And fassadi militants win by a considerable margin.
Take that USA (super f-ing Power), we're better at killing ourselves than you're! Oh, on second thoughts, I think USA wins any way, as its their planted fassadi militants that are killing us. So no one can beat USA in killings of Muslay...
@UmeR
At least put in the effort to find a better graph...If I remember correctly (and I usually do ;-) ), the "official" figures I heard over a year ago of those killed by drones was 900 in over 100 drone strikes.
You lowball an already lowballed figure? Trouble with being honest?
BTW: What's your "reliable" source? BBC?? The same BBC that just exonerated Israel for the Flotilla attack? The same BBC that just exposed blatant pro-Israel bias?
(of course that number has gone way up by now and to fog up the issue you will see terms used like "MORE THAN 900 have been killed in MORE THAN 200 strikes)
junaid
Member
according to their masters, 900 were dead almost a year ago. from where did he copy pasted his secular fasaad. tribal belt per musharaf daur mai tau b1/b2 sai bhi bombing hotee thee us ki figure kahan gaye.
In case anyone knows about Drone Attacks then Drone Attacks are done on Haqqani Network and other Networks that are operating in Afghanistan they arent done on TTP except their leaders so the comparison should be Militant attacks in Afghanistan and Drone Attacks in Tribal Agencies not militant attacks in Pakistan and Drone attacks in Tribal agencies...
shimatoree
Member
I fail to understand the purpose behind this thread ?
Abdul Rahman
Member
Umer,
Where is the source and how authentic?
You ought to highlight the famous Hadith of Prophet SAS that said never trust the Kuffar source for any news. I don't have that Hadith handy but you seem to know lots of Ahadiths. Please do not pick and choose hadiths for your whims. That graph is not worth the bandwidth on this forum.
Not Possible
Blocked
@nota, junaid, Abdul Rahman
So what are you saying the taliban are not bad? That the militants commiting attrocities are not evil? Taliban have propoganda videos showing suicide bombers who go up and blow themselves, are those Americans as well? What are you sying? That this violence happening in our country by militants is justified or a righteous cause????
shirazi
Member
@UmeR
Thanks for posting stats. As Sidhu said
" Statistics are like miniskirts, they reveal more than what they hide."
Now Taliban spin gurus can say anything but no one can deny casualties caused by drones and militants is almost 1:2 in Pakistan.
@shimatoree
There is no purpose but to echo his masters voice/propaganda. I think he is trying to counter my mentioning the drone strike that he wanted ignored.
@UmeR
Why the sudden urge? And what are you trying to say? Having trouble reconciling your two beliefs ("fasadis are worse than US", "fasadis ARE US")?
P.S. Just curious how you reconcile this with that other thread you just started:
Radical Islam is world's greatest threat - Tony Blair
So you poodling Tony?
@shirazi
Apologies for thinking your was above 80. I stand corrected ;-)
"I can prove anything by statistics except the truth."-- George Canning (of course Canning was assuming one would atleast begin with correct numbers)
toamin
member
fitnay kee jang may hum nay afghanion kay saath to ghaddari kee hee thee saath saath kashmirion kay saath bhi ghaddari kee..
dono taraf say khoon bahana band karna paray gay... sarkari mullay aik taraf kee baat kartay hain per doosri taraf kee baat na kar kay bara zulm kartay hain...
fitnay kee jang shoro karnay wala mushraf thaa, usnay bara zulm kia
@ Junaid
That didn't make any sense, take care...
@ Shimatoree
Will you ever stop whining, just ignore the thread if it seems without any "purpose"
@ AR
Thank you...
@ Nota
No! I don't think I need to "counter" any of your arguments. And I haven't even been reading your "enlightening" comments, so all knowing Nota, you got this wrong.
"The "official" figures I heard over a year ago of those killed by drones was 900 in over 100 drone strikes."
Okay, so what does this graph states? 746 killed in 87 attacks, so big deal NOTA? Even if 2 people died in hundred drone attacks, it would still be bad. And I'm glad for you that you remember your statistics, but would you also care to provide a rough idea of how many people these fassadi militants killed in how many attacks?
"Having trouble reconciling your two beliefs ("fasadis are worse than US", "fasadis ARE US")?"
Oh, man I seriously do not want you to go through any trouble, and that to because of me. So let me explain, what I said and meant was, fassadi's have killed more Muslims, than US drones did, and that make fassadi's worse than US, but since these fassadi's are US planted moles, so US takes the cake for killing more Muslims. But that doesn't mean that these fassadi's do not deserve our hate.
"just curious how you reconcile this with that other thread you just started: Radical Islam is world's greatest threat - Tony Blair"
And I'm curious to know how is this thread a contradiction of the other one? Condemning US or UK for their terrorism doesn't make me a taliban, and neither condemning fassadi militants make me a "secular fassadi", "kufar lover" or "tonys poodle". So get over it.....
@ Shirazi
"Now Taliban spin gurus can say anything but no one can deny casualties caused by drones and militants is almost 1:2 in Pakistan. "
Exactly, and both sides are condemnable...
@ NP
Thats pretty much what they mean!
UmeR, could you explain the following to me, please.
If TTP has been killing us all along, what role do Blackwater mercenaries play in our country. Are they here simply on a holiday?
Another thing I don't quite understand: If the TTP are US-assets, who is being bombed in FATA by the same US, their own moles?
And last, but not least: Where do you stand on Afghanistan? The Islam they follow is not the Islam you and NP preach or I believe in, yet are they saving the world - or aren't they?
These questions as you can well believe are not to trip you up or anything. I'm genuinely interested in learning more about your reading of the present situation.
@UmeR
"And I haven't even been reading your "enlightening" comments, so all knowing Nota, you got this wrong."
Oh you liar you! How else would you find them "enlightening"? Of course you can continue to pretend...
BTW: AR said:
Where is the source and how authentic?
You ought to highlight the famous Hadith of Prophet SAS that said never trust the Kuffar source for any news. I don't have that Hadith handy but you seem to know lots of Ahadiths. Please do not pick and choose hadiths for your whims. That graph is not worth the bandwidth on this forum.
A "Thank you" is hardly answering that!
shimatoree
Member
So Far- it has not been revealed where these graphs came from.
Till that happens -legitimacy is in question.
And I repeat my question again.
d0ct0r
Member
shimatoree
So Far- it has not been revealed where these graphs came from.Till that happens -legitimacy is in question.
And I repeat my question again.
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/world/10/pak_drones/img/4pak_deathlabel_976.gif
"If TTP has been killing us all along, what role do Blackwater mercenaries play in our country. Are they here simply on a holiday?"
MG, is it those blackwater a-holes that are blowing themselves up in markets and mosques? As NP said, do you think, these taliban have done nothing wrong, and are their acts justified, in any way?
"If the TTP are US-assets, who is being bombed in FATA by the same US, their own moles"
Americans have the history of funding both sides of the war, and this is what they're doing here. Winning the war is not the purpose, but sustaining it is. Do you think those american soldiers who're fighting in Afghanistan know or believe that 9/11 was an inside job? No! because if they did they wouldn't be here, and to create a illusion of an enemy, their masters plant moles these moles, then there stooges attack them, who in turn also kill innocent civilians in the name of revenge or resistance. And how their moles mainly benefit them is, that they provide justification for them to attack a country, and that is whats happening in this case.
"And last, but not least: Where do you stand on Afghanistan? The Islam they follow is not the Islam you and NP preach or I believe in, yet are they saving the world - or aren't they?"
You may think ZH is a crazy nut, but listen to what he is saying and not who is saying. And what he said, sums up my take on Afghani taliban and fassadi taliban...
@ Nota
"Oh you liar you! How else would you find them "enlightening"? Of course you can continue to pretend..."
I think I do deserve to be called a liar for saying your posts were enlightening, even if I said that jokingly. Anyway, I have been on this forum for long enough to know your take on certain issues, so I don't have to read every comment of yours to know where you stand...
"A "Thank you" is hardly answering that! "
I thanked him for the advice, which you'll find hard to swallow, as most of the links you paste here are also from websites of kufar, right?
.
d0ct0r
Member
Mirza Ghalib
If TTP has been killing us all along, what role do Blackwater mercenaries play in our country. Are they here simply on a holiday?
Indeed,are they simply holidaying? or are they recruiting and supporting terrorists and providing them with logistical and techinical support to carry out their sinister plans? And where does our local desi black water MQM altaf fits in all this,that MQMized absconder have been constantly meeting US ammbasdor,officials at his hideout in London and then wrecking and tearing up Karachi and killing dozens of pathans when ever his masters give him signal..
Ahan, so these graphs are taken from bbc, so they have no credibility whatsoever.
Well! then ignoring these graphs, tell me have american drones killed more civilians or have these fassadi militants done a better job?
What was the highest number of civilian causalities in a drone attack and that in suicide blasts by the fassadi militants, can anyone tell me, please?
And my point is not that, because less people died in drone attacks, so we should not worry about them, but my point is fassadi militants have done more damage to Pakistan, than these drones, so it would be stupid to just condemn drones and turn a blind eye from these fassadi militants and vice versa.
d0ct0r
Member
@UmeR
Americans have the history of funding both sides of the war, and this is what they're doing here
Good thing you've at least acknowledged that..
Who in his sane mind would commend suicide blasts killing innocent civilians,one needs to just recognize that who is actually pulling the strings of these "fassadi militants". In case of desi black water MQM Altaf is quite clear,no ambiguity what so ever.
@UmeR
"as most of the links you paste here are also from websites of kufar, right?"
For me the message matters more than the messenger (or his religion). There are links (your porn) and then there are links (my "enlightening ones") :-P
BTW: Posting Zad Zaman is like screaming about your desperation (and proof you'll buy any crap). So thanks for showing us the strong foundation you are basing your arguments on. Gives me the shudders!!! ;-)
"You may think ZH is a crazy nut"
Not crazy. Just a peddler of lies and half-truths -- like you.
@MG:
Apart from carrying out various operations in Pakistan, Blackwater also had/have a role in Drone Attacks. The agency has for many years operated Predator drones out of a remote base in Shamsi, Pakistan. However, a second site at an air base in Jalalabad, Afghanistan has been secretly added. The existence of the Predator base in Jalalabad has not previously been reported.
CIA conducts most of its Predator drone strikes on targets in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region from the Jalalabad base, with drones landing or taking off almost hourly. The base in Pakistan is still in use.
US decided to open the Afghanistan operation partly because of the possibility that the Pakistani government, facing growing anti-US sentiment at home, might force the CIA to close the one in Pakistan.
@Umer.
Can you answer 2 Questions Please.
The Bomb blast in Peshawar where over 100 people died. Who carried out that attack? Militants? Or BW/Foreign agents?
Who carried out Islamabad Marriot and Peshawar PC hotel attacks? Militants? Or BW/Foreign agents?
Thanks KHAN_Sahib, dOctOr and UmeR, for your answers to my questions, some were very "enlightening", indeed.
UmeR, your showing a ZH video here was very daring of you. You must know by now he's the man the majority on this blog love to hate the most. But it answered my key question fully.
The other two still remain a puzzling riddle to me. TTP take money from Blackwater, lets say, some go and blow themselves up and others go home and get blown up by drones. Then waht happens to the money taken. Blackwater returns and quietly pockets the black money again?
Oh, well. The way I see it may be wrong, but it makes the most amount of sense to me. Some attacks have been carried out by TTP. But many, and I think the Lahore, Karachi and Baluchistan events might number among them, were Blackwater-Indo-Mossad efforts. No suicide bomber at all. Remote control bombing followed by plentiful shooting. An Indian can always pass for a Pakistani and vice versa.
And please not to think I'm in any way in favour of all these indiscriminate killings going on in Pakistan, often with sectarian undertones. But the people of FATA should also be defended if one has the nagging sense that they are being scapegoated for things they might not have done at all. They have a lot to put up with as well.
According to ZZH, Afghan Taliban say: "Our fight is not with Pakistan but with Americans"
Now Pakistan says they are with Americans and helping to keep the American war effort (against Afghanistan Taliban) going by provided bases, keeping NATO supply lines open, trying to stop support getting to Afghan Talibs, etc. and are proud to proclaim "Without us American cannot fight the (Afghanistan) Taliban."
Makes perfect sense. What could Afghan Talibs possibly have against Pakistan (not to forget the 180 degree turn by Mush) :-P
P.S. I have heard "enemy of my enemy is a friend" but never "friend of my enemy is a friend" ;-)
@MG
"daring"? Thought I said "desperation"! But then, anything passes for daring these days...
:-)
Khan Sahab, I can see where you're getting at. But never have I denied the role of foreign elements in Pakistan. The incidents you've named, might have the involvement of BW in them, but BW doesn't directly carry out such 'tasks' or do they? The man who detonated explosives filled in the dump truck in front of marriott hotel, wasn't a member of BW, or was he? So BW merely funds and recruits people from within the country, and those who carry out such tasks are the organizations in the likes of TTP....
Nota said:
"For me the message matters more than the messenger "+
Nota then said:
"Posting Zad Zaman is like screaming about your desperation (and proof you'll buy any crap). So thanks for showing us the strong foundation you are basing your arguments on. Gives me the shudders!!! "
=
Reminds me of the word: H Y P O C R I S Y
hy·poc·ri·sy (h-pkr-s)
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies
1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
2. An act or instance of such falseness.
nota, are you now, daringly or in desperation, taking us down yet another path? Are you claiming by any chance that the Afghan Resistance and the TTP are working hand in glove and that the latter are actually being pushed by the former to attack Pak civilians? Makes the head spin.
MG, before I even posted that video, I knew it is going to get someones panties in a wad. And also most of the people here seem to hate him because he is 'very' critical of organizations such as TTP. And I found talking against taliban on this forum equally difficult as talking against Israel in America...
You make one comment against them, and 'mujhahideen' are ready to pull your face off.
"And please not to think I'm in any way in favour of all these indiscriminate killings going on in Pakistan, often with sectarian undertones. But the people of FATA should also be defended if one has the nagging sense that they are being scapegoated for things they might not have done at all. They have a lot to put up with as well. "
Not only people of FATA, all innocent civilians need to be defended....
@MG
No. I am just stating simply that ZZH claim that Afghan Taliban say "Our fight is not with Pakistan but with Americans" is simply that -- a claim. Do you thnk they sing songs of the Pakistan army? I think you should recall here the words of Mulla Zaeef from our discussion not so long ago...
Personally I know too little to claim to know who is working with whom. I just find it funny when people put forth trash as absolute truths...Everyone's a freaking expert here on AT and TTP and their links and financing and their every act, etc. ;-)
@UmeR
Hypocricy does not apply here. I am challenging the claims he makes and rejecting the "message" itself. Duh! :-P
(I know you are upset because you made a mistake by posting something you have trouble defending. Just admit the graph you chose was a mistake. But you won't -- instead you will try any trick to avoid it) ;-)
^ You didn't say anything about his 'message', what you said was:
"Posting Zad Zaman is like screaming about your desperation (and proof you'll buy any crap)" :)
ha ha
Umer sahib.... yeah hee tou masla hay hamrey mulk ka.... U been criticizing without knowing the facts. Just because I dared you to a Question/incident... u chose to think and then assumed that it was black water. Its the WRONG answer.......
My friend, before blaming Talibaan.... just take some time out and FIND the facts and if you dont have time then please don't ASSUME things...
Facts:
Both Marriot and PC hotel bombing was carried out by ISI. (I can go in details for the reason behind it but this will de-rail the topic) Obviously ISI and all the international secret service organization "Use" people
Peshawar Bomb was art of RAW-MOSSAD-KARZAI TRIO
KARAZI has announced that his govt is going to do "Table talks' with Talibaan. And it's an Afghan/Pashtun thing that Karzai has to accept them "in the Govt" or let them rule part of Afghanistan (not that he has choice..)
Lets see what the stooges in Pakistani govt do now?
"Both Marriot and PC hotel bombing was carried out by ISI."
haha on you too....
This shows what kind of 'facts' you've been reading...I'm sorry but I don't think I want these "facts"...
Thanks UmeR, nota, et al. It was a fascinating discussion. I'll now retire into myself and mull over it all. And probably come out with the same old unresolved questions, but no matter. Khan_Sahib. special thanks to you for reminding us of the eaily-forgotten but ever present Karzai factor.
Is Israel Running the Taliban?
By: tyler durden
Quetta, Baluchistan, September 3, 2003 (Veterans Today) Today, 43 Pakistanis were killed in a terror attack, killed for supporting Palestinians in Gaza. The signs had been there, the Wikileaks attempt to put responsibility for the Taliban on Veterans Today editor General Hamid Gul. This was debunked in a heartbeat. This attack was vicious and clearly the work of Israel. This was a terror attack meant as a message to the people of the world telling them that if they rally in support of those imprisoned in Gaza, they will be murdered.
Is it a gift for the Jewish people of Israel, another revenge attack, seemingly in response to the shooting of 4 Israeli Jews in Hebron, an attack curiously timed to disrupt peace talks between Jewish and Muslim Palestinians in Washington?
(I just came across this on WRH. Does it make any sense?)
@MG
Well, IF you believe Taliban did Lahore and Quetta, then this "trail" is good an explanation as any. BTW: The piece is by Gordon Duff. Duff too sees the oddity of attacking a rally "supporting the Palestinian cause" and as any reasonable person, thinks if indeed "Taliban did it", then the strings must have been pulled from close to the Dead Sea.
Of course you know I don't believe "Taliban did these". But I will say whosoever did it, their trail would lead elsewhere...
Thanks nota. Nicely summed up in a few words, each one to draw their own conclusion now.
azeem20
Member
if someone has some problems or reservations about taliban murder attacks, why dont you consult newspapers and count thier claims and then count thier victims.
drones or taliban suicide attacks, we pakistanis are the victim, try to understand it. we are being killed. the evil has more than one face. taliban or drones, mind is same. we got confused by change of face everytime, but god know when we are going to know our enemy and the single mind behind all these faces.
azeem20, that was very well put. Gives us further food for thought.
@Umar...
Ha Ha on you too?? You really need to grow up so that people can respect your discussion rather then mocking people. You have the talent but you are killing that..... After most of your discussion I always remind myself that, "Never stand between a dog and the hydrant."
As I am have no intentions to engaged into any kind of discussion with you.... but I may tell you that unlike you and few of others, "I don't READ facts but I always FIND facts" You won't understand this because its always difficult to change the minds of Googleee generation.
Hint: Do some Googlee search (u may be lucky) on BW, Eric D Prince, Marriot Bombing, Swimming pool, ISI...
junaid
Member
@umar
@ Junaid
That didn't make any sense, take care..."
are you leaving this board for good.?
it didnt make any sense because its hard to understand the facts.
(Second drone strike in as many days kills seven, injures 4...but be very, very quiet....)
Govt Wiseman RM has spoken:
Pakistani Militants Stoking Sectarian Rift - 4.9.10
ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pro-Taliban Pakistani militants are trying to create a sectarian rift, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said on Saturday, as a new wave of violence piled pressure on a government already struggling with a flood crisis.
The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for bomb attacks on two Shi'ite rallies that killed 33 people in Lahore on Wednesday and 65 in the city of Quetta on Friday.
The attacks ended a lull after devastating floods which affected 20 million people. Pakistani officials had said before the attacks that any major violence at such a difficult time was likely to cause deep popular resentment against the militants.
On Friday, Pakistan's Taliban also threatened to launch attacks in the United States and Europe "very soon," two days after the Washington added the group, known as Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), to its "foreign terrorist organisations" list.
Malik said al-Qaeda linked militants were trying to whip up sectarianism after taking a beating in their strongholds in the country's northwest in a string of military offensives.
"Sectarianism that has been there for 62 years (since the creation of Pakistan), they stoked it again," he told reporters in Islamabad.
Warning that militants would launch attacks again "wherever there is a vulnerable situation," he said "they are using it as a weapon to terrorise people."
Well, Khan Sahab, not everyone can be lucky like you to get their information directly from 'mujahideen', so poor awam like me have to rely on media for information and that also includes google, which for some reason you're critical of...
And you know why I acknowledged the possibility of BW in Marriott bombing, it was because TTP said so, so I thought you'd be towing the same line, but I was wrong, you've a 'better' version than theirs.
Anyway, since you're not interested in any discussion with me, and as I've already wasted a lot of your precious time by begging you to enlighten us with your superior wisdom and 'facts', so I'll just cut the crap and thank you for these search tag suggestions. I'll start my quest for facts with searching for 'swimming pool' as it seems interesting, and will see how it leads me to ISI's involvement in Marriott bombing, I've got all my google skills working on it, so you don't worry and take care.
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