can act as unwilling couriers for information purposes.”G.H. Estabrooks was the only mind control doctor who publicly acknowledged in his book Spiritism that experiments were done to create multiple personalities. In another book, Hypnotism, he states that the creation of experimental multiple personality for operational use in military subjects, whom he refers to as super spies, is ethical because of the demands of war.
In a 1971 article in Science Digest, he claimed to have created hypnotic couriers and counterintelligence agents for operational use.
Now, here is an interesting point I want to put forward. On October 27, 1992, the ‘Squad’ technology was patented for “privatization” commercial applications by Dr. Lowery, opening the door to private defence contractors to develop their own “intelligence systems”. No wonder the public showed concerns about Xe or Backwater Security Firm taking over buildings in Islamabad and other cities of the country and fortifying them. And what about the secret boxes delivered to the Marriot Hotel, Islamabad, without being checked just before a suicide bomber with a truckload of ammunition blasted himself? The next day, Rehman Malik linked the bomber with Waziristan.
Finally, a declaration, in a neuroscientist conference sponsored by the UN at Tokyo in 1999, read: “Today we have intellectual, physical and inancial resources to master the power of the brain itself, and to develop devices to touch the mind and even control or erase consciousness…We wish to profess our hope that such pursuit of knowledge serves peace and welfare”
The question is; are the religious custodians and non-religious political gurus around the world use such fantastic resources for the benefit of religious synchronization and global political stability; or to gain immoral supremacy, through intrigues, strife and wars? And isn’t it shameful that they pick up innocent youth, brainwash them and then turn them into suicide bombers.
Dr G. Ayub
http://www.daily.pk/making-of-suicide-bombers-18794/Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jul 2010 5:08 # -
rashidsaleem
MemberIt is the indoctrination done by the extremist clerics which had led these young boys astray. But with Pakistan army’s swat operation and attempts to revive the spirit of life in them with initiatives like “Sabaoon”, we can definitely keep our fingers crossed for a better future.
Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jul 2010 7:31 # -
And what about those who are detained in places such as Bagram Base or Guantanamo Bay?
What are they going through. Remember Masoud when released he was a changed man!
Posted 1 year ago on 14 Jul 2010 10:18 # -
What if media plays a crucial role by not assigning too much time and importance to incidents of terror? Terrorist are hungry of publicity. Always being in news is a positive indicator for them that their strategy of spreading terror among our public is working.
Posted 1 year ago on 15 Jul 2010 8:05 # -
ammarisb
MemberThe Taliban Apologists should stop beating the drum of drone attacks, they do not care about Pakistan’s sovereignty all they want to do is to save their own skin. The Lahore massacre reminds us that there should be no leniency for those who seek to destroy our nation.
Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jul 2010 12:20 # -
There are no taliban apologists on this forum. Suicide Bombers as a topic is what is being discussed.
Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jul 2010 12:23 # -
Unless our nation stop supporting taliban mafia; this curse of taliban terroorism cannot be finished. In my opinion, support for taliban mafia and Deobandi extremism are growing in Pakistan. Daata Darbar is not even safe in a Mulsim country.
Some extremists will say:
It is due to our foreign policy
Zionist are responsible for everything
Blackwater is involved
RAW did this
Talibans are true muslims; they cannot do such attacks
Deobandi muslims are true muslims
Salafi group is soldier of GodThis has become psyche of our nation and I am afraid we cannot win war on terror with this apologetic mentality.
Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jul 2010 18:20 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberHey ST, Do you have audacity to call it the "war on terror" like your Masters? Looks like your eyes are indeed blurred as you can't see the real mafia.
There are millions of Westerners who have realised the futility of this war on terror and unfortunatly our so called Muslims are repeating the mantra about the "terrorist" bogeyman.
This war is making a privileged few Americans filthy rich!
The boards at Halliburton, Blackwater (aka Xe), Lockheed Martin etc. love this war because they are never ending cash cows.Politicians love them because they get never ending campaign donations from the companies listed above and, thanks to John Roberts' totally corrupted court, those donations are only going to increase.
If anyone here thinks we're going to pull out of that Bronze Age cesspool of hate and ignorance before 2020 you are a fool!
This new, profit at any cost America, loves these kinds of wars.
The enemy is not Christian.
The enemy has different skin.
The enemy has a different language.We'll go on killing them for the next decade and the War Profiteers will continue to gobble up their blood soaked bonuses that whole time.
Any attempt to spin these wars into anything remotely honorable is as futile as the wars themselves!This war on terror is one of those lopsided notions that generally have nothing to do with reality. If one viewed it with the same dispassionate eye that insurance actuaries view threat or casualty we would have a completely different picture.
The bottom line threat of terrorism is the number of deaths it causes. Given that, if we look at the last decade then so called "Islamic terrorism" in the US has claimed approximately 3,500 lives, most of them in a single catastrophic event. No concrete proof yet.
During the same 10 year period home-grown shootings have claimed about 1500,000 lives. Drunken driving incidents have been responsible for about 180,000 lives and deaths related to cigarette smoking about 2.5 million.
Now, if you were an actuary and were issuing insurance against life-threatening possibilities which of the above would you charge the most money for?
Obvious when viewed against actual numbers.
However, the government spends more money fighting "terror" in one single month than it spends on preventing smoking deaths in a century. There is no rhyme or reason to what we spend money on. Mostly, I suspect, the government spends the most money on what politicians perceive as getting the most votes. Actual and real numerically proven threats have nothing to do with government policy. Leave that to the insurance compaies. They have to make a profit so they deal with reality.
Posted 1 year ago on 16 Jul 2010 19:50 # -
Hussain Farooqui
Membersemirza
Your wrote,"They attack groups belonging to the opposite religious sects and supporters of American interests".
I could understand if they had attacked Sunni Tehrik's office, but they attacked mazars which are the places of tolerance for all the human beings no matter what religions they belong to. Data Darbar is visited by Sikhs, Hindus and Christains also. The saints belonging to these shrines distributed unbaised love and kindness to all the human beings in their lives.
Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 7:03 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberSorry to jump in. In my opinion behind every terrorist act there is an aim, an expected outcome.
The only outcome so far has been spread of terror regardless of whose life ends as a victim of terror.Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 7:10 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberNaseem
There are deviant sects among the Muslims who indoctrinate youngsters to kill the Muslims belonging to other schools of thought.
Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 7:18 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberComparing your control measures with ours (I am working abroad at a sernior level for a government body) regarding a network of informers and sources I believe your police has since long lost all respect and regard and is therefore not supported rather loathed by ordinary citizens.
Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 7:26 # -
naseemkhanan
MemberSorry to say you have a very important wing as the most corrupt. Your police department. Get it on track and most of your problems would be solved including this question of who done it.
Posted 1 year ago on 17 Jul 2010 7:29 #
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