for a normal human being....:
does one need to "see" to belive ?
or
does "believing" makes one "see" things which others cant ?
Mulla!
PKPolitics Discuss » Social and Cultural Issues
to believe is to see ? or belive makes you see ?
(145 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 16:04 #
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Migel9
MemberOui Mullayahh.. here is some wisdom for you..Rumi.
“I died a mineral, and became a plant. I died a plant and rose an animal. I died an animal and I was man. Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?”
“Silence is the language of God, all else is poor translation.”
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 17:30 # -
:)
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 17:32 # -
If you’re not conditioned to believe something it can be right in front of you and you can’t see it and you can be blind about it for the rest of your life. "believing" makes one "see" things which others cant ?
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:04 # -
yes!
you got it!
its all in the conditioning!
thats the mega difference between faith and religion!
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:11 # -
One does need to "see" to believe.
But in emotional cases "believing" makes one to "see" things which others cant.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:24 # -
others cant "see" cause they do not belive!
belive is a power!
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:25 # -
I see, but I don't believe.
What is that?
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:28 # -
tectonic-plate rift in your imaan bebus
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:29 # -
you "see" and yet you do not "belive"...
what do you "see".....?
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:31 # -
And what is imaan
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:31 # -
imaan= means to learn about "spiritual reality" ....the energy which makes mankind , to learn about it is called "imaan"...
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:32 # -
@mulla
Say, for example, I see that Altaf Hussain is telling the truth, but I don't believe him and will say that whatever he said was bakwas.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:34 # -
bebus:
question no. 1: What do you see?
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:34 # -
And what is Spiritual Reality?
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:36 # -
shahzad1924
memberyes, one needs to "see" to believe
thats why even the Quran urges us to see the signs in the earth and the skies.
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:36 # -
bebus:
your are "seeing" the truth.....
thats called "seeing"....
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 21:37 # -
Migel9
MemberYour eyes can deceive you, your faith will guide you.
"Among His Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. Adore not the sun and the moon, but adore God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve. (The Noble Quran, 41:37)"
Mullayaaah..Posted 2 years ago on 24 Aug 2009 22:35 # -
they say:
Faith is to believe ,what u cant see...in return,u will see,what u believe.Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 6:08 # -
netengr
blockedto believe is to see ? or believe makes you see ?
Both
Science
to believe is to see
Faith
believe makes you see
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 10:49 # -
@Beenai:
Why was the discussion between bebus, myself and Mulla deleted?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 11:42 # -
zia m
MemberMulla
Are you suggesting Belief is a hallucinogen that can make you see?Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 12:48 # -
nope,
I am asking .....is "belief" an "eye opener" which wakes us up ?
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:04 # -
zia m
MemberHuman brain is incapable of any new ideas,other than based on experience and experimentation.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:10 # -
shahzad1924
memberit could be both ways. depends on your perspective.
we have to "wake up" to see the signs around us that would lead to belief
and once we believe, it would lead us to the true purpose in life....i.e. "wake us up"
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:11 # -
shahzad1924
member"Human brain is incapable of any new ideas,other than based on experience and experimentation."
yes, and Islam asks us to use the limited capability of the human brain to come to the conclusion of the existence of a creator.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:12 # -
zia m:
thats correct, the humain brain is incapable, thats why we have another form of intlligence in us called "consciousness" this is cognition without thought!
have you looked into this yet ?
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:13 # -
where is the visible mod. presence today?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:29 # -
do you miss him ?
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 14:51 # -
yes, i wanted them to reply at my asking why they deleted perfectly normal discussion between us and bebus?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 15:26 # -
oh! haven't you realized that they "fear" truth coming from different angles!
their "fear" is now phobia and phobia casts its shadows long before the sun shines! (sun=reality)
and quit asking questions to people who have power!
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 15:29 # -
Both mods have power due to their capability and willingness to mod.
But they should remember they are prone to mistakes just like the rest of us.
I can ask what I like to who I like. They have one kind of power, we the members have another kind of power..... its a symbiotic relationship Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 15:38 # -
i wish it was symbiotic! I wish!
"power" is a test of "character"...in Yugoslavia they say
"test a man by giving him authority"...
its one sided traffic here one sided!
but anyways, shall we return to the topic at hand ?
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 15:41 # -
Don't worry. As soon as the real-ationship stops being symbiotic we can have a changing of the guard. Nothing to worry about.
If not in Pak, in cyber-space..... in this arena idealism can lead the way!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 16:18 # -
A person who never imagined that a ship can sail on water will not see the ship even if he stands in front of it. The ship can make waves and have noisy people on board but a person who isn’t aware of the idea that a ship can sail on water would fail to see it. This will happen to a group or a person and this actually happened when Columbus came to America and the red Indians had no idea that ships existed. The ships of Columbus were there for two days in plain view but the red Indians couldn’t see them even though they heard them making noise. It was only when one of the red Indians believed that sea ships exist that he saw them and then he told the group of Indians with him and then they were able to see the ships for themselves.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 21:53 # -
amin1924
membergood point lota,
This tells us that 'previous information' is a key element in THOUGHT PROCESS
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:01 # -
zia m
MemberEmpirical evidence is the key here.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:08 # -
amin1924
memberNo, learning about human mind & thought process is the key!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:10 # -
All this leads to consciousness which is subjective experience or awareness or wakefulness or the executive control system of the mind. Anything that we are aware of at a given moment forms part of our consciousness.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:12 # -
amin1924
memberNo, consciousness is idea, and idea comes from THOUGHT PROCESS. It is key to understand PROCESS of THOUGHT.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:13 # -
amin1924
memberI give you an example, if I put a text in mandrin language and if you have never known it in your life no matter what experiment you do, you wont be able to understand it without help of another person giving you information, like red indians. So one is dependent on information from other source, he can't produce thought about it.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:18 # -
Consciousness refers to your individual awareness of your unique thoughts, memories, feelings, sensations and environment.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:19 # -
zia m
Member"It was only when one of the red Indians believed that sea ships exist that he saw them and then he told the group of Indians with him and then they were able to see the ships for themselves."
The red indian is basing his belief on seeing not any kind of revelation.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:21 # -
JJ we are talking about the same process just using different similar terms to explain it.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:21 # -
Zia our sensory senses are also flawed. The ship was always there but he needed the belief to actually see it in front of him. It is how we are conditioned and our perceptions determine what we see.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:24 # -
amin1924
memberNo, you haven't defined the thought process that gives rise to consciousness/idea... learn about it first then proceed further.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:24 # -
amin1924
memberHow many rational thinkers would it take to learn mandrin if you put them in one room without access to any other thing and provide them with mandarin language given that they have never seen or known about it?
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:26 # -
The eyes usually see around 140000 bits of information and send it to the brain but the brain processes around 70000 bits of information to see an image. The question is this that what are these 70000 bits of information that the eyes see but the brain does not process.
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:27 # -
amin1924
memberYes, that is the answer to process of thinking!
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:29 # -
jj how about you educate us all the podium is yours
Posted 2 years ago on 25 Aug 2009 22:30 #
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