PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

time limit on ruling/government

(32 posts)
  1. Dear All AoA

    I have heard this aguement from certain islamic groups that there is no limit of ruling in islam and rather it is Haram to restrict tenure of the ruler.

    They cite the example of Sayyedna Usman RA that he refused to resign by saying that " I can not leave the Ridaa which is given to me by Prophet SAW)"

    The other aguement is used is that as the issue is the implementation of islam so as long as the leader is implementing islam he can not asked to leave.

    Personally I dont agree with these notions and to me there must be limit on the length on the ruling. This is also necessary to restrict people creating a personality cult, autocracy and most importantly to make sure there is always steady flow of new ideas and blood in the politics.

    I also agree with the current restriction on becoming the PM/CM for third time.
    I would also like to share a anecdote which I read. During the protests against president Charles de Gaul of France, one american journalist asked one of the protestor on the streets of Paris that why people were suddenly against Charles de Gaul only after couple of months when he was elected (3rd time for 7 year term) as president with a huge majority. To the astonishment of the journalist the protestor said we are sick of seeing his face everyday.

    As human being we dont like routines and get bored with regular, unvarying, habitual, unimaginative ways. So it is natural and logical that people get fed up with the same thing everyday. I think this is the very reason that in many countries they have adopted a time limit on the ruling. Even in Britain, where there is no limit, there is a internal part mechanism whereby prime minsters are forced out after 10-11 years to save the institutions and to keep the faith of the people in the system.

    I would like to know the opinions of the learned forum members on this issue whether in support or against the term restriction (secular and islamic both).

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 12:33 #
  2. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I don't want leaders to change every now and then, as long as they;

    (1) follow Islam's guidelines
    (2) operate within the bounds of Islam

    When we elect leaders, it brings division, it incites hatred, competition, jealousy, the emotion that one has been left behind in looting others, etc etc.

    Factions are created as a result. Those who want to be good, remain dormant. They live their lives like good people.

    Those who lust for having more and more in this life, they spread confusion, corruption, lawlessness, deceit, crimes so only they! gain, even if it means destruction of lives of others, to satisfy their lust to have more and more.

    This gives many the incentive, the chance to exploit other people, to destroy others's lives.

    Not having the to run for power every now and then will;

    (1) end this uncontrollable lust for power
    (2) effectively END division
    (3) end jealousy
    (4) end lust of having more and more!, and more!! of materials of this life (power, money, land, women)
    (5) end lust
    (6) end the need to life a materialist life
    (7) end lust for power, money, land, women, materials, etc etc
    (8) end lust to destroy others's lives to benefit from it
    (9) etc etc

    If general public doesn't have the chance to run for power, if power remains in the hands of those who are best in operating within the bounds of Islam, general public will return to living good, law abiding, healthy, productive lives.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 13:14 #
  3. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I like the era of Kings better than western democracy.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 13:42 #
  4. Dear HK

    you said
    "I like the era of Kings better than western democracy."

    Kia Jalal-ud-din Akbar, Shah of Iran aur Zaahir Shah bhi is mein shaamil hain ;-)

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:06 #
  5. RajputPuttar
    Member

    And it will be decided by HK that who is

    1) follow Islam's guidelines
    (2) operate within the bounds of Islam

    Talliyaan. :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:08 #
  6. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Faarigh Jazbati: I'm talking about Kings operating within the bounds of Islam.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:28 #
  7. RajputPuttar
    Member

    tu harris mian , who will decide that who is operating with bounds of islam ?

    And which islam ? Shia / sunnia/wahabi/deobandi/braveli ? Which islam ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:30 #
  8. Dear HK

    "@Faarigh Jazbati: I'm talking about Kings operating within the bounds of Islam."

    As per my understanding, the very concept of Kingship is against islam so how could you justify a King in Islam.

    I believe you need a break as constant commenting on the forum is taking its toll on you.:)

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:32 #
  9. zingaro
    Member

    @HK .. Bhai ji is there any concept in Islam about to be a King?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:34 #
  10. Dear RP/ HK

    I would humbly request to restrict the discussion on the time limit for ruler/government.

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:34 #
  11. RajputPuttar
    Member

    FJ

    I would really appreciate that if u could tell me that who will decide that ruler whether king or PM or khalifa is operating under islam ? And which islam as well ?

    IF there are 180 m people in pakistan , i can bet there are various interpretations of islam exist . Who will sort out all this fussy issues ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:44 #
  12. Dear RP

    I strongly believe that the best thread for your questions is the Tabanni thread.

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/islam-important-issue-related-to-ijtehad-and-difference-of-opinion

    I opened this thread to have a discussion on the time limit for ruling as one aspect in 17th amendment was the restriction on 3rd term for PM/CM. I want to know the arguments (rational, logical, Fiqhi etc)on this both for and against.

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 14:55 #
  13. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zingaro: I have no idea.

    @Faarigh Jazbati: I have already mentioned my opinion about 'time' for a ruler in my first post on this thread.

    I hope I don't find this thread to be yet another attempt at joking around from you and other Muslims.

    For people like RajputPuttar, if he's a Muslim, I would recommend a swift beheading. Why ? Because;

    (a) his only interest is to disobey Islam
    (b) to sideline Islam
    (c) to abandon Islam
    (d) to talk against Islam
    (e) to talk against anyone who is loyal to Islam
    (f) he spreads confusion, dissent, deceit within our ranks
    (g) etc etc

    This amounts to treason against Muslims, which is punishable by death.

    If he's not a Muslim, then I would let him be.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 15:25 #
  14. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Faarigh Jazbati: ALL Ameer of JI have been re-elected Ameer of JI untill they lived or untill they were able to serve JI, as well as all people under it. They have served JI, JI's people for decades.

    The consistent re-election of Ameer-JI back! into position of Ameer-JI is the confidence which people of JI have consistently put in Ameer-JI, no matter who it is.

    Having one leader consistently gives stability of policies that the group adopts.

    As long as that leader operates within the bounds of Quran-o-Sunnah, there's nothing wrong in having the same leader for longer periods. In-fact! its a desperate requirement of ours, today.

    ALL! Khulafa-e-Rashideen remained leaders as long as they remained alive or able to serve the Muslim nation/civilization.

    THIS! is our! way.

    You need to keep in mind the role, the duties an AMEER of Muslims will be performing.

    (1) What is the role of AMEER of Muslims ?

    (2) What are the duties of AMEER of Muslims ?

    Define them, and you'll automatically understand that you need ONE leader, who remains within the bounds of Quran-o-Sunnah, to be consistently there to lead.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 15:27 #
  15. tamaazkhan
    Member

    @admin
    I bring your attention to the following post by hariskhan. This is getting ridiculous!
    This person who, it seems, does not even have a cursory understanding of Islam, is constantly acting as judge, jury and executioner of Islamic values:

    "For people like RajputPuttar, if he's a Muslim, I would recommend a swift beheading."
    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/time-limit-on-rulinggovernment#post-134993

    I got banned for asking you what constitutes anti-Pakistan. And this guy can continue posting this c*ap unabated!!!

    Haris,
    it is clear by your level of reasoning that you are a 14-15 year old child. Son, you do not even seem to have a basic understanding of Islam, so it would be advisable that you comment on the religion after you have completed your studies.
    A million AoA's an aalim does not make.

    If you are by any chance qazi of some sect of Islam, for sure I do not want your warped interpretation of Islam to be the basis of law in Pakistan.

    And if this is JI's official version of Islam, no wonder they have not won more than 1% of the vote ever, great work by your JI ameers.
    Your posts have displayed a twisted interpretation of Islam which the majority of the country will not support, let alone allow to become the law of the land.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 16:55 #
  16. achtung
    Member

    haris bhai
    aap ney kaha

    For people like RajputPuttar, if he's a Muslim, I would recommend a swift beheading.

    kia yeh wohi justice system hy which obeys islam aur jis ka roona aap aksar rooteyb rehtey hein?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 17:10 #
  17. @hariskhan
    As per violation of COC by posting:
    "For people like RajputPuttar, if he's a Muslim, I would recommend a swift beheading."
    Consider this as a second warning.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 17:37 #
  18. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Mirza sb. Noted.

    Although, I will argue, I posted d*mn good! reasons for what I proposed.

    That is the punishment for a Muslim who abandons Islam, isn't it ? So, where am I wrong in saying so ?

    @achtung: In this instance I'm 'thinking' aloud. This is a 'recommendation'.

    This is a discussion forum. I can think aloud in discussions.

    This doesn't mean I will go forward with beheading people against the law of the land. This means, I want to discuss the prospects of this scenario. I want to discuss legal precedent for this scenario.

    In the era of Muhammad (SAW), Companions (RA, RAA) of Muhammad (SAW) who would be sitting with Muhammad (SAW) would sometimes ask of Muhammad (SAW) if they could behead someone. Muhammad (SAW) would tell how to proceed.

    The Companions (RA, RAA) of Muhammad (SAW) would propose it, but wouldn't go forward with it, unless it was sanctioned i.e., unless there was legal precedent for it.

    (1) I am a Muslim. I will not accept a Muslim who commits treason with Islam, with Muslims

    This person has consistently talked against the interests of millions of Muslims of this nation. That is unacceptable!! for me.

    (2) We don't know his identity. For ALL intents and purposes, this guy could be an Indian, a non-Muslim

    In that case, I would not propose this course of action.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 17:44 #
  19. @Hariskhan
    Enough is enough with your 'thinking aloud' that offends others straight away. Kindly think like all think normally!

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 17:46 #
  20. Dear Moderator (semirza sb)

    You clearly know my views that I am dead against banning people and I never complain about people BUT I am making an exception.

    I would request that HK should be banned not only for using foul language and remarks against other respected members BUT making a mockery of Islam and Islamic teachings.

    HK is like

    Neem hakeem khatra-e-jaan Neem Mullah khatra-e-Emaan

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 18:15 #
  21. Hariskhan blocked on disciplinary grounds for a period of three days.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 18:20 #
  22. dear semirzs sb

    Thank you. This will make the discussion forum more focussed and productive. It pains me to say that but in the larger interest of this forum if HK does not change his behavour then a longer (month) ban would be preferred.

    FJ

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 18:24 #
  23. hamarapakistan
    Member

    @HK
    (1) I am a Muslim. I will not accept a Muslim who commits treason with Islam, with Muslims

    This person has consistently talked against the interests of millions of Muslims of this nation. That is unacceptable!! for me.

    (2) We don't know his identity. For ALL intents and purposes, this guy could be an Indian, a non-Muslim

    Who are you?
    Who has given you the authority to declare a person a Non-Muslim ?
    All your ********** mentality is stopped here in declaring a person a Non-Muslim?
    One time you say "Deo-Bandi" is "Kafir", another time you say "Shia" is "kafir", and so on.....
    Who knows whether you yourself are a Muslim or a "Big Kafir", "A Munafik" from your inside?
    Stop offering "Fatwas" against other members. We don't need "Your Islam" as we understand better than you what Islam is and how to spend life within the limits of Islam.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 18:32 #
  24. @Farigh Jazbati
    I am certainly not in favour of bans or blocks. One may agree to disagree but polietly.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 18:40 #
  25. achtung
    Member

    kia hee behtar hota keh haris bhai apney jazbaat per qaboo rakhta aur un ke khilf aisa iqdam na hota.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 20:14 #
  26. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Thx GOD i m behind the computer screen and hence safe from religious fanatics till now :)

    Thx all for being rational but

    Mirza Sb,

    May i ask the rational for 3 days . The same guy was banned last week for 2 weeks and then restored after 1 week. He calls others non-mulsims and indian and whatever he wants.

    Should i consider that the forum admin intentionally leninent on these religious fanatics ? I know a lot of members who have been banned permanently . Whats the process ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 22:19 #
  27. Fahim23
    Member

    I favour following system:

    A government should be elected on collective wisdom - Through direct Elections.
    A tenure must be fixed for the elected government - 5 years sound very reasonable.
    After five years the government should be re-elected again through popular vote.

    I don't favour putting a two times or three times ban. It should be left on the people's choice.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 23:03 #
  28. RajputPuttar
    Member

    Fahim23

    totally agreed.

    Posted 2 years ago on 28 Mar 2010 23:36 #
  29. TO THE BELIEVERS

    Very good day,

    This is to invite your attention towards the desirability, in today’s World__ where no one, be it a super power or a super-populated nation, is in a position to influence events __ of an inter-state alliance for the resolution of regional and global issues.

    The present time demands a new World Order achievable through a Global Alliance of Jews, Christians and Muslims who need to get their vision adjusted to the logic of events as they have unfolded in the beginning of the 21st century. If, thus, the believers correct their course to pursue such values as conform with God’s universal plan, design and order, they will be rewarded with world leadership. Otherwise, Nature will, for the correction of course, permit the evil to gather momentum and rush with fury to a WAR ON THE BELIEVERS who will suffer substantial loss before reuniting to once again play a role on the world stage.

    While the human beings have been waging bloody wars to block the transformation of one Culture/World Order into another, the forces of nature have continued for millennia to smoothly and peacefully transform day into night and darkness into light. I, therefore, request the sons of Ibrahim (Peace be upon him) to learn from nature and be united for replacing the illuminati World Order of the Industrial Culture era with a New World Order for the I.T. Culture era.

    Having been blessed with a crystal clear vision of the centuries ahead, coupled with the expertise to develop a practical shape of the I.T. Culture, my suggestions are not only compatible with the prevalent democratic system but also have an inbuilt mechanism for the evolution of I.T. Culture in accordance with the divine order and design. In this context, briefs of the fundamental principles of “IN GOD WE TRUST”, Constitution, Smart Government and Structure of I.T. Culture Government are enclosed.

    Since, besides, the United Nations (UN) has unfortunately failed to maintain global peace and its subsidiary organs have been unable to achieve their respective objectives, we need, on the one hand, to replace the UN with a new World Organization of the Nations (WON) and on the other, establish new subsidiary organs, namely GRACE, GOOD, JOIN, TOP and PACT, a brief of the fundamental principles of each of which is also enclosed.

    Hoping we can all join hands to develop an inbuilt mechanism for Global Peace in the New World Order,

    Sincerely yours,

    SYED AMMAR BUKHARI
    Cell: +92-321-2345617
    http://www.goodgovernance.org.pk

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 6:23 #
  30. latentry
    Member

    Hariskhan

    You are no God. God hasnt given you right to judge the Islam of anyone. So how could you ask for a beheading of a fellow muslim.

    Dont take the job of GOD in your hands. Let God decide at the end of day who is better humanbeing or not. And you should better care about your IMAN and not others.

    Posted 2 years ago on 31 Mar 2010 6:59 #
  31. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @latentry: Ok, so you want to discuss this ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 02 Apr 2010 12:09 #
  32. The rules of refined social ethics are as necessary to teach today as it was centuries ago.

    http://www.maemaar.org.pk/links/purpose.asp

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 5:48 #

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