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The True Face of Pakistan Army

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waseemca
Member

Please check this Video " The True Face of Pakistan Army"

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 3:42 #
amin1924
member

Army leaders under fear of US threats have to either challenge US or fight with it's own citizens.

So obviously they are towing a cowardly line.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 3:47 #
Pak Truth
Member

This is a cut/paste prepared by some Indian agent present on this forum for tarnishing Pakistan Army image. The Helicopter was busy in rescue operation during earth quake 2008. It is worth mentioning Pakistan Army does not have such type of Helicopters. Most of the photograph shown in this movie has been taken from Afghanistan. In fact Indian, American and Israel Agents are some local criminals to carry out blasts and against Pakistan Army. Mullah Umar (True Taliban leader) time and again categorically said that sp called Pakistani Taliban are not suppose to fight against Pakistan military but some how Indian snakes are poisoning innocent locals on the name of Islam. Pakistan Army never favoured anti Pakistan elements. Uzbek, Arabs and Afghani settled in Waziristan are playing with the lives of locals and using elders, children and women as human shield. We must condemned brutality of Indian agents. Locals should drop the weapons and abide by the state laws. Indian agents presents in Waziristan and Swat use to beheading soldiers and officers of Pakistan Army, destroying girls schools, lashing women in the public, abducting innocent people for money some . Can we justify all this on the name of Islam and resistance against America? The solution to the issue is, (1) Government and politicians should start condemning all type of terrorism whether is by so called Pakistani Taliban or state terrorism of India and USA (3) FATA should be declared as 5th province of Pakistan (4) All facilities be provided to the locals (5) residents should be given employment (6) carrying of weapons should be forbidden (7) all foreigners should be expelled (8) militants and terrorist should be eliminated at all cost (9) religious leaders should condemn militancy openly.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:21 #
waseemca
Member

This is not a cut and paste from an Indian Agent. I am as Pakistani as you but I dont support Pakistan Army. Army is not a holy cow.

Stop this trend of calling every anti army as Indian. I am Pakistan and I believe in People's Power!
Pakistan is for the People and not for the Army

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:25 #
Shock
Members

@waseemca

I agree with Pak truth that this is a cut and paste video. You are a Pakistani, but you don't support Pakitan Army what an absurd statement.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:39 #
amin1924
member

Who defined that supporting Pak Army actions is called Pakistani?

We take things case to case bases and can criticize Army if it is doing wrong, why not?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:41 #
Pak Truth
Member

Pakistan Army is very much part and parcel of Pakistani nation. The officers, soldiers and men are not being paid by any foreigners. They are fighting the war against militancy on the direction of elected representatives and on the demand of the nation. I am also against army’s role in politics. You should know that present army Chief is the one, who just after taking over his office pulled back officers employed in civil departments. In fact Pakistan Security forces and ISI unearth the plot against Pakistan. Their soldiers are scarifying their lives for the nation “SALUTE TO THEM”. I being proud Pakistani Pakhtune of NWFP am well aware of the current situation. It is easy to comment and foment hate against army while sitting in New Delhi, Karachi or in Mumbai.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:47 #
waseemca
Member

What a Naive accusation. Just caz I don't support army actions so i am not a Pakistani?

What about if somebody is against policies of Water and Power Development Authority ( WAPDA) what if somebody Dont like Pakistan Railways or doesnt Like PIA ( Pakistan International Airlines) ...? To me Pakistan Army is just an organisation like Pak railways etc etc....and I don't have to support army to prove myself a Pakistan! Period!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:49 #
amin1924
member

Pak Truth,

Ok, so you agree that we can criticize Army when it does wrong and praise when it does good.

Mush did many things wrong and today military also considers them wrong, but back then they were right per military because he was head of the institute.

Army has become mercenary force to fight foreign war to help foreign agenda, this is what is happening.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 5:51 #
semirza
Moderator

@waseemca
No offense intended.
If you do not like Pak army than you may be having reasons for that. I don't agree that you should be called names like 'an Indian' based on an assumption if one dislikes army than he is an Indian.

On the other hand 'Pakistan Army is just an organisation like Pak railways' may not be true either. Pakistan army as a military establishment remains to be at the forefront and cannot be equated with civilian establishmets what so ever as they differ at the very core in all matters.

However, army is being misused grossly at the moment or not, remains a different matter altogether.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:21 #
waseemca
Member

@Semirza

I agree with you to some extent but see my point was that my being Anti army doesnt make me a traitor or non Pakistani!
The reasons I dislike Pakistan army are :

1. Pakistan army has always intervened in Pakistani Politics and has illegtimately toppled several elected Goverments.
2. Pakistan Army desecrated the Constitution of Pakistan many times.
3. Pakistan Army Generals openly Shun Civilians of Pakistan
4. Pakistan Army has no respect for Judiciary.
5. Pakistan Army made us Lose Bangladesh.
6. Pakistan Army Does Extra Judicial Killings namely Murder of Nawaz Akbar Khan Bugti
7. Pakistan Army has Killed More Pakistanies than external Enemies

and a lot of other reasons!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:29 #
semirza
Moderator

@waseemca
Exactly, and you do have reasons. Why not discuss them one by one and add positively to this thread topic.
Your efforts will certainly be appreciated.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:35 #
waseemca
Member

@semimirza

lets discuss my postulate No. 1 "Pakistan army has always intervened in Pakistani Politics and has illegtimately toppled several elected Goverments"

General Ayob, General Yahya, General Zia and General Musharraf all came through backdoors. When did the Pakistan people vote for them? they just toppled democractically elected Governments and as such they massacred our votes and Mandates.
Plus , Retired Army Generals like Hamid Gul and that Brig. Imtiaz(Billa) openly bragged on TV talks shows how they toppled and how they bribed people. Isn't this a shame?

Is this why countries keep armies? An Army is kept to Defender borders against external threats....but Pakistan Army is more into formation of Govts , conspiracies, Martial laws, extra judicial killngs.....and thats totally Rogue and unacceptable in a Civilized World!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:44 #
Changination
Member

you must be Imran Khan or another character with the same delusional system. without pakistani army u would have been living in stone aged sharia system!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:44 #
amin1924
member

Don't you know people are already living in stone aged life without electricity, gas, food, security etc etc

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:56 #
semirza
Moderator

@Changination
'Without Pakistan Army u would have been living in stone aged sharia systems'.
This may divert disucssion that should remain focused on Pakistan Army and not 'stone aged Sharia System'.
I hope I made it clear.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 6:58 #
Changination
Member

you mean this thread should be focussed on the deceptive original post and to ignore the real value of pakistani army and let lies be discussed only?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:02 #
semirza
Moderator

What should be done is that discussion should be on both issues. Like you said the 'real values' of Pakistani Army and about 'reservations' members may have.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:08 #
Changination
Member

you got to be kidding! is this a blog or some dictatorial space where people are told exactly how they should blog...?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:12 #
waseemca
Member

@chagination

If you want to discuss sharia system then open another thread. But Since i have started this thread I would appreciate if we can stick to the topic and discuss Pakistan army and its role in context to whats going on in Balochistan and NWFP.

Thanks

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:16 #
semirza
Moderator

@waseemca
General Ayob, General Yahya, General Zia and General Musharraf all came through backdoors. When did the Pakistan people vote for them? they just toppled democractically elected Governments and as such they massacred our votes and Mandates.
--------------------------------------------------------
To further move ahead I have some questions:
-Ayub Khan-Which democratically elected government he toppled?
-General Yahya-Was he the one who held the only 'fair election' till date, and he removed who to come to power?
-General Zia-The motives and the circumstances that led to the removal of an elected govt (PM Z.A.Bhutto)?
-General Musharraf-We all know how he came to power but still we may discuss it further!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:16 #
waseemca
Member

Ayob was continuation of Sikander Mirza's Martial Law and then Ayub turned over control of Pakistan to Commander in Chief General Yahya Khan on 25 March 1969, He was the President's most loyal lieutenant, and was promoted over seven more senior generals in 1966 to the army's top post.

Ayob cheated in elections against mader-e-millat Fatima Jinnah .
Plus. Whatever motives General Zia had in his mind....his removing Prime Minister of Pakistan and hanging him to death cannot be justified. Even if Bhutto was at fault or was corrupt...its not Army's task to punish him . What army did with bhutto through military court was extra Judicial!
Similarly Musharraf was also on the wrong side of the fence when he toppled Nawaz's Government.
Army has no right to remove elected governments. Only us the People should decide who would rule and who wouldn't and we will do it by voting and not by military coups!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:24 #
Changination
Member

first post here was posted by waseenca, so it was actually by you? the name of this thread is true face of army and I am saying that true face of pakistani army is protecting you from barbarians who would have taken you back to stone age by ruling you under sharia,how is that not in line with the heading thats on this post?

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:24 #
semirza
Moderator

What if I say that Ayub Khan has done more good than harm to Pakistan. General Yahya was not a 'key stone' or the only reason towards the creation of Bangladesh!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:25 #
waseemca
Member

@Changination

My post is not about Sharia. If u had seen the video then you would realize that my video is about collateral Damage and giving collective Punishment to People of Swat, North and South Waziristan
My Video speaks about the Human cost of War in the North and has nothing to do with Sharia and stone age

Thanks!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:27 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I can't laugh enough on the notion 'Without Pakistan Army u would have been living in stone aged sharia systems'.

My laugh in not ending. lol. ONLY the most stupid! or the LEAST informed of us would utter such nonsense.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:30 #
waseemca
Member

@Semirza

Coming to your supposition " What if I say that Ayub Khan has done more good than harm to Pakistan. General Yahya was not a 'key stone' or the only reason towards the creation of Bangladesh! "

Bhai Saab there is someting called " Legtimacy" Leme give you an example

Lets say that Mr A is Married to Mrs A. So legally Mr A is Husband of Mrs A. Now there comes this man called Mr B ...who is well built than Mr A and is better in Sex, He abducts Mrs A and Rapes her. Now if you were the judge what will you decide? I hope you wouldn't conclude this ; " Since Mr B is better in sex and is taller than Mr A so He has every right to rape Mrs A?"
Sir....Legtimacy I repeat Legtimacy is the Keyword here.!

I hope you understand!

Conclusion " Only elected Representatives have the legtimate right to Rule a Country"

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:32 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I can SO VERY EASILY say, DUE!! to Pak Army we have LOST!! our last 60+ years of progress in Pakistan.

I have SO MANY facts to englighten you Changination, that by the time I'll be done, you'll wish you were dead, unless you'r a 'baighairat' that is, lol :D

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:34 #
waseemca
Member

@Changination

The People i showed in my video , the kids, the women, the elderly and ordinary citizens have nothing to do with beheadings.
Pakistan army's policy of giving collective punishment is utterly wrong.
I rest my case and I won't reply to you any further. You seem to be off topic anyways

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:36 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I reject! this BS! of beheadings, bombings of schools.

I'v seen this reasoning repeated to justify conducting military operations. I don't think more than 50 people were affected because of this. I see through the lies now.

This is nothing compared to the suffering which Pak Army + Pak Govt. has brought onto people of Pakistan in the last 10 years alone.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:37 #
waseemca
Member

@Haris Khan

You are right...for the people of swat and waziristan its something like; " The Talibs came and cut their fingers off.....and then came the Pakistan Army that totally chopped their necks off...so Pakistan army proved more fatal than the talibs"

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:39 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Changination: I will warn you again, GET LOST!, or I'll drown you DEEP! in the sea of facts.

GET! LOST!! Dude

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:40 #
semirza
Moderator

@waseemca
Your analysis since Sikander Mirza's martial law till General Musharraf's is correct.
If we keep in mind that Pakistan was denied its 'fair share' of assets including military hardware right after partition. Than a military action by India on Kashmir that resulted in LOC (Kashmir), Pakistan army had to look out and seek military supplies vital for its defenses.
Liaqat Ali Khan visited US but returned empty handed as Pakistan had declared a 'non alligned foreign policy' since independence for five more years to come the reason why LAK was unable to win American support.
During the same time Iran nationalized its oil resources and than American policy changed. Liaqat Ali Khan was assasinated and we agreed for American bases and some military hardware flowed in. In the meantime Pakistan has been securing the same from the open market, at least 15 sources were supplying weapons to Pakistan that were still not enough.

Don't you think that Pakistan was induced into planed circumstances that led Pakistan fall prey to American vices right from the times of Ayub Khan.

Did Ayub Khan went out for dollars for himself or he sought out weapons for defense that were later used in 1965 war, an Indian agression.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:49 #
semirza
Moderator

My Point is that Pakistan army has been used over and over again starting right from the times mentioned. Only than it was covert and now it is totally overt.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:53 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@semirza: Mirza sb. I don't accept the notion 'Pak Army has been used'. I'll say the opposite is true.

Pak Army HAS! been using this nation for itself like a colonial power who rules over its slaves.

We CANNOT! allow this kind of reasoning to justify torturing, killing, abusing of innocent Pakistani citizens.

THIS has GOT! to STOP!!!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:57 #
waseemca
Member

@semirza

Yes surely Ayob Khan was the first in the long que who took aid from USA. Ayob was a very ambitiois military officer and he did whatever he could to keep power to himself. I am not sure if he used all these weapons against India.....for defence of Pakistan because if he was really true to the cause of Kashmir he would have attacked India prior to 1965 when China and India went to war against each other. That was the Golden Chance for Pakistan to reclaim Kashmir back. So, I doubt Ayob's sincerity in 1965 War .

The war of 1965 was an escalated version of Kargil started by Musharraf. Whenever these power hungry General's want the throne or want to pronlong their rule they do these small battles and wars!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:57 #
semirza
Moderator

@Changination
Your are being warned, not to post offtopic or attempt to divert this ongoing discussion. And there is no need to be personal with members by calling their comments 'filth'. I have taken your post out for the reasons mentioned.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:57 #
waseemca
Member

@HarisKhan

I am at the same page as you. Pakistan army is not a baby that gets used by USA. Pakistan army is well aware of the fact that only Big daddy USA can feed it...and they need the feed even if its comes at cost of killing your own countrymen.
Pakistan army is to be blamed at 100 percent for its actions!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 7:59 #
waseemca
Member

@Changination

Lets remain focussed on the bigger picture and the actual discussion and not worry about what color of socks does haris khan wear or....if he says salam or not.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 8:03 #
semirza
Moderator

Well we are here to agree or disagree being rational in our discussions.

I do not think that Pakistan was ready to take over Kashmir militarily. What ever we have as 'Azad Kashmir' has been an effort by the very tribals after/on whom Pakistan army is being kept busy right now.

The 'chain of command' is here and used to its fullest extent. Middle order military ranks and file simply cannot say NO to orders that are coming from ABOVE, and this is what I am talking. Right from the begining our ARMY TOP BRASS is somehow playing in the hands of anti Pakistani forces.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 8:08 #
semirza
Moderator

@hariskhan
I would appreciate if you will maintain control on language even when you are being emotional 'as a patriot'.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 8:10 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I will improve! myself

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 8:43 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Changinaiton: I don't want to put up hard facts about Pak Army's doings.

I don't want lies to bring about the situation where people are pushed against the wall. If I see that happening, I'll be forced to put up some very ugly information, which will make everyone question your credibility.

It is said, when a nation is about to die, it starts talking about its Army.

I don't want to reach that point where I HAVE to talk about Pakistan's Army.

DON'T! PUSH! it

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 8:49 #
truepakistani
Member

taliban are illegimate sons of -------------------.

Everyone knows this fact.

Anyway, above mentioned video/pics are baseless.

Taliban fathers have rightly taken serious action now.

We hope in future, army dictators/generals will never gave birth to Taliban like elements.

Army is paying very hard the deeds of Zia & Mush.

We appreciate and fully support our army in this war against basterds.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 13:42 #
toamin
member

I think you missed the secret deal made by Army to let them get away so that they don't face any resistance!

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 13:45 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@truepakistani: Army hasn't stopped creating lashkars'.

We'r going to deal with ALL of these entities at the back soon enough INSHALLAH.

EVERYONE will soon know, Taliban are not to blame. Pak Govt. + Pak Army is.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 14:40 #
raheb
Member

waseemca "Pakistan is for the People and not for the Army"

And army is of people from Pakistan or NOT?

Difference is one can be aware of own identity but YET can be infected and play in the hands of others. Wassem you may be a Pakistani but fully in indien views unconsciously, so what shall one do with your conscious pakistani-ness"??????

raheb

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 19:53 #
Migel9
Member

We need a PAKISTAN PEOPLE S ARMY..This one is totally in control of its pay master, as you people heard the injured soldiers comments.

Lanath on these Qadiani generals, time to hang these munafiq
by their non existence B A L L S..Cowards..Brown slave agent army of Christian jewish west.

Foot soldiers need to rebel.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:09 #
truepakistani
Member

pakistan army can not be blamed as whole, main national culprit is always army general who breaks the law & constitution by gun.

Army dictator always ready to act according to wish of americans in return of long term power/regime.

Same happened by Ayub Khan, then Yahya Khan, then Zia and then Mush.

All these dictators not even given americans interference in our internal affairs, became slaves but also pave the way of breaking Pakistan into two parts (east pakistan), loosed Kashmir wars, given birth to mulla/jehadis, given birth to Taliban and introduced large scale financial corruption, kickbacks, commission, plots, Banglows etc. etc.

Now, army and nation both are paying very high cost of ex-army dictators.

Now, its our duty to support our army to clean the misdeeds of their ex-bosses.

Army establishment can not fight enemy without nation's support.

Its in the interest of the present army establishment to disassociate from misdeeds of their ex-bosses so that, all the nation support them sincerely.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:10 #
Migel9
Member

I have to concede this point to you True pakistani.Generals with 12th grade education and a foreign power the GREAT SATAN behind these retards is very dangerous.

Posted 2 years ago on 14 Nov 2009 20:17 #