PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Taliban are winning!

(29 posts)
  1. shimatoree
    Member

    From London Telegraph-

    Robert Blackwill, who was Condolezza Rice's deputy as National Security Adviser in 2003 to 2004, will use a speech at the International Institute of Strategic Studies think tank in London on Monday to call on President Barack Obama to make drastratic changes in the war's objectives.
    He told The Daily Telegraph that the surge of forces launched last year to stabilise Afghanistan was "high likely" to fail and that the death toll in the conflict was too high a price to pay.

    "The Taliban are winning, we are losing," he said.
    "They have high morale and want to continue the insurgency. Plan A is going to fail. We need a Plan B
    "Let the Taliban control the Pashtun south and east, the American and allied price for preventing that is far too high."
    Mr Blackwill said that there had been a decade of "innumerable errors" in the Western approach to Afghanistan.
    Most notably American policy shifted after the atttacks on September 11, 2001 from expelling al Qaeda from its Afghan sanctuaries to crushing the Taliban and installing a democratic government in Kabul.
    The result was that America now had 1,000 soldiers deployed for every one of the estimated 100 al Qaeda operatives now believed to be based in Afghanistan and was hemorraging $100 billion a year on the conflict.
    A review of the Afghan war that Mr Obama will present to the US public in November, represents an opportunity to change the contours of the conflict. The US committed an extra 35,000 troops to Afghanistan in attempt to reverse Taliban gains.
    Mr Blackwill believes the US should only seek to defend those areas dominated by Afghanistan's Tajik, Uzbek and Hazara minorities by pulling out of bases in the south.
    By accepting that the Taliban would overrun Kandahar and other big population centres, the US would threaten the Taliban only if it allowed al Qa'eda to reform or if the movement started to encroach northwards.
    "How many people really believe that Kandahar is central to Western civilisation. We did not got to Afghanistan to control Kandahar ," he said.
    "Our preference at the time of the attack was for the Taliban to give up al Qaeda not to change the regime. Mr Obama himself and the administration say what we are trying to do in Afghanistan is to destroy al Qaeda."
    Alongside misdirected strategy, the "utter corruption" of the government of President Hamid Karzai had eclipsed Nato's hopes to keeping the Taliban at bay after its defeat in late 2001.
    In contrast to Mr Blackwill's view that Afghanistan's army and police could not be made ready to control the whole country, Liam Fox, the Defence Secretary, said the forces would assume responsibility by 2015.
    "If we were to leave before 2015, a point at which on current progress we expect to have achieved our security aims, it would be a shot in the arm to violent jihadists everywhere, re-energising violent radical and extremist Islamists," he said.
    "It would send a signal that we did not have the moral resolve and the political fortitude to see through what we ourselves have described as national security imperative."

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 3:10 #
  2. Ouch! (No, no. Not for the West. I can just see our SecLibs squirm. I can't wait for the usual "This is a LIE!" screams...):)

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 3:38 #
  3. Not Possible
    Blocked

    There is no glory for any muslim in the facist version of Islam Talibans have inherited from the rogue Alay Saud and the facist Kings of Banu Ummyah and Banu Abbas.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 4:21 #
  4. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    NP, Alay Saud version of Islam is with the corrupt governments of MidEast and Iran. Taliban version is Sahaba RA version and will insha'Allah crush the combined might of the worlds super powers plus surrogate armies of Iran, India, Pakistan....

    1)Iran has facilitated the occupation of Afghanistan.

    2)India has now 29 consulates in Afghanistan with hundreds of military attache in the guise of protecting an army of Indian workers and also has a airbase in next door Tajikistan.

    3)The less said about the Pakistani army the better. Nothing to hide.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 4:30 #
  5. @Not Possible
    Ironic that someone with your nick was the first to naysayers to be here :)

    "There is no glory for any muslim in the facist version of Islam Talibans"

    So you accepting the victory? Here is some more good news:
    :-P

    Bombshell from London
    THE London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), is the world’s leading think tank for military affairs. It represents the top echelon of defence experts, retired officers and senior military men, spanning the globe from the United States and Britain to China, Russia and India.

    I’ve been an IISS member for over 20 years. IISS’s reports are always authoritative but usually cautious and diplomatic, sometimes dull. However, two weeks ago the IISS issued an explosive report on Afghanistan that is shaking Washington and its Nato allies.

    The report, presided over by the former deputy director of Britain’s foreign intelligence agency, MI-6, says the threat from al-Qaeda and Taliban has been "exaggerated" by the western powers. The US-led mission in Afghanistan has "ballooned" out of all proportion from its original aim of disrupting and defeating al-Qaeda. The US-led war in Afghanistan, says IISS, using uncharacteristically blunt language, is "a long-drawn-out disaster".

    Just recently, CIA chief Leon Panetta admitted there were no more than 50 members of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Yet US President Barack Obama has tripled the number of US soldiers there to 120,000 to fight Al Qaeda.

    The IISS report goes on to acknowledge the presence of western troops in Afghanistan is actually fuelling national resistance. I saw the same phenomena during the 1980’s Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

    Interestingly, the portion of the report overseen by the former MI-6 Secret Intelligence Service deputy chief, Nigel Inskster, finds little Al Qaeda threat elsewhere, notably in Somalia and Yemen. Yet Washington is beefing up its attacks on both turbulent nations.

    Abandoning its usual discretion, IISS said it was issuing these warnings because the deepening war in Afghanistan was threatening the west’s security interests by distracting its leaders from the world financial crisis and Iran, and burning through scarce funds needed elsewhere.

    The IISS’s findings are a direct challenge to Obama, Britain’s new prime minister, David Cameron, and other US allies with troops in Afghanistan. This report undermines their rational used to sustain the increasingly unpopular conflict. It will certainly convince sceptics that the real reason for occupation of Afghanistan has to do with oil, excluding China from the region, and keeping watch on nuclear-armed Pakistan.

    The report also goes on to propose an exit strategy from the Afghan War. Western occupation troops, IISS proposes, should be sharply reduced and confined to Kabul and northern Afghanistan, which is mostly ethnic Tajik and Uzbek.

    Southern Afghanistan – Taliban country – should be vacated by Western forces and left alone. Taliban would be allowed to govern its own half of the nation until some sort of loose, decentralised federal system can be implemented. This was, in fact, pretty much the way Afghanistan operated before the 1979 Soviet invasion.

    Meanwhile, the war in Afghanistan is turning against the increasingly wobbly western occupation forces. The US-installed Afghan leader, Hamid Karzai, openly prepares for direct peace talks with Taliban and its allies – in spite of intense opposition from the US, Britain and Canada.

    Pro-government Afghan forces are increasingly demoralised. Only the Tajik and Uzbek militias, and Afghan Communist Party, both supported by India, Russia and Iran, want to keep fighting the Pashtun Taliban.

    Taliban leader Mullah Omar last week proclaimed the western occupiers were rapidly losing the war. He may well be correct. Nothing is going right for the US-backed Kabul regime or its western defenders. Even the much-ballyhooed US offensive at Marjah, designed to smash Taliban resistance, was an embarrassing fiasco. Civilian casualties from US bombing continue to mount.

    Europeans are fed up with the Afghan war. Polls report 60% of Americans think the war not worth fighting.

    The IISS bombshell comes on the heels of the most dramatic part of the British Chilcot Inquiry into the origins of the invasion of Iraq. Baroness Manningham-Buller the former head of Britain’s domestic security service, MI-5, testified that the Iraq War was generated by a farrago of lies and faked evidence from the Blair government. What we call "terrorism" is largely caused by the western invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, she testified.

    The truth about Iraq and Afghanistan is finally emerging.

    Afghanistan may again prove to be "the graveyard of empires".

    Eric S. Margolis is a contributing editor to the Toronto Sun chain of newspapers, writing mainly about the Middle East and South Asia.
    Comments: letters@thesundaily.com

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 4:40 #
  6. Not Possible
    Blocked

    Things are never constant, only constant is change, this is just a evolution in a certain phase there is no finality of it. Taliban have badly maligned the image of Islam and abused its tenants, it would serve US and Isreal to keep them going.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 4:58 #
  7. @NP
    "Taliban have badly maligned the image of Islam and abused its tenants, it would serve US and Isreal to keep them going."

    Ah, so Taliban are winning because US/NATO WANT them to win. Marvelous! Suppose that would be true for TTP as well?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 5:11 #
  8. shafiq12
    member

    Taliban are winning and cross is losing. Bad time for Cross lovers

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 5:40 #
  9. I saw this article first thing today. Right, I thought, interesting. I eagerly began reading. And stopped abruptly when I got to this para: "Abandoning its usual discretion, IISS said it was issuing these warnings because the deepening war in Afghanistan was threatening the west’s security interests by distracting its leaders from the world financial crisis and Iran, and burning through scarce funds needed elsewhere."

    So that's the game, I thought. Draw troops away from Afghanistan and set them upon Iran instead.

    Friends, that's not how it's supposed to be. Either we are Muslims or we're Kaffirs. Which one is it going to be? The Afghan Resistance has done a splendid job for us to protect Islam. The Iranians, in their way, have also brought the Muslims forward. Stop playing off one against the other. Our enemy is most definitely the West. What Super Soldier calls the cross. Only S.S., by so doing you miss out on the most important component of this particular cross, the David Star. This is a crusade, sure, but its leaders this time are all Zionists.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 6:30 #
  10. junaid
    Member

    they have already won the war. moreover, i think it is tajikistan or maybe pakistan is next in the que.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 7:44 #
  11. @junaid
    "maybe Pakistan is next in que"

    Next in queue? We are already being "serviced" (we are way ahead in war violence than Iraq and Afghanistan). Maybe you should refrase it as :"i think it is tajikistan or maybe Iran is next in the que." ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 7:51 #
  12. Come on friends, you really put your US miliary power on a pedestal, don't you? I doubt very much that the West can take on either Tajikistan or Iran now. Daydreaming is always possible. By the time the Afghans have finished with them, there's only one place they'll be heading for, namely "home".

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 8:00 #
  13. junaid
    Member

    nota

    i got you on that and i hear you. although, kashmir needs them badly...so much sufferings, so much injustices

    mirza

    i was referring to talib's next march

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 8:05 #
  14. Good, good. Thanks for rectification. I went and had a look and indeed you were. So sorry for the misunderstanding.

    Now just this: Tajikistan is already theirs, the AR's, I mean. No problem there. Written in stone. Neither Pakistan, nor Iran will ever be under Taliban rule. That too is written in stone.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 8:21 #
  15. achtung
    Member

    let us suppose taliban win. real test will begin than. questions will be

    1) will they able to sustain there win? (they had control of 80% of afghanistan in past. they were over thrown in few days)

    2) will they able to win hearts and minds of afghan people?

    3) will they able to bring peace in afghanistan?

    4) will they able to win recognition of world community?

    without above questions the win will be meaningless.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 10:30 #
  16. achtung, as far as I can make out, it's "yes" to the first three questions. As for the last one, tha answer runs something like: who cares? If we're still worrying about the world community by then, we're simply idiots.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 10:48 #
  17. rashidsaleem
    Member

    I don’t think Taliban are winning from any angle. Pakistan army on the directive of its elected democratic government has crushed the militants and broken their chain of command. It is articles like these that create the panic and we must avoid such stuff.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 10:53 #
  18. toamin
    member

    rashidsaleem

    what are you smoking dear ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 10:56 #
  19. Western media says that Taliban are winning. Al last after a long and thorough beating they acknowledge this fact.
    Taliban are Afghan themselves who formerly as Mujahideen fought the Russian invaders for almost two years and later were joined by their Pakistani, Central Asian and Arab brothers (and Saudi and Americans supported them with arms and finances). Since then they are known as Taliban.
    They were successful and kicked out Russian @ss out of Afghanistan and now they are providing a good thrashing to American invaders and their allies who thought they could replace Russian invaders.
    Some naturalized Americans specially those assigned the role of zionist neo con pithoos are quick to react by not acknowledging this ground reality coz this time it is their paymaster’s @ss at stake.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 11:05 #
  20. achtung
    Member

    "As for the last one, tha answer runs something like: who cares?"

    mirza ghalib bhai

    your answer "who cares" tell me that they will not be recognised by the world community. then that will not be real win. in todays world you cannot live in isolation specially when dependent on other countries in almost all fields. that will make life of people very miserable. if you not able to improve life of people then you win nothing. it may bring in another anarchy and bloodshed. plz dont say "dekhi jaey gi" when time come. you should have vision what it will be like after your wishful win of taliban. what you say?

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 12:28 #
  21. wantinsaf
    Member

    We are looser because we indulged in an unecessary war,a war adovocated and ignited by enemies of Islam for their own vested interests.
    We had better correct ourself first before we jump to correct someone sitting in Afghanistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 12:43 #
  22. Let us see who will be isolated in the foreseeable future.
    China, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Korea, Central Asia, Pakistan, Russia, Iran....Are the East.
    China and India are the rising economies. The others will join.
    Nobody would be interested to tow the line of West like US, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Australia, and Canada.
    Defeat is inevitable for this evil western alliance in Afghanistan. Africa and South America is leaning towards China.
    One can easily visualize how things are going to be for failing bloodsucking capitalist economies.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 12:47 #
  23. kami1232
    Member

    Talibans are our enemy.Karzai is not our friend. Northern Alliance is against us.Hizb Islami blames us.We have no good relation with any mentionable stake holder in Afghanistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 12:54 #
  24. ammarisb
    Member

    We have to look at all the broader proportions that are causing militancy.
    At the policy level we need to develop a comprehensive counter strategy based on an understanding of beliefs, mentality, background, common aspirations, ideology, motives and organizational structures of extremists.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 13:15 #
  25. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    We already know the aspirations, ideology, motives mentality, beliefs and backgrond and organizational structure of the master terrorists-US and NATO. They were responsible for genocide of half billion human beings in slave trading, extermination of native populations, colonialism, savage world wars and the ongoing war on terror.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 13:24 #
  26. achtung, you ask a very fundamental question there, and I'm certainly not going to say: "dekhi jaey gee." That's not quite how I react to things. I do have a vision for the future. I've even set it down on Pkpolitics here and there. Now I've stopped saying anything. But take a look at what Patriot writes below you. It translates in part my own reading of the time to come which I divide into the Freeworld and the West. When the reconstruction moment comes, Afghanistan will get all the aid it needs from the Freeworld.

    It's time some people in Pakistan at least opened their eyes to the hastening downfall of the West. Patriot has done so. Others can do so as well. These are their last wars, unless of course they suddenly launch a nuclear disaster. They are capable of it. That is why we are all proceeding so carefully.

    Posted 1 year ago on 15 Sep 2010 13:31 #
  27. ammarisb
    Member

    As a nation we need to stand committed to the cause of eradicating the menace of religious extremism from our society. This war cannot be won without the support of the general public so it is pertinent that we take ownership of this war. No country can fight a foreign battle as all sovereign states strive for their own survival and well-being in the international arena. Abandoning this war at this critical juncture would be devastating.

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 18:14 #
  28. quaidkamazaar
    Member

    yaa Imran Khan and the likes need to realize that ^

    at this point, you cannot abandon the war. its kind of too late... infact, it is tooo late.

    Imran Khan is such a softie in this regards... opposite of the MQM.

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 18:19 #
  29. shafiq12
    member

    quaidkamazar

    Imran Khan's realization are lost with world cup 1992. He is useless like Nawaz, Mushraff and Zardari.

    Posted 1 year ago on 16 Sep 2010 18:25 #

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