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Turkish anger at US Armenian 'genocide' vote

(44 posts)
  1. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    BBC News: Turkish anger at US Armenian 'genocide' vote


    Armenian-Americans have lobbied for official use of the word "genocide"

    Page last updated at 02:42 GMT, Friday, 5 March 2010
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Turkey has reacted angrily to a US congressional panel's resolution describing as genocide killings of Armenians in World War I.

    PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country had been accused of a crime it did not commit, adding the resolution would harm Turkish-US relations.

    Ankara has recalled its ambassador to Washington for consultations and says it is considering other responses.

    Correspondents say it is still an extremely sensitive issue in Turkey.

    The government of Turkey, a key American ally and fellow Nato member, had lobbied hard for the American Congress not to vote on the issue.

    The White House had also warned that the vote would harm reconciliation talks between Turkey and Armenia.

    ..continued..
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    What's happening here ?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 6:00 #
  2. toamin
    member

    america is digging out khilafat-e-usmania aka "sick man of europe"

    real question is why?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 6:35 #
  3. Anonymous

    It is a reaction of Turkey daviating from US allies towards other neighboring countries like Iran, Syria, Lebanon and Greece and USA is giving its reaction to that by saying "Why you want good relations with Iran??" its their geopolitics and I dont think we have much better idea then them....

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 6:53 #
  4. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    If Pakistan improves on its internal economics, strengthen it, we can make things better for so many people of the world, including! the rest of Muslim UMMAH.

    There is so much to be done.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 7:17 #
  5. pappu
    Member

    Turkey needs to come out and apologize for this genocide.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 9:32 #
  6. Why do you believe Turkey committed any genocide at all? Just because the West says so? There was no genocide at all. Uprisings and killings, yes, but that does not a genocide make.

    Pakistan could just as well turn round and accuse India of genociding those who tried to leave as the newly-created Muslim country beckoned. And, boy!, would that make serious figures for the killed and the maimed.

    And we, the world, should bring genocide charges against the US for what was done to the Red Indians. And the rest of the West would not get off scot-free either, their latest effort in that direction being the deaths of Iraqi children and adults through sanctions and bombs.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 9:43 #
  7. pappu
    Member

    mirza ghalib Do you know anything about the topic of this thread? genocide of armenians by turks?? Instead of babbling educate yourself on the topic and than try again.
    http://www.armenian-genocide.org/
    United nations report on armenia
    http://www.teachgenocide.org/files/DocsMaps/UN%20Report%20on%20Genocide%20(excerpts).pdf
    Verdict ("Kararname") of the Turkish Military Tribunal
    http://www.armenian-genocide.org/Affirmation.237/current_category.50/affirmation_detail.html
    Indictment of the Turkish Military Tribunal
    http://www.armenian-genocide.org/Affirmation.238/current_category.50/affirmation_detail.html

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 9:53 #
  8. @pappu
    Bring in some irrefutable evidence from historical records. The same goes for other members. This way we may have a discussion that would be more beneficial towards improving our knowledge.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 9:57 #
  9. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @pappu: You are typical Pakistani. You know why ? Because you put your nose into matters, of which you have no knowledge what-so-ever. You don't even bother to investigate. You start yapping about it.

    That's a typical Pakistani.

    Come out! of this vicious loop, please!.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 9:58 #
  10. pappu
    Member

    haris khan i have posted four links above let me know if you need more. pappu is here so nothing to fear.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:01 #
  11. It is not because links are posted that they are necessarily reliable. Armenian propaganda has been going on for sometime now with the help of the ultimate "holocaust" masters.

    Turkish historians themselves deny it. I believe them, especially since West writers (no friends of the Turks) have also given credence to the Turkish version. If I'm babbling, you are naive and only too happy to accept anything the West tells you.

    And think, too, genocide is not compatible with Islam. Whatever else they might have been, the Turks at the time were fervent Muslims.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:19 #
  12. pappu
    Member

    Mirza ghalib did you read the links of Turkish Military Tribunal? Are you aware that the Turkish government has officially admitted to the killings? The dispute now is if it was a massacre or genocide. It did happen and if you think otherwise than you need to upgrade your reading before writing essays that don’t mean a thing.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:21 #
  13. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @pappu: Turkey's PM has denied these allegations from US.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:31 #
  14. pappu
    Member

    haris khan brother this is the position of turkish govt from your link
    Turkey accepts that atrocities were committed but argues they were part of the war and that there was no systematic attempt to destroy the Christian Armenian people.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:33 #
  15. Listen, man, keep your insults to yourself. No one has ever denied uprisings and killings as Turkey started breaking up. Killings on both sides, I hasten to add. Genocide, it was not. As for the Turkish Military Tribunal, the army in Turkey is the most Jewish-infiltrated thing one can imagine. Or have you missed out on the trials taking place presently in Turkey?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:35 #
  16. Also, let us all reflect on what Salam above had to say. My answer would be: unintentionally. The USans are too stupid to show thought in what they do.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:38 #
  17. pappu
    Member

    Mirza ghalib if you are interested in knowing about history or educating yourself than the information is available. I have done more than what my job should be in a discussion. Good luck with your fact finding and enjoy your Jewish paranoia and delusions. Please don’t let a little thing like facts get in your way.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 10:40 #
  18. Thanks pappu. Am most grateful. Reflect on what Turkish President Abdullah Gul says this morning before you get over-educated - and suffer for it.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:07 #
  19. pappu
    Member

    mirza ghalib
    In Ankara, the capital, the office of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan immediately issued a sharp rebuke. “We condemn this bill that denounces the Turkish nation of a crime that it has not committed,” the statement said.
    He is denying the charge of genocide.
    Turkey accepts that atrocities were committed but argues they were part of the war and that there was no systematic attempt to destroy the Christian Armenian people

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:17 #
  20. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Great!. We have another one, who repeats the same thing over and over again.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:22 #
  21. pappu
    Member

    hariskhan bahie jinn ko kuch bhie parnay ki aidat nahhou aur siraf rata lagana jantey houn un kaie saat karna parta haie. Kuch samjay.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:25 #
  22. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @pappu: I get the feeling you'r a second ID of somebody who's been arguing with me recently :-)

    I do read. Don't worry about me :-)

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:28 #
  23. pappu
    Member

    shabash abhie mujhey 2nd id bana diya haie dus min badah maie zionist agent ka title loun ga app saie. Dil thor diya aap naie meera.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:31 #
  24. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @pappu: I'll look at both sides of the story, before I come to a conclusion.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Mar 2010 11:36 #
  25. Is House committee vote on Armenian genocide ****-for-tat for Turkey’s Gaza criticism? By Philip Weiss on March 4, 2010

    You have to wonder. The House Foreign Affairs committee voted 23-22 to condemn the Armenian genocide in Turkey in the WWI era, prompting rage from Turkey. The committee is stacked with pro-Israel representatives: Howard Berman (chair), Gary Ackerman (vice chair), Ileana Ros Lehtinen (ranking Republican), Brad Sherman, Eliot Engel, Shelley Berkley.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 9:07 #
  26. Interview with Samuel A. Weems: Fabricated Armenian Genocide...The book by Samuel A. Weems, the author provides evidence that Armenians have in the past, and still today, continue to play the Christian versus Muslim religion race- ethnic card with great success, regardless of truth.

    The author seeks to expose the selfish and wrong actions by the state of Armenia and demonstrate how this country obtains foreign aid from Christian nations and funding by Christian churches. Weems states that foreign aid is the number one import of this state, and terrorism is its number one export.

    The book answers many questions and is the first work that has researched the Armenian Apostolic Church and its leadership role in state sponsored terrorism. The author of "Armenia: The Great Deception-Secrets of a 'Christian' Terrorist State" uses evidence derived from Armenian historians, as well as American, British and Russian eyewitnesses. It also describes how Armenian dictators have misled their own people, and how Armenia has fought against and opposed the United States War on Terrorism for its own self-interests.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 9:34 #
  27. Thank you, Shaheen-e-Iqbal. Great posting. it might shut some people up whose initial reaction proved to be anti-Turkey.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 9:42 #
  28. pappu
    Member

    Samuel A. Weems was a disbarred Arkansas lawyer. In 1974, Samuel Weems was disbarred as a lawyer for mixing his clients money with his own. A year later he was convicted of arson and conspiring to defraud an insurance firm. In 1977 a jury found Weems guilty of conspiring to commit arson and ordered him to pay $30,000 to an insurance company. He had a turkish wife and was a great freind of turkey.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Weems
    his Credibility is like shaheen beithullah mehsud marhoom. It is good to see you two are taking my advice and not letting facts get in your way.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 11:45 #
  29. @pappu
    Good find! :)

    Anyways, here is link to a documentary with arguments from both sides:
    http://freedocumentaries.org/teatro.php?filmID=325&lan=en
    Description
    In a special Correspondent to coincide with Holocaust memorial week, Fergal Keane investigates how a terrible slaughter, three quarters of a century ago, has returned to haunt the relationship between Turkey and its western allies. For decades the Armenian people have campaigned to have the killings of hundreds of thousands of their forefathers in Ottoman Turkey in 1915 recognized as genocide. But there has been an equally determined campaign by Turkey to deny genocide with threats of reprisals against any country which uses the word to describe the slaughter. Now as the United States steps up its efforts to win Ankara's support in any conflict with Iraq Correspondent reveals new Turkish pressures. The program also discloses how President George W Bush and his predecessor Bill Clinton both broke promises to the Armenian community that they would recognize genocide. Talking to Armenian survivors, Turkish officials and key political figures in the United States Correspondent investigates a story of two different versions of events; events which have left a people betrayed.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:35 #
  30. pappu
    Member

    @nota
    your welcome.
    The kids you left the information for do not have a habit of reading or watching anything educational.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:36 #
  31. @Mirza Ghalib
    "Is House committee vote on Armenian genocide ****-for-tat for Turkey’s Gaza criticism? By Philip Weiss on March 4, 2010

    You have to wonder. The House Foreign Affairs committee voted 23-22 to condemn the Armenian genocide in Turkey in the WWI era, prompting rage from Turkey. The committee is stacked with pro-Israel representatives: Howard Berman (chair), Gary Ackerman (vice chair), Ileana Ros Lehtinen (ranking Republican), Brad Sherman, Eliot Engel, Shelley Berkley. "

    No doubt about the timing of the vote (and those voting). Remember this whatever thing happened in 1915. What have they been saving it for?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:38 #
  32. Book titled ARMENIAN ALLEGATIONS AND THE FACTS:

    The Turkish administration was used to living with different peoples with different cultures and religions. This may be a characteristic the Turks gained from living side by side with many different nations. Justice is one of the most significant components of Turkish administrative tradition. The Turkish administrations have always respected the cultures. The Turks never undertook systematic massacres or genocide. Justin McCarthy's "Death and Banishment" clarifies this fact. In this book reveals how the peoples of Balkans and the Caucasus took refuge to the Ottoman administration. The Ottoman Empire had always been a shelter for the mistreated nations. In 1469, Jewish and Muslim peoples of Spain and Portugal, in 1711 Rakoczi Ferençh and his men, in 1849 Layos Kosuth and 2000 Hungarians, King of Sweden Charles and his 2000 men, between 1841 and 1856 Polish Prince Chartorsky, in October 1917, Russian Commander Vrangel and his 135.000 soldiers and even Trochky who escaped from death took refuge to the Ottoman Empire. Many German and Polish Jews have come to Turkey in 1930's. If the Turks undertook a genocide to the Armenians, why they sheltered the Jews running from Hitler? Why they saw the Turks as their saviors? Mehmet II (Mehmet the Conqueror) Firman (Document 17) dated 1478 is a very old and significant example of human rights. He granted his subjects the right of preserving their ethnical, cultural and religious identities. Remember the assimilation and genocide of the Balkanic peoples, compare the approaches of the Balkan nations to the Mehmet II's firman. In order to create homogeneous communities, some Balkan nations massacred or deported the Bosnians, Albanians, Macedonians and Bulgarian Turks, in the end of 20th century.

    Today, some circles that accuse the Turkish Nation with so-called genocide, remained indifferent to the massacres that lasted for months, they became deaf to the screams of the innocent women who had been raped. The Iraqis who escaped from mustard gas -produced by western technology and given to the hands of Saddam- has taken refugee to Turkey. Despite economic insufficiencies the Turkish Nation shared substance with those poor people. This is the history of the Ottoman Empire and the Republic of Turkey.

    Prof. Justin McCarty in his speech which he gave to the US Senate explained the pains of the Turks during the First World War.

    But, there are still some American senate members whose approach remained the same despite the speech of Prof. Justin McCarty (Document 18). Humanity certainly will be instructed about the facts under the light of the works written by the prudent historians. Unless, as Ataturk said, "Constant realities will assume an astonishing nature for the humanity".

    -Foreign Office, no. 371/6556/E.2730/800/44 see Kamuran Gurun. Armenian File, Turkish History Institute, Ankara, 1983, p 241
    -McCarthy, Justin: "The Anatolian Armenians 1912-1922". Armenians in the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (1912-1926), Boğaziçi University, Istanbul, 1984, p.23-25
    -Archives of Prime Ministry, Babıali-Dahiliye Nezerati-Emniyeti Ummiye Müdüriyeti kalemi, file 52/96-98
    -Suslu, Azmi, Armenians in Turkish History, p.223-226
    -ATASE Archive Erkan-ı Harbiye Umumiye Dairesi (3) Doc. No. 2048
    -Archive of Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Hazine-i Evrak, kar. 178, file, also see Suslu, Azmi Armenians in Turkish History, p. 237.
    -Bilgi, Necdet, a.g.e
    -Acquaintances, Oxford, UP. 1976
    -History of Turkish Military Forces, First World War, Administrative Activities and
    Logistic, vol. 10, ATASE Press, Ankara, 1985
    -ATASE Archive, no ½, kls. 361 file 1445, cat. 15-22-23
    -Orel, Şinasi Yuca Süreyya, The Real Face of the Telegrams Attributed to Talat Pasha, Turkish History Institute, Ankara, 1983

    LAST WORD
    Armenian genocide allegations caused many murders. The Armenian efforts on this ideal had always been bloody. The remnants of the murderers of thousands of Turks in Anatolia, Cemal and Talat Pashas still retain their violent approaches. Between 1973 and 1985 ASALA terrorist organization undertook many attacks against Turkish diplomats, Turkish people and Turkish work-sites. Despite all these violent events, the Western World remained in silence and boosted the morels of the terrorists by their indifference.

    The Armenian allegations consist of three targets, these are:

    a. Affirmation of the political, economical and military powers of the world on the Armenian Genocide and maintenance of records on this issue by central and local administrations,

    b. Compensation demand based on the concerned decisions and put economic pressure on the Republic of Turkey as the heir of the Ottoman Empire,

    c. Following the collection of compensation to represent the demand of lands. After, the concealed leader of the Dashnaktsutium organization Koceryan took the presidency of the Armenian State, said strategy has been accelerated. The entire scenery is directed to the wholeness of the Republic of Turkey. This strategy became the ideal of today's Armenia.

    An analysis of three documents of today's Armenia clarifies this fact. These documents are:
    The Independence Proclamation,
    Independence Decision
    The Constitution. 12th Article of the Independence Proclamation of Armenia Soviet Socialist Republic dated 23 August 1990 says, "The Republic of Armenia will support all the efforts for the international affirmation of the genocide occurred in Ottoman Turkey and in Western Armenia, in 1915". The same issue was accepted in Independence Resolution of the Armenian Parliament dated 23 September 1991, which says:
    "Armenia will be loyal to the Independence Proclamation". With Constitution of
    1995, Armenia declared that it will be loyal to the national objectives of the Independence Proclamation by force of law. Thus, the Armenian evil intents on Eastern Turkey as the Armenians name "Western Armenia" has revealed to the entire world.

    If we focus from this point of view, we should touch upon the conventions of NATO and ESDI. Both conventions guarantees the integrity of the member states.
    As known NATO is a military Pact and it does not need any further explanation. Paris Condition of ESDI guarantees the integrity of the member states. Imagine a member state that demands land from Turkey, moreover names East Turkey as "Western Armenia".

    Ever considered what is an Armenian reputed as, the world over!

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:38 #
  33. pappu
    Member

    shaheen behtullah mehsud marhoom even turkey admits officially that a massacare took place. Are you aware of that?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:43 #
  34. toamin
    member

    i see that only logical post is from yahya87 which tries to answer the timing question

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:44 #
  35. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Salam: That was my first conclusion as well. I agree, yahya87's point is valid. Common sense accepts it.

    I have noted recent news of incidents between Turkey and Israel. Their relations have become tense, as a result.

    If we look at recent past, we find;

    (1) Turkey's PM Erdogan protested against Israel's PM/President for its atrocities in Palestine in a televised gathering
    (2) As a result, Israel disrespected Turkey's Ambassador

    in an incident where Turkey's delegate was made to sit lower than Israel's Foreign minister or someone else.

    (3) Turkey also didn't invite India in the conference for discussing Afghanistan
    (4) And now this

    In short, recently Turkey has been showing dissent towards Israel. Turkey has exhibited FREEDOM!!. This may be a reaction from Israel towards Turkey.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:53 #
  36. Your post was not bad either. And there was also something above about Israeli revenge for Turkey's Gaza stand. The Armenian question has been held like the sword of Damocles over Turkey's head for ages now. Nothing new there. What is new is Turkey's newly-found self-confidence.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 12:57 #
  37. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    USA can't help but bow down to Jews.

    (1) No USA president survives who goes against Jews. Who doesn't know this ?

    Every Presidential candidate submits himself to AIPAC's power, bows down to AIPAC before he becomes President of USA. Every presidential candidate tries his best to please Jews, make them happy, in order for him to become President of USA.

    (2) Jews recently threatened to bring down US economy. Hence the USA's big bailout money, which was actually taxpayer money, ALL! of it went into pockets of influential Jews

    (3) Jews are the most influential of lobbyists in USA

    (4) Jews control everything! in USA, which includes but is not limited to;

    (a) money
    (b) money supply
    (c) Education, Universities
    (d) Banks
    (e) Insurance companies
    (f) large corporations
    (g) mass media companies (both print and mass media)
    (h) defense companies
    (i) Representatives of the people (because they support their political campaign through campaign finances)
    (j) Pentagon (military HQ of USA)
    (k) etc etc

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:14 #
  38. Quite right. US is completely subordinated to Jewish interests. But not just US. The entire West is in exactly the same case.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:31 #
  39. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Agreed.

    In this instance, Israel has used USA as an influential puppet to talk against Turkey.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:34 #
  40. pappu
    Member

    http://freedocumentaries.org/teatro.php?filmID=325&lan=en
    How can anyone deny that a genocide took place after watching this documentary posted by nota is beyond me. How can humans do such things?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:40 #
  41. A much closer look may reveal in whose domain this so called genocide took place? A treachery should be brought down and it was. Call it a genocide but Armenians in Turkish domain as subjects siding with Russia and others, met their fate. Turks stand justified to clear their domain of traitors.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:47 #
  42. toamin
    member

    europeans have their own histories full of massacres/genocides why not turkey do the same by passing bill on red-indian genocide or aborigines genocides or the massacres of east india company after 1857?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:51 #
  43. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @pappu: You know what they say;

    A good lie is easier to believe than the truth

    I haven't done my own research on it, yet.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Mar 2010 13:51 #
  44. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    DAWN News: US administration to block vote on Turkey 'genocide'

    Page last updated at 22:35 GMT, Friday, 5 March 2010
    -----------------------------------------------------------

    The vote of the US sparked committee parked outrage in Turkey

    The Obama administration has said it will seek to block a controversial bill describing as genocide the World War I killing of Armenians by Turks.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Obama admin' wants to kill this bill ?

    Apparently Obama's Govt. thinks more of Turkey's continued support in Nato, in comparison of the Armenian claim.

    Posted 2 years ago on 07 Mar 2010 14:27 #

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