misalligned
Member
Nations are united on the basis of culture, language, colour, food etc.
Please tell me according to your understanding that what is the uniting factor in pakistani nation which is composed of punjabi, pathan, balochi, sindhi, birohi, kashmiri, seraiki etc.
Because this is the thing which we need to make strong to keep them united and this is the thing which will be more under attack by the enimies of this country. Please give your understanding without hi-jacking the subject.
hussainmehdi
Member
religions.
Adonis
Member
It is a grave misconception that Pakistan is composed of Punjabis, Pathans, Balochis, Sindhis etc. Pakistan was not created as a union of different ethnicities. All these ethnicities are not definite distinct entities. Even the present provinces in Pakistan are adminsitrative units not separate ethnic units.
Culture or language are not enough to unite a country. If that were true then german speaking people would not have been divided among Germans, Austrians and Swiss.
Pakistan was created by the people of Pakistan to realize their common aspiration. Their vision was a country where edicts of Islam govern every aspect of life. The quest for realization of this vision is the cement that unite sthis nation.
Religion is the dividing not uniting factor.
IJay
member
ISLAM.. one word answer
Javedsheikh
If you hate islam so much why don't become george or david
atleast we would treat you as non muslim
because all your statement are not constructive but distructive and insult to islam
You know nothing about pakistan what was the reason behind its creation and you called yourself a Pakistani..Shame on you...
hussainmehdi
Member
religions are in the gens of human beings.
this is natural.
do not fight with nature.
please.
Patroitism.
Love for soil.
That is the only binding factor for the people of Pakistan.
Revivalist
member
Nationalist & Mufti JS
Islam and nothing else is and could be the only binding factor for the Muslims across the globe. That's why we see west only attacking Islam and using Islam to fulfill their evil agendas through people like JS and its ilk.
"Muslims are one Ummah, their land is one and their war is one". The bond of Aqeedah is much stronger then the bond of blood, the great example of which could be seen in Badr.
If for example I agree for the sack of argument that Patriotism is the binding force for the people of Pakistan, so if God forbid Pakistan divide tomorrow which part will you love but natural the province you are living in. If that province disintegrates then which part of the province you will love but natural the place you are living in. This like a rolling stone will never stop. Similarly if you think language be the binding factor, even this will come down to your tribe, the locality and then family. We can see a tug of war between different tribes to get the authority.
Hence we see that all these bonds are temporary and only become active when enemy attacks i.e. 1965 war. But as soon as the war ends people bond by these fragile bonds starts fighting each other.
Ideological bond is the strongest and people of Pakistan and the entire Ummah can get united under the banner of Islam and not Nationalism, patriotism etc which in it self are divisive and not able to unite people.
Regards
misalligned
Member
JS
for the sake of discussion i agree that religon is the dividing factor, now please tell what could unite them.
Nationalist:
There are always basis for patriotism, sometimes ethinical, sometimes social, sometimes religon also act as a basis for patriotism. So my question was to identify the basis.
Adoins
My point was that sometimes language could also keep nation united, i did not said that always this happens. And also you did not said a word for the topic which was to highlight what could hold us together in your opinion. If thats not religon then what is that? i wanted to know that.
@all
The purpose of this discussion is, may be we could after this discussion come up with even more than one uniting factors and then later we could examine that who is striking on them and for what?
Revivalist
member
When we talk about the people of Pakistan meaning 17crore people as a whole, for us the strongest bond that can keep us united is with a doubt Islam but if we talk about different sections with in Pakistan then for them there are different bonds that keep them together. And that sense of togetherness only activates when they fear of an external foe. So for some people language is the uniting force, for same certain locality and for some tribal loyalties. Hence one can find diverse reason for partial unities but when it comes to permanent bond between the people of Pakistan and the Ummah its only Islam and nothing else....
Regards
Revivalist
member
(with correction)
When we talk about the people of Pakistan meaning 17crore people as a whole, for us the strongest bond that can keep us united is with out a doubt Islam but if we talk about different sections with in Pakistan then for them there are different bonds that keep them together. And that sense of togetherness only activates when they fear of an external foe. So for some people language is the uniting force, for same certain locality and for some tribal loyalties. Hence one can find diverse reason for partial unities but when it comes to permanent bond between the people of Pakistan and the Ummah its only Islam and nothing else....
Regards
shikra
Blocked
Show me where religion has worked to unite the humanity.
Are the Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs untied with the rope of religion.
No!
They get close for their economic needs to protect their survival.
I agree with JS that for one reason or other, the religion has done more damage to the Humanity.
Most of the killings and bloodshed in the human history has been done due to religion.
Religion was initiated to capture the sovereignty of the region under the disguise of Divine Origin of State.
The Ruler was declared as the image and direct appointee of God. He was known as Zille-Elahi in the East.
This philosophy has failed to work in 21st century.
The shopkeepers of Religion are aware what they are selling is fake, but has no other option to run their business.
To conclude one can say that the religion, like some other concepts, is also a dividing factor.
Fahim23
Member
only "Interests" can keep us united. When it was in the interest of Bengalis they struggled with us to form Pakistan, and when it was not they left us. Right now it is not in the interest of Balochistan to be part of Pakistan and therefore they are struggling to leave us. They damn care if they are leaving any muslim country. We are more friends with China as opposed to KSA or any other muslim majority country because China serves our intrests better.
When our interests collides we form sects in the religion, we form classes in the society and we even adopt new langauges.
I don't buy that Pakistan means Lailaha-illalah. Tht Kalma is universal and has nothing to do with certain piece of land. And it cannot be forced on the people of that land. My friends/brothers who are non-muslim but living in this country since ages are as much Pakistan as me or anyone else. It was the cruelity of enormous magnitude when just because someone didn't chose to convert to Islam, they were kicked out from their homes and forced to migrate to india or vice versa.
Treat everyone equally, do not deprive them of their rights, and maintain just and fair system of governance... in other words keep their interest in being united... even indians would love to be part of Pakistan.
mjkk86
Member
tolerance, patience and repect for all colors,races,ethnicity and religions can hold us together..
am sure only religion can't hold us together, if u don't believe me search, what was the contributing factor ov most ov wars including civil wars.
educate every1 that will bring possitive change obviously a farmer can't vote any1 else except his landlord. think about it!
Muslims are ONE Ummah?
What a joke?
They are divided into 56 states which struggle to protect their economic and political agenda, even at the cost of invading other Muslim state, part of same 'ONE-Ummah.'
One section of One-Ummah is enjoying the lust of wine and beautiful women where the other section is dying of hunger.
misalligned
Member
atlast this topic is again hi-jacked. JS bravo you have done it. This thread is again converted into Islam and secularism discussion which is going on all the threads.
Only Fahim has replied according to the topic.
What compells you to make every topic the same? Please if you and shikra want to post something against muslims and islam, just click any thread and post your comments in that. the same is also true for Mr. revivalist who is repeating the same mantra in every topic and every thread.
misalligned
Member
Fahim23
Totally agree with you, now the next step is think what is that common interest which could keep us united and how to develop that interest. I mean could we do something to keep this country united.
Fahim23
Member
@misalligned
We have to eradicate the discrimination that is present at all levels in our society. Do you note that Balochistan is burning these days (yes even more) and here on this forum hardly you will find any topic relevant to that except the one created by IJay. I have hardly found any Baloch from Balochistan on internet forums.
Also in civil and military beaurocracy which take the shots for this country their presence is like "aatay men namak barabar". Even in media you will not find any Sindhi, Pathan or Balochi Anchor. Have you seen any Balochi journalist? Check the current CJ of Pakistan who has become CJ on Balochistan's domicile...who is he is he baloch? Who is the IJ of Balochistan...is he Baloch? These are the factors which grow a sense of alienation and deprivation in the neglacted areas of Pakistan. They are not even given a chance to come and cry for their grievences that too is being done by non-balochs. 90% of Balochistan's budget is depandant on the aid from Center a province which is full of natural resources and actually meet the energy demands of whole Pakistan.
Population of Punjab is growing while other provinces are contracting. Now 60% of Pakistan is Punjab. The three provinces except Punjab has agreed on NFC award to be awarded on the basis of population+poverty+area. But Punjab is insisting that it should be solely on the basis of population. Water share is the another bone of contention especiall between Sindh, NWFP and Punjab. And Balochistan has water issues with Sindh.
It is time we give preference and special attention to under developed and deprived peopel of Pakistan. We need to make their own voices heard on national level. I'd suggest that until they are brought on the fairly equal level, the development work in already developed areas should be minimised and only maintained. Our support will boost confidenace into them and eventually develop a sense of brotherhood. So that they too feel that it is Pakistan not Punjabistan. Only if we do that then we can remain united.
Fahim23
Member
We also need strong political parties which are present in every part of Pakistan. This is very power ful tool to keep us united. And being PPP supporter I take pride in the fact that PPP is one and only such party which represents federation.
misalligned
Member
Fahim
you highlighted so many problems which we all know already, if you want i could even write 10 more points that why we are divided and what should be done. But the fact is that no body will ever gonna do that.
So i posted somewhat different topic. That if there is something which could hold us together inspite of this injustice which is present in between provinces and people.
In the next message you first time responded towards the issue, that political party. Yea thats true i 100% agree that a political party could hold us together and infact it did in the past. But now you see even this issue is under strike by the people who want to see pakistan in peices.
and PPP yea i was also once a big supporter of PPP but even PPP is deterioation now and it has almost lost its support in balochistan and even in NWFP its very limited now.
aristotle
Member
A party that could not be united itself can unite the nation? :)
Great we need jokes like this, keep it up:))))
common factor that can unite us?
Pakistaniayat.............
see reference earthquake Oct8th.
aristotle
Member
Leadership is also required... With vision and sincerity.. during October 8 earthquake media had played this role.. so someone should be here to lead this nation in right direction with unity
Media is still there with the same spirit.
but we need to look for other factors like Common feelings on a certain subject and a leadership off course ...
@ misalligned,
This is the third law of motion:
"to every action there is equal and opposite reaction".
1. First you should have read the postings by Ijay, hussainmehdi and revivalist, before making a judgment.
2. Before wishing to make Pakistanis united, it is equally important to trace and diagnose the dividing factors.
3. You could experience yourself where some scholars would attempt to push you towards distraction as if they are on a mission.
hussainmehdi
Member
Beenai:
what is pakistanyat ???
those, who came to help and rescue earthquake victims came on the basis of human feeling.
chinese, bhartis, britons, americans and many other also came to rescue them. they did not come on pakistaniyat.
on the other hand, as a matter of fact, thousands of earthquake victims are still helpless and 'pakistanis' have fraudulantly digested rescue money. go and check out.
what is pakistanyat???
hanging of bhutto ???
you know? first they paved the urdu sindhi conflict in sindh to destabilize it to make sindh less valuable and more blackmailable, then they hanged bhutto. and people of sindh saw 'apmso' immediately after hanging of bhutto. the ground work was already complete before hanging bhutto. so, sindh could not safegaurd bhutto with full force because sindh was already destabilized and divided.
the same thing they are now doing with punjab. they are doing every effort to destabilize punjab the same way as they have destabilized sindh forever perhaps. they have not yet succeeded, but they are doing hard. once, punjab is destabilized, they will hang both nawaz sharif and shahbaz sharif the same way as they hanged bhutto definitely.
nwfp has no leadership,
balochistan has no leadership,
sindh has no leadership,
only punjab has leadership and it is a matter of time when they will eliminate both nawaz sharif and shahbaz sharif,
and after that ???
and you say pakistaniyat ???
my dear, come out from dreams.
and do some hard work to save pakistan.
Fahim23
Member
@misalligned
I'm sure in your past you supported PPP because of its idealogy and manifesto. Not solely because of its party leadership. One can always disagree or even dislike any particular leader or his/her actions but unless there has been radical changes in your way of thinking you don't change your idealogy.
I believe that just because party is going on wrong directions you should not immediately quit it, it is more wise, courageous and sensible to continue ur support and make ur sincere efforts to get it back to right direction. Its like if there are some problems or some persons in your home that you don't like so you are quitting ur home. Instead of quitting it, i htink its better if u stay in ur family and raise ur voice and act to make things right.
Political party is very effective tool to involve masses and create a unifying bond among them. PPP has the capability of it and for the sake of country you should support this party. (I don't mean never criticize it, in fact criticism is a kind of support, but criticism should not be for the sake of criticism it should be for self assessment). We should also hope that other major political parties follow the foot steps of PPP and make it national party.
misalligned
Member
JS and All,
Actually somehow i agree with Fahim and the point i wanted to convey by initiating this thread was to highlight the importance of political process in a country.
This is the only thing which makes a country united or leads towards dis-unity. Pakistan was made with a political process. The molvies were even disunited even at that time, some were against the creation of pakistan and some were for the creation of pakistan.
Yes this is also true no one could deny that: a political process always need, always require some real issues and the issue behind the r´creation of pakistan was two nation theory and this issue was cashed by a political party through political process. It was not taken by some religious party and was not done by the consensus of all Mullas.
The same is true today, the political parties are so weak that the most un-reliable and the most controversal people are now representative of our main stream political parties, the person who done keep his word in public is our president. The person who run away from the country to save his **** is the head of the other main political party, MQM is another big un-reliable party.
the people of pakistan have no one to trust in, so there is no center so now they have made their own small centers which they are following.
1 - Some are following west (so-called secular fascists)
2- Some are following their wadeeras/Chs/ maliks etc ( if they are in PPP they vote for PPP, if they leave PPP and join Q league then they vote for Q league)
3- Some are following THAGs, means religious leaders like Fazlo baghairat, Qazi, Moulana Sufi Muhammad, Ilyas Qadri etc. ( all of them are following their own agenda and all of them call it islam and all of them are different, and follower of every one is forced to think that only he is right and other is wrong or sometimes even KAfir)
So to come out of this situation and to make Paistan strong, united, all we need is a political party which could unite all pakistanis on some common issue which could be anyone like could be even based on religon, could be based on hatred against India, could be based on security or may be fighting against terrorism but it should be a real party not like the parties which are operating now, who ask overseas pakistanis to send their money in pakistan and at the same time they send their own money out of pakistan. LOSERS
misalligned
Member
For Fahim only:
i could discuss the reason why i am not following PPP now in some other thread but the main reason was that the ideaology i was following is no more there and its only the name of PPP which is still present but the ideaology died with the great Bhutto. I can prove you with examples even Shaheed BB was not like greta Bhutto, even she was most of the time pro-american ( sometimes loyal to the rightest and sometimes loyal to the leftists) and the same american killed her father and later also killed herself.
So as the ideaology is no more there so i was having no reason to follow only the name and IMO the political party should be a bit different than a family which a person dont choose with a free choice and is bounded with this in every condition.
raheb
Member
YES! One thing is common, Inability to see What and How much commons we have.
There are NO two persons who have evrything common with each other, so both are different. It is NOT common factors which unite, it is art to be united yet with differences, and that ART is missing in us.
Of course ISLAM should be The Biggest Magnatic source, but it is distoted and need a long time to unite.
raheb
Topic hijacked again! Congrats!
Back to the topic... Rite now, in present enviorment, the only point which will unite us is a full bound WAR against us (the reason I said full war is cuz we are tolerating the DRONES attacks like a BHAGHARUT NATION so far. Or perhaps its the american way to precondition us (A phenomenan where u do small insults and eventually a final big one but by then people are precondioned and won't mind being killed as they are too busy fighting with each other or too self centered.
the most important thing is economic prosperity , rich people of totally different religions, languages, cultures and colors can live together in absolute harmony.
other minor things are a culture which evolves out of a strong entertainment media.. tv/films and national festivals like basant, standardized education and national sports etc things which in general give the people within the borders a homogeneous thought,similar passions and a national identity.but with this regions should be given room for local cultures too so they don't feel that their historic identity is endagered, like russia did with all the stan states.
also education of national language is very very important.If you look at a linguistic map and an actual map of the world, wherever the linguistic borders differ from actual borders there is conflict.language is not just a mode of communication but a mode of thought.
negative things which can and have been used in uniting pakistanis are religion and hatred of other countries which work but come with a lot of unhealthy side effects. nothing against religion but religion should be a philosophy which helps you lead a healthy life not a propaganda machine
@hussianmehdi,
no1....Pakistaniyat was a spirit u can call it patriotism.
yes..there were all sort of help across the world...but i am only talking about the national spirit ...through which every Pakistani came out from his/her homes in Islamabad,Pindi,Sailkot ,Karachi ,DIG khan and Peshawer to help them out ...
there were relief camps all over Pakistan.
all oil providing companies were giving free fuel to the helicopters going there for relief work.
all the mobile service providers were giving free service to rescue workers .
all the FMCG companies were giving free stuff to relief .
all the MEDIA sent their staff there for relief n coverage .
all the common ppl of Pakistan wants to extend their help in every possible way ......................
thats call spirit...thats call one agenda ...
thats call patriotism...............
no2...as long as digesting all the funds by international community is concerned..........
it has got nothing to do with Awam.
we never received that.we never responsible to distribute that ....
it was Govt who has been given the funds and its her duty to distribute it with justice.
if it didn't happened ....
that doesn't mean that our national spirit was wrong.
A true leadership
This is the only key which could unite pakistanis, a leadership which is well trusted and reliable.
aristotle
Member
Agree with LetsDoIt
as i mentioned earlier that a leadership can save us and lead us towards brighter tomorrow... a leader with pure intention, sincerity and off course Vision ….
Pakistan is waiting for Messiah
nahi naumeed iqbal apni kashte weeran se
zara num ho tu ye matti buhat zarkhez hey saqi
all Bhutto, zardari, sharif, qazi,fazlo, altaf, asfab …all crap will be part of history dustbin.. inshalla soon..
hum dekhen gay
wo din jis ka wada hey
in journalism there are 5 Ws and 1 H ..which completes a message . so please complete it for me.
who will be that leader ?
when he will come?
what would be different in him/her from others?
why people will follow him/her?
where can we find him ?
how can we identify him/her ?
misalligned
Member
Beenai you dont have to look for a leader the leaders are known from their stand. Who knew about chief Justice before 9th march but the whole country get united behind him.
Cmon guys, be realistic!
Who is a real,sincere leader around?
On the basis of my analysis, there are only two people from main streamline politics.
Imran Khan:
Plus points:
Sincere and loyal to pakistan.
Educated and Intellectual,
Bold and straightforward,
Is not corrupt or greedy for money like most of present politicians.
Negative points:
Very immature politician and been fooled by Nawaz twice.
Association with qazi makes him less popular in some classes
Has been previously associated with a dictator.
NAWAZ:
Plus points:
Experienced politician
Comes from punjab and due to this backing he is bound to have a big following from punjab even if he is in opposition(consider vote bank)
Has been PM twice so knows the way govt function.
Is now accepted in Army after demise of musshy
Has a strong support from his brother who is a good administrator.
Negative Points;
Traitor (previous deal with a dictator to save his thick neck)
Left the nation at mercy of a dictator for years and kept his mouth shut all these years.
Has lost support in pakhtoonkhwa and sindh and baluchistan
Never talked against DRONE attacks until recently when media hyped this issue.
Will do anything to keep atleast punjab govt in his house, recently he dealt behind IK,Qazi who actually were the first and original supporter of this lawyer movement.
The way he high jacked lawyers movement and ditch IK and Qazi shows his character(iqteydaar kay leeye seeriyan apney dushmanoo kay sur say banaoe ya dostoun kee gardaan say! Sub jayez hay mian sahib kee kitaab may)
So guys, if you have to choose between them then?
Aik bawakoof magar loyal
Doosra chalak magar na qabiley bharoosa!
Choice is yours..
Personally, I won't trust a traitor!
Once a traitor is always a traitor.
aristotle
Member
Khan_sahib
agree with u
I would prefer a bewakkof rather than a traitor
bewakoof may become smart after experiences but a selfish traitor will always betray u .. My hopes with IK…
Mine too but he has to make sure that people who are really sincere are on board with him. Currently, apart from one or two, he is also been surrounded by bunch of useless self acclaimed leaders with no vision.
i agree.
we need to keep all the traitors out of our system.
aristotle
Member
IK must be away from Qazi (JI) tola, they r not reliable and selfish also. They had betrayed this nation in the name of Islam.
they never do a single positive thing.. They just used to protest branded politics, We can’t rely on them. They are just Batoo k Ghazi. They can destroy IK’s goodwill. So he needs to separate himself from these Jamatis.
Again, the only common thing is belonging to this nation. To be a Pakistani.
netengr
blocked
netengr
blocked
I find good advice from Moulana Imran Khan Rehmatullah ,Bhokay ,Nanggay ,Ghareeb should not come to the politics .
Aajatay hain munh utha ker :)
Pkpolitics main tou koi ghareeb nahi hay na ???
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