PKPolitics Discuss » Future of Pakistan

Talibaan's back ground and How do Defeat Talibaan in Pakistan!

(38 posts)
  1. I know that quite few people will get upset about this post but in reality these Pakistani Talibaan are defaming Islam. I have always supported Mujahedeen fighting against USSR. After the exit of Red Bear, the Jihad came to an end. Then the fight started between Iran and Saudia to bring a Pro Govt in Afghanistan. Pakistan become a part of this war mainly because, Historically Iran has supported India on Kashmir issue and on some other areas. Iranian Govt hates Pakistani Govt (Not Pakistan nation) due to their Pro-USA stance.

    This tug of war resulted in a volatile state of Afghanistan which is now mainly ruled by Talibaan, Northern Alliance, Karzai with the help of NATO forces and various warlords who change their support according to the weight of $$$ or power.

    Presently it’s a fact that unlike Iraq, America and NATO are loosing this battle in Afghanistan and hence Obama has decided to bring more army to tackle the increasing insurgency by Talibaan. So while the Talibaan in Afghanistan was on the rise, a group of Pakistani tribal people, like Mungal Bagh etc (who used to work in a truck stand as a cleaner and used to charge the truck driver for using the facilities at the truck stand) decided to cash this success and gain power.
    As the tribal people are very simple and are very religious, its easy to fool them if you are a cunning person (its true about most of the villagers that you can easily fooled them with your sweet talk, beard and few Iyahh from Quran.

    These people obviously get supports from India and Israel but it comes through the Karzai govt who is the worst enemy of Pakistan (And number one friend of this **** Zardari) The only way you can get rid of this support is either getting rid of Karzai (Which I believe ISI is working on it) or be friends with him (which probably Zardari is trying to do it but mainly he wants to keep Americans happy as they trust Karzai more then Zardari or any Pakistani.

    So Back to the Topic!
    What are the various ways of stopping these Talibaan? (My concern is suicide attacks and implementation of their type of Shariah law which is not acceptable to most of us.) What do they want? Simple…. They want “Shariah”
    Now let’s work on the final solution:

    1. Implement Shariah (which I hope every Pakistani Muslim wants) in Pakistan BUT first arrange a referendum to find out that what percentage actually wants Shariah.
    2. Lets say 2 provinces want Shariah with over whelming majority and 1 says No mainly and the other is 50:50 (If all says Yes or No then it’s the end of this point/discussion)
    3. Implement Shariah in those provinces where majority votes for it.
    4. While we are working on referendum, Arrange an all party round table and include all tanga party or khota parties. Lock all ulemas and political leaders who have anything to say positive or negative about Shariah. (Bring even Altaf under special protection and with MI5 body guards and American assurance) in a big conference hall and tell them that they will come out from that hall/hotel once they come to a conclusion. This conference should be telecasted through all TV channels (all day) so that the nation knows who is saying what? Give them also a dead line of 30 days. No one should be allowed outside till they reach a conclusion or they have a heart attack.
    5. So now we have referendum and we have group of Ulemma and politicians who have agreed on implementation of Shariah and the way it will be implemented.
    6. Tell Talibaan that they can come on TV and do Manazra and buy TV time to have their views broadcast before the referendum (and so can be done by anti or pro Shariah with their arguments/points)
    7. Arrange a Lashkar of tribal’s and deal with them that if a Taliban tried to enter in any area (New areas other then swat) then they should be attacked and stopped by force. No Negotiation and these Lashkar should be supported by army and not by regional deputy commissioners or ministers.
    8. All Maddrassah should have a central registration and every Talib should be registered. No foreign student should be admitted (No new students) until we sort out this mess!
    9. Every Suicide Bomber or any one involved in anti-Pakistan activates should be properly investigated and if a Link is found between a Maddrassah and a suicide bomber then that Maddrassah should be closed and all kids/Talib should be admitted to another Maddrassah (I recommend introduction of state run Maddrassah where they should have the latest facilities with proper Quran and Sunnah teaching (liaise with universities in Syria, Jordan, or any well reputed Islamic university) The head of that Maddrassah should be cautioned for the first time but the actual teacher of that particular student should be sent to jail and put on trial. If another incident happened from the same institute then the head of Maddrassah should be sent behind bars and he should face a trial.

    I think we all can add some positive suggestions to stop these suicide bombers and tackle these Talibaan who are de-faming ISLAM then doing any service. I shall add more points once I can come up with more after some brain storming... TILL then I would be interested to hear from all of you.

    Thanks

    Posted 3 years ago on 07 Apr 2009 23:19 #
  2. Mulla,
    What do you think of these suggestions? Do you think some or none can be applicable?

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 1:35 #
  3. MashAllah all of these points are valid with varying degree of acceptability....some of them will, due to their original intention are really good and might produce excellent results....

    I would only supplement these point with two points of my own..

    a) USA led coalition forces evacuate Afghanistan.
    b) Pak army change its policy of sending troops into Tribal Areas....

    the above two points shall help to mitigate the threat and then an honest referendum with a proper formatted question, like instead of asking the people, "do you want shariah" , it should be asked instead, "do you want shariah compliant democracy", cause the first question will be considered a kufr if answered "no"..while the second question allows the transitory time frame for our 150 year old institutions to reconfigure themselves with the sharia's modernized modalities.

    I am a bit not sure that our current political leaderships will be able to deliver any positive results for our people , but i do agree that we lock them up in a hall and then blow the hall up and blame on some guy Lanat Ullah Meshood from area in afganistan! :)

    So , the above two points along with your suggestions and some more to come from other friends of ours shall be a good insight into this matter.

    Mulla!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 3:07 #
  4. :)

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 15:48 #
  5. Very good suggestion Mulla Jee..
    And then these buggers and so called think tank of america and Pakistan are still confused about Talibaan! Surely if there is a will then there is a way...

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 16:05 #
  6. Will indeed post constructive responses soon.....

    .... its no.1 on pending list!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 16:08 #
  7. U better oriel (b4 attack by HM or IJAY) LOL

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 16:10 #
  8. Fahim23
    Member

    Only if we replace Interest based banking system, we have Shariah already in Pakistan. Chopping off hands or beheading is not the Shariah!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 16:23 #
  9. Just replacing Interest based banking is not "Shariah" Infact the so called "Islamic" way of Mortgage in my view is holding your nose from behind your neck...

    Your sucide bomber is not killing themselves for interest free banking... LOL (sometime I really laugh my head off on people's responses.. No Offence brother! ;-)

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 17:06 #
  10. Fahim23:

    Please explain to us what is the difference between "interest" and "usury" ?

    Mulla!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 17:20 #
  11. The alphabets U S U R Y are not used in INTEREST or vice versa

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 17:23 #
  12. This is like a Sudani Colleague of mine who gets non halal chicken from the market and say Bismillah before eating. (Allegedly there is a sudani fatwa that you can eat chicken if you say Bismillah b4 eating... different ISLAM according to people/countries..

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 17:25 #
  13. no its not a fatwa, its a hadees of Rasool Allah, cause zabiha and hallal are two different things...

    zabiha is the cutting portion of meat on which the name of Allah is to be read and some other points, but hallal is a different idea, for example if the sudani stole the chicken and then did zabiha and read the name of Allah on it along with the entire quran, the chicken wud not be hallal....so see its two different things..

    but there is a hadees that, the meat which you will consume , shall be read the name of Allah on before eating...and blood letting is ignored by most of north africans including african arabs ....

    same is the issue with usury and interest! but we need more explanation on this..

    Someone should find the hadees and then lets argue about its real translation versus our ulemas's ****!

    Mulla!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 17:29 #
  14. HafizAli
    Member

    Taliban has set a gr8 example of an ISLAMIC GOVT in Afghanistan. Although thre were some bad aspects because of limited human tendencies. But it was a gr8 ISLAMIC GOVT.

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 18:15 #
  15. Im sad Hafiz Ali Sahb is somewhere hidden behind cables of the world wide web, because I would dearly like to ask in person where he thinks the GREATNESS lies in the Talib's version of Islamic Govt.

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 18:17 #
  16. HafizAli sab means that Talibs implemented a very good model based on "their thinking" they were very very good in implementing "their understanding" which is totally opposite of the prophets thinking!

    thats what he means ?

    Mulla!

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 18:25 #
  17. Hafiz Sahb, greatness speaks for itself.

    People of the world, by that I mean Muslims as well as non, would flock towards a 'great system'. Despite all the problems with Muslims wherever they may reside, I still believe we are searching for this great system under which we may find peace, prosperity, freedom to express our faith and develop as a progressive, forward thinking and successful homogenous group, within the world.

    The version propounded by the Taliban is rejected, unfavoured and repelled by the Afghans as well as their Western educated leader, as well as those in his Cabinet, as well as the occupying forces, as well as those that know of Islamic jurisprudence and science of Hadees, as well as those that no nothing of Islam.

    Greatness cannot be repelled in such a way.

    Surely it is flawed in its methodology. In its implementation. In its harshness. In its lack of mercy for those it is meant to protect.

    Surely 40,000+ refugees would not be begging and living in squalor in the other major cities of Pakistan, if the Taliban's Shariah implementation was so great???

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 18:41 #
  18. Fahim23
    Member

    @Khan_Sahib

    I know the suicide bombers (which are not mine by the way as for some incomprehensible reasons you have mentioned them as "your suicide bombers"). Frankly I don't even know what exactly they want except that surely they don't want Islamic system.

    My contention is that if muslims ever got a chance to freely develop a system of Governance they will choose Democratic System with Judicial System of West which is largely based on islamic system, Many tools and products of Financial System of west with special feature that the Exploitation is minimised (not eliminated for example hoarding and profit taking which are exploitative measures but legally speaking cannot be completely eliminated even in Shariah). We will not have a unified single State or one Single Khalifah. But nation states with their respective Leaders. All leaders will be chosed via Vote. All the laws will be made by Parliament with the consultation of Scholars. And the system that is given in Pakistani Constitution is the most suitable way for making laws, which says that all laws will be made by parliament with deliberate effort that they do not contradict Quranic injunctions. But if they do by human errors every citizen has the right to go to supreme court and plea against that law.

    @Mulla

    Usury and Interest has no difference they are both tools of exploitation.

    I am going to write my personal views and understanding just as humble student of Islamic Banking system. Lets suppose two persons cut a business deal. One of them provides Capital other provides technical skills. If the proposed business went successful then the profit is shared on predecided margines say 40/60. Otherwise the loss is shared on same terms. It is completely legal in my personal opinion. Currently many banks who claim to provide Shariah compliant products and services somewhat follows the above mentioned priciple.

    However, Lending (qarz) cannot be given on these terms. An individual has to lend when s/he has to meet his basic needs that also include setting up business but for sustaining purposes. For lending it would be strictly forbidden to claim any extra money thn actually lended. I hope you got my point.

    Posted 3 years ago on 09 Apr 2009 23:58 #
  19. netengr
    blocked

    There is no taliban at all in Pakistan and afghanistan ,Its a joke ,sazish by the government and the Jews ,There never been Taliban and Alqaida ,There is no cross border terrorism ,No camps in Pakistan ,non circumcised hindus are in Sawat ,Ajmal Qassab was indian ,According to Imran Khan (before the bombing ) Lal Masjid was a joke ,staged by the government ,and gazi brothers was a mushraf agent ....

    so whats the point to discuss "defeat taliban " ??? they do not even exist by IK,Qazi and other leaders

    Posted 3 years ago on 10 Apr 2009 0:54 #
  20. @netgrr,

    They don't exist really...
    LOL

    Shariah bill was proposed by MQM and implemented by Nawaz. LOL

    Posted 3 years ago on 14 Apr 2009 20:12 #
  21. rafi
    Member

    Talibans comprised of one ethnic group called pashtoon. Here is the demographic composit of population in Afganistan.
    Pashtoon 42%
    Tajik 27%
    Hazara 9%
    Uzbek 8%
    Others 14%

    Talibans, during their rule massacared Hazara and Tajik majority cities. Being pashtoon they consider themselve superior race than other afghan ethnic groups. Talibans are Whabi sunnis who consider themselve as only torch bearer of islam. Their intolerance for other sects of Islam expecially shia is not hidden, they forced mass migration of shia segment during their rule. Talibans are equivalent of Mideaval era Chritianity when power of Church started the process of inquistion, under that process representatives of Pope go to different towns and cities to find out if there is any anti-christ live among them. On suspician they burn those suspect alive. Talibans are no different then them.

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Apr 2009 16:15 #
  22. Northern Alliance did the same who are mainly shia muslim. Same happens in Pakistan where sunni extremist (non wahabis) bomb shia imam bargahs. Few years ago these sunni extremists killed over 60 Doctors in karachi and hyderabad alone!

    So its not that Talibaan are the only black sheep in afghanistan. In talibaan era the production of opium touched Zero % which never happened before or after them in afghanistan history, neither were women abducted in day light and raped in kabul(please read the human rights commision reports on afghanistan)

    This blog was or is not meant to crticise one group and praise or show the other group as "innocent" as both groups have commited crimes which are punishible under any islamic, secular or any form of past or present law!

    In my humble view, the only way you can get rid of these extremist is to implement Shariah law which is derived from quran and not a mere reproduction of any Mulla's Islam.

    Time will tell if my arguments have any weight but being pakhtoon myself, I can understand the psyche of these people better then any person who is alien to this land.

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Apr 2009 17:39 #
  23. rafi
    Member

    Khan Saheb
    I think you become senstive when I used the word pashtoon. It is historical fact that pashtoon consider themselve superior than Hazara and Tajik, I am not saying something new. No killing is justified.

    Under Taliban era, following events occured:
    1. Deterioration in medical facilities, expecially for women and childredn.
    2. Increase in death during pregenency for both mother and child.
    3. Per capita food intake of local population decreased.
    4. From 1994-01, any attempt to struggle for knowledge was buldozed.
    5. Overall society lived under fear and intimidation.

    Is this kind Sharia we are talking about?

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Apr 2009 20:23 #
  24. Rafi Sahib,
    I am not here to defend Talibaan as I am the biggest critic of them though it does upsets me that when these pashtoons were fighting against russians then they were Mujaheedeen and Talibaan backed by pakistanis and the ISI and now after 9/11 they are pashtoon terrorist.
    As regards to the thought process of superiority, I totally disagree with u. It sounds like that you are also infulenced by "The Kite Runner" then knowing the actual background.

    Pukhtoon is no doubt a very proud nation and try to understand the psych and background. This is a political blog or I would have posted a very informative blog about pukhtoons. But in short if u know the concept of "@ukhttonwali" which is the code of honour that makes a pushtun so proud.
    Even if u say the word "bhaigharat" to a traditional pukhtoon, he will kill u straightaway.its difficult to explain in this short reply but I would get back to u on this issue/point.

    And yes I agree with all of your points and this is the reason I am against them.

    Posted 3 years ago on 17 Apr 2009 22:45 #
  25. Heather_Ali
    Member

    @KhanSahib...
    Looking at your points retrospectively, I think that your suggestion would have achieved the target instead of our present day mess!
    People like you should be in Govt and deal with issues like this. (I really mean it !)

    Its an Irony that People like "Zardari" are the head of state or else scholors from this forum would have done a lot better and performed rather then just political slogans.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 16:32 #
  26. crocodile
    Blocked

    Khan_sahib: What ANP did for pashtuns?These crooks are the same drunkards as those bhangis in Karachi and Musharraf or present day zardari.The point is that its time not to further divide pashtuns by taking "taliban" or "no Taliban" brand as they are portraying in media.The point now should be to talk with each and every Pashtun no matter how radical he is.These other in Army and politics m*ther F**kers are all sell outs and they would sell pasthuns too.Back stabber are not friend of anyones.So the new leadership within Pashtuns is needed who can think independently on either nationalist base or religious base.Unite on either of these grounds and these sell outs wont be a problem anymore.But by sidelining Pashtuns with religion or Pashtun with secular mind you are not helping pasthuns or solving their problems,rather you are becoming part of the problem. Pashtun,be it Secular mind or Religious mind must unite or face the demise by back stabbers and sell outs.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 17:27 #
  27. Heather_Ali
    Member

    @croc,
    Khan Sahib is against ANP, PPP , PML(N), PML(Q) and MQM :0)
    Also, I will disagree with you about the suggestion of uniting all Pushtuns without any difference. People who are involved in Bomb blasts and flogging and killing innocent people should not be identified Pahtuns but they should be isolated. If you do that, you will be surprise to know that, majority of pashtuns will be united under Pushtun Umbrella and a very few will be identified as extremist elements.
    I have a Pushtun friend who is origianlly from FATA. According to her and some of my own personal research, a Pakhtoon can never slit some one's throat. he will shoot you on your chest and not even on your back. So People who are slitting throats, flogging women in public are not Pushtuns but agents of India,USA,Israel being helped by Afghanistan Govt.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 17:58 #
  28. crocodile
    Blocked

    "killing innocent people should not be identified Pahtuns but they should be isolated"
    Agreed but how?
    yea by dislocating 3million pasthuns?.Few hundred agents would enter any other agency and "Army" would go there and dislocate a million more?...and you want to keep it on and on? where would that stop?

    "a Pakhtoon can never slit some one's throat. he will shoot you on your chest and not even on your back. "

    Agreed.

    Now your solution then? Let it happen and let the nature sort it out? Watch the millions getting displaced by back-stabbers?.My grand dad fought British and he fought British successfully.But we never got displaced like that as these backstabbers are doing'.And I am not talking about Ordinary Pakistanis from other regions those poor folks themselves are suffering from these sell outs.They should have brought revolution a long a time ago against these sell outs but can not.So whats your solution?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:07 #
  29. Heather_Ali
    Member

    1. EDUCATION
    2. NEW YOUNG EDUCATED LEADERSHIP FROM PUSHTUN BACK GROUND!
    3. PENETRATION OF RELIGIOUS PARTIES LIKE JUP BY EDUCATED, YOUNG PUSHTUNS TO STOP THEM USING PASHTUNS.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:19 #
  30. crocodile
    Blocked

    1. EDUCATION
    Agreed

    2. NEW YOUNG EDUCATED LEADERSHIP FROM PUSHTUN BACK GROUND!
    Agreed

    3. PENETRATION OF RELIGIOUS PARTIES LIKE JUP BY EDUCATED, YOUNG PUSHTUNS TO STOP THEM USING PASHTUNS.

    I would add...

    Why not more,as in, penetration of Army,Politics,think tanks,religious parties,resource generation,research...etc..
    Though these are long term project and have to be started by Pashtuns or Some sincere leadership not by sell outs.

    But what for now? We wait till our kids are educated,self-sufficient and aware? What solution for now?Should we wait for some Mehdi?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:26 #
  31. Heather_Ali
    Member

    You should do some brain storming croc!
    You can't ask a girl more then her IQ! :0)
    I will think about it.
    We need Khan Sahib here too!

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:31 #
  32. crocodile
    Blocked

    sister..I really had no intention to make you feel cornered.My heart cries and my soul is in constant pain.I have always sided with the poor and I would always be with the poor and weak n have fought intellectually (and in high school physically...lol..and in university again intellectually..)for the rights of ordinaries.Be it poor,students or children or women,I am with them.

    Response against violence with more violence would give chaos that we are seeing today?Is that some sort of real solution or as some conspirator have said "order from chaos"...kind of thing?If that is the case then are we sure we are following the right path and not the path of those "conspirators"?Are we really free?

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:40 #
  33. Heather_Ali
    Member

    Thanks Croci Bro.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 18:58 #
  34. NNL
    member

    My Suggestion is that its not only the Pukhtuns that need reforms its the Overly Dominating Province where every source of corruption leads too.

    If you ask me the people of Punjab also have to take part in the cleansing of the political structure along with the Baluchis, Sindhis and Mohajirs.

    We need to establish some form of reforms in education first. Just by outsourcing the education to an NGO who is clearly anti Islamic isnt the solution.

    Most of us have seen the Western education system and we can quite efficiently delegate things which we think are unnecessary and then move on.

    We have to keep our culture and our customs alive too.

    I think there is enuf potential in and outside pakistan to change it far better than most of the world. The point are we really willing to do it.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 20:20 #
  35. crocodile
    Blocked

    "Overly Dominating Province where every source of corruption leads too"

    Offcourse.Like I said an abrupt revolution is needed and only Punjab can change the course of history if it does that!I certainly understand the point for education.It was sad and shocking to see the books of my neices and nephews full of imaginary European warriors(Tory etc..even though the existence of that city is questionable) and European history (whatelse you gonna find in Oxford press printed books or from same source...and then we complain about kalay-angraiz..lol).No mention of our very own warriors,intellectuals,historians and thinkers.Though while teaching I had always told them you just do it for marks but there are lot of problems with these text books and then my personal lecture each time i taught them.Atleast I had seeded some desire for truth in them.Though I can not compete at vast level against this intellectual crime against our culture,languages,traditions and kids.

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 21:00 #
  36. NNL
    member

    Exactly we need to sort out education first.

    Just by adopting what the west is teaching or exporting doesnt mean its right we have the sense and sensibility to distinguish right from wrong.

    And lets not adopt their culture of supplying condoms to teenagers. ;)

    Posted 2 years ago on 30 May 2009 21:08 #
  37. Pir_Rokhan
    Member

    Taliban is infact the brainchild of ISI which was created by Gen Naseerullah Babar in 1994.ISI created it to destabilise Afghanistan due to its strategic depth Policy against India. The Pakistan army and ISI stabbed them in the back in 2001 after which they fired back at Pakistan army and ISI.

    ISI had to create fake Taliban to counteract the real Taliban. ISI and Army inducted their people from various nationalities like Uzbek,Tajik and even army men who started destroying swat and doing all those notorious activities to defame Taliban. That is why Taliban had to kill any one who proved to be from intelligence agencies.

    Pakhtuns and ANP were shocked when they came to know about the fact.Fazluallah and Sufi Mohammad were all ISI people who tried to justify the killing of the local innocent people by Pakistani forces in the name of operation and justification for the establishment of a Cantt.The Army operation was not intended to kill Taliban as most of them were inducted by ISI and army themselves to infiltrate into the lines of real Taliban who raised against the atrocities of the Pakistani state.

    It was the two weeks deadline by the US which compelled the army to do operation in Swat and as they dint want to kill their people who were pretending to be Taliban so they killed thousands of innocent Pakhtuns to show to the US that they have done operation against Taliban.

    There is only one way to get rid of all terrorist and extremist groups in Pakistan ISI and Army should stop training and facilitating these religious fanatics to use them against Pakhtuns and Afghanistan. The moment they stop working on this hidden agenda peace will be established on Pakhtuns land as well as in Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Aug 2009 21:44 #
  38. We were expecting such a 'brief' from Khan_Saheb himself after his return from Pakistan........

    Posted 2 years ago on 01 Aug 2009 22:21 #

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