PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

US finding Retreat from Afghanistan Worst than Vietnam

(44 posts)
  1. The developing scenario on the horizon in the West shows that US Pull out from Afghanistan is now eminent and it may start earlier than expected. In the West; all along Afghanistan war has been considered as an unwanted war and consequently Britain as well as Canada are seen impatient to pull out their troops much earlier than expected. US desperation is also gauge able who is looking for some grounds to avail a face saving exit. But a humiliating retreat of US is imminent which is written on the wall.

    After going through the recent allegations contained in the Matt Waldeman report about the Pakistan government’s links to the Taliban should be seen in this context and this may not be difficult to ascertain that end game may be drawing nearer for which all the effort may be in place, to make Pakistan a scapegoat and throw the blame of US defeat on pakistan that how an ally, who betrayed US and played a double game of working as the front state as ally of Us but underhand has been aiding Taliban which brought this day of defeat for the United States.

    The US friendship with its proxy Pakistan may be seeing a drastic setback and may turned out to be a zero sum game rather may see a much bitter a phase for a long time to come--- longer than the legacy of US defeat in Vietnam to keep US haunting in the future.

    Indeed, the entire exit strategy for the US lead NATO forces rests on the assumption that in time, Afghan police and army would be able to take over from their western counterparts. This would allow NATO to declare victory and go home. Clearly, the fighting capability of the local recruits is still far short of what is expected of them, raising serious questions about what will happen when the foreign troops go home.

    Gen McChrystal’s famous surge seems to be petering out and Helmond operation called operation; Mushtrak to cleanse the Taliban from their main head quarters in Helmand province has met its colossal failure. The local forces, trained at considerable expense by NATO troops, have proven to be inadequate for the task, and in many areas the Taliban are back in force.

    The popular assumption that corrupt puppet Karzai’s government somehow will be able to pursue the Afghans to reject the Taliban, and help the government to turn the tide against the forces led by Mullah Omar and other extremist leaders or force them to come to the table to grab their share of power on offer but this too has rejected by Taliban in the face of colossal failure that US lead NATO forces has seen in Helmand. Taliban foresee their come back; earlier than expected.

    Whereas the Taliban lead by Mullah Umer are fighting a legitimate war of the freedom of their country against the occupation of foreign forces but in the neighbouring Pakistan, the scenario is entirely different. Where, the local Tehrik e Taliban (TTP) since raised by the American CIA to counter the efforts of Taliban fighting in Afghanistan have since been unleashing havoc in the country. TTP through their subversive actions have certainly caused a severe blow to its economy which has depleted it considerably to a very low on its graph.

    TTP subversion has made many dents and left many painful scar to its economy and has left it depleted; but their act of treason and working as mercenaries for paltry money while playing in the hands of enemy of Pakistan has also left a good section of society which abets them; especially so called religious elites and groups are turned out to be morally bankrupt. CIA intrusions in our society may be objectionable but it is more damaging that the religious creed supposedly the defenders of the faith and Islam who enjoy a good hold on the illiterate masses of Pakistan is found trekking the route of treason and treachery. It is also tragic to know that the Pakistani patriots who try to name and shame them for their evil designs are subjected to their target killing.

    Scars inflicted by TTP and its cohort may be visible in the society but it is very encouraging that the timely actions of the able command of Gallant Armed Forces of Pakistan; their iron fist actions in Swat and now in FATA against these stooges have brought a halt to their subversion. A planned cleansing of this parasite from Pakistani soil is vigorously being carried out to cleanse the traitors out and once again make this land – a real Pak land.

    While American are set to retreat; a shiver in the pants of the hypocrite found ‘sleeping with the enemy’ is very much visible across the board and their dream castles are dismantling.

    Regards

    Links: http://www.adab-arz.co.uk/

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 13:13 #
  2. Again, AK, I agree with much of what you say above because it also corresponds with what I believe myself or have heard from other reliable sources, too. But, I'll venture on further comment only after I've been able to gauge what if any effect it has on other people. Otherwise I'll get hit over the head again.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 16:35 #
  3. Shock
    Members

    There is no proof of above claims. When U.S wants to retreat, it will do so. You just need some kind of good news for yourself, and something that can reduce the depression.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 16:45 #
  4. @all
    I commend/appreciate efforts by Aay Khokhar; his writings hold appeal being close to ground realities. Although I may not agree fully with him at times but other times I find no reason not to agree with his views.

    I wish our honorable members may take an example from him and his writings and begin writing intellectual substance, some quality stuff; and not just keep ourselves involved in use less mudslinging. We should learn to appreciate honest efforts by our honorable members.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 17:08 #
  5. Thanks for that, moderator sahib, thanks for that. I'm glad to see you share my own views about AK.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 17:12 #
  6. achtung
    Member

    i agree what semirza bhai say. may be i am wrong that we developed habit of seeing religion or sect of person when reading his post. we should see what person is writing and disscuss on that political issues without seeing what is his religion or sect.

    yes, in religious issues it may be different.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 17:33 #
  7. SufiSoul
    Member

    I dont know how people go side by side with arguments like US has a friend called Pakistan, against the MUJAHIDEEN fighting in afghanistan.
    On the other hand they say that TTP left many scars in many parts of the Pakistan.
    You give right to Pakistan to fight war with US against MUJAHIDEEN and left painful scars in Pakistani Tribal areas and you appreciate this process.
    But when it comes to retaliate by the tribals than you turmed it as,crualty,painful scars.It would be helpfull to learn that TTP was formed years after Pakistan started operations as US ally against Tribal areas of Pakistan.Attempting war against Pashtunes and not expecting/accepting any retaliation as a reaction, was just a day dreaming and needs to be come out..

    This double policy is not in the favour of PAKISTANI NATION as a whole.
    In Pakistan some minor groups have their interests and want the majority to fight between themselves to be able the country other minorities to enjoy a little bit room in Pakistan..

    I think the WAR between US and Pashtunes have gone to an end but a new war between Pashtunes and Pakistan is about to begin..
    The capturing and beheading of Pakistani soldiers on Pak Afghan border by TTA is the starting point of new war between TTA and Pakistan..

    Why Pashtunes would not take advantage of weaken Pakistani economy and weaken Evil forces around the world to Fight for Islam across the globe for muslim brothers in Kashmir,pelistine,chechniya etc.
    They are much trained,well equiped with high belief over ALLAH and can achieve what they want just within some decades.......
    Pakistan and pakistanis would be happy to come and accept such a MOVEMENT and to complete the HALF AGENDA of making Pakistan a REAL ISLAMIC STATE........

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 17:54 #
  8. zia m
    Member

    Very similar views expressed in an article in DAWN by Irfan Husain.Maybe just a coincidence.

    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/columnists/21-irfan-husain-endgame-in-afghanistan-960-sk-07

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 18:41 #
  9. SufiSoul, you at least have a whole agenda to present. I do not agree with it wholly. I know you are Pushtoon yourself and from the Pushtoons we expect honour and commitment to their promises. Fighting Pakistan is not the right way to go about keeping the promise they made to the Quaid-e-Azam that they would join Pakistan and fight to keep it intact, if you remember. As for Pakistan becoming a real Islamic State, just through words it will not be done. Let's once again become a State first and then we'll see about Islamic. Otherwise you'll be driving a Rolls Royce down mud paths with no roads in sight. Let us concentrate on the Ummah, the bringing of the Sharia up to date and such matters before we talk about a Real Islamic State, don't you think? Look at what passes for the Real Islamic State in many eyes at the moment Saudi Arabia. What has it ever done for fellow Arab State Palestine or for the Ummah to date? Nothing as far as I can tell. Muslimon ko amal karni chahiye, khali baat cheet nahin. Muslimon ko allah talha se mafi magni chahiye, phir baarkat mile gi aur ham taraki kar sakengen. ya nahin?

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 18:43 #
  10. Semirza,

    Thanks for your kind words and I can only say--- that I am humbled....obliged.

    With best of Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 18:45 #
  11. AK, where I wish to disagree with you for the moment concerns the following paragraph of your piece:

    "The popular assumption that corrupt puppet Karzai’s government somehow will be able to pursue the Afghans to reject the Taliban, and help the government to turn the tide against the forces led by Mullah Omar and other extremist leaders or force them to come to the table to grab their share of power on offer but this too has rejected by Taliban in the face of colossal failure that US lead NATO forces has seen in Helmand. Taliban foresee their come back; earlier than expected."

    As far as I have heard, the Taliban forces have agreed to join in a coatition government in Afghanistan, but on condition all foreign forces leave the country first. I do not expect Mullah Omar to lie about this. Also, I object to the use of the term "extremist" in connection with Resistance leaders. They are not the extremists. The extremists are the West which came out of the blue to invade an absolutely innocent Afghanistan on a series of absolutely absurd pretexts. Leave Afghanistan alone, say I, they have a thing or two to teach the entire world, not just the countries of the Muslim Ummah.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 18:51 #
  12. Zia m,
    In UK we have a forum called ‘Veranda Talk’ which is now transformed into a big restaurant; ‘Veranda talk’ a meeting place for few of us Pakistani in the out skirts of London---in Milton Keynes. I happen to be humble member of that.
    People are very perturb here that how Pakistan is being manipulated by US and the present day government which exercising their personal agendas. But we hope that our able military command that it seems to be at the helms of the affairs, is able to steer us through and brings about the right results...

    These are very testing times for Pakistan. Let’s pray for the special blessings of God Almighty.

    The truth about Afghanistan is simple and vivid that our neighbour is victim of phony war on terror and is in a fix up that US likes to make it to convert into a; Command post of her Imperialistic hegemony and is trying to bring the people of this region (which includes us) into US fold. All the Truth stems from the same plant of fairness---- Yes I have seen Irfan Hussain article in Dawn today; He depicts slighly different scenario---you may differ with his view points but man is very methodical and clear headed Pakistani and leaves a lasting impression on you. He does live here in UK.

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 19:27 #
  13. Ach, that explains all. I was about to ask if Irfan Hussain was a Pakistani or just an Indian asset. Because of his systematic abuse of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the very people who defend Kashmir and who have nothing to do with the Mumbai attack at all. Ah, leave it be. Everyone will again say: conspiracy nut, so I'm saying it in their place. But we know what we know. And in any case, even the Pak establishment always say amen to whatever is dictated to them. One more thing: India in Afghanistan. My personal appreciation of the situation is that if they couldn't take the west, they're certainly not going to take anything lying down from India. But time will tell.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 19:43 #
  14. Dear Friends,

    The success story of Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the soviet empire is worth praising. After a long time that Muslims had stayed aloof, in their hibernation that they had gone into, after the fall of Ottoman Empire; this was the first time that Muslims Ummah was seen awakened, upright having realized its true position.

    This was joint Pak-US operation which was carried out and fought by Pakistan to free Afghan land but after the retreat of Soviet Union; US found herself to be the sole super power and sadly so;abandoned mujahedeen and left them in a lurch.

    Mujahdeen success was a tall story to inspire and serve the rest of the Muslim world to carry out their respective jihad and fight the oppression.

    Alhamdo lillah Pakistan was the host of Jihadi Mjuahdeen then and even in these present day testing time--- is capable of leading and advancing the cause of Muslim Ummah from the front. I believe that Pakistanis are a versatile and resilient nation and a notch above the rest.

    But this is most pertinent to note that somehow on this band wagon of jihad which is plying in Pakistan; we find that its rein is found in the hands of some satanic elements where groups like TTP. Jash e Muhammadies etc etc are also allowed to ride. Reportedly they are on CIA payroll and have since hijacked the band wagon to serve their own personnel agenda; their mystification of the situation is so dense that it is difficult for the commoners to differentiate between right and wrong.

    This is damaging us, our country and the cause that we love to strive for ---Islam. It is maligning the true Jihad forces too.

    We need to differntiate and expell the balck sheeps after naming and shaming them.

    I believe that this may be a great service to this nation snd cause of Islam.

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 20:31 #
  15. We'll get there in the end, AK, we'll get there all right. Just keep our hearts clean, our intentions pure and carry out our religious duties, apart from the ritual ones. Allah Talah will do the rest.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 21:21 #
  16. MG,
    I left somthing for you at 'Ten Reasons Why the Afghan Resistance Will Win'

    Plz check out

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 21:41 #
  17. Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 21:52 #
  18. OK, I'll do that, thanks. Thanks as well for the smashing graveyard cartoon. If such a serious matter as a graveyard can ever be laughed about, it is in this depiction by Matson.

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 22:58 #
  19. SufiSoul
    Member

    Mirza Ghalib,

    I think and its fact also that bringing Pakistan according to ISLAMIC way of life is not something against the wishes of Quaide Azam and Allama Iqbal.
    Plz comment over if you are not agreed otherwise.

    NOW when this agenda in Pakistan is BLOCKED by west backed forces and left no room for any flexible Islamic Inqilaab than NATURE/CHANGE always find their way own.

    Comming to the so-called differences between different sects in Pakistan this is not something REAL but a contineous effort by west backed Institutions to widen these differences daily between shia/deobandi/barailvi etc.

    Why this is must??

    Due to the fact that all the learned and educated masses of Pakistan should bear in Mind for ever that due to DIFFERENCES of SUCH LEVEL in Pakistan ISLAMI NIZAM is not possible..

    This is exactly people are propagating daily in going against the possiblity of ISLAMI NIZAM..

    But let me ensure you that no one will be able for a "CHOON" even, under ISLAMIC LAW and ORDER requirements...

    The differences and other updating issues will be unable to find any ROOM within, as ISLAM is the solution for every thing...

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 23:51 #
  20. SufiSoul
    Member

    People are very active against changing their views and opinions.
    People which were busy in past saying that AFGHANIS are stupid by deciding to fight against US and will be defeated within days.
    NOW thay are busy in eleminating these ALLAH's forces by words lol,rather than getting some lessons of strong faith and turn towards the reality of Islam.BUT WE SHOULD HERE consider the sayings of Quran,

    SUMUN BUKMUN OMYUN FAHUM LA YARGIOON...............

    Today statments like these MUJAHIDS will go over and capture the land og pelistine,make these people laugh out loud,that how it is possible for a the ALLAH'S fighters to go and cross such Lands to overcome ISRAEL.

    I would say wat and see and it will be prove again that LOVE FOR DEATH IN THE WAY ALLAH is the only key to do such UNEXPECTED,NO TANK,NO MISSILE,NO ATOMIC BOMB,NO HIGHTECH,NO PHD, ETC......

    Let's wait and pray for that day Also to come with global victory........

    Posted 1 year ago on 19 Jun 2010 23:56 #
  21. No, SufiSoul, I agree with everything you say. I was just talking about the time factor. It will take a bit of time, seems to me, to get it right. We mustn't be in too much of a hurry. Slow and steady wins the race. That's all.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 0:05 #
  22. Sufi Soul and Friends,

    Islam is not just a religion but a way of life and it is such a way of life which bears the divinely sanctions.

    Who will not like that Islam comes in our lives and we attain the nearness of Allah too; but the problem is; ----when black sheep are also seen joining in, the ranks and the herd. Rather than preferring the common resolve of ijmah and live by it----they try to hijack the system to their use and impose their own ‘little black book’ agenda.

    One is horrified to find that their ‘little black book’ ----sadly contains the dictations of enemy of Islam....these black sheep are dictated to use the tactics by inducing ‘fear and terrify the masses' and coerce people to submit to their agenda.

    As I said earlier; at the moment, we need to shun this evil; name and shame them---throw them out---------and devise the methods that they remain filtered out in future. A big ;job that nobody is seen doing about it.

    Let’s say no to these stooges. Disassociate from them and stay clear.

    (I am purely talking from a Pakistani point of view; Plz do not bring in my Ahmadiyyat in it; that may be a very advanced stage in Islam)

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 8:27 #
  23. AK, fikar karne ki koi baat nahin. allah malik hai. wohi hame bacha ke rakhe ga.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 9:05 #
  24. You mean: Pawesta Reh; Shajjar se Umeed e bahar rakh

    But we must at least look after the tree that parasites do not come-- sit in the roots---rock and rot.

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 9:23 #
  25. AK, we are not the enemies. Look for them among the people in power and the invaders. We have the best interests of Pakistan and its people at heart. Side with us now. Later we'll see which way we advance and become Ummah-compatible, if I may use that barbaric term. For the moment it is: United we stand, divided we fall. Although, on second thoughts, can we go any lower than we have already? As for the tree, it's God's gift to mankind. If we ask for collective forgiveness, He will grant it us. Help us to keep our tree intact and free from parasites and other illnesses. Let us not in our despair take refuge in sectarian and minority issues.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 9:31 #
  26. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    What's the point of this article ? I see nothing in it that shows USA willingly wants to move out of this region.

    USA doesn't want to leave Afghanistan. Afghanistan offers a lot to USA. USA has vested geo-political, economical, social interests in this entire region.

    It is Muslims who are loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY who are fighting back, who are struggling to kick them out of here.

    Those among Muslims who;

    (a) subscribe to secularism
    (b) are from sects originally created by Colonial powers
    (c) criminals, traitors

    they are becoming/acting as faithful slaves of USA / Nato and their allies against interests, well-being of general populace of this entire region. They want to benefit personally by committing treason with people of this entire region. This is not!! acceptable.

    I have already put up interests of USA on this forum on previous threads, which includes but are not limited to;

    (1) Building or acquiring 14-24 military or air bases inside Afghanistan

    (2) Leaving behind an infrastructure in Afghanistan (i.e., democracy) through which they can remotely control Afghanistan and whatever goes on inside it

    (3) Safeguard oil pipeline route inside Afghanistan

    The path/route on which USA's troops are stationed in Afghanistan go exactly along the oil pipeline

    (4) To enable military presence right at the doorstep of China

    To threaten, to coerce China with their military presence, military power

    (5) To threaten, to coerce those nation states, who do not agree to obey/submit by USA's agenda as faithful slaves

    Those who keep their own agendas', their own interests above USA's interests.

    By USA, I mean interests of Zionists/Unjust Jews who control USA in more ways than one.

    (6) Afghanistan is the heart of this entire region, be it Muslim UMMAH or EurAsia

    By having military as well as air bases in Afghanistan, they can operate in all of this region, against Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, China, Russia, as well as EurAsian states like Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan, etc etc or anyone else who doesn't agree to become their slaves

    (7) To undermine interests of local people

    To take over resources, land, money, to exploit skilled hard working labour of countries of this region

    (8) To control oil supply, trade routes, water ways of this entire region

    USA wants to fill its treasury with money, more money looted from this region, by denying people of this region the prosperity they deserve.

    (9) to effectively, militarily threaten Muslims to obey to their whims or face military aggression/oppression

    Be it through diplomacy or through use of force, they want us to obey what they want.

    We will never allow this.

    (10) to coerce oil rich Muslim nation states to obey their designs, to continue to slave out to USA / Nato and their allies

    We will never! accept slavery, oppression.

    (11) to threaten/coerce Pakistan to give up its nuclear program, to rollback/shutdown its nuclear program

    (12) to threaten Iran to to give up its nuclear program, to rollback/shutdown its nuclear program

    (13) USA / Nato and their allies don't want people of this region to have independent thought, to conduct our own independent research programs, to spread education, to build next generation products on our own.

    If people of this region were to do it, it would end the prospects of Zionists/Unjust Jews. It would end USA's political, economic, etc etc hegemony over this entire world. USA would then have no power. No one would then invest money in USA.

    It will help people of this region show a practical example of a far! far! better way of life than that which USA (Zionists/Unjust Jews) is proposing to this entire world.

    It would show the world how Islam offers a far far better way of living our lives than what USA/Nato (Zionists/Unjust Jews) are proposing.

    USA / Nato (being run by Zionists/Unjust Jews and being supported by Christians), want Muslims as well as all other good people of this region to remain as slaves to them.

    (14) to give India the role of regional hegemon, for this entire region

    (15) etc etc

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 11:20 #
  27. HK, all that you say above is true enough. Those were the US plans. But what you plan is not always what you get, even if you are the still mighty west. West is on the verge of financial prolapse, that you do know through Celente and Keiser and others. For the past few months, Russia, China, Brazil and others have stopped buying US bonds. Russian Pres Medvedev has now come out openly and said the ruble should also figure among the major currencies, along with some five others. The US dollar monopoly is disappearing as fast as their soldiers are. A recent study, posted here, shows the USans alone have lost some 500.000 soldiers in the Afghan-Iraq wars. In Afghanistan, NATO countries are slowly about to pull out their soldiers. In Germany alone, 83% of the population are against carrying out this highly unpopular war, for instance; in Britain it is 63% against it, etc., etc. So, yes, we do see this war coming to an end soon. Check out the Obama's Wars thread on this site, too where Tariq Ali offers the same view. And as for India,regional hegemon, the very idea makes one laugh. Another one of US-Israel's pipedreams.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 12:38 #
  28. Haris khan and friends,

    We have discussed a lot about US intention and about her hegemonic ambitions in order to secure Afghanistan which is at the cross road of all the economic resources; the Biagram Air Base near Kabul may serve them as the hub and a mega Command post for the Imperialistic designs of United States of America.

    That is just the ambition and an adventurism the US has undertaken and travelled all the way here after crossing the seven Seas. Prior to coming here--- has taken some time in creating an anchorage in Iraq (green zone)and after having the entire Middle east in her fold has moved up here to grab this region. This can be said that to stay in Afghanistan for US is; now or never. Retreat may not be their option but---you may no achieve all that what you wish or plan.

    In 2006 when so called invincible Armed forces of Israel attacked southern Lebanon. In the attack Israeli air force did not confronted even a single sparrow in the air space and Israeli played havoc to the southern Lebanon and destroyed all what they could but for the Valour, steadfastness and the resolve of rag-tag Hezbollah; the invincible Israelis ground forces with their Markova tanks that they call them: the God’s Chariots. With their best efforts put in; they could not cross the Latini river at the border.

    Hezbollah used a simple tactics. Lie low and come up to strike the tanks in their blind zone which is to get that much closer (30 to 50 meter of distance) and strike with Antitank piercing RPG-7. Lo; it blasts. Israeli forces were bogged down and were forced to retreat.

    So has America suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of rag-tag Taliban. Taliban tactics is complex tactics being fought at many fields but in the face of their unflinching resolve the Imperialistic power finds no way but to retreat.

    In Pakistan it is different; in Pakistan we have got the CIA brain child; the home grown American stooges called TTP and their cohorts are active, serving as CIA mercenaries. Deputed to make us bleed and deplete. Their havoc displayed is far reaching. This brain child happens to be our own juvenile-- infused with CIA doctrine to serve as dare devil robot(suicide bomber).

    The juvanile and their doctrinaires are living among us in disguise; we need to sift through our society; hash up; find them and name and shame the traitors. They may be even our close relations that is how our society has grown very much a hypocrite society.
    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 12:46 #
  29. Es Ghar ko lag gaie Aag; Ghar kay chiragh say

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 13:08 #
  30. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I'm sorry. The infrastructure in Pakistan through which foreign entities rule over us is called 'democracy'.

    TTP was a tiny group (created by Pak Army itself) of people, given the task to 'start' violence in order to defocus general public from what the actual stooges (i.e., those who are in power in Pakistan right now) are/were doing.

    Army + feudal politicians + bureaucracy + businessmen + (so called) intellectuals, analysts, mass media people have been stooges of USA/Nato and their allies since Pakistan was created. You are absolving them of their part in this crime. You haven't even bothered to mention them as well as their part of the work in it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 13:55 #
  31. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    TTP's job was to defame the label 'Taliban'. They wanted to 'brand manage' the label 'Taliban', to make it a hateful name in the eyes of people of Pakistan.

    However Army's illegal as well as unneeded military operations in FATA area turned it into a movement of victims of those military operations.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 14:03 #
  32. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    The way to cleaning up our society is by implementing impartial, across the board, FAST!, non-discriminatory justice which obeys Islam's standards.

    People in our society, especially the educated, need to learn what Islam says, in order to have an understanding.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 14:05 #
  33. HK, your version of what TTP is all about sounds as good as the other version: TTP, RAW/Mossad/CIA trained Pushtoons to destabilise Pakistan. Which the correct one is I still do not know. Only one thing is clear: Either way, it gives the Afghan Resistance a bad name.

    Returning to topic: There's another version of the invader story in Afghanistan which I forgot to mention earlier on. SufiSoul Sahib has also mentioned something similar in various posts. And the West's greatest enemies are all for it, namely to turn the Afghan War into a Sebastopol (the battle which broke the back of the German army in Russia during WWII), the better to weaken and eliminate the West from its top power position. According to that theory, the longer the invaders stay on in Afghanistan, the better for us all in the long run.

    So there we have it. Two different events, two different stories.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 14:17 #
  34. I hope America and NATO leave Afghanistan hopefully in the near future but what bothers me most is why American is busy building indestructible fortresses in Iraq (Basra) Afghanistan (Bagram) Pakistan (Islamabad) Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan etc?

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 16:11 #
  35. shimatoree
    Member

    The West is stuck in Afghanistan and they are going to need a clean way to get out.
    From their perspective , they would like to leave in a more subtle manner than they did in Veitnam.
    The problem is they cannot. The Pushtoons are very different people but they are not the problem. The main problem the West faces are the Takfiri Islamists who are expanding their numbers. They cannot be bought out or bribed. Like all ideologues before them, the IDEA is the ONLY important thing for them. And the engine that is driving them is Palestine.
    So if the West leaves tomorrow- they will follow the West to wherever the West is.And they will destroy- I said they WILL destroy anyone who is or has been allied or supports the West . One step further- they will de-legitimize their opponents by using this label of supporter- of- the West.

    Mirza Sahib is correct in pointing out the forces that want the West to be bled in Afghanistan over a long time which might turn out to be not too long as the masses in the Western countries are getting fed up and will not elect anyone who will not end the Afghan mess.
    Elections in the USA are in 2 years time so.

    Mirza Sahib is wrong in saying that Sevastopol caused the German defeat.-( more on that later)

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 16:12 #
  36. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Mirza Ghalib: I'm not defending TTP. Neither am I saying they are good people.

    What I'm trying to say is;

    (1) Army created them

    Army higher ups in their blind lust to maintain their power, their money, their land embezzlement schemes in Pakistan, they have continuously made groups, one after the other, so these groups would continuously use up their strengths in fighting each other, while Army would maintain power in Pakistan.

    Add to that the fact that Army has turned and twisted justice system of Pakistan since Pakistan was created. I want to see an end to this nonsense by Army higher ups, be them those who subscribe to secularism or otherwise. I want to put an end to this nonsense once and for all.

    Army heads those who believe in secularism or otherwise have denied people of Pakistan the comfort of;

    (a) choosing their own leaders
    (b) justice

    since Pakistan was created. They continue to do the same even today.

    This injustice is one of the biggest causes of ALL other injustice we see inside our country.

    Issue of lack of good governance comes up when people are denied the right to choose their leaders. Leaders from within people live among the people, work for the people. As a result peace, harmony, cohesion, prosperity comes in the society.

    Army created PPP, PML-N, MQM, TTP, and other groups so they can deny people of Pakistan the right to choose their leaders. More recently it has created 'lashkars' to fight people of FATA.

    Army higher ups have been;

    (a) obeying/promoting agendas', interests of the west
    (b) promoting secularism in our society, in our country
    (c) eating money from west
    (d) working in their own personal interests, rather than in the interests of people of this nation

    (2) Existence of TTP as well as what they are doing is the result of decades of injustice by Army (which is a feudal lord, land mafia, etc etc) + feudal politicians with the people of that region

    (3) People of that region were denied basic human rights such as justice, availability of basic necessities of life, encouragement to start and run businesses, be able to take part in politics, in order to manage affairs of their people, etc etc

    (4) The solution to problem there was to be multi-proned. However it could have been resolved through peace talks. We did not need military operations to resolve problems there

    I have a saying I repeat every now and then, which is;

    If justice was provided, militancy, groups like TTP will vanish into thin air.

    Non-availability of justice is the main reason FATA as well as other places of Pakistan are starting to flame up.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 16:59 #
  37. Moderator Sahib, these fortresses are being built, true enough. And equally true, I imagine, is that over time they will become empty hulks of buildings which can neither be kept up nor occupied. By which I mean the money is running out on US. No money, no soldiers. So I myself take all these buildings with a pinch of salt. They'll finally serve no purpose. It will all turn out to be simply bluff.

    shimatoree sahib, I did not quite say Sevastopol caused the defeat of the German army. I said it broke the back of the German army, i.e. they were no longer the same fighting fit forces they had been before Sevastopol. Furthermore, if what is needed to free Palestine are the "Takfiri Islamists", then I'm all on their side. May they give the West some of the same medicine that 10% of the world's population has been meting out to the rest of the world for centuries and centuries.

    HK, I think no one is defending the TTP here. And had they had justice, whether from the Government or the Army, we should not be in the state we are in today regarding them.
    And yes, if only justice were available in our country, we should willingly eat just one meal a day and still consider ourselves blessed. BTW, I've just finished listening to the last Dr Israr video and feel extremely moved and strenghtend. Once again, thank you.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 17:18 #
  38. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Welcome. It is my intention to;

    (1) spread awareness, to give people the knowledge for them to make educated decisions in living their lives

    (2) work for the benefit of mankind

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 17:57 #
  39. achtung
    Member

    mirza ghalib bhai

    difficult for me to understand what you wish by saying “turn the Afghan War into a Sebastopol (the battle which broke the back of the German army in Russia during WWII), the better to weaken and eliminate the West from its top power position. According to that theory, the longer the invaders stay on in Afghanistan, the better for us all in the long run”

    on one side we reject american intervention in afghanistan. on other side we say it is better for if invaders stay there for longer time.

    this look to me as very selfish because if they stay longer, ordinary innocent people of afghanistan will suffer more and more. are we interested in damaging invaders at the cost of innocent afghan population? not sound good to me. earliest departure of invaders is better option.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 18:51 #
  40. achtung, I fear I'm on your side on this one. Go today, I'd say, and leave us to control the damage war has caused.

    But I did say, the worst enemies of the west, by which I meant, apart from Afghanistan and Iraq, the world around the globe, because, believe me, the west (let me be specific on that: by west is meant, Europe (minus Russia), US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Israel and their allies) is hated by many, many people. Now, for instance, Russia and China could provide the Afghan Resistance with weapons which would do the invaders such harm, they wouldn't even hesitate to leave. But they're not doing so on the reasoning that the longer west stays in Afghanistan, the more bankrupt it grows. Because there's that as well. West is on the verge of utter bankruptcy. So that's how one school of thought reasons. And I agree as far as power politics go, then my humanity comes in and I disagree because I want to see them gone as soon as possible for the very reasons you mention above.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Jun 2010 19:35 #
  41. The Obama administration reaffirmed Sunday that it will begin pulling U.S. troops out of Afghanistan next summer, despite reservations among top generals that absolute deadlines are a mistake.

    President Barack Obama's chief of staff said an announced plan to begin bringing forces home in July 2011 still holds.

    "That's not changing. Everybody agreed on that date," Rahm Emanuel said, adding by name the top three officials overseeing the policy girding the war: Gen. David Petraeus, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen.

    Source: Conservative mag

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Jun 2010 0:46 #
  42. Posted 1 year ago on 21 Jun 2010 8:15 #
  43. What price Afghanistan?

    For article by Pat Buchanan, former US Presidential (Left winger) Conservative Candidate. Very revealing.

    Please link: http://www.adab-arz.co.uk/

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Jun 2010 8:22 #
  44. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    I don't believe in what they say. They never do what they say they will do. They always do what they say they will not do.

    I prefer to wait and see for myself.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Jun 2010 8:54 #

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