PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

The New 'Flogging Video' Is Out...

(27 posts)

  1. nota
    Member

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/09/27/15488031.html

    ISLAMABAD - Turbaned men in Pakistan gather around a woman with a black
    hood over her head, pick up large rocks and repeatedly throw them at her
    until she lies motionless, stretched along the ground.

    The stoning in the northwest of the country was apparently carried
    out by Pakistani Taliban militants, incensed because she was seen out
    with a man. It was shown in a video obtained by a Dubai television
    station.

    Of course it is not of an incident that happened yesterday. So why is it being released now (and that too from Dubai?). That it is an attempt to manipulate public opinion is clear from the story itself:, as it mentions the Swat spanking video and how it was used:

    Such videos aren’t unique. Last year Pakistanis were outraged after
    footage widely aired on television showed militants in the northwest
    Swat Valley publicly flogging a teenage girl accused of having an
    affair.

    The government had virtually ceded control of Swat to militants under
    a deal to end fighting there and some Pakistanis, disillusioned with a
    police and judiciary critics say are corrupt and ineffective, initially
    welcomed the Taliban in the former tourist resort.

    That video greatly undermined any public support the Taliban had in
    Pakistan, and this one, with its stark brutality, could further sour
    public opinion against the al Qaeda-linked Taliban fighters waging a
    campaign of suicide bombings which have killed civilians, police,
    security forces and soldiers.

    Question I have is:

    1. Is it in take away attention from the Pak Army killing kids video?
    2. Is it to take attention away from NATO attack inside Pakistan (killing at least 50)?
    3. Is it to build support for the new army operation for which Rs. 120 Billion has just been approved in the mini-budget coming out Oct 1?

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:04 #

  2. nota
    Member

    You can watch part of the video here and hear Council of Foreign Relations interpret it for you ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:16 #

  3. haroonyahya
    Member

    not prooved first issued video
    local us agents use it now as rally and upgrade this issue in coming days for political benefit
    no one know truth
    one of the best way to attack islam
    wait and watch

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:26 #

  4. haider3
    member

    nota, no more videos, for heaven's sake, no more of those. They are also the easiest thing to manipulate. As for your three questions, why only one answer, why not three answers, too? Three unwholesome reasons for spreading their poison?

    Anyway, the video is of such bad quality, to my weak eyes it could be showing anything or nothing at all. And I really can't bear to hear a US genius once again laying down the law about something he knows nothing at all.

    As a blogger friend puts it: "US drivel, void and trivial."

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:26 #

  5. nota
    Member

    @MG
    "why only one answer, why not three answers, too? Three unwholesome reasons for spreading their poison?"

    Oops -- was going to add 4: All of the above but forgot. Don't want to edit the post knowing the way the new editor handles changes so let's just add it here:

    4: All of the above

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:30 #

  6. haider3
    member

    Right, I agree. They have grown so out of hand, they can produce any old thing and claim this is what you are seeing. When nothing else remains, we get the stoning of women, actually a rare enough occurrence,  thrown straight in our faces.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 19:35 #

  7. barackosama
    Member

    @Nota,

    Appreciate your effort in exposing what shariat-e-Muhammadi means in the wrong hands, as some of our well respected members like to see. Keep posting such videos. Thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 20:33 #

  8. d0ct0r
    Member

    "Man also face the same kind of very tough justice.."

    "As carrier of honor,so women in a sense held in higher regard(by taliban) .."

    "Its quite positive in the sense that women are viewed and respected in terms of carrier of family honor.. "

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 21:20 #

  9. d0ct0r
    Member

    Unlike the army's video of shooting down young kids,this one is too grainy,I am not sure how they concluded that it was indeed a woman that was being stoned,i can't make out a woman in that video . Some one prove it that it was a woman and not some western forces soldier that they're thrashing..

    Posted 1 year ago on 27 Sep 2010 21:34 #

  10. nota
    Member

    @dOctOr
    Indeed. Also interesting is the extra sensational account of the video having been "smuggled out" from Pakistan through Iran to reach Dubai.
    Why? There was no need for this "smuggling"

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 6:44 #

  11. toamin
    member

    this is not shariat-e-muhammad unless they have witness who saw the action with his eyes as needle/thread (example given in hadith) which makes it practically very difficult or unless the sinner confesses herself/himself. two people seen together doesn't warrant execution.


    this is another propaganda episode by same people.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 6:55 #

  12. shirazi
    Member

    Mob has no right to kill someone be it Sailkot or this incident. I am surprised all those who were united against Sailkot incident are trying to play down this incident. I don't see much difference between two.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 14:26 #

  13. nota
    Member

    @shirazi
    No surprise you feel that way and you are again trying to peddle the same argument you did in the Sialkot thread. To you ALL sanctioned punishments are "barbaric" (cutting hands of thieves, chopping the head off for murder, etc.), right?

    Whatever it is (even indeed it is sangsar -- personally I cannot tell much from watching the video) it is NOT "mob justice" in any way and claiming that it is is spinning it.
    ;-)
    P.S. By saying so I am not condoning it, so please don't spin it that way either. I am just saying equating the two is totally wrong. But I will say it is much less cruel than strafing the whole crowd from a gunship helicopter or blowing a hundred to shreds with a hail of hellfire missiles. :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 14:48 #

  14. shirazi
    Member

    @nota


    "it is much less cruel than strafing the whole crowd from a gunship helicopter or blowing a hundred to shreds with a hail of hellfire missiles."

    Absolutely no disagreement there, look at sheer numbers in one case you are killing one or two individuals and in other potentially hundreds.

    "ALL sanctioned punishments are "barbaric" (cutting hands of thieves, chopping the head off for murder, etc.), right?"

    No not ALL sanctioned but stoning to death, chopping nose off besides the ones you mentioned are certainly barbaric.

    You along with Harris and MG were among the most vocal on Sailkot incident and rightfully so. Now because of your strong religious beliefs you guys are trying to play it down by challenging the authenticity of video and all that. 

    I don't want to get into that debate. Like you I have no means to prove authenticity of tape. But if it is authentic or if it is happening anywhere even though it didn't happen here stoning to death is comparable (sanctioned or not) to what happened in Sailkot and is as barbaric and deplorable as Sailkot event was.   

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 15:24 #

  15. nota
    Member

    @shirazi
    "You along with Harris and MG were among the most vocal on Sailkot
    incident and rightfully so. Now because of your strong religious beliefs
    you guys are trying to play it down by challenging the authenticity of
    video and all that."

    I don't think I am trying to play down anything, just pointing out what it is really about. Tell me honestly:

    • Do you think those peddling this video are doing so because they give a damn about some woman getting killed or are they peddling it because of its propaganda value?
    • Do you think the video is recent or has the timing of its release been chosen?
    • Do you think there is any truth to the "it was smuggled out..." melodrama? Was there any need to have it to be smuggled out?
    That is all i am asking. And again I will repeat that equating this with Sialkot case of "mob justice" is a very faulty argument.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 15:50 #

  16. haider3
    member

    All I've said about this particular video is that it's so badly made, I couldn't make out what was happening. Judgement, if judgement there was, had nothing to do with values and all to with technical quality. Either I'm too stupid to see what a video is showing or my eyesight is too dim - I wouldn't put either past me, truth to tell.

    But I assure you shirazi it has nothing whatsoever to do with my strong religious belief. That is a fact. and yet another fact is that I didn't find this video convincing.  

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 16:11 #

  17. nota
    Member

    "Either I'm too stupid to see what a video is showing or my eyesight is too dim"

    Ditto :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 16:16 #

  18. shirazi
    Member

    @nota & MG


    On quality of video and motive (propaganda war) behind it to broadcast it we all are on same page. 

    The difference in opinion, if any, is if it was authentic video or hypothetically speaking if it (stoning to death) happens anywhere would you condemn it, raise voice to out-law it, declare it totally unacceptable as you did in case of Sailkot, I would. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 16:40 #

  19. Dusky
    Member

    I guess the director of this video is same as the director of Sawat and Pak army video...

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 16:42 #

  20. haider3
    member

    shirazi, No ifs and buts, so would I, condemn it in no uncertain terms.  In no way could such a "flogging" or "stoning to death" be justified, expecially in the absence of a fellow male delinquent and any reference to how such a judgement was passed.   

    P.S. Dusky, perhaps your perception might not be too wrong either.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 16:51 #

  21. shirazi
    Member

    @MG


    Thank you. I expected this from a gentleman like you. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 17:17 #

  22. haider3
    member

    shirazi, This in not the first time. You've  always been very kind to me. Many, many thanks.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 18:14 #

  23. nota
    Member

    Hmmm...
    Guess who said:

    He warned against losing sight for future operations. “Public opinion,
    media support    , army’s capability and resolve are fundamental to our
    war,” he said.
    (So is this an attempt to mold "public opinion" ? You bet!)

    For answer, click here
    (btw: You might also like to read the full article this quote comes from...)

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 21:12 #

  24. haider3
    member

    Gen Kiyani, was it? It all grows murkier by the minute. Who's doing what at any given time is beyond me. As much as regards the SC-govt dealings, as the labyrinthine activities and non-activities of the Pak army.  All I still know clearly is that they should stop droning FATA into the next world.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 22:13 #

  25. d0ct0r
    Member

    Last time when Kiyani 'secretly' visited American aircraft carrier in the Indian Ocean,he made it clear to Americans that he was having great difficulty in selling this sham war on terror to Pakistani public,there they cooked up and conceived this idea of using such videos to shape up and influence Pakistani public perception.  They used that concocted flogging video produced by that Minallah lady,later it was exposed found to be fake,with just Rs 0.5 million they cooked up and produced the whole drama.

    But currently as things stand our nation is morally,ethically and psychologically dead. 274 illegal drone attacks this year alone and our foreign office have audacity to say that those NATO/ISAF helicopters involved in 2 helicopter attacks inside pakistani territory  violated our sovereignty and we have no written agreement with them. Drones have been violating our sovereignty multiple times every day now and our FO is completely mute about that,could they share any written or verbal agreement that they have with Americans?.. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 22:14 #

  26. barackosama
    Member

    Last time when Kiyani 'secretly' visited American aircraft carrier  in the Indian Ocean,he made it clear to Americans that he was having great difficulty in selling this sham war on terror to Pakistani public,there they cooked up and conceived this idea of using such videos to shape up and influence Pakistani public perception.

    There was Mikey, Mike's subordinate. Shuja and Kiyani on the deck and someone else tapping on the conversation when they cooked up flogging video strategy under the blue sky and on the vessel in deep blue see.

    two people seen together doesn't warrant execution

    Shariat-e-Muhammadi in Taliban's hands does warrant an execution .... of the woman only.

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 Sep 2010 23:35 #

  27. saqib55
    Member

    The writing is on the wall. The next attack on US by global jihadi movement may be successful. With that, the US response will be to bomb Pakistan.

    This is win-win situation for global jihadis and US. Only loser will be Pakistan due to its own bad policies.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 Sep 2010 3:52 #

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