The object of religion is to secure the welfare of the people by finding solutions to their daily problems such as poverty, unemployment, and ill health.
These are the acts which please God.
The Mullahs have not performed their duty.
Instead of functioning as the enlightened shepherd who would lead his flock to spiritual and material felicity, they have misled the people, perpetrated ignorance, deprivation and superstition.( Ahmad Kasravi )
PKPolitics Discuss » Faith and Religion
What is Islam anyway ?
(18 posts)-
shimatoree
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 20 Aug 2010 19:17 # -
Shimatoree, a very good question you ask there. Before others come along and fall upon you like a ton of bricks perhaps, let me say that we seem to have divided Islam between rituals and abstruse theological discussions.
In between, we have totally lost sight of what one tends to call the spirit of Islam, captured among others, by the words you quote in your thread. So instead of being a source of justice, freedom and happiness as was originally intended, we have transformed Islam into a prison to keep the majority of our people deprived, in check and in order.
It is high time we stopped brandishing Islam simply as a political weapon and began applying the true principles of fraternity and equality contained in the Holy Quran.
Posted 1 year ago on 20 Aug 2010 19:43 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
MULLAHs have! performed their duty. They'v been performing their duty all along. They are continuing to do their job even today.
It is the people who have been shrugging them off, for over a century, now.
Why are then people blaming MULLAH for their own mistakes, crimes, wrongdoings, criminal negligence ?
Posted 1 year ago on 20 Aug 2010 19:44 # -
Haris
No mullahs have not!
They have successfully established an alliance with the ruling class and therefore were very successful to transform/interpret Qura’n and sunnah exactly the way rulers wanted to set their dictatorship. It were the same mullahs who declared those corrupt kings as ‘shadows of Allah’ and force people to do accordingly.
These very mullahs transformed a vibrant religion of Islam into a set of rituals. Result?
People harm other with all sorts of things and feel no bad as they go to mosques to perform those rituals only and feel good about themselves.
Posted 1 year ago on 20 Aug 2010 22:59 # -
hkbajwa
MemberExcellent topic
I think it is prtty evident (in spite of the wishful rants by the mullah-lovers) that the dfinition of Islam is still not agreed upon by all muslims.
MG i agree with you and dildar you are also absolutely right about the negligent and destructive role played by mullahs in terms of the spirit of Islam
HK, if you seriously believe that mullahs have done a great service to Islam, then i fear there is no hope for you.
According to islam there shouldn't even BE anything like mullahs. And it is clear for all to see how the emergence of the islamic "clergy" has reduced the faith to a political tool completely devoid of its true spirit.
Posted 1 year ago on 23 Aug 2010 7:38 # -
HKB, totally right. No intermediary between us and Allah Talha. That is part of the greatness of Islam. The immediacy of our contact with the Divine.
May Allah allow us to return to the initial simplicity of our religion.
Posted 1 year ago on 23 Aug 2010 11:22 # -
@ MG
So you think there should be no scholars, and that we do not need them?
Posted 1 year ago on 23 Aug 2010 12:58 # -
UmeR, Sure, have as many scholars as you like. Why not? See where it has got us. Islam has had a surfeit of scholars, an army of mullahs and we've just gone deeper and deeper into power politics and away from what Allah and our beloved Prophet (PBUH) wanted from us. Immediacy and simplicity in our faith. Submission to the word of God, not to the word of scholars.
Very often when I hear people trading hadith to prove this point or the other, I get the feeling: when was the last time they read the Quran Sherif? It is such a rich book, tells us so many, many things. And all we seem to have retained from God's Book is how to argue endlessly about the strangest things such as the importance of graves as we've been doing recently or the meaning of shirk or prostration or waseela or whatever.
If we have a scholar like Dr Ishaq, then OK, wholly in agreement. More such please. Otherwise, most "scholars" today seem to spend their time spreading dissension. That is not what Islam is about. It is about peace and love, justice and brotherhood. Non-materialism and infinite simplicity.
Posted 1 year ago on 23 Aug 2010 14:26 # -
MG, it's a famous hadith of Rasulallah(saw) that the scholars are the heirs of the Prophets. So one who says that we do not need scholars (aka Mullahs) is kidding himself, and isn't aware of the teachings of the Holy Quran and Ahadith. You know one of the signs of the judgment day, as told by Rasulallah(saw) was that knowledge will be taken away and ignorance will prevail. Now what is meant by knowledge will be taken away, when we still have and will have the Holy Quran and ahadith with us? What it means is that the people of knowledge will be taken away and people will go to the ignorant to seek knowledge who wouldn't know better than the questioner, and will themselves be misguided and will in turn misguide their followers. If a common man was to derive his own rulings, then God knows what would have happened to this world. And you know, one of the main reason of Wahabi's being misguided is that they claimed anyone who can read Quran and Ahadith, can derive his own rulings. And we can see from where they started (declaring everyone else except themselves, as Mushriks) and Gods knows where they will end. And while It is true that, Quran is divinely protected from error, but the understanding of it is not. Because if it was, we wouldn't have such groups as Khawarij and Wahabi's in Islam.
"And all we seem to have retained from God's Book is how to argue endlessly about the strangest things such as the importance of graves as we've been doing recently or the meaning of shirk or prostration or waseela or whatever. "
MG, these issues were never a bone of contention between any group of Islam before the advent of wahabism. Now discussing these issues might seem a strange/silly talk, but when they make illegitimate takfir of other Muslims on the basis of such issues, it is very important to refute them.
"Otherwise, most "scholars" today seem to spend their time spreading dissension."
That is not correct. But it is just that 'empty vessels make the most noise'. There are Alhamdulilah great scholars, infact majority of the scholars are on 'Haq' and talk about peace and unity between the Ummah, especially in these times, when life of a Muslim has no value. but their voices seem to fall on deaf ears.
Please do read these (v.imp) links, and do tell me what you think of them. http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhab.htm
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/madhhabstlk.htm
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/nuh/studyh.htm
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/ahlsunna.htmNot trying to proselytize, just being (trying to be) helpful. And I hope you won't mind me bothering you about this. t/c
Posted 1 year ago on 23 Aug 2010 23:23 # -
gv
Memberi think the issue is not scholars per se the problem emerges when you have an institutionalised scholarship which evolves into priesthood and different factions and schools of thought etc..
Objective islamic scholarship should be encouraged wherever possible
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Aug 2010 10:53 # -
UmeR, Thanks. Of course you're right to correct me where you think I've gone wrong. It's your duty, in fact. I'l be back when I've gone through your links.
For now just this one more thing: gv's last sentence sums up better than I managed the right position to take on Islamic scholarship.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Aug 2010 11:59 # -
shimatoree
MemberI resent the method by which a topic such as this is banished to SIBERIA ! Topics such as this belong up front in the current issues section. As a protest I am not going to come up with any new topics.
Ahmad Kasravi was a great man and a very courageous man for that. The Mullahs passed a fatwa that he should be killed and he was killed in the court where he had gone to defend himself against the charge of guess what - Blasphehmy.
He was attacked with a large butcher knife while in court again and again and he died befroe he could be taken to the hospital.
The Fatwas was passed on him by no less a person than Ayatullah Khomeini !Posted 1 year ago on 25 Aug 2010 0:44 # -
Sad and sorry, your story makes one, shimatoree, really so. And that Ayatullah Khomeini himself was involved in it definitly detracts from the greatness one tends to attribute to him.
Shimatoree, see, even to Siberia we have followed. And the thread has been kept alive and kicking in spite of freezing temperatures. Please to change your mind about posting new topics. We've been loyal, haven't we? Don't punish us for something we didn^t do.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Aug 2010 12:11 # -
Shimatoree
We miss your postings, I hope you re-consider your decision.........
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Aug 2010 19:18 # -
gv
Member@shimatoree
come on shimatoree stop acting like a girl and get back on the forum :P
Posted 1 year ago on 26 Aug 2010 11:12 # -
hkbajwa
Membergv
You are absolutely right regarding the evolution of scholars into priests.
Islamists tend to defend mullahs as scholars saying that these people are engaged in "research" and development of islamic thought and jurisprudence. They prefer to portray them as academics.
There is however one very basic difference between academics in all other fields and islamic "academics". Even though academics in every field tend to form an orthodoxy and detractors are often treated and referred to as heretics for questioning fundamental principles in that field, these "heretics" do not risk their lives in doing so.
Academia is filled with people disagreeing vehemently with each others' findings, theories and conclusions. It can even degenerate into full-scale academic wars with accusations of innaccuracy, plagiarism, falsification of research and the like. However no academic in any other field incites mob violence, none counsel the execution of "heretics" and every academic attempts to "crush" their enemies with better and more detailed research rather than violence.
That, however , cannot be said of our mullah "academics". They are so convinced on their monopoly of the truth that they will waste no time in declaring detractors from the orthodoxy as wajib-ul-qatl. Not only do they give passionate fire-and-brimstone speeches against their opponents, but will often resort to wholly un-academic methods to prove that they are "right".
Islamic thought and jurisprudence requires scholars. But these scholars must have their wings clipped and be de-clawed by society. As long as they possess the power to condemn and cause serious harm to detractors, they cannot be considered any better than a street thug.
I would pass a law that any mullah that incites violence, counsels the killing of others or in any way attempts to rob others of their right to disagree should be jailed, silenced and prevented from ever holding any positions where they can influence people with such hatred.
Just like a Phd in law cannot force a ruling upon the judiciary or a professor of politics cannot impose legislation on parliament, likewise a mullah has no right to enforce the conclusions of his findings upon mankind.
If only the mullahs would accept THAT, then we would be free of the death, destruction and complete loss of faith that they cause today and have been causing for a millenium
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Aug 2010 5:53 # -
UmeR, I more or less missed the train of a timely response to your post above with its four links. Sorry. But I can now say I have been through the texts and understood to some extent the importance of the "scholars" which was our point of dispute above. I wish to add that it was not my intention to dispute the greatness of the scholars of the past or the "fiqh of mainstream orthodox Sunni Imams" who have realy assimilated what they offer the believers. It was the other kind, I felt, who were doing little good to the propagation of Islam. Whatever... I'm glad the orthodox Sunnis are in the lead in our faith because they are the most tolerant and allow other sects to follow in their wake as well so long as the three essentials remain intact: belief in Allah, the Quran and the Prophet (PBUH).
That said, I wish the spirit of Islam that we the common people are imbued with were also given an occasional chance to come to the fore.
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Aug 2010 17:12 # -
MG, No disagreement there.
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Neem Hakeem, Khatra-e-Jaan
Neem Mullah, Khatra-e-ImaanDono se bacho, tu zindaghi asaan
Posted 1 year ago on 27 Aug 2010 23:22 #
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