To all Bloggers( specially seasoned ones)!!

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To all Bloggers( specially seasoned ones)!!

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mariabashir
Member

Lately I 've observed that even seasoned & experienced mates are resorting to "argument for the sake of argument" rather than Discussion for the sake of education/ betterment".
I think we should stick with the latter objective rather than just wasting our & others time getting frustrated.
Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 8:14 #
haider3
member

Great, mariabashir, great! You sound like one of the few persons with sense remaining on this blog. Hope many, many more like you will join you here and turn PKP again into what it once used to be: "a university education and all for free", to quote one blogger no longer with us now.

Excellent last sentence: is it an "exchange of knowledge" we are after or simply an "exchange of ignorance"?

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 9:18 #
SufiSoul
Member

maria its a good effort by you to track back the blog to a knowledge based discussion.
I will add further that current hopeless situation of the politics and than suddenly rising of a hope after 30 oct does effect every moment of past and current.
within some time i think the previous momentum of the blog will be returned hopefully once YOUTH got it confirm that their future is safe now in the hands of KHAN.

:)

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 9:26 #
hypocrite
Member

Maria sahiba

Cannot disagree with you.

What is seasoned and what is the criteria. Someonw who has been blogging for a long time, someone who has wealth of knowledge or someone who comments a lot or there is some other definition or criteria. I hope it is not based on age as I will be considered as "too seasoned".

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 10:57 #
mariabashir
Member

@hypocrite
Its bit of every thing including age.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 11:13 #
hypocrite
Member

Maria sahiba

Thanks for the clarification.

It seems these are the days of youth and change to be brought by youths. Perhaps it makes more sense that "old but not so gold" like me shall follow what the youth say.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 11:24 #
pakistani47
Member

Maria Sahiba,

That is the reason people like me have reduced their participation. You are quite correct. People have become very intolerant they are not ready to hear views opposite to their own beliefs.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 11:44 #
asif65
Member

Thanks Maria!

کئی دنوں سے میں یہ بات لکھنا چھ رہا تھا لیکن سمجھ نہیں آ رہی تھی کیسے لکھوں اپ نے میری یہ مشکل آسان کر دی -

I agree with sufi Bahi what he says that this is a good effort to track back the blog to a knowledge based discussion.

Admin took the initiative with
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/warning-you-will-be-banned
but I think he seems to be overextended because he has not taken any step in this direction.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 12:28 #
scandinavian
Member

@maria

It is always a pleasure to have an exchange of words with you and many other bloggers, because you (and the other bloggers) want to interact and evaluate, but unfortunately it is not possible with all bloggers. Some bloggers are not ready to evaluate their own parties and are only interested in finding flaws in their opponents. I perfectly understand that we can disagree, but to oppose someone just to be on the opposite side is just not good enough. We need to get out of this poor state of mind!

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 15:38 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Most of the bloggers don't maintain any balance in supporting and criticising. Supporters try to prove their favourite Political leaders are saints and critics try to prove them as devils. No human being is perfect. Merits and demerits are attached to every person. No person in our politics is either a perfect saint or a complete devil.

All friends are requested to try maintaining the balance of realism in their expressions.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 16:54 #
mariabashir
Member

Thanks to ALL for appreciation.
@Hussain Farooqui
Its not at all necessary to be balanced while blogging.
If someone supports PTI, its opponents job to make him/her think otherwise & viceversa.
But by resorting to baseless arguments, non-issues and obscenities one will never be able to convey his/her meassage to its opponents.

Below is the example of healthy criticism on PTI official blog forum:

"SherYar Posts:55 Insaf Tiger
07/11/2011 5:06 PM

THe attitude of PTI representatives on talk shows is despicable. Same blame game, raising voices, shouting , speaking over the other guests and even throwing a glass on the others. The audience would not be able to disassociate PTI and the rest of politicians.

I think people are intelligent enough to pick things as they see. The PTI culture of lashing out at everyone and having that belligerent undertone oozes negativity and lack of maturity.
Umar cheema is the epitome of such PTI talk guests.

I am a PTI member but I am no JIYALA . I stand for PTI for obvious reasons and if this is what PTI stands for , I think I will slip back to being ONLY in fanclub of IK .

P.S= "I" in the last sentence can also be read as a metaphor."

Now this young man (despite of his youth) has the wisdom & judgment of whats good or bad for him & his party. These type of exchanges will never harm but will always profit you.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 17:31 #
LifeH2O
Member

I disagree here, most of old members (as I know) are keeping a low profile and not engaging in discussions that much.

If you are just talking about PTI, Imran Khan is respected like a Prophet and criticism (healthy/non-healthy) is considered a Blasphemy.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 17:39 #
mariabashir
Member

@LifeH2O
So why they are keeping low? its due to this intolerance.
As far as your comments on PTI ,well I dont represent IK/PTI so I ll leave it for concerned.
Thing is that we shouldnot Idolize our leaders or we will end up spoiling them .

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 17:47 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

@LifeH2O

The only blasphamy on this website is to write against PMLn.

If you arite anything against NS on the main page you get blocked. If you write/abuse Imran Khan on the main page -NO Worries.

on PKdiscuss.

everyone was free then comes the Admin to rescue NS and his supporters. Now NS supporters can abuse/ write anything against IK but PTIans are not allowed to say a single word against the hazrart mian sahib.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 17:53 #
LifeH2O
Member

@exposed I have not written that much against NS other than some known pieces about his corruption therefore I have not experienced Admin in his case.

PTIans have the same behavior like other parties - start shouting, divert, criticize or label the asker - when they can't answer.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 18:05 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

@LifeH2O

You can't even see 1 PTI supporter used any offensive/abusive words after the main page admin gave this warning to '' ALL'' users but there are atleast 3 nooners who have done this but admin is helpless against them.

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/warning-you-will-be-banned

Leadership:

PMLn leadership from top to botton has been abusing opponents at all forums from electronic media to print media and so are the supporters.

PTI leadership got some complaints and asked the supporters not to use the same language that is the leadership difference.

There are dozens of videos available where N leaders abused opponents but the admin didn't put any of those on the main page.

There was only one video where PTI's leader through a glass on opponent but admin used that video on the main page to please mian sahbaan.

I also know many of my friends who have left this site because of this biased behaviour from admin.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 18:15 #
EasyGo
Member

ماریہ صاحبہ
میرے خیال میں جب الیکشن قریب لگ رہے ہوں تو سیاسی گفتگو میں دلیل، منطق کی اہمیت کم ہو جاتی ہے
سیاسی وابستگی رکھنے والے ایک دوسرے کو نیچا دکھانے کیلیے حدود کی زیادہ پروا نہیں کرتے

ایک اوربات، خان صاحب کے کیی فینز ویبسائٹ کو جانبدار کہتے ہیں، حالانکہ ڈسکس پیج پر کبھی کبھار ہی کوئی تھریڈ عمران خان کے علاوہ ہوتا ہے

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 18:27 #
banjarbayabaan
Members

@EasyGo

in discussion forum anyone can start a thread against any party. I was refering to min page where people are free to abuse PMLN's opponents and Admin is ready to use main stories as propaganda to resue PMLn.

Now after the new WARNING THREAD there are atleast 3 nooners who have not been warned/blocked but as soon admin gets the chance he will not waste time to block PMLn opponent.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 18:39 #
scandinavian
Member

@Life

I think you are not balanced. Will you show some samples of what you have experienced?

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 19:00 #
azeemahmed
Member

People have so much empty hours and so little to say. They don't care to read, observe, analyze and articulate, because all this demands effort... and so few are willing to comply. Hence all this "argument for the sake of argument"! Wasting their time and energy in such manner... I really feel sorry for them.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 21:28 #
quaidkamazaar
Member

@ Maria

Please aap mujhe yeh bataaein....

is it worth it to call one whole party kaafir, bhattakhor, or anti-pakistani, or terrorists or something like that. is it worth it to insult some leader, even if he is not your own leader, with strong cursing words that are never supposed to be used?

i think part of the reason why arguements get out of hand is the fact that people have this disease to make allegations without any proof and also allegations that are intended to hurt supporters of one group. such words are used that totally destroy the atmosphere of respect and tolerance.

it is ok to talk against one party on a discussion board, but there is a fine line between criticism, and calling someone else zionist agent as if u yourself are some angel. this mentality that you yourself are the only savior of Pakistan is wrong. it is what i call the "zaid hamid" disease.

why can we all not come together and find commonnalities between us? we have to prove that Pakistan works and can move on because right now it looks like it does not work and we are all so indulged in past history arguments and are begging to chop each others head off somehow.

its about time that we respect each and every political party of Pakistan, because they all came out with the support of people otherwise they would never exist. we can disagree with their actions and policies, but never should we just write off a whole party and say they are all terrorist anti Pakistani people.

Posted 6 months ago on 13 Nov 2011 21:46 #
mariabashir
Member

All PTIans should read this & analyze themselves!
An Arrow from the Bow and Words spoken by the Tongue can Never be Traced Back.
------------------------------------------------------
http://jang.com.pk/jang/nov2011-daily/14-11-2011/col3.htm

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 3:53 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

The aim of all the friends on this forum should be to move towards realism. Futile mud slinging or allegations/counter-allegations are merely waste of precious minds.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 5:19 #
asif65
Member

@mariabashir

you are sabotaging your effort yourself by putting this link in this topic. It makes me sad.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 8:16 #
mariabashir
Member

@asif65
Do you believe in critical analysis?

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 8:27 #
asif65
Member

yes, but you could have open for this (third class allegation article) a new topic or in any other (anti-PTI/-Imran) topic instead of putting it here. I followed the link with hope to read something educative. But it was time wasting and I got frustrated. As HF Says:allegations/counter-allegations are merely waste of precious minds (time).

I suggest that we can make PKP better if we put +ive stuff instead of allegations/counter-allegations stuff. e.g What have done or want to do PML(N)/PPP/PTI/ etc or Nawaz/Sardari/Imran etc for the betterment of world/country/society etc.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 9:00 #
mariabashir
Member

@asif65
I think you missed my previuos post in this very thread.
http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/to-all-bloggers-specially-seasoned-ones#post-277777
Now this is not the view of Atta-ul-haq qasmi, not even neutral one; this is a view of AN INSAF TIGER on insaf (dot) pk forum site. ( you can google it)
Now if something is being acknowledged by your own party mates how can you label them as mere propaganda/ baseless allegations?

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 11:29 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Let us promote healthy minds through these forums. These forums are very goods instruments for the promotion of healthy minds. Naturally, negative use of these forums produce negative results. Misuse of any good thing produces negative results.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 12:38 #
choudhryhashmet
Blocked

I agree, this forum is a place where PTI and anti-PTI crowd likes to duke it out. It's nauseating at times because the true debate gets lost somewhere in between propaganda and outright attempts to malign each other.

Admin and moderators can't do much about it unless forum users themselves bring a change in their own attitudes.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 12:46 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

chaudhary Saheb

Rightly stated views by you! Our national institutions like Railways, Steel Mills and PIA are dying, but the focus is mostly on useless political personalities. Hardly, very few people are interested in discussing our national issues related to economy, law & order, foreign policy etc.. Threads related to the national issues have just few postings.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 12:52 #
sandman
Member

This is the internet.

Senseless arguments are a part of EVERY online forum I have visited. That includes everything from cricket to movies to technical IT forums. Why do we expect politics to be different?

This is why you have moderators....if there is not sufficient punishment, like suspensions or bans, behaviour will not change. I have seen on this forum that threads are closed and warnings given, but in the short time I have been here, I don't think anyone has got suspended or banned.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 13:04 #
mariabashir
Member

Today i got so frustrated & outraged watching Mr. Hanif Abbasi on Kashif Abbasi programme that I shattered my TV remote control to pieces.
The way he was behaving was giving me impression that he was suffering from eclamptic seizures.
Really Awful!!!!

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 20:03 #
siddiqi73
Member

Why, just cause he shattered the myth surrounding a certain King of Banigala and his shenanigans? Betting on a cricket match to pay off debts or for declaring 549 kanal piece of land as a gift from his ex-wife.

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 20:05 #
cutenice62
Member

@maria

hanif abbasi ki majbooori hai woo bechara kiya karay.....

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 20:06 #
mariabashir
Member

@siddiqi73
Because in response to query about roti scheme alleged corruption Mr Abbas responds with Seeta white .
When PTI spokesman tries to answer this banigala scandal, Mr. Abbasi starts to have hysterical smiles.
& worst of all, aligns with Faisal raza to sledge poor guy.
This was outright notorious !!!

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 20:22 #
cutenice62
Member

@mariabashir

u know that is why IK say its a **** kushti.....soaad pay kamayee halaaal hai :) or imran may itni ikhlaqi jurat hai k us nay apnay ghalat kaam ka aitraf kia hai...mian sb ki tarhan farishta nahi hai woo......

Posted 6 months ago on 14 Nov 2011 20:26 #
stingingnettle
Member

About banning and keeping the peace.

I think the banning policy here is applied in line with the rules of an 'old boys' club.

I may be wrong about this depending on what the moderator will say about my request for clarification.

Without fairness and consistency, there will be no respect for any 'moderation' that happens here.

If you want serious people to contribute, then you must be transparent and fair and must allow people to explain themselves before you ban them.

Posted 6 months ago on 15 Nov 2011 16:39 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

sting

I agree with your viewpoint that a moderator is supposed to be neutral in his expression. Naturally, no person can be totally neutral by nature, but while doing moderation, he is supposed to act as neutral.

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:00 #
shafiq12
member

Hussain Farooqui
Moderators are human -- They feel like the ordinary human --
When you make someone angry then he will use all his power to satisfy his anger by beating someone etc -- Same theory applies to a moderator --- When moderators get angry, they have power to use it against their victims -- See, Farooqi, you can't change human nature -- Meaning, it is very impossible for a moderator to remain neutral keeping bias in mind --- As bias is human trait

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:07 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

oblvion

Moderation is a job of great self-control and patience. A good moderator is supposed to demonstrate neutrality without expressing any partiality.

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:13 #
shafiq12
member

Hussain Farooqui
You said, "Moderation is a job of great self-control and patience " -- No human being is great when it comes to self-control -- I mean majority of human lose self-control and patience -- Even if it is a job, then, there isn't any job in the world with 100% results ----

moderator is supposed to demonstrate neutrality without expressing any partiality.

That is impossible for a moderator as he has got his own beliefs and theories -- If you completely brainwash the moderator then you may achieve the desired results

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:20 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

OB

Your assessment is agreeable that nothing is limitless. However, in my humble opinion, the limits should be wide.

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:25 #
shafiq12
member

in my humble opinion, the limits should be wide.

That depends upon nature of moderator, the environment in which he grew up, his education, his colleagues -- Human nature gets corruption by material desires and Man is material in his nature --

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 11:31 #
LifeH2O
Member

Worst thing about moderation on PKP is that rules and regulations (The Banning Policy) is not 'well' defined.

It exists and surely defined, but it needs to be more clear so that whenever a post or a member is going to get deleted, mods can proudly say 'didn't you see that written in policy'.

Currently they are defining policies on runtime in various posts of pkpdiscuss

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 15:57 #
stingingnettle
Member

I am totally puzzled as to who does the banning and why.

I was banned for three days a few days back and I have no idea who banned me or how they came to this decision. In response to an abusive post addressed to me, I responded in kind. On cool reflection, I could have done it better but anyway, while I found myself banned, the person who started the abuse not only continued writing but their abusive comments were not even deleted.

I am fast coming to the view that this forum is truly an 'old boys' club where people are banned on a whim. There is no way for me to know who banned me and hence I cannot ask them for any clarification.

As some of you have said moderation needs to be conducted fairly. It is not an easy job to do but there is no other way to do it.

Posted 6 months ago on 16 Nov 2011 21:04 #
LifeH2O
Member

@stingingnettle
They said that is not our right to write instead it is a privilege given by them.
So we may have to bare whatever they like or dislike about us

Posted 6 months ago on 17 Nov 2011 19:00 #
stingingnettle
Member

LifeH2O

What the good Lord giveth, he taketh away.

There is little merit in writing on pkpolitics if it is run on whims. I can't help but using a Shakespearean reference;

".......
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
......
"

Anyway, thanks for your note.

Posted 6 months ago on 17 Nov 2011 21:35 #
stingingnettle
Member

Here is what Khan_Sahib has PM me;

"I am sure you were actually molested by some khan when you were growing up.. I can see the link.... lol

Why do you want me to insult you? Cao ni zu zong shi ba dai."

Well what can I say, he must think he is the only one who speaks Chinese."

Enjoy your Khilafa dream and don't hide behind PMs. I can see from you language what kind of childhood you had.

Well, I can't stoop to your level, enjoy life in the gutter.

Posted 6 months ago on 17 Nov 2011 21:58 #
stingingnettle
Member

MODERATOR

Can an moderator take note of the filth has been PM to me by Khan_Sahib?

I hope we see some consistency in banning.

Posted 6 months ago on 17 Nov 2011 22:00 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

All are requested to abstain from derogatory language. We all are the civilized citizens of a civilized society. Let us promote healthy thought and healthy ideas as the citizens of our great society.

Posted 6 months ago on 18 Nov 2011 5:25 #