PKPolitics Discuss » Future of Pakistan

We Need a Chinese Style Revolution

(81 posts)
  1. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The revolutionary leader of China Chairman Mou strictly warned all the corrupt classes of China of dire consequences soon after the revolution. Most of the Chinese took his warning seriously; knowing his nature of strictness, but they were a lot who did not take his warning seriously and followed their same path of corruption and disorders.

    A newly constructed bridge collapsed soon after his warning. He ordered the congregation of all the concerned workers at a ground. When all the workers were congregated, they were dynamited from all four sides. They all were blown up dead.

    After that incident, no corruption or disorder was reported in such a large country like China. The Chinese became a disciplined and corruption free nation.

    We need a similar revolution to save Pakistan.

    Pakistan Zindabad! Pakistan Paindabad!

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 16:21 #
  2. shimatoree
    Member

    HF-

    Would you have liked to apply the same technique to the companions of the Prophet Zubair, Talha, Muawiyah and Abdur Rahamn bin Auf for their illegal riches or are they absolved of all their sins ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 17:42 #
  3. shafiq12
    member

    Shimtoree

    Respect the Sahaba (May Allah's peace and mercy be upon them), or All ur spiritual work will lost and u will be a in the list of losers in the day After

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 18:48 #
  4. let us decide what sorta revolution we want...some want Chinese revolution,some LAAL revolution,Some PEELI HUREE NEELI...

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 18:50 #
  5. RhyMe, that was pure wit! I couldn't stop laughing. Anyway, I'd say the colour of the thing is immaterial. What would count though is the kind of footware people have on.

    HF, most definitely Pakistan Zindabad!

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 19:32 #
  6. nomad_citizen
    Member

    @HF, by Chinese Style Revolution, do you mean Cheap, Fake, Unreliable and Short-lived?

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 20:21 #
  7. nomad_citizen, where exactly did you pick up your notions of what the Chinese Rev was and is? Ever been to China yourself or do you perhaps speak Mandarin?

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 20:35 #
  8. Md Akmal
    Member

    Dear Hussain Farooqu,

    @ Your ideas are praise worthy. I was in China for couple of months. Nice country, developed country.

    @ But you know, if you go to any Chinese village you will find only one nice decorated house which is visible from far distance. This belongs to the chief of the Communist Party. And what about others? They are staying in a colony with one charpoy. Even I have seen the family quaters. What they have nothing, only one by-cycle. Even the house does not have proper ventilation and no "Varenda"(Belcony). Well I visited back in 1988, it is almost 22 years. There might be some change little bit.

    @ Now,Chinese economy might be booming but it hardly matters to the common people. "o log kire mokore ki thara jete hai", they do not have any right. Their monthly salary is too less. Both husband and wife has to serve. But they have to serve in different places even 500 km away.

    @ It is true that in our society there are lot of corruption but how to stopped it that is a big question? The corruption is a part of our life. Accept it, it had been there and will remain. Your idea of "CHINESE REVOLUTION" is a good thinking but you know what in political term it is called "UTOPION IDEAS" .

    @ You know, in our country(Bangladesh) lately one General Moin U Ahmed being influened by General Musharraf tried his best for last two years but failed and now he has become a laughing stock. In those days, once corrupt businessmen/politician abandoned their luxury car(Mercedez & Others) here and their. General Moin said," we will collect and sell these cars and make a big hospital for the poor people", O ! what a idea ? His dream never materialised and in the process all the costly vicheles were inside all the police station for long 1.5 years in open sky and all were damaged.

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 21:15 #
  9. shimatoree
    Member

    SS

    Dishonesty is the ultimate Sin.

    The question was asked but no answer given.

    Answer the question .

    Posted 1 year ago on 20 Sep 2010 21:16 #
  10. shafiq12
    member

    Shimatoree.

    In Islam no one is exclusive of Justice. The system of Islam is only system which give u that Justice Not a system Like Chinese. Sahabas Ikram are like a guiding start. They are perfect in their society. Whenever any Sahaba tried to go away from Track other Sahaba Correct him for a lesson to the histoy.

    But ur hate for Sahabas (may Allah be pleased with them) is amazing). U after 1400 years put forward a statement against them ignoring the current people like Zardari and other.

    Would you have liked to apply the same technique to the companions of the Prophet Zubair, Talha, Muawiyah and Abdur Rahamn bin Auf for their illegal riches or are they absolved of all their sins ?

    Sahaba were good people that's why Allah gave them so much respect. now i did get ur point why u use the name of Sahaba in ur question

    The Prophet said: "Let none of you should come to me with anything (negative) about any of my Companions!" (Abu Dawud and al-Tirmidhi from Ibn Mas`ud) and "Fear Allah with regard to my Companions! Do not make them targets after me!" (al-Tirmidhi and Ahmad).

    Was-Salam.

    The Biggest Demerits of Chinese Revolution

    China was a planned economy under Mao Zedong’s leadership as he thoughts was mainly equality, where he established nationalization of China’s economy through the control of markets by keeping it free from foreign dominations, price, and production as well as natural and human resources. He also introduced the promotion of egalitarianism and collectivism with little incentives, while individuals’ needs are not being realized.

    Chinese system is based on Communism

    Demrits of Communish

    1. It provides no incentive to work hard, or at all, so the level of production on both an individual scale and a mass scale, goes into sharp decline.

    2, It is counter to human to the human psyche that a person can not improve their lot in life, and under communism, you can't.

    3. It prevents people from being able to reward excellent performers.

    4. It provides no incentive to innovate, because you can invent the greatest thing ever, and it won't improve your or your familie's life.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 1:50 #
  11. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    Chinese are still following a DEAD ideology of communism. The yehudi Karl Marx fooled the world for 70 years with his communist doctrine and could no longer fool the world and hence the yehudis that control Russia and West orchestrated the capitalist revolution of Yeltsin to finally bring the 2 evils of capitalism and communism under one flag.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 2:42 #
  12. shimatoree
    Member

    SS

    I did not praise the Chinese Revolution.

    My answer was in response to someone else's praise for the Chinese Revolution . But since the Praise was offered -my question is justified.

    I do not hate anyone but I am not an Idol worshipper- be they made of stone or of flesh and blood- be they recent or of by gone times. If someone did not do right they must be held accountable.

    I have already put my view on the use of Hadith for ulterior reasons so I need not say anymore.
    End of story.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 3:01 #
  13. shimatoree
    Member

    SS- With all the enumerated De-merits of the Chinese system-

    They are today the biggest and strongest economy in the world and still growing at a brisk rate.

    What have the Muslims done with their superior system even though they control 80 % of the world's energy resources ?

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 3:04 #
  14. I hope those talking Chinese-style revolution realize the cost was not just dynamiting workers of a bridge but a lot more: Mao's Great Leap Forward Killed 45 Million in Four Years

    So you ready for it? Nothing less will work (we'll probably need a higher ratio). I say let's take the 'great leap' ;-)

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 5:11 #
  15. shafiq12
    member

    I did not praise the Chinese Revolution.

    You didn't praise Chinese Revolution but u target Sahaba (May Allah's Peace be upon them). U support ur Question by Targeting Sahabas. Why? What did Sahaba Harm u. Did Targeting Sahaba Made ur question more meaningful or the question exposed u?

    They are today the biggest and strongest economy in the world and still growing at a brisk rate.

    There will be Great Fitnas before the Last Hour Comes? And these vast technology is test for the Ummah of Last Prophet and Please don't look today see what is base of this technology See the Past of Muslim. Islam is base of this Technology. We muslim are going down because we have left Quran's Guidance. We Left Allah and Allah Left Us

    That is enough?

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 6:29 #
  16. for Chinese style Revolution , leaders as well as nation has to take as much of pain as possible .
    are we ready for it ?

    or a Revolution took placed in Arab 1400 years ago .
    we can think of .

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 6:48 #
  17. rashidsaleem
    Member

    We are a democratic country not a communist country. Rather than following such horrific examples, we must strive to improve and evolve a democratic culture. If we walk on the right path, yes troubled times will face us but eventually we will make it work for the masses.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 8:02 #
  18. jasim
    Blocked

    Actually the responsibility of all this based on us. Simple we choose the govt by election, so who is responsible, every one knows we are the real responsible for all dat's.

    The Revolution is only Education

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 8:20 #
  19. I like this thread, each one doing his or her own thing. I have just one question to add after reading through all the propaganda stuff about the evils of communism, Russia and China (thank God, Cuba was left out of the discussion)! Everyone suddenly turns out to be a specialist of communism. More power to you, friends, more power.

    But why never anything similar on that most monstrous of econ systems ever devised in my eyes: capitalism which lives by thieving and starving the rest of the globe on behalf of some 10% of the world's population, callous and illiterate, but all behaving like demigods. Bias perhaps?

    And yes, see how nicely the Great Leap of Capitalism has been taken, killing a few more millions of people very much like ourselves.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 9:08 #
  20. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    shimtore

    You probably have read the history which was narrated by some deviant sects, otherwise, you would not be insolent against the great personalities. If you believe in Prophet SAW, then your belief should be perfect on Sahabas as well.

    Abdul Rehman

    We are Muslims and naturally we don't have to deviate from our ideology. Staying in the frames of our ideology, we have to bring a revolution for revamping our society.

    rashidsaleem

    Democracy can't be established without abolishing feudal system. The existing feudal system can't be abolished by a democratic govt. since the majority of elected representatives themselves come from the same class.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 10:48 #
  21. Truthlover
    Member

    Corruption is like an infection, when entered into national body it cause pain and imbalances. The symptoms are indicated in shape of fever and other ills. A doctor prescribes the medicine and thereby cure the disease but if the infection spreads in brain and other vital parts of the body, the death is the only cure.
    Pakistan suffers from this extreme case, where the whole national body is exposed to cancer cells. The country is beyond medication and the only hope is a surgery, a complete cleansing, if it's to survive.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 10:58 #
  22. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Truthlover

    Your views are agreeable.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 11:04 #
  23. ammarisb
    Member

    The obsession with revolution is based on false romanticism; revolutions are bloody and often more disastrous. The best course is strengthening democracy and keeps faith in evolution.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 11:14 #
  24. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    ammarisb

    Naturally, revolution is a costly matter, but do you think that our society can be changed through an evolutionary process? If yes, then please express your views.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 11:20 #
  25. Md Akmal
    Member

    This article is for those which still believe that through islamic jehad they will implement the "Sharia Law" in their country and slowly in the whole Islamic World".

    @ Well the idea is good ! I am also a Muslim. I also sometimes dreams of such Islamic Khilafhat like those of Umayyat and Abbassit Dynesty and later on by the Ottoman Empires.

    @ Once Islamic revulation took place in Iran sometime in 1979 I was amazed. Then we saw muslim mass uprising in Kashmir. Soon muslim brotherhood was from Magreb to South Asia, then to Central Asia and it went even to Indonesia,Thailand and Phillipine. Muslims in Algeria even took maximum seats in municipal election.Military coup took place at Sudan by General Bashir. Six new muslim states came up at the heart of Russia. But then what ....

    @ Now-a-days we neither can bring Islamic revolution nor we can come to power by election. Those days are gone(O din geye). We cannot conquer the world seating on the back of "Khota" with "Nanga talwar" or with Ak-47. We need a save santuary or save heaven. Where is that? We have to develop and acquire the selected technology secretly by one by one Islamic countries and in one oppurtune moment we can revolt. But isolately we cannot do any thing. Even you brought together one crore people and shout at the top of the voice"Narai tagbir Allah - o-Akbar". Does it matter at all.....to the western people. They have acquired and in a possession of all lastest technology. What we have nothing. Only " Mashallah, inshallah and Alhamdullah". Please do not take negatively.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 11:22 #
  26. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Md Akmal

    Naturally, we can't do anything similar to that of Mullah Umer or Saddam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 12:13 #
  27. Md Akmal
    Member

    The politic of Afghan is closely related with the politic of Pakistan. What we see in Pakistan now, bombing in almost all big cities, clash between Shia-Sunni, riot between Ahmedia and other Islamic groups. Along the border middile attack, drone attack and sometime even infiltration of NATO allies forces. Situation is not likely to stop.It may even continue for some more time. Now this has created lot of doubts among the minds of many people like Hussain Farooqui and he quickly endeavour to solve these problems with Chinese style revolution. Some are arguing for Islamic Jehad. Some has brought the hadis, some has brought the system of "Khilafit-e-Rashadin".

    @ As a Muslim country we need a strong united Pakistan for this sub-continent. Pakistan is also needed for the Central Asia as well for the Middle East.

    @ Now how to achieve that ? It is a big question. According to my judgement in this situation Pakistan should be politically united under one banner. May be under PPP or may be under ML(N). Pakistan should stricly follow the democatic system.What I guise some portion of Pakistan population mainly pathans are supporting the Taleban and along with them some other religeous people. If this time military takes over power then Pakistan is no where. Military cannot solve this problem.

    @ In the long run I think NATO and their allies will leave Afghan like the way American left Vietnam. Then the burden will come to Pakistan. There are lot of evidences that Talebans are being supplied by India and Russia. India will always want that this war to continue. On the other hand Russia wants to take revenge against America and other Western world. It has become a play ground for all at the expence of Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 20:00 #
  28. shimatoree
    Member

    MdAkmal-

    quote from you-

    " What we have nothing. Only " Mashallah, inshallah and Alhamdullah".
    And we can't even say that in our own languages. We have to say it in a foriegn language as thought God only understands Arabic !

    Well , you have hit the target right smack in the center. Well done.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 22:42 #
  29. Abdul Rahman
    Member

    ST, Your tribal nationalism is on the rise as the day goes by. Why don't you open a forum in "your" language. I'm sure lot of nationalists will patronize that. Your bread and butter is built on a foreign language that you learnt as a slave- English and you have nerve to blame Arabic the language of Jannah. There are specific Ayats in Quran to people who talk excatly like you.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 23:11 #
  30. shimatoree
    Member

    AR

    If the shoe fits - WEAR it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 21 Sep 2010 23:50 #
  31. shirazi
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui

    "After that incident, no corruption or disorder was reported in such a large country like China. The Chinese became a disciplined and corruption free nation."

    Are you kidding me? Is this a movie script or what. I work with tons of Chinese. They are so sick of corruption and mismanagement in mainland. I don't know what China are you referring to? Print and electronic media is full of corruption stories in China. Developed world is full of Chinese substandard products and developing world is flushed with even worse. Please ask some one from China what are the levels of corruption in public sector in China.

    I am shocked by your rosy picture, one explosion eradicated corruption. You can do better than writing these fictions.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 0:21 #
  32. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    Dear Shirazi

    There is no country in the world which is 100% corruption free. A corruption free or crime free country means the levels of corruption and crimes are the at the least level. Corruption courts and Criminal courts are existent everywhere with hundreds of cases registered. Even in a country like Japan, there are cases of corruption and crimes. China is about three times larger than the USA, but the crime rate is just 5% of the USA.

    i also deal with the Chinese companies. They offer you quality in proportion to the price you pay. They have variable qualities with variable prices. They are standing as the 4 th largest economy now.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 9:26 #
  33. shirazi
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui

    <strong style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">
    "There is no country in the world which is 100% corruption free"
    <strong style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; ">
    That's more closer to reality. To begin with I am not very impressed with Chinese model. I admire social side of it - state sharing economic burden of masses. But socialist cum capitalist China is not a good role model. I understand people like Habib Galib and Faiz looked up to that but then China was complete socialist society. After Russian fall out they have opened up to capitalism like many European nations accepted socialistic philosophies. All western Europe states offer much better social benefits than China w/o crushing human rights and civil liberties. I 'd like to follow their peaceful model like Malaysia instead of red Chinese revolution. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:28 #
  34. shirazi
    Member

    @Hussain Farooqui

    "There is no country in the world which is 100% corruption free"

    That's more closer to reality. To begin with I am not very impressed with Chinese model. I admire social side of it - state sharing economic burden of masses. But present socialist/capitalist China is not a good role model. I understand people like Habib Galib and Faiz looked up to that but then China was complete socialist society. After Russian fall out they have opened up to capitalism like many European nations accepted socialistic philosophies. All western Europe states offer much better social benefits than China w/o crushing human rights and civil liberties. I 'd like to follow their peaceful evolution model like Malaysia is following  instead of red Chinese revolution. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:29 #
  35. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    shirazi

    In case of Malaysia, their national hero Tunku Abdur Rehman made a very wise decision in the early period of independence by reforming the British left bureaucracy. He dominated the bureaucracy of the princely states over the British left bureaucracy. The bureaucracy of the princely states had a mindset of serving the public whereas the colonial bureaucracy had the mindset of ruling over the public. That was how Malaysia became a civilized and disciplined state.

    The society of China was extremely corrupt and undisciplined. Chairman Mao and his colleagues had no choice except to be very strict. They revamped the whole society of China. .

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:44 #
  36. Come on HF. You've defended China very well so far. But still one objection needs to be formulated. China is econ power number one worldwide. Nothing about second, third and fourth, please. Number one, basta. And on and on it will go for much of the time ahead.
     
    All those who criticise China here seem to be moon-dwellers, i.e. propaganda guided.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 12:58 #
  37. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    MG

    China is presently holding 4 US trillion dollars which can be liquidated any movement of appropriate time to nail the coffin of the US economy. America is gradually falling into the trap of the Chinese economy.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:05 #
  38. Absolutely right, HF. China holds the economic fate of US/West in its hand, and we know it will act with care and caution. Thank God, too, that it's a close ally to Pakistan.  

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:43 #
  39. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    MG

    We are in a confused state of chaos. China has offered full support to Pakistan in all its affairs including that of Baluchistan. We need to get rid of the Americans to save our country from further disasters. 

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:49 #
  40. shimatoree
    Member

    To all those worshippers of the New Chinese economic god-     Please keep in mind that if you remove the American Market from the Chinese economy- what happens ?     Technolgically , the Great power China CANNOT built it's own jet engines- so where does it put them.      They do hold some of the debt securities but so do the Germans, the British, Saudis, Kuwaitis and others not the least the Russians.       Plus the Americans do carry the biggest stick.Their Naval battle groups can project any placee anytime meaning that they have 5 independently operational naval battle stations with their own air forces.Unlike those that are here gloating on the imagined demise of the Great Satan- the Chinese know all of that and they a bit smarter than the nay sayers. And the Chinese Revoltuion- well Mao decided to de-capitate the corrupt and running dogs" of the imperialists and killed 20 million chinese just like that. And guess what. After all of that the whole country has become the running dog of the West.   So wake up. Smell the coffee and face facts- PLEASE. And who in Pakistan has the guts to cut off 20 million heads anyway!     Get real

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 13:51 #
  41. @HF
    "America is gradually falling into the trap of the Chinese economy."

    Is is that or the other way around ("i.e. "China has gradually fallen into the trap of the American economy/capitalism")?.Are they not left holding the bag with some $2 trillion in reserves that are losing value and China having no choice but to keep adding to them as US can only buy with more deficit financing, further weakening the dollar (and devaluing the reserves China holds)? Certainly shimatoree's question ("Please keep in mind that if you remove the American Market from the Chinese economy- what happens ?") is a very valid and important one. Sure China owns the mortgages of most American homes but can it go and foreclose on them?

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 14:15 #
  42. Come on, the two of you, now you're ganging up on us over China in the name of something you called smelling the coffee. Smell the coffee yourself, shimatoree. The west is done for. Without the US market, China will do just fine. And absolute nonsense that China can't build jets. The usual west complex (and I thought the two of you were anti-west. Well, ha! to that). I knew all along I was the only one of my kind here. US has no technological advance on anyone at all. If anything, it's lagging behind. China is just as good as them. And Russia is even better. In fact the best in all things technological. As for what China intends to do with its trillions, you have no idea about that either, apparently. Ever heard of the Panarin predictions? That is most definitely coming to pass. And Shimatoree, in historical time, not necessarily time as measured out in an individual's  life.    

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 14:33 #
  43. @MG
    "US has no technological advance on anyone at all. If anything, it's
    lagging behind. China is just as good as them. And Russia is even
    better."

    Oh, come on! You really don't believe that, do you?  I remember @shimatoree mentioning this fact:

    China, which has not found a Western supplier, has decided to buy Russian engines for its FC-1/JF-17 Xiaolong multirole fighter plane, a rival  of Russia's MiG-29 in developing countries.In late December 2009, Russian state arms exporter Rosoboronexport signed a contract with China to deliver 43 RD-93 engines, a modification of the RD-33 engines mounted on the MiG-29 planes.

    Why do you suppose that is?

    P.S. Sure US is in deep doo-doo but that does not mean it will crumble like
    the twin-towers, collapsing on it's own footprint leaving everyone else
    unscathed.
    :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 15:35 #
  44. shimatoree
    Member

    MG

     of all the people who comment on this blog- you are the last person that I expected NOT to look at the facts as they ARE.
    But Mirza Ghalin AKA Allama Iqbal does disappoint me. And I feel bad that another one of my IKON has come crumbling down!

    Now to set the record straight-

    I am not and have never been a supporter of the West- BUT I am a realist and must face up to what is staring me in the face. I recognize my enemy and also recognize and accept the strength of my enemy. It is only then that I may plan and do what it might take to defeat my enemy.

    I do not smoke something and bury my head in sand and dream that MAGIC will make the Devil disappear. That is the tragedy of the Muslims. If someone tells them the Truth-m they refuse to believe it and go on imagining to be the CHOSEN people of Allah-( a borrowed concept from the despised Jews for that).
    Jalal Ud Din Khawazam Shah will testify to that from his grave. He warned the so-called Caliph in Baghdad about the Mongols- they refused to believ the facts so they did not and could not prepare for the Mongol on slaught and the result was Hulagu Khan.
    And all of that while the mUllahs were reciting the verses of the Quran pleading with Allah to save them.

    One would have hoped that lessons would be learned but no- we are still controlled and stifled by the same Magic peddlers called Mullahs.

    Now as to the capabilities of the Chinese.
    The much ballyhood JF-17 built by the Chinese- they had to get the Russians to provide their second rate , Klimov-RD 93 engine because the Chinese could not even built an engine powerful enough for this second rate airplane.

    My point is simple. Be HONEST for a change.
    STOP hoping and WISHING and then convince yourself that that is reality.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 15:39 #
  45. Shimatoree, sorry about ikons tumbling and so forth, but be a bit of a realist yourself. I'm no expert on all this machinery stuff. But I've heard only good of the JF-17, for one thing. For another, we know that Boeing's latest model, I forget the number, is an utter flop. Ditto, about some of their fighter jets, the humvee and various others. I don't get my info on the west from Muslim sources, but straight from the horse's mouth: the west dissidents themselves. We're back to 9/11 here. But that one  was sorted:  each to his own. And now you take on China as well in the name of all earthly things the US! I don't know how well you know China, shimatoree, but it's the greatest of countries. I like the way you defend Iran. But about China you seem to diverge from reality. And about Russia's highest technology standards as well. One more thing, both the Russian and Chinese economies are doing well. The West economies are all down in the dumps and this is an irreversible trend. So tomorrow's world is not theirs at all. These are the last days of their supremacy and it may yet to lead to a nuclear war, which both China, Russia and Pakistan (to name only a few) are doing their best to stave off. That explains some of their present behaviour. And then, shimatoree, what has all this got to do with being a Muslim or not being a Muslim? Or mullahs? Do they know anything about aeronautics or the economy? Don't get obsessed by the Muslim element in every discussion.  I'm as honest as I can be, given the information at my disposal at any given time. I err often enough. And sometimes I get it right as well. I'm lucky in that I have visionaries enough to turn to when I really no longer know  what to think. Some on this blog even.  Time will tell who's seen the light, who hasn't. But it's not a competition in  any way.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 16:15 #
  46. But Dear nota, it will, it will, crumble I mean. and good riddance.

     Read the Panarin Predictions. Everything I can see points that way as well.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 16:19 #
  47. shimatoree
    Member

    MG-
          It is  Boeing B787 and it is not a flop. Stop dreaming.

         Their fighters are not flops either.

     

    Of course you have only heard good things about JF-17. What do you expect ?

    But from you I expect a bit of critical eaxmination of stuff that is given to you or gotten by you. I do not expect this from those that are still waitin for Mana and Salva to fall from the sky.  Am I wrong.
    Why am I mad and angry and bitter ?
    Well how would you be if you were concious of having wasted 1400 years and still being fed the same crap.

    In this race of nations- we are worse than last. We are not even aware of the race. We are fooling ourselves about this great assett we have of being the Chosen people of Allah.
    Just do not forget what happened to the last chosen people of God in Germany !

    Get up. stand erect and do something about your condition . It is of no importance what the West does or does not.
    We are in this mess because of who we are and how e are today.Only we can get out of this mess.
    Now get up and be counted amongst those that are serious.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 16:37 #
  48. toamin
    member

    chinese style revolution?


    No.

    Prophet Muhammad PBUH style revolution only!

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 16:54 #
  49. Shimatoree, I really don't understand what we're quarrelling about. You have read/heard that the JF/17 is a flop, I have read/heard the Boeing B787 (thanks for number) is a flop and now we are supposed to be at each other's throats as to who has the more reliable sources?

    I'll tell you why you are mad, angry and bitter, shimatoree. You play the cool intellectual at times. But actually you are a very emotional person. And so much the better.

    But is it true that we've wasted 1400 years of our existence. If that were so, how then to explain that in this year of 2010 we've become the biggest religious group to span the world? Somehow the two things do not seem to go hand in hand. If we are worse than last in the race of nations, then we'll improve as time goes by. We are mainly victims of our long encounter with colonialism and neocolonialism is the way I see it. I don't know about the Chosen People of Allah. I have never in my entire life felt Chosen the way the Jews seem to believe they are. Neither has anyone else I've ever come across. And if you wish to carry on with the analogy, then point out the tremendous difference between the two Chosen groups as well. One is an exclusive club, no membership for anyone else, the other is open to all comers.
     
    I quite agree with your call to action. Stand up and do something for your country. If all we do is talk, nothing is going to change. Hence, my full belief in the revolution and my absolute intention of taking part in it. And when I promise, I try to the hilt to keep it.

    We are definitely masters of our own destiny. The only problem is we've handed over that destiny of ours into western hands. Hence the importance of the stupid west. I look around me and practically everyone I see, hear or read is so west-brainwashed, there seems no way out of that particular trap. That is why I feel so close to the real people of Pakistan. They've never even heard the name of the west. They will save this country. Not the venal elite.  

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 17:30 #
  50. shimatoree
    Member

    Mg-

               I will answer your questions but first this-

    Your attempt at evaluating my psyche and my personality is noted.
    It might be best if you did not do that since your are neither a psychiatrist nor a physician.

    Now to the rest-

    1. I did not say JF-17 is a flop. I mentioned that in response to your adulation of the Chinese miracle that they can't even manyfacture an engine for that themselves.

    2. B 787 built by Boeing is not a flop. You should not say that if you do not how airplanes are built and about their structural engineering.I do and therefore you would be well advised to refrain from regurgitating comments made by people who might have an axe to grind.

    3. Wasted 1400 years can only be seen as that if you recognise where you were 1300 years ago and where you are today.
    Just because you are able to convince fools into believing in something means nothing in the bigger scheme of things.
    There a lot of sheep in this world and they want to say Ba Ba black sheep on demand.
    Just look at the Wahabi explosion in Pakistan. Money and **** sells esp to those that are poor and destitute and have no place to go.
    The Qadianis also claim the same logic that their numbers are inreasing.
    That sir, is no reason to gloat and start celebrating. A million sheep are still sheep.

    4. The issue of chosen people.
    Lots of people here keep harping on the fact that the Muslims are going to inherit the earth because it says so in some prophesies.
    My advise is just look at your condition. You can't even take care of your own people. You go begging at the world while your leaders steal and rob the country. You do not stand up and kill all those leaders but vote them into office again and again.
    And yet you say that God is on your side.
    God is not on your side and has not been on your side since the death of Umar.
    The ref: to the Jews was made in a polemic way just to get the point across.

    Revolutions are brought about by honest men and women.
    On this blog I have found a very few. And yes I am bitter and whuy should I not be when I see the great potential of a nation being wasted by the peddlers and con men.
    Just look at this blog where names like salam, umer, nnl, haris khan and others.

    Just look at these people and  read what they say.

    If that gives you a sign of hope then I would say we are doomed.

     

    I would ask you to be a little courageous and let the real honest Mirza Ghalib come out and  speak his mind and let the chips fall where they may.

    Think of Imam Hussein and Mansoor Hussain Hallaj and derive inspiration from them.

    Think of Giordano Bruno and what he was thinking when they were taking to burn him alive.

    Emotions are only the after burners. The engine is the intellect and the courage to stand up for the truth. I am not an emotional person at all but the persuit of truth makes me a rocket.

    Then if you are honest with your self- you will see the reason why Pakistan is in dire conditions and will remain so.

    Sometimes ago if you would recall - I had said to you -

    from now on I shall show no mercy to the dishonest and I am and will keep my word- of that you can be sure of.

    Posted 1 year ago on 22 Sep 2010 18:06 #

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