Ummah vs Nationalism « PKPolitics Discuss

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Ummah vs Nationalism

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KHAN_Sahib
Member

I am starting this thread which is actually in reply to NAHDA1423 comments on another thread... Just thought that it’s a different ISSUE!

He writes,
1. “nationalism is poisonous for Ummah. Muslims cant revive with these type of sick thoughts, these r main source of our division. our heors r only those woh look muslims as 1 Ummah.

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=3138

"Nationalism is poisonous for Ummah"

**** BROTHER! WE HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS **** ABOUT UMMAH! UR UMMAH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE IN NWFP AND BALUCHISTAN! EVEN OUR SO CALLED MUSLIM BROTHERS IN KARACHI TO PUNJAB DOESN'T GIVE A F**K ABOUT PAKHTOONS AND BALUCHIS... THE DAY AMERICANS START SHELLING LAHORE AND KARACHI, THEN PERHAPS THEY WILL COME OUT AGAINST THIS **** GOVT. EVEN NAWAZ SHAREEF IS A COWARD WHOSE ONLY INTEREST IS IN SAVING PUNJAB’S GOVT OR ELSE HE WOULD HAVE LEFT THE SO CALLED COLATION AND SIT IN OPPOSITION BENCHES WITHOUT ANY MINISTERIES.

I am all up for Muslims around the world. Muslims of Palestine, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia but does any of our Muslim brother’s care about, what is happening in northern areas of Pakistan. First the American and Pakistan Army let these Pakistani Taliban grow under their safe umbrella and now that they become so stronger , they realised that its time for the major operation. Instead of moving their troops, all they are doing is to shell the mountains and villages. Hundreds to thousands of Pakhtoons are displaced in their own country and living in camps without any food supplies or medical help! Is this the BROTHERHOOD we are promoting under the umbrella of UMMAH!

Instead that head of all terrorist, ALTAF KAALIA, says that Taliban are taking over Karachi! I wish they DO cuz then karachite will feel the anguish and pain of becoming homeless and live in camps and shelters. Instead of helping, these sick **** decided to launch a hate campaign against Pakhtoons in Karachi and killed scores of innocent, labour class Pakhtoons!

We need “nationalism” Not Ummahissm any more… Unless all Pakhtoons get united and show solidarity, they will be crushed like insects, the way they have been for over few decades in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

My Friend NAHDA FURTHER SAYS, “Muslims can’t revive with these types of sick thoughts, these r main source of our division”

OUR DIVISION is not cuz of nationalism! If we were so nationalist then why do we have demonstration all over the world for Palestine? The downfall of Muslims is entirely because of 2 reasons!!!
1. We don’t follow Quran and Sunnah any more but have been fooled by MULLAS and POLITICIANS for their own agendas! And the reason we fall for their lies or can’t understand their dodgy minds is entirely due to lack of EDUCATION which is the Second reason of our downfall too… You correct these flaws and you will see how Ur Ummah will revive back to the TOP!

And his Last sentence! “. Our hoers r only those who look Muslims as 1 Ummah.”

Mate! Whom are u talking about? Tell me one ISLAMIC LEADER in this present world that has this quality! Please amuse me with your answer but don’t say that its ZARDARI OR NAWAZ cuz u will make me very very very very disappointed!

In essence, we need Nationalism first, we have to start with our homes, streets, cities, province, country and then we will be a help to any other Muslim around the world. We can’t feed our poor, can’t provide justice to a common Pakistani, a **** kid openly admits on state TV that he has raped a gal and dares Pakistan army and police if they can do anything to him (Ukhhar loee jo ukhharna hay? Seriously if he says this to me on my face, God is my witness, I will kill him then and there without thing of the consequences)
We need to be proud Pakistanis first and get our country (I am surprised that I am still able to write this after whatever has happened to Pakhtoons in last 50 years) stronger so that we can be in a position to help others and stand our grounds and not beg for mercy from USA or India for that matter!

Also a brother suggested to digest FATA in Pakistan. I am all up for that but the suggestion was that it should be forcefully done! Mate, like Americans and Russians, (cuz British remember their defeat and history) you need to learn and remember your history lessons!
“Cowardice asks the question ‘Is it safe?’
Expediency asks the question ‘Is it politic?’
Vanity asks the question ‘Is it popular?’
But, conscience asks the question, ‘Is it right?’

I am afraid on all 4 counts, its wrong and it’s IMPOSSIBLE! You can try, just the Americans and Russians did! Haat Kanghan ko arseee keeya (Daa Guzz aoe Daa Mayddan)

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 17:39 #
Oriel
Member

Khan_Sahib,

If one can tolerate another's sense of humanity or nationalism, it is a characteristic of that humanity to tolerate those that believe in the concept of Ummah.
You may be right that a comprehensive, dignified Ummah does not exist in this age, it is a noble ideal to achieve via noble methods none-the-less. Consider it please.

For those that are anti-nationalism: use whatever religious rhetoric is in your minds to make analogies with those "brothers/sisters" that are of the religious persuasion.... perhaps a dialogue will be the result and not a dictation... which is repugnant to both.

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 18:04 #
Oriel
Member

Furthermore, to be a nationalist does not mean one cannot be a tolerant Muslim and vice-versa.

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 18:07 #
Oriel
Member

Nahda1423:

..."our heors r only those woh look muslims as 1 Ummah"...

An unfortunate characteristic of Muslims today is that we do tend to reminisce about the past a little too much.
Yes, there is an abundance of egs of heroes in Islamic history... problem is, we need at least one today.
I think Bin-Laden, various Sheikhs etc etc do not quite cut it.

Khan_Sahib:

..."WE HAVE ENOUGH OF THIS **** ABOUT UMMAH! UR UMMAH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE IN NWFP AND BALUCHISTAN!"...

Those that **** about Pakhtoonistan are doing the same as those that **** about Ummah.

It seems those suffering atrocities of injustice in Pakistan, the tribal areas, Afghanistan etc are dear to your heart. That does not negate anyone else that is focused in another part of the world, whom is focused on atrocities perpetrated upon Muslims. Those that shout sloguns of peace for Palestinians can do so on a mandate of Islam and Nation simultaneously

Moreover this notion of an ideal coming first or second is rather tiresome;

..."In essence, we need Nationalism first, we have to start with our homes, streets, cities, province, country and then we will be a help to any other Muslim around the world"...

For the reasons stated before Khan_Sahib's quote.

To end this tedious lecture,

..."a **** kid openly admits on state TV that he has raped a gal and dares Pakistan army and police if they can do anything to him (Ukhhar loee jo ukhharna hay? Seriously if he says this to me on my face, God is my witness, I will kill him then and there without thing of the consequences)"...

Please do, each second he lives is a black mark upon everything decent.

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 18:32 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Oriel,

My Dear, let me explain once again,

Quote "You may be right that a comprehensive, dignified Ummah does not exist in this age, it is a noble ideal to achieve via noble methods none-the-less. Consider it please."

So you agree with the first part... Now for Ur suggestion.. Tell me one thing! How can you achieve this concept of one "Ummah"? I am a Muslim too and would die to see Muslims united but let’s be realistic! How on earth you will achieve this? By Talibanisation? By blowing girls schools/ by sending young brain washed kids to blow themselves in the name of religion and kill innocent people?
Or
By supporting zardari and kill thousands of Pakistanis in the name of war on terror?
Or
By supporting US to continue killing Afghans and Iraqis in the name of Law/War on terror/WOMD?
Or
By supporting some underground tehreek / organisation who been blamed/linked with dodgy background/support link?

Please do enlighten “Paaray likhay Jahhil” like me cuz I can’t understand your or Mr Nahda’s logic!

I am giving you a very simple logic in my theory!
If my house is safe and sound then I will go and help my neighbour! If My Area is safe then I will go to the adjacent area to help and so forth …that one day the sense of brotherhood will overcome and dominate all the country. (Bear in mind when I say that we should start from our streets, cities and then country followed by neighbouring countries, I never mentioned the ethnic background or sect or even religion for that matter)
Also I am not against helping or raising our voice (which no one does in this era and not even the champions of Ummah, whoever they are!) for any injustice with Muslims all across the globe. Now I will appreciate if you can highlight your concept of Ummah or the way we can achieve that goal?

And thanks for your comments on all my posts. You are indeed a valuable addition to this website especially among the females here.

Cheers

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 19:15 #
javedsheikh
Members

Nationalism is reality, Ummah is an allusion.
Nationalism is a destination, Ummah is a wishful thinking.
Nationalism is visible, Ummah is an unvisible feeling.
Nationalism is in practice, Ummah is a non-practicable theory.
Nationalism helps to united a Nation, Ummah is divided on each and every issue of human life.

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 19:25 #
netengr
blocked

If there is NO materialism and nationalism then there is Ummah concept .

Its all about Nationalism now days

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 19:33 #
hussainmehdi
Member

if, i say:

my family vs your family,
then?

lahore vs sialkot,
then?

liaquatabad vs liyari,
then?

but if i say that:

no materr this is lahore,
no matter this is liaquatabad,
no matter this my family or yours,

but,

we are all pakistanis, then???

when i say this, would you appreciate me or condemn me???

as same,

nationalism is fact,
a natural phenomena,

even prophet had recalled his days in Makkah,
every one loves his/her soil,
this is nature,

why we love our mothers,
why dont we love only God???

because, Islam is a religion of nature,
a noble nature,
how, then, Islam can ristrict to not love motherland, how???

so, as in case of liaquatabad vs liyari,

people say that:

" no matter liaquatabad or liyari, but we are all from karachi"

as same:

there is nothing strange in ummah and nationalism, because we are all muslims, the same way as people say we are all from karachi.

no problem,
is there?

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 19:39 #
Oriel
Member

Khan_Sahib,

I do not regard your postings as showing evidence of being a 'parha likha jahil'. Kindly humour me by reading a response to your last post.

Your cynicism with regards to the non-existence of an Ummah is understandable, though your bias against those that believe in the higher ideal, is not.

One method of reviving the Ummah would be via your own prescribed, logical theory: beginning with notion of safety from micr-society to macro-society. Your stated notion of 'brotherhood' is just as easily applicable to Muslim brotherhood. I quote a previous posting of yours when you stated, we can only be a good Muslim by being a good human.
Therefore, you must also agree that it is possible for good Muslims to exist in this world right now, or not?
If we were to read upon Islamic history, and the heroes that Nahda1423 is referring to, one can get a sense that a united group of Muslims did indeed exist, that responded with speed and valor, when those (Muslim or non-Muslim alike) were wronged.

Sir it is possible for one bigoted in the area of Deen to scoff at the failings of the present international secular system, in which millions of people are being suppressed by 'civilized secularists', for no reason other than they are Muslim (I fail to see the justification of facilities such as Abu-Ghraib and Guantanamo in any other light. If I am missing something, please fill in the blanks)

Why does unity have to be in the name of one ideal? Can a common ground not be found between proponents of nationalism and Islam? Is there no incentive for this?

Sir I also question you when you state,

..."I am a Muslim too and would die to see Muslims united but let’s be realistic!"...

One that promotes the notion of humanity, in times whence humanity is in short supply, cannot understand those that long for a united, brotherhood, whence Muslim will tolerate each other and non-alike?

Our homes, neighbourhoods, villages, towns and countries would be beneficial places to reside by exactly what you prescribe in the name of humanity. Those with an understanding of the greatness of Islam would whole-heartedly agree with you on this very point. Both sides are proposing the same thing, all-be-it in different words.

So, where's the argument?

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 21:03 #
codefreaq
Member

the concept of nation states is going to gradually decline in the 21st century. thats not to say national boundaries will vanish but they will not be important anymore by the end of this century. the main entities will be big cities which are financial hubs of the region joined together in economic alliances. the "ummah" even if reformed will not be a big empire within one boundary but an economic alliance of the muslim nations.for this economic muslim alliance to be formed individual countries will have to develop themselves and become self reliant financially because poor uneducated people will always be divided into ethnic and religious sects like shia sunni and punjabi sindhi. Turkey has applied and been rejected several times by the EU I think they should stop begging the europeans now.

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 21:20 #
Oriel
Member

Feeew, sooo glad we have Codefreaq here.

You put it very eloquently! Yes, I think so too!

Posted 3 years ago on 02 Feb 2009 21:23 #
piyariawam
Member

Looks like, Kiya Karachi or kiya Lahore or kiya Iraq, Yah toe bhoot bara fitna hai. India bhee iss kay lapaat may aa jayaa gaa.

Eilat port (Israeli port on Red Sea) koe kam yab kernay kay liya IPI aur TAP donoe koe nakaam kernay ka silsala lag raha hai.

Yah toe aik bahana hai kay Unicol wants a pipeline through Afghanistan.

India koe powerful bana-nay kay liya yah game khalee jaa rahee hai.
Banya **** Turkey may pipeline bana chuka hai.

I think they will even start wars in Persian Gulf.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 2:57 #
netengr
blocked

If we have worldly benefits we raise the Ummah Concept if it is not we are nationalist .Like in Subcontinent (india,Pakistan and bangladesh) Muslims are half billion but divided , for subcontinent we become Nationalist ,for Arabs we want Ummah ....

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 3:35 #
Revivalist
member

Dear All,

Muslims are one Ummah their land is one and their war is one". This is a hadith of our beloved prophet (Saw) and you can find hundreds evidences from Quran and hadith on this topic. Nationalist in simple words is Pakistani love and only care for Pakistan and Afghani love and care only for Afghanistan, Saudi love and care only for Sauid etc etc.

can any one here give me any evidence from Quran and Sunnah for such division??? It is right that we are not united under single leadership of Islam as an Ummah the way we should have been but this is our fault and we must work to get this state, where we truly call our self as one Ummah.

Let me give you an example. If someone lives in the west and see adultery as a common practice, for him to do adultery just because its ok in the west is absolutely wrong and Haram according to Islam because as a Muslim we must not accept the statuesque and always try to change it. Once we accept Islam it means we have signed a contract of dos and don’ts that are defined by the creator.

In short nationalism is an alien concept and is in full contradiction with Islam. Dividing our selves in different countries and not striving for the unification of Ummah is in fact ignoring an obligation and we as part of this noble Ummah will be answerable on the Day of Judgment.

It is easy to criticize others but what are we doing as Muslims is the real point of concern. The so called rulers of the Muslim world are the enemies and the biggest hurdle in the unification of the Muslim world and we must work hard to get rid of these traitors long with their corrupt systems and replace them with an Islamic khilafah which will ensure the unification of the Ummah and will practically strive for it.

Best regards

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 7:00 #
javedsheikh
Members

Then the wealth generated through oil resources of the Muslim States, should be shared with whole of the Ummah.

Here is the ground reality that one respectable member of Muslim Ummah cannot enter another Muslim State without a Visa and Passport.
Muslims are brothers, but travelling in different compartments.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 10:09 #
netengr
blocked

our four provinces fight for the resources ,West Pakistan got separated because of resource issue how come muslim countries can become one state .

I believe in Ummah in terms of Faith ,brotherhood ,values and common interest .Ummah can never be form on basis of resources or money .

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 10:48 #
Revivalist
member

JS
Off course not only oil but all those resources then come under public property. There is a clear Hadith of our beloved prophet (saw) “Muslims are partner in three things, water, green pastures and fire (all energy producing resources)".
I never said that everything is ok, Muslims are united and the governments are following Islam rather my whole argument revolves around the point that we have to eradicate these traitors, corrupt, dishonest rulers along with their corrupt systems and replace them with an Islam Khilafah and a sincere khalifa. YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!

Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 12:42 #
Oriel
Member

Revivalist:

I see no link between the concept of nationalism and the west's abundance of adultery. Surely you don't think that adultery does not also exist in vastness in the east, or where Muslims reside within loose, so-called Islamic governance????

But actually you are right about what Allah has prescribed Muslims to do. We are utterly disbanded, wherever one looks and are paying the heaviest of prices.

You are proposing Khilafat. Sir with respect, I am wholly disillusioned by this effort. The homes of Muslims are in disarray. As a religious group, internationally, we are far behind on every account; be it education, sanitation, health-care, representation. You name it, we do not have it. Muslims in the current international climate are less ready than non-muslims to live within a Khilafat, due to 'jahiliyat' of one form or another.

Lets talk about how we can learn to walk, before talking about trying to run. As it stands the Muslim non-Ummah is not READY to stand up on its own two feet.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 14:14 #
a human
Member

@ oriel
but khilafat is necessary even to crawl. but for having a sicere khalifah, we have to change our ownselves because HOLY PROPHET (SAW) said that "the same leaders like the people of a country are imposed on a public "
we have forgotten our values and i often use to think that we consider islam and dunyadaari as two different things and it is the main point of our false thinking for we were blesses with a universal religion to imply it in our lives in order to get well established and prosperous here and the world hereafter
Regards

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 14:23 #
Oriel
Member

Exactly so. This is why I am of the opinion that Muslims are not ready to live within a Khilafat, as Muslims have forgotten core values. Islam and duniya are a means to an end. However, we are so far from this means, that the end is a negative one.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 15:19 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@Rev,

I think you are missing the point here! If you want to build a good cricket team (I know in context of Pakistani cricket team it’s a bad example) you will do as follow:

Cricketers from different teams who will be performing in different departmental teams, or local cricket clubs or you will select them from a national championship where different teams from all cities will participate. It’s like a reverse pyramid! In the end you will develop a team with best of your available source. Now in order to achieve that, you have to first develop local teams on school, college and university level then on a higher level on city and province level. The net product is that you have a STRONG ROOT PLAN which will be able to cope with any demand and stress of future commitments and requirements.

This is the simplest explanation of nationalism! People who have been trying to unite all Muslims have failed miserably until now due to their failure of understanding of human nature. You have to think in 3 dimensions and can not just walk in a straight line without taking into account the difficulties of modern era.

Once you have achieved a strong country (n our case Pakistan) then you will be able to help your neighbours like Pakistan, stand shoulder to shoulder with Iran, help Iraq to rebuilt, help Palestine with your army and resources not just with enchanting slogans of hatred for Israel as it doesn’t affect them. I still can’t understand that in order to show solidaratory with Palestine, we choose to have a “Payya Jaam Hartal” (Strike) and burn buses, rickshaws of our own poor people? Instead we should work a day extra and send that extra $ to them but our Ulemma and Mullah’s are happy to lead these Big processions of hatred and blocking roads.

As I said earlier, you have to use the concept of “Nationalism” for your own benefit. I did read some where in Hizbo tehrir manifesto-cum-plan of action of khailfat, where they introduced a concept of inter-mosque communities. So the mosque of my area will help the mosque of other area on social, religious and intellectual level. MY question is, if your area mosque is not self sufficient, then how will you help others? You have to make your mosque/community strong first in order to help others! So what is the difference between the idea, I am proposing? It sounds like you guys are allergic to non-Islamic terms of Nationalism only.
Saying that, I again want to clear one thing, that I am all out for unification of Muslims in form of one “Ummah” but do you have a plan? Can you chalk out a plan here for your objective? Just talking in air won’t achieve you anything as it has not until now!

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 15:25 #
raheb
Member

There are two types here, Khan sb and some beating the drums of 'Reality' 'ground reality' BUT totally forgetting that there is NO eternal reality. Yesterdays realities are no more here, and todays realities also going to disappear. Every timespan or let's say todays realities are at the same time a period of 'Pre-Reality' also, means a time for incoming realities. So I have pointed out that those who just pointing out existing realities, "this is a chair", "that is a tree" "it is warm today" etc etc. do no favour, as all of us can see and feel such things which they point out. There is NO art in such sayings, but VISION, Ideologies, theories, hypothesis, imaginations, make our world rich. Todays fictions can be TRUE tomorrow, but that is passive approach to Discard everything as it do not exist today.
WHO says there is NO Ummah? Ummah is there already. It depends how you see it, and what definition you have for Ummah. Efforts are to make Ummah ONE (Ummat-a-Waheda- One Nation, it is QURANIC word Khan sahib). This word is used for the muslims that you all belong to ONE NATION. Theory of Two nation mentioned in Quran and just that theory is basement of Pakistan. Now you may say that condition of Pakistan don't reflect the theory, True, but it do not mean that theory is a Failure, rather its implementation yet not applied properly.
Believe me or NOT, Ummah is there and it is on its way to rise. Those who here pointing it out are at the same time working for it, consciously or unconsciously, BUT lot of working is going on. I have trevelled a lot, specially in muslims countries. Believe me when ever people becomes to know that I am a Pakistani muslim, they gave me lot of love, affection, respect, all signs to belonging of a same nation. I am talking about street people, Not offcials, as such governmental offcials are hurdles, NOT general people. BUT such regims are NOT going to survive a long time.
ISLAM itself a NATIONALITY. I can be citizen of certain country, but my Nationality is Islam- A muslim, nothing else. And where ever I go or live my nationality will be same. Quran warns from so called nationalism, as destructive and divided people in groups. As someone pointed out above, nationalism is already going towards death. EC is example of it, as people of over 30 countries are moving and mixing each other without any hinder, BUT 40-50 years Germans, French, British etc. were proud nationalists and almost hate each other, but not NOW.

So dear Folk! don't worry, Ummah is there and the process is going on to make it ONE. And who can be more suitable to do that job better than a Pakistani, as its boundires are laid of this theory that Muslims are ONE Nation. So keep going on and continue your work silently.
God Bless YOU.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 19:52 #
Heather_Ali
Member

@rev,
I think both you and Khan Sahib are fighting for the same cause with 2 different names. Also you fail to disclose or explain the white paper of unification of this Ummah!

For a person like me who wants to work towards this goal, we need to have a game plan which is simple to understand.
As Khan Sahib puts it,

" Saying that, I again want to clear one thing, that I am all out for unification of Muslims in form of one “Ummah” but do you have a plan? Can you chalk out a plan here for your objective? Just talking in air won’t achieve you anything as it has not until now!

I would appreciate a simple answer, e.g a plateform or a group of people who you think is working towards this concept.

Thanks

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 20:49 #
Oriel
Member

Heather, I've been trying to tell them both that also. They seem not to want to listen.

What to do?

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 20:53 #
Heather_Ali
Member

Oriel,
you can try to use your female charm! lol
Every Man understand this language for sure .. he he

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 20:58 #
Oriel
Member

;-) heather

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 21:18 #
nahda
Member

Thanks Revivalist for ur kind strong arguments.

more or less all of us want to be 1. time is to do some practical activities that could bring us to that goal.
r we ready for it.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 21:27 #
Oriel
Member

Im sorry nahda, it was pinching me so, you mean 'goal'.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 21:32 #
Oriel
Member

I'm going to have to apologise to you again nahda;

No Muslims are not ready for it.

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 21:56 #
Fahim23
Member

We need two parallel levels:

First Level - In situations when we have to choose between oppressor and oppressed, we have to support oppressed. We have to choose right. There should be Family, no Friends, no country, no Ummah or no Nationalism whatsoever involved.

Second Level - When we are in position to support anyone. It should start from

A. Most needful person
B. Family n Relatives
C- Friends n Neighbour
D- City
E- Province
F- Country
G- Neighbouring Countries
H- Muslim Countries or brothers in Faith (for non-muslims)
I- World
J- Universe if thr are alines living out thr!

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 22:05 #
nahda
Member

do u mean muslims r not ready to do anything but thay just want(dreaming) to be 1?

Posted 3 years ago on 03 Feb 2009 22:08 #
Revivalist
member

Let me ask you all a question and to answere me truthfull.

Who amongst you dont want to unification of the Ummah???? I am sure all of us want it, it is seperate question what we are doing for it practically...

Please answere in yes and no!

Q: Do you want the unification of the Muslim Ummah?????????

Best regards

Posted 3 years ago on 05 Feb 2009 10:16 #
nahda
Member

i don't think there would be a single muslim who say no.
Is there any?

Posted 3 years ago on 05 Feb 2009 12:04 #
raheb
Member

Of course it is YES, but problem is some pessimistic voices, who call themselves 'Realists' which indirectly turns it down, and that may expose their conscious or unconscious 'NO'.
The PROCESS is on, and it will mature with time, after seeing its downfalls and upper swings. The time is working for it.
It is too early to ask a 'plan' for it. We are talking about 1.5 billion people, so what plan one can expect in present form? Its maturing and getting nourishment from all happenings against muslims around the world.

raheb

Posted 3 years ago on 05 Feb 2009 22:50 #
peterpan773
Member

Muslim Ummah
Jewish Ummah
Christian Ummah
Hindu Ummah
Budhist Ummah

What about Oneness of mankind??????

Posted 3 years ago on 06 Feb 2009 5:46 #
nahda
Member

Allah(Swt) says in the Qur'an,"Indeed the believers but a single brotherhood"(49:10)
The Prophet(saw) said,”The Muslim Ummah is one Ummah exclusively to others: Their Land is One, their War is One, their Peace is One, their Trust is One and their Honor is one.”(Ahmed)

Posted 3 years ago on 06 Feb 2009 7:28 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

What about Oneness of mankind??????
Follow the rite path and you will see the oneness of mankind but then how many of us would want that?

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 15:42 #
shikra
Blocked

Only Allah is authorized to show the Right Path.
Not a single person on the Earth has the original photo copy of the Right Path.
In case whole of the World population is on the Right Path, that would be over crowded and congested.
It is better to let everyone run at the path, he has selected or has been put on.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 15:49 #
semirza
Moderator

@shikra
'Not a single person on the Earth has the original photo copy of the Right Path.'
============================================================
One person has not a 'photocopy' but the 'whole book' and that is called 'the Holy Quran'. And that person is Mohamed (pbuh)

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 15:58 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

One person has not a 'photocopy' but the 'whole book' and that is called 'the Holy Quran'. And that person is Mohamed (pbuh)

Wah Wah Wah..
Kaya Baat hey!
Agree!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 16:13 #
shikra
Blocked

@ semirza,
I would not dis-agree to you for the sake of peace, as this debate could prompt you to close this topic, too.
By the way you acknowledged my point.
The Right Path and the Photo Copy you mentioned, unfortunately, has been made cloudy and is hard to understand for a person like me with blurred vision.
I don't want to perpetuate this debate as I am not in a mood to receive few more titles.
Better to finish with the prayer 'O'Allah, the Merciful, I am totally lost. Please Show me the Right Path'.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 16:17 #
semirza
Moderator

@shikra
Agreed.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 16:20 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

'O'Allah, the Merciful, I am totally lost. Please Show me the Right Path'.

AMEEN!

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 16:25 #
NNL
member

Yaar this Ummah and Nationalism is a very controversial topic no matter how one sees it the shades of grey are hard to find.

Posted 2 years ago on 15 Aug 2009 16:48 #
DeadlyHonest
member

Nationalisation boundary ends where Ummah boundry starts...

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 17:35 #
semirza
Moderator

@DeadlyHonest
Why dont you consider my way and that is Ummah is going to consume all national boundries!

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 17:37 #
DeadlyHonest
member

why dont you consider my way and that is Ummah is going to consume all national boundries! ...

i could not get your point here..pls explain a bit....

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 17:47 #
semirza
Moderator

@DeadlyHonest
The control in the form of passport is a colonial idea, to divide Ummah.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 18:00 #
DeadlyHonest
member

yes agreed their should be policies towards the unity of ummah will leave such colonial concepts disabled.Helping and looking for the interests of other muslim countres will help in this regard......

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 18:03 #
chechen
Member

When the world is moving towards globalization, Europe is already having european union with one passport, one currency and one constitution, why are Muslims having qualms about Khilafa and unity of Ummah. After all Khilafa survived until beginning if this century. Instead of trying to undestand and revamp the Khilfa, the post colonial secularist leaders started blindly following the western model. Time to reassert the unity of Ummah. Man made colonial boundaries have no future.

Posted 2 years ago on 16 Aug 2009 18:25 #