Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
1) What is 'fundamentalist' ?
2) What does it mean to be a 'fundamentalist' ?
3) How does it relate to Islam ?
4) How does it relate to Pakistan ?
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
What is 'fundamentalist' ? What does it mean to be a 'fundamentalist' ?
(61 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:54 #
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khurram Zaman
MemberIf oyu are not,Adha teethar adha batair muslim than you are fundamentalist,shiddat Pasand,rigid,hard liner muslim..
If you would not like to be called fundamentalist by liberal facist than you should be like this,
YE MUSALMA HAIN JINHAIN DEKH K SHARMAYE YAHOOD.
Regards,
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:58 # -
chechen
MemberQ. It has become common in some of the media to accuse the youth of the Islamic revival of being extremists and fundamentalists. What is your opinion of this?
A. Whatever the case, this is a mistake that has come from the east and the west, from the Christians, communists and Jews, and others who try to put people off the call to Allaah and its supporters, and who want to be unfair to the da’wah by calling it extremism or fundamentalism or whatever other names they give it.
Undoubtedly calling people to Allaah is the religion of the Messengers, it is their path and their way. The people of knowledge are obliged to call others to Allaah and to be active in doing so. The youth are obliged to fear Allaah and to adhere to the truth, not to go to extremes or be harsh. It may so happen that some of the youth are ignorant, so they go to extremes in some matters, or they are lacking in knowledge, so they are negligent in some other matters. But all the youth and others, such as the scholars, must fear Allaah and seek the truth with evidence (daleel), i.e., what Allaah and His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said; they must beware of bid’ah (reprehensible innovations) and exaggeration. They must also beware of ignorance and shortcomings. No one among them is infallible, and some of the people may err by doing too much or by falling short. But that does not mean that everyone is at fault; the fault rests with those who make the mistake.
But the enemies of Allaah among the Christians and others who are following in their wake have made this a means of attacking the da’wah and putting an end to it, by accusing its people of being extremists and fundamentalists.
What does “fundamentalism” mean?
If they are fundamentalists in the sense that they adhere to the fundamentals or basic principles (usool), to what Allaah and His Messenger said, then this is praise, not condemnation. Adhering to the fundamentals, the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), is commendable and cannot be condemned. What is to be condemned is when people overdo things or fall short, when they go to extremes or are harsh or do not do what they have to do – this is what is to be condemned. But the person who adheres to the right principles, derived from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), is not at fault; this is perfect and is to be praised. This is what is obligatory upon seekers of knowledge and those who call others to Allaah: they should adhere to the fundamentals from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and whatever they know of the basic principles of fiqh, ‘aqeedah and hadeeth, whatever can be used as evidence (daleel). They have to have basic principles which they follow. Describing the daayi’ahs as fundamentalists is a general word which does not mean anything apart from condemning them and putting people off. Fundamentalism is not a bad thing, in fact it is something good.
If the seeker of knowledge adheres to the fundamentals, paying attention to them and staying up at night to study them from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and what the scholars have stated, there is nothing wrong with that. But going to extremes in following bid’ah is what is wrong, and going to extremes of ignorance and falling short is also wrong.
The daa’iyahs are obliged to adhere to the fundamentals of sharee’ah and adhere to the middle course to which Allaah has guided them, for Allaah has made them an ummah justly balanced (cf. Al-Baqarah 2:143). So the daa’iyahs have to be justly balanced, treading a middle course between exaggeration and negligence. They have to be steadfast in adhering to the truth, and to adhere to it on the basis of shar’i evidence (daleel). There should be neither exaggeration nor negligence, but the moderation that Allaah has enjoined.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 16:59 # -
1-explained in No.2
2-One who follows the 'fundamentals' (pivitol basics-assas)
3-A label given to a Muslim who not only looks like one but
is a firm believer and strict follower of the Islamic teachings.
4-Pakistan was created based on a two nation theory. Separate homelands for Hindus as Hindustan and Pakistan for Muslims.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:01 # -
zjshami
MemberI was sitting in my bedroom after performing prayers of Zohar and finishing the recitation from the Holy Quran.
Holding the cup of coffee in my hand I turned on my Television/DVD to relax with Raga Darbari from my favorite Mohammad Rafi, where he was singing 'O dunnya ke rakhwale, suun dard bhare mere naale'.
Suddenly my neighbor knocked at the door and shouted to stop the 'un-Islamic' music otherwise he would kick my TV/VCR out of the house.
Now I understand he was a FUNDAMENTALIST.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:08 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberBut i can tell you that such behaviours cannot be find at one time in any muslim..
Music and quran recitation.
If some one can prove that i use sweet and sour at one time???If to understand the difference through a story than it's allright..
sory but my last post as further will cause the thread detracked...
thanx
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:16 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@zjshami: lol @ your colourful but also 'biased' thinking about this.
By 'fundamentalist', I take a person who believes in 'fundamentals' of something.
When we relate it to Islam, that means someone who adheres to Islam's basic principles.
What is wrong in that?!?!!!!
How does mean that a person is bad if he/she is adhering to Islam's basic principles?
NO! you don't have the correct understanding of this term.
I can summarize this incident with a simple fact -> If you have a high volume, of-course you were disturbing your neighbor. In such a case, he/she is right in doing what they did, since you were 'violating' their 'peace of mind'.
This situation could have been easily mitigated with simple solutions, for example, by adding a headphone or lowering the volume so others don't! get disturbed by YOU
P.S. Let me also add here, that .. a Muslim obeys Islam. Islam doesn't obey a Muslim. There's a subtle difference. If you think Islam should obey your whims .. that is not possible.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:17 # -
chechen
MemberSister Shami,
No, he was not. I hate to use that terminology. We should referain from using that. He was not following the Sunnah of Prophet SAS. He was supposed to explain to you why it is unislamic.
I will attempt to explain to you why it is unislamic. All songs and music that takes you away from God Almighty is haraam. That man Rafi became millionaire singing songs for the rotten Bollywood movies. Almost all songs are devoid of any substance. They encourage shirk and idol worship. These singers and actors are moden day idols that distract people from true worship of trhe Creator. Even if some wordings are sentimental and relate to God, the theme is outright unislamic. There is more harm than good just like alcohol.
The ayaat of the Qur’aan and the Ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) indicate that musical instruments are condemned, and warn us against them. The Qur’aan teaches that playing these instruments is one of the things that leads people astray and constitutes mockery of the Signs of Allaah. Allaah says :
“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talk to mislead (men) from the Path of Allaah, without knowledge, and takes it (the Path of Allaah, the Verses of the Qur’aan) by way of mockery. For such there will be a humiliating torment (in the Hell-fire).” [Luqmaan 31:6]
Most of the scholars interpreted lahw al-hadeeth (“idle talk”) as meaning singing and musical instruments, and every voice that diverts people from the truth.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:23 # -
@zjshami
No offense but think from this angle too.
Owners that have a habit of listening 'music of choice' loud enough to grossly effect their surroundings, (here a neighbor is a concern) should expect a somewhat similar response. The question is that this neighbor, if real, should have gone a step further and probably sued you on secular grounds in a secular country, of imposing your choice on others ignoring completely the fact that where your home boundaries end boundaries of your neighbor does begin!Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:25 # -
chechen
MemberThis is what Allama said abou movies when they started in 1930's. Such prophetic words. Indeed they are so much applicable even to this day.
Wo mazhab tha iqwaan e Ahde Kahan ka
ye tahzeeb e hazar ki saudagiri hai
wo duniyah ki matti ye dozaq ki maati
wo butkhana khaki ye khakistari haiI am not expert in Urdu but this is how I interpreted. I am not sure about the other lines. Can someone eloborate the translation.
Allama was saying that the idols were made of "duniya ki matti" during the timme of Prophet Ibrahim SAS as evident by his destruction of idols that belonged to his father. Allama then says "dozaq ki matti" refering to the modern day movies/film that run on electricity ie fire. SubhanAllah.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:33 # -
The label 'fundamentalist' is a gross misuse of the term and a proof of utter hypocrisy a non believer holds against a believer (Muslim).
Muslims however may draw a positive outcome even from this biased negativity and feel proud to be called 'one who believes in the very fundamentals of Islam'!Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:35 # -
1. A fundamentalist is a person of any religion who adopts old-fashioned theological, political, and social views.
2. To a fundamentalist it means that he/she should use all his/her energies to pursue others to adopt the same old-fashioned theological, political, and social views that he/she believes in.
3. It relates to all the religions likewise.
4. It does not relate to any specific country but to the masses of that country.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:39 # -
zjshami
MemberPlease don't hurt my feelings by criticizing Mohammad Rafi, whom I take one of the most pious person in the field of Entertainment. I take him as Wali Allah.
He was not a preacher but an artist.
Please read his biography before issuing a Fatwas against him.
How religious, simple and pious he was, I guess you don't know.
Your support and explanation is provoking more hatred for Fundamemtalism.
Your are painting a very horrible picture of Fundamentalism.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:40 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberIf some one calls you liberal than you should be worried abt your Islam and if some one call you fundamentalist than Do Shukar for your Islam...
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:41 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberActually they dont know abt Quran feelings when an extra ordinary voice is reciting Quran....
when ppl get mixed with divine orders and feeelings...
shami that was the nahoosat of ur music you get hurt by ur neibour and now hurted abt rafi......
Nahoosat nahoosat.......nothing else...thanx..
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:47 # -
zjshami
MemberAll of the Galaxies are based upon a musical harmony and Rhythmic timings fixed and created by God.
If Music is Nahoosat then we all are living under Nahoosat.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 17:58 # -
Correction pls. Not all! Anyway we were talking about a 'fundamentalist'.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:02 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@bebus: old-fashioned? What's that?
1) Do you believe, ALLAH ALMIGHTY creates man in a different way than HE did 1400 years ago? or millions of years ago?
2) Do you believe, ALLAH ALMIGHTY creates man with different 'needs' than HE did 1400 years ago? or millions of years ago? I'm talking about 'basic' needs of life.
3) Do you believe, ALLAH ALMIGHTY has changed the LAWs HE prescribed 1400 years ago?
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:05 # -
rafi
MemberFirst of all Fundamentalism is not an Islamic/Muslim specific terminology. A person from any religion may be labeled as a fundamentalist. Now, an interesting question i.e. what is Fundamentalism? According to my limited observation fundamentalism is psychological condition/disorder; a person in this condition tend to think inside the box. S/he lives in the world of fantasy with a mindset that anybody who doesn’t live in his/her world is imperfect or lesser human being than him/her. Extreme symptom of Fundamentalism (as the condition Deteriorate) is called Bigotry. Fundamentalism ignites extremism, and extremism swing both ways; i.e. liberal or religious.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:06 # -
zjshami
MemberDear Moderator,
Thank God. At least I don't need anything more to learn.
After reading a few of the above postings, is there any need to further discuss anything to understand Fundamentalism?
However the debate should be continued.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:09 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@zjshami: To my feeble intellect, my feeble knowledge Islam rejects 'music' for multiple rational reasons;
1) it is a waste of time. It promotes laziness, wastage of time
2) It promotes or breeds violence, for a multitude of reasons
etc etc
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:10 # -
khurram Zaman
Member[According to my limited observation fundamentalism is psychological condition/disorder; a person in this condition tend to think inside the box....]
Rafi,
pls mention that a person with such condition,from where he takes all these conditions to live with in a pre-set inbox...
I mean the sourse of inspiration.....pls shed some light..Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:11 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberRafi,
[A person from any religion may be labeled as a fundamentalist.]thanx for the clarification abt religion as religion is the target,the only target...
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:17 # -
rafi
MemberDear Khurram
I am sure you are an intelligent and bright person. Think without emotion, look around and use you intellect. You will get your answer.Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:17 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberRafi,
{a person in this condition tend to think inside the box]thanx again you mentioned [religious inbox].......
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:18 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberRafi,
I am feeling the right what claim is their,abt living inbox..
If you don't have such positive and best feelings than i will invite you to come and be in my Inbox.....:)Have you any experience of some thing positive by some one in-tangible, abt feelings,positive feelings only......
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:23 # -
zjshami
MemberFor those who are seriously looking for understanding the Term Fundamentalism:
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:33 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberQuran insisting us to be fundamentalists,to claim as muslims.
Quran is our wiki no other wiki would satisfy us...:)Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:40 # -
chechen
MemberPlease not the "wiki". One learned member NNL has referred to it as from a Zionist source.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:44 # -
khurram Zaman
MemberThe following link would be much usefull in understanding fundamentalism.....
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 18:45 # -
@khurram zaman
Every religion insist its followers to be fundamentalists.
Holy book of every religion is their wiki, no other book will satisfy them.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 19:41 # -
zia m
MemberThe debate on orthodoxy or fundamentalism has been going on for centuries amongst Muslims.
Mutazilites believed in reason and ijtehad where as Asharite laid the foundation of fundamentalism.http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/History_of_Islam/The_Mutazilites-Asharites_debate
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 20:08 # -
bebus..
becarefull....when you disclose personal info .....they will harm your family if they cannot get to you!
Mulla!
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 20:15 # -
Now what type of question is this? He is a Pakistani and that should be enough. What has Sialkot to do with this debate? Khurram can you educate about this pls.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 20:27 # -
@semirza
Very true Mirza Sahib
Regards.
Posted 2 years ago on 09 Sep 2009 22:56 # -
shahzad1924
memberalthough your question has already been answered, i would like to mention one thing here;
it is not permissible for us Muslims to use such terms as "fundamentalism" because the Quran said don't say "raina" say "unzurna". and the reason was that although the word "raina" wasn't a bad word but the non-Muslims attached a bad connotation to it. so, its not allowed for us to use such terms, which we might think is a good word but in reality there is an agenda of the west behind it.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 0:24 # -
every term has its own meaning.when it has been coined .
and very few remained unchanged with the passage of time.
otherwise ,time to time,generation to generation ,subject to subject ,culture to culture and ppl to ppl it keep changing its meaning and hence lost the original one.same has happened to Fundamentalist term.
it was a term for Christians .
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reac_ter9.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Christianitynow christans and jews are using in a ridiculing manner to humiliate Muslims .
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 6:06 # -
quaidkamazaar
Memberladies and gents,
the great Dr. Zakir Naik has given some beautiful speeches on "fundamentalism". im sure the intellectuals here have seen it already.
Its never wrong to be a Muslim fundamentalist, in fact its good to follow fundamentals of Islam.
but the problem comes when people twist basic fundamentals of Islam like Taliban making killing innocent students and "okay" act of sawaab.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 6:11 # -
@quaidkamazaar
Exactly, and one should be proud of being labeled as 'the one who is following the fundamentals of Islam.Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 6:33 # -
amin1924
memberActually these terms such as fundamentalist/extremist etc are created in negative sense to show the world inflexible attitude of those on whom these labels are applied plus to show that these people do not compromise.
So any nation/people not willing to show flexibility on their belief or compromise their belief are termed in these kinds of labels.
But when it comes to their interest they invent terms such anti-semitic (whatever that means) to force people in believing in their cause and who ever denies their believes (such as holocaust) they are demonized.
These are just tools of these massive propaganda machines, but unfortunately naive Muslims fall in to these traps and start giving justifications or explainations to avoid these labels.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 8:26 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
I am a Muslim. When I look at the world today, I thank ALLAH ALMIGHTY. I am proud, I am happy! to be a Muslim.
I do NOT! submit to western propaganda against Islam. I detest it. I reject it. I fight it.
With each passing day, I get more and more convinced about Islam's being a blessing, Islam being kind to humanity. With each passing day, I find ALL other systems of governance to be worse! than anyone can imagine.
I am happy to be a Muslim. I am happy to be a 'Muslim fundamentalist'. I believe in, cling to, practice, and like Islam's fundamentals.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 9:42 # -
zjshami
MemberWhere a majority of Doctors start killing the patients,
where a majority of Politicians turn out to be corrupt,
where a majority of Hajis start black marketing,
where a majority of Fundamentalists start destroying the girls schools and perform Non-fundamental activities,
THEN,
the reputation and respect for a Doctor, Politician, Haji, Fundamentalist would be jeopardized.Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 11:31 # -
You are very right "zjshami". Everyone build his/her reputation by their deeds not the hollow words.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 11:42 # -
amin1924
memberzjshami,
Your statements are over exaggerated... so add another line to your post
Where a majority of english literate start to exaggerate statements.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 12:01 # -
zjshami
MemberIt is not a statement but a query.
Any one who violates the basic characteristics of the status, he/she is holding, would be liable to be condemned.
During Ayub Khan's Martial Law, more than 70 shopkeepers at the Akbari Mandi Lahore were arrested on the charges of black marketing, adulteration and hoarding.
By chance all of those were Hajis, who eventually brought a bad name to the Status of a Haji.Where gold rusts, what iron will do.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 13:03 # -
amin1924
memberzjshami
I have no match to your witness of incidents happened in 50s, 60s, or 70s but I am impressed to see a female with computer skills having such senior age.
I highlighted exactly same situation in another thread where I said that in one case people call it "few bad apples" while in another case they demonize the community.
You are doing the exact same, try reviewing that thread if you have time.
Regarding where gold rusts, what iron will do? I say iron will hold.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 13:42 # -
zjshami
MemberYou are free to hold your position. Keep it up.
I believe in doing proper home work before jumping into any debate.
Facts and figures help to prevail over emotions.Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 13:56 # -
amin1924
memberThanks for reminder on my freedom.
I can see your proper homework where you generalized and applied bad reputation on Hajees based on an incident in local lahore market.
No emotions, just pure logic involved here to dissect an irrational and corrupt idea.
Keep it up.
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 14:08 # -
zjshami
MemberI am sure, persons like you can improve the image of Hajis and Fundamentalists.
Then there would be good Hajis and good Fundamentalists.
Pakistan needs both.Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 14:36 # -
amin1924
memberSo you are sure that improvement by one person can lead to good hajis and good fundamentalists?
Perhaps based on one person's bad reputation lead you to make those statements above. Not good idea to generalize populations based on local, isolated and irrelevant incidents.
Thanks-
Posted 2 years ago on 10 Sep 2009 14:59 #
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