Using violence as a tool to achieve goals

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Using violence as a tool to achieve goals

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Anonymous

THIS POST IS NOT ABOUT INTERNATIONAL POLITICS OR
HALAL-HARAM OR SOVIET OR US INTENTIONS OR ABOUT POLITICAL PARTIES. PLEASE COMPLETELY READ THE POST FIRST AND LET US KNOW IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH THE ARGUMENT AND WHY.(sorry for caps)

We, as a nation, should learn NOT to support any group that uses violence as a tool to acheive its goals no matter how noble are their goals.
There is a very good reason to not support such people and here is the reason:

Any group that uses violence is not dependent on public support. The group might seek public support but is not dependent on it. When we support such group we infact support the group's intentions only, while completely ignoring their capacity (which is the ability to effectively use violence to achieve a goal). Now the group's intentions are made by a small number of people and is effectively a human trait which is extremely unpredictable and can be changed at any time. Also, intention being an intangible concept can not be verified.
As a result, group's intention might change at any time that may be against public interest. However, since public supported the group for a long time, group accumulates enough capacity (power) to ignore public sentiment and implement its own agenda.
For example, lets say Taliban say they want to implement shaira (which is a noble cause) but use violence as a tool. Public support Taliban because of their noble intention to implement sharia but ignore the tool (violence) Taliban is using to achieve the goal. Now lets say Taliban gain power in NWFP and the whole population is dependent on them. Next day, Taliban ruler says I WANT ALL WOMEN TO TALK AROUND NAKED. Can public say no to him? Is there anyway to stop Taliban ruler to not issue such orders to take back such orders? Answer is NO. why? because now Taliban has gained enough power (capacity) to completely ignore public sentiments and public have no say in the decision process.

On the other hand, a democratic government can not do such a thing because there are different institutions that can force a democratic government to respect strong public sentiment. Also, after 4 or 5 years public can choose NOT to elect such an official or a group to come into power again.

Please consider this argument when deciding to support one group or another.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 18:53 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

Ab khush,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:05 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

http://x.pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=5217

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:08 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Tum Maroo tou koyee baat naheee
Hum marain tou ALLAH ALLAH!

HA HA

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:09 #
Anonymous

skyfacts, my post is not about supporting Taliban in Afghanistan or about international politics. My post is about our national behavior and our decision making process. It applies to Taliban as well as any other party with any agenda.

Iran supported your "mujhaideen" and we never heared Ahmed Shah Masood's party taking over Zahidaan (a city in Iran).

If Taliban wants to implement Sharia they should make a political party and run in elections.

Supporting someone in another country is one thing and letting someone rule us is another.

Again, my post is about our decision-making process and NOT about Afghanistan or iraq war.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:15 #
skyfacts
Blocked

KHAN_Sahib

KHARAP GUZAAR KAYE KALA KALA.........

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:16 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

We need to INFORM ISI about this process too!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:17 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@SKYFACTS,
MAA SOAK PRAH DEE NO ZA BAA DOYEEE NA KHAZAAY WALAMMA KHOO SAH UKKO, MUNG KAY UNITY NEESH TA!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:18 #
Anonymous

No we first need to understand about the process ourselves.
Secondly, I did'nt understand the posts you made, can you please translate?
Again, please comment on whether or not you agree with my argument and if you want provide reason for your agreement or disagreement.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:23 #
skyfacts
Blocked

you are not free to decide about your policies,you cannot imagine the concern with ur country americans has.....

DIL KE BEHLANY KO GHALIB YE KHAYAL ACHA HY......

yes we should have some planns for our future too......
but yara some international politics discussion is must as these have a great impact upon your policies......

KHUSH RAHO...

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:23 #
Anonymous

skyfacts bhai, we as a public should atleast evaluate our thinking and decision making process. Whether or not it translates into a public policy is another issue.

I am not saying if we should or should not support someone in Afghanistan it is about our decision making approach.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:25 #
skyfacts
Blocked

KHAN_Sahib

UNITY RARAWAN DA........

kha tha sanga ye .kum zy ye sa kaway.da kam zi ye...sa kho owaya kana.......

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:26 #
skyfacts
Blocked

obaid yara ye post edit is not good buddy.........

i can understand ur emotions.......young blood....and things like that.........but i will reply at any other time.......halat bohat sakht a rahy hain yara agay kia batawon.....

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:29 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

violence is not gud!
you can not win hearts with violence
violence will make u the object of hatred even if u r rite
violence is against the teaching of ISLAM.
BUT

When the other party is violent
when they bomb your houses,villages,towns and cities in the name of war on terror
when they fail to see the casulties and the human sufferings
when they fail to see you as humans and one of them
Then we are not GANDHI JI'S followers!

wafa karro gay
tou wafa karain gay
jaffa karo gay tou bhee wafa karain gay
phirr bhee nahee manoo gay tou
hum tumharee bhee khateeya karee kur dain gay!
kayoun kay bahi jaan!
hum admee hain tum say zara mukhtaliff!
hum iss raat kee SEHER karain gay!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:29 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

bsobadi...
Its call Pushtu...
Just the way, being pukhtoon, i know urdu,punjabi and sindhi... U guys should try to lean and understand pushtu instead of rediculing them in general!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:34 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

edit iss not gud.....
people edit their views after other one reply! Not fair!
but then what is fair in life!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:35 #
Anonymous

well said khan_sahib.
However, my case is different.

If Taliban wants to fight against US or Soveits because they invaded their country, they are free to do so.
However, if they want to implement their ideology using violence in Pakistan that have not invaded their country is not good. Why? because there are ways to achieve their goal like running in elections.
Also, say if fazlullah or Bugti use violence to take over NWFP and Balochistan respectively how can we ensure they will continue to follow sharia once they are in power?
How can you ensure they will not ask women to walk around naked? how can you ensure they wont rape woemn? how can you ensure they wont ask men to walk upside down?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:35 #
Fahim23
Member

@Khan_Sahib

Since you fail to appreciate the effectiveness of gandhi ji's policy let me remind you the 13 years of Maccan life. "Persecution and oppression of worst kind but not even allowed to retaliate!" Why?..to achieve greater and long term good!

I hope this will ring some bells. Not because you will get any logic in non-violence movement but probably the example of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) excite you like most muslims!

Your first paragraph which states "Violence is not Good" is very wise statement and you should believe in it and stick to it.

PS: I thought most Pathans are Gandhi ji's followers? Great Bacha khan was!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:36 #
Anonymous

Khan Sahib, I was not rediculing you by any means. If you felt I was, I seek your apology. Infact, I did not even know it was pushtoo. I do agree with you that we should learn other Pakistani languages too.

In my edit I just added more information to make everyone understand the post. I did not change my original argument.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:37 #
Anonymous

I apologize skyfacts and Khan_sahib for editing my original post. The edit was not just for you but for everyone to understand my post better.
I also appreciate your constructive replies. Please continue discussion so we can all learn more.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:40 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

dear filhaal TTP is not interested to that level, sharia law in pakistan.They will accept it if it is implemented.

The seen is that you are going to help americans against Afghan Taliban,by wash out their base points and support of the TTP.
So TTP was established to stop your army demolishing their areas of support to TTA.
pls try to understand the role of TTP in favouring TTA.

i think you must be happy with this.....

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:47 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

@FAHIM23,
Not every one is a follower of BACCHA khan.. Certainly I am not!
I see him as a great politican and a human but do differ some of his ideology! See.. I don't support people on the basis of their colour or their ethnic background..

As regards to your reference to the early days of ISLAM,
Brother! I or any of us can even achieve the 1000000000000 of Muhammad PBUH achievements or his "SABAR"
This is time for JIHAD... Starting from
JIHAD E NAFAS FIRST!
Why are we divided in so many sects!
forget Jews and christians and hindus
why are we killing each other?
look at this board/forum
can u see the hatred among us?
Cn u see the hatred on the basis of our language and our sect
BUT
coming back to the topic..
Its time for JIHAD...
You can not fight against Drones and Rockets with Argumets and protests any more!
tHAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT i AM in favour of these Talibans..
I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THEM
but watever I know , the truth of reality is that Talibans are not to be blamed for every **** wat is happening there..
Pakhtoons are religious.. if they want SHARIAH in their areas then what is wrong in it? NOT every Pakistani knows that there was shariah laws in swat before all this operation which was frozen by previosu govts..
Talibans are not angels either but ISI is the biggest culprit along with the establishment !!!!

AND BHAI.... who says that BUGTI OR BAITULLAH MASSOD ARE GOOD MUSLIMS or Pakhtoons want their type of ISLAM,,,
bAITHULLAH SHOULD BE HUNT DOWN AND CIA AGENTS LIKE HIM SHOULD ALL BE KILLED, AND AS I SAID SHOULD BE HUNT DOWN LIKE THE ONE IN LONDON AND IN PRESIDENTIAL HOUSE.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:50 #
Anonymous

I think TTP themselves are not helping us to help them. If they really want to keep their war to Afghanistan then why take over Swat? why take over the whole Mlakand division?

If they really want to kick US out, they should fight with them in Afghanistan. They are good fast bowlers, they should also learn to be a good batsman.

However, I was talking about our decision-making process. You might say violence is acceptable in Afghanistan because US is occupying the country, which could be fine, but my post is not about Afghanistan it is about Pakistan.

If you think it is acceptable in NWFP then please try to answer the questions I asked in my original post.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:53 #
Anonymous

Khan_sahib. I completely agree with your argument that if Swatis want Sharia law then what is the problem implementing sharia law in Swat?
However, how do we know Swaits want Sharia Law? because Muslim Khan say so? because Hamid Meer say so?
No, we can only find out about what Swatis want by seeing who they elect in elections. If taliban think they can implement Sharia Law, they should run in elections, win seats in Swat and pasa a lesgistlation in the assemble to implement the law. If someone rig elections then they all the rights in the world to protest against this injustice.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 19:57 #
Fahim23
Member

@Khan_Sahib

you used "Then WE are not GANDHI JI'S followers" so I thought you are talking on behalf of Pashtun ppl which I believe MOST (not all) of them were followers of Gandhi ji. I also carefully used MOST pashtuns not all pashtuns. Anyways this is not the discussion here.

I am not sure whether you too like most ppl confuse Jihad with Qatal or not. But Jihad for a muslim never stops. It is a continuous process. However if you meant for Qital. We are not ready for that at all. Neither in terms of worldly matters nor in terms of moral and spiritual matters.

We need to prepare for Qital. While Jihad already is continuous and will continue for forever InshALLAH.

Beside are you sure that there was Shariah in Sawat before 1977? or after 1994? I don't have first hand knowledge on it. But I heard one Pashtun journalist (probably sawatian) saying that there was never Shariah in Sawat or Malakand district. There was a Monarchy and the rule of Kings and Princes prevailed. Would appreciate if you educated me. But if they did enjoyed Shariah ...it is very unfortunate and disappointing to see the plight of ppl from Malakand division despite "Shariah" even before 1970s.

Also does Sawatian really want Shariah. In the last elections they voted for ANP and PPP I believe? And does Mulana Sufi and TTP represent Sawatians?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:01 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Not just swatis but majority of inhibatabts of Pukhtoonkhwa wants SHARIAH!
and please dont talk to me about that wanker hamid meer etc..

Just read this link and thats what i truely think will stop talibaan and all extremism by talibaan being supported if we do implement shariah.

http://x.pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic.php?id=3889

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:01 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Historically, in swat and in FATA region, there were no ENGLISH LAWS or PAKISANI LAWS ever implemented..
All the fights, issues were dealt by local MULLA with consultation of Quran though the issue of LAND and Murder were always dealt in JIRGA which will have the elders from all the village usually in excess of 20/30 people.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:06 #
Fahim23
Member

@Khan_Sahib

"Not just swatis but majority of inhibatabts of Pukhtoonkhwa wants SHARIAH!"

How come ANP won the majority of seats and ruling Pakhtunkhuwah? I thought they are the most secularist party of Pakistan?

If you do referendum in Pakistan about Shariah I think 90% of muslims of Pakistan (nost just pakhtunkhuwah) will say they want shariah. But they have no idea what Shariah is and how it will be implemented.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:06 #
Fahim23
Member

@Khan_Sahib

So Jirgah is Shariah? Is that you guys want? 20 30 ppl deciding the matters of life and death for you?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:08 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Voting ANP is nothing to do with SHARIAH!
ANP WON cuz in the previous elections the so called ISLAMISTS PARTIES **** up BIG time..
I agree that most of Pakistanis want SHARIAH but like most of them I dont want JI OR JUP OR TALIBAAN SHARIAH!
I WANT SHARIAH ACCORDING TO QURAN AND RASOOL UL LAH!
NO **** WAHBI,DEVBANDI,BRALVI,SUUNI,SHIA'S ISLAM
THERE IS ONLY ONE ISLAM!
I DONT ACCEPT THESE SECTS!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:10 #
netengr
blocked

Accoding to Qazi Hussain that Talibans are created by agencies and USA .

If we agree on one point then why JI ask dialog with them ??
If they are US agent why JI ask to impliment their sharia law ??
Why they oppose operation if they are agent ??

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:13 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

Jirga @ the moment is the only closest form to SHARIAH!
Have u been involved in any court matters and have attended the COURTS?
You can not even think of lying in Jirga cuz their is no such things as TOUTS or you can't buy the whole jirga..
I can kill anyone in broad day light in pakistan and still can get away and become a governor like ishrat ul abad..
but if he would have been trialed in a jirga, today u would have been writing RIP with his name..
SAYING THAT, I AM STILL LOOKING FORWARD TO THE REAL SHARIAH AND dont want to take the right of Pukhtoons to have the system they think is best for them.. Just like MQM wants democracy but not SHARIAH!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:14 #
Anonymous

If anyone advocate any means besides election to implement sharia anywhere in Pakistan should answer my questions.

Say Mulla Umar and his army takes over Raheem Yar Khan and implement Sharia because people in Raheem Yar Khan want Sharia.

Here is my question. Mulla Umer is ameer-ul-momineen and his army is sahabas.
Say, someone mixes bhung in mulla Omer's orange juice and Mulla Omar goes crazy. He passes a rule saying all women should walk around naked in Raheem Yar Khan. Khan_sahib you tell me, first, how can you stop Mulla Omar to pass such order? secondly, even if order is passed, how can you have Mulla Omar take this order back? Thirdly, if mulla Omar goes crazy and become yahoodi how can awam of Raheem Yaar Khan remove him from office?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:15 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

NETENGRR...
If British Govt can get into dialouge with IRA which was labelled as "TERRORIST" ORGANISATION by britain (Jerry Adams used to visit USA to collect funds (chanda) from irish americans) while according to british govt he and his party was banned and terrorist group so why can't Pakistani Govt enter into Dialouge with them? I think that they are scared that people would then find out the ugly face of ISI! LOL
Though Pakistan Army had befriended MQM which on records is anti-pakistan and its head is a CIA Agent but then out HEAD of state is one of them too! so its ok if u bring the most corrupt person as our head of state... is ok if u bring a murderer as governor of sindh, its ok if u let MQM take over the most important city of pakistan and esablish a strong bhatta mafia but we should not negotiate with Talibans as they are BAD BAD People cuz WE THE PAKISTANI/ISI Created them... You guys make me laugh!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:22 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

Actually again u r missing some politics here.

TTA was never concerned about pakistan unless you tryed to wash out their base camps in pakistan tribal areas.This was the fact that due to US pressure you jumped into this war.
This leads to creat TTP in pakistan ,to safeguard the bases helping TTA.
And know you are with american pressure to stop resistance in Afghanistan against US.
pls correct your history to this.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:24 #
KHAN_Sahib
Member

bsobaid...
Your arguments are like a 6 years old kids,,,
mulla omar ko bhang pilla day tou raheem yaar khan may nude ourtain ghomeen geen!!!
BHAI SAHIB!
Pehaly apnay yeah kaysay assume kur leeya kay mulla umar ameer hain iss mulk kay?
We want SHARIAH!
NOT A VESRION OF ALTAF,QAZI,FAZAL,SHAREEF,TALIBAAN, OR Zardari's SHARIAH!

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:25 #
Fahim23
Member

@Khan_Sahib

Jirga are not peculiar to Pahstun Culture they are all over sub-continent. And I beg to state that IMO they are not even close to Shariah. The Pakistan's democracy is more close to Shariah then Jirga Systems. Jirgah are the products of tribal culture which outdates 14 century old Islamic system.

And I do have the experience of Jirgah and Pakistani courts. The later is at least relatively fool proof on papers while the former has blunderous flaws in its essence. I would still prefer modern Judicial system. It is not perfect but much better than "Jirgah" system. I can quote you horrendous decisions that come from Jirgah. As we say that if we want to judge the Shariah law then we should refer to the rule of first caliphs. Similarly if we want to judge modern judicail system then we should refer to the English and American courts. Not Pakistani courts. The same ppl who are in our courts are the same ppl who sit in Jirgahs and they both don't serve justice.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:28 #
netengr
blocked

@khan Sab

on one side they say " Islam main deshatgerdi aur galay katna nahi " ,"Taliban USA ki sazish ka hissa hain aur islam ko bad naam ker rahay hain ","taliban agencies kay banayeh hue hain "

but they also say

"taliban aur hamaray maqasid aik hain "
"taliban jo kuch ker rahay hain woh sharia hay "
"taliban shariat chahtay hain un say dialog kiya jayeh "

i do not say that we should not dialog with them but 2 totally different opinion for them some time they become Islamic and some time they become US agent ,that is very strange .

Jamaat Islami taliban ki terha apni bhi baqa ki jang ler rahi hay aur woh poray pakistan ko bhi is jang main dakailna chahati hay .

Pakistani should not be with USA nither with Mulla or Jamaati Agenda .

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:28 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

And what do you think about current rulers of Pakistan,isn't it they are imposed by all the time with a pre-desighned elections according to the MASTERS.
Look when it comes to broad scenerio things always get pretty clear.
If people of pakistan set amovement for sharia which is as per your constitution than consttuition also has the ways to go for it and implement no one can teach us any thing on the name pure shria.Sharia is all available in written for in QURA and HADEES.No ameerul momineen can change the rules of the shria here. its obviouse .

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:29 #
Anonymous

Khan_sahib

No one has issues with you or pakistani nation wanting sharia. They can want sharia, they can want yahdooiat, they can want esaiyatt, they can want anything they like but how can we ensure Pakistani nation get what they want? This is the whole point of my post and my argument is that by electing someone who Pakistanis think can do what Pakistanis want. If someone stands up and say he can implement sharia and he is ameer-ul-momineen and take over country then you CAN NOT ensure that the person will give you what you wanted.
This is all I want Pakistanis to think. How can we as Pakistanis can ensure we get what we want.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:33 #
skyfacts
Blocked

netengr

Yara you confusing so many things here dear....
Just try to undertand the seen and film going on here in this region first.
Its a fact Taliban and Alqaida combined with USA and Friends to wash out USSR .
And they again now are ready to wash out USA.
SO THE MUSLIM GROUPS GET LOT OF EXPERIENCE AND WAR TACTICS FROM US AGAINST RUSSIA.
This is the thing ppl get confused about the credentials of muslims fighters.........

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:36 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

SHARIA IS no issue at all to implement here.Our constitution says it all ,to be according to sharia,but let me ask a question.

Why are you not able to fully implement sharia in pakistan as a full legal system,and you have mix of sharia and british laws.???

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:40 #
Anonymous

skyfacts, I think we are in agreement now.

You say no ameer-ul-momineed can change quran hadees. I agree, but say the ameer-ul-momineen passes an order that is against quran hadees, I mean ameer-ul-momineen is a human and he can make a mistake, right? Lets say he passes such an order that is against quran o hadees. How can you say no to that order if he was not elected ameer in elections and he has his own army? I guess the only way is to fight against it and do lots of killings, right?
but if we a true democratic and islamic government then we there is a judiciary where you can file against the order. There is a national assembly (call it shura council) where all representatives can say this rule is against Quran and refuse to pass it from the assembly. Since ruler have to go to assembly to pass his orders, this way we can ensure nothing against quran is passed. Lets say even assembly passes a law against quran then in next elections people can elect some other party that wont pass anything against quran o hadees. The fact that people can remove a ruler from office in next election keeps a ruler from passing anything against quran o hadees.

On the other hand, if ameer-ul-momineed is running his own army he can do anything he wants and only way to challenge such a decision is to "fight" against it.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:45 #
Anonymous

We are not able to completely implement sharia because (1) people have not elected a political party that claims to to implement sharia law in its entirity which means awam is not yet ready for complete sharia and sharia proponents need to raise public awareness. (2) There has not been democracy in Pakistan for the most part.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:46 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

Sharia based Pakistan would be rather different than the current Pakistan.
If you just try to implement the ,Article 62 and 63 of the constitution than you will find only 5% of the current representatives in assembly.
Article 62 and 63 have strict islamic rules for the representatives to be elected.
Now you are running out of the representatives in assembly .
How will you go ahead with this desighn???

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 20:58 #
skyfacts
Blocked

Actually our current setup is totally against the rules and regulations as prescribed by the constitution.
So how can you go with the current set up.??

ARE YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE WITHOUT ANY WRITTEN CONSTITUTION??

:)

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 21:01 #
Anonymous

skyfacts, you say if article 62 and 63 are enforced most of MNAs would have to leave assebmly. Fine!
Lets elect other people who are good citizens and good muslims. Now that might not happen in next elections probably not in elections after the next one but gradually corrupt people will be kicked out by awam and sincere people will get elected.

All we have to do is to let democracy function.
When government representatives (or call them shura of ameer-ul-momineen ) are elected by public, the ameer-ul-momineen and his shura are always under pressure to act in accordance with Sharia because public wants sharia and if they wont then they know public wont elect them in next elections. On the other hand, if ameer-ul-momineen and his shura is not elected by awam and they used violence and force to get into power then they dont care what awam thinks, they do what they want to do.

This is what this thread is all about. I am very happy that we both seem to agree to a great some extent now.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 21:23 #
Anonymous

Also skyfacts if we dont have enough sincere people to run in elections because of article 62 and 63 then this means our public and we as a society is not ready for Sharia yet and we need to raise public awareness (tabligh) so we have enough sincere people to sit in elections. We all know " awam kay aamal he onn pay hukoomat kartay hein". If awam is corrupt then there is no way we can have sincere leaders so we need to do Tabligh.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 21:28 #
skyfacts
Blocked

bsobaid

DEMONCRACY IS FUNCTIONING.
But you know isn't it amazing about it that we have a precise information to divide the seats between parties ,before going to held election.
This is what as you say that AWAM is electing the representatives.
NOT AWAM but shaitans are used to poll the votes ,to come up with the desinghned setup.So any expectations from this system would be............useless.
These SELECTIONS(not elections leave our AWAM very unpopular).
VOTE KOI AUR DALTHA HY BADNAAM AWAM HOTHY HAIN.

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 21:30 #
Anonymous

Sir, I agree with you but we do not have any other option. Actually we do have another option which is to gradually change this process. If all politicians are corrupt and awan wants sincere leadership then eventually there will be leadership from awam getting into assemblies.

Look, a party can rig elections and win if it has, say 40% votes but they cant rig and win elections when only have 3% support. If there is a 80% awami support for a party then there is no way anyone can rig elections and let another party with 5% support to form a government.

Ask yourself, do you really think Imran Khan has more popular support than PML-N or PPPP ?
Do you really think Jamat-e-Islami can win all seats in Karachi?
Do you really think Imran Khan can win from Larkana?

Posted 2 years ago on 13 Jun 2009 21:38 #