PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

What is stopping Thar Coal project???

(155 posts)
  1. Anonymous

    Why Thar coal project has not started yet? What is the reason for delay. Last time I checked there was disupute between federal and provincal government over the ownership and royalty of the project.

    What is the latest news on that? What is government doing about it? Why is opposition not bringing up the issue?

    http://jang.com.pk/jang/aug2009-daily/07-08-2009/u1752.htm

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 16:15 #
  2. a) Govt has not reached a decision yet, how to take commissions on this project.
    b) Provincial Government wants under invoice or under the table reporting of the original income.
    c) government is busy with grooming the next generation of vampires which will be unleashed on the public very soon!
    d) Opposition is waiting for their turn, as they have a secret pact with the current govt, opposition will give full permission to the current govt for total loot maar, and when oppositions will come into power (soon) then they will reap the benefits exactly the same way.
    e) Core Commanders of the areas in which this treasure is buried are also waiting for their commission....

    Mulla!

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 16:20 #
  3. Anonymous

    What can awam do about it? How can we improve this situation? ( Please dont say "we cant") becuase we can.

    Also, I dont necessarily think this is the case.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 16:22 #
  4. Anonymous

    We should involve some MNAs or Senate members on this website so they can raise our questions in parliament question hours.

    How do they do that in western democracies?

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 16:48 #
  5. we can by just attacking these offices and occupying them!

    can you do that ?

    In western society, each society, cleaned up their corruption from inside out, they killed, burned and hanged their corrupt families and welcomed jews for investment, then went to war with their neighbors to eliminate their influence, then it became a sparkling examples for the slumdogs!

    The woke up way before

    Mulla!

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 17:54 #
  6. Anonymous

    Lack of commissin (kickback)

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:04 #
  7. izbaek

    rajasthan thar desert also have such coal reserves but these are of very low quality

    this is i got from wikipedia of all coal reserves of world

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal

    Country ↓ Bituminous & anthracite ↓ SubBituminous & lignite ↓ TOTAL ↓ Share ↓
    USA 111,338 135,305 246,643 27.1
    Russia 49,088 107,922 157,010 17.3
    China 62,200 52,300 114,500 12.6
    India 90,085 2,360 92,445 10.2
    Australia 38,600 39,900 78,500 8.6
    South Africa 48,750 0 48,750 5.4
    Ukraine 16,274 17,879 34,153 3.8
    Kazakhstan 28,151 3,128 31,279 3.4
    Poland 14,000 0 14,000 1.5
    Brazil 0 10,113 10,113 1.1
    Germany 183 6,556 6,739 0.7
    Colombia 6,230 381 6,611 0.7
    Canada 3,471 3,107 6,578 0.7
    Czech Republic 2,094 3,458 5,552 0.6
    Indonesia 740 4,228 4,968 0.5
    Turkey 278 3,908 4,186 0.5
    Greece 0 3,900 3,900 0.4
    Hungary 198 3,159 3,357 0.4
    Pakistan 0 3,300 3,300 0.3
    Bulgaria 4 2,183 2,187 0.2
    Thailand 0 1,354 1,354 0.1
    North Korea 300 300 600 0.1
    New Zealand 33 538 571 0.1
    Spain 200 330 530 0.1
    Zimbabwe 502 0 502 0.1
    Romania 22 472 494 0.1
    Venezuela 479 0 479 0.1
    TOTAL 478,771 430,293 909,064 100.0

    so if you see the figures ,unlike other countries who are top in the list,pakistan doesnt have good quality of coal :anthracite and bituminous coal.

    lower quality of bitumionous coal and lignites are only present in pakistan.

    risks associated with such coal

    1.low return
    2.dirty coal=> more pollution

    problems with pakistan.
    1.lack of a mining and petrochemical companies with clean and new technology
    2.no one want to take risk in dirty coal as it can be only used for thermal power plants ;even that is possible if you have indigenous manufacturing capabilities .
    3.less incentives from pakistan government

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:04 #
  8. but we cant do anything!

    Mulla!

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:07 #
  9. netengr

    may be it is reserved for Sindhodesh

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:09 #
  10. Since the discovery of Thar coal in 1991 very little development work or study has been initiated. Thar coal has low calorific value but is environmentally friendly with a low Sulfur content.

    The Thar coal deposits extend across the border and they are currently being mined for power generation in Rajistan in India. India has no reservations about the use of these coal deposits. Coal extraction from Thar will be a development requiring 3-4 years before coal is made available for use. The ideal situation would be that GOP uses the coal to reduce Pakistan's dependence on hydro projects, the only alternative method is to develop the Thar coal via international financing. This is possible only by inviting international power companies to invest in Pakistan and provide the required funding for the development of the Thar coal field.

    The Chinese delegation offered to establish a coal-fired power generation plant in Thatta, 125 kilometers from Karachi with an investment of about $ 200 million. Initially the capacity of the proposed plant would be 100 megawatt but it would be extendable to 200 megawatt. The plant's location would be in the vicinity of Jhirk coal mines with have reserves of 1.3 billion tonnes of coal.
    The Chinese delegation leader was optimistic about the successful completion of the project within the timeframe of 22 months beginning from the day of start of construction. The leader of the delegation was emphatic in her assessment that Pakistan would be economically benefited to a significant extent if power generation was switched over to coal firing in view of the abundance of coal reserves in the country.

    In Sindh alone coal reserves are estimated at 200 billion tonnes. The Chinese leader also informed the Sindh officials that electricity generation in China was based to the extent of 80 per cent on coal firing thanks to domestic availability of coal.

    The willingness of the Chinese National Mechanical Import and Export Corporation to make investment in coal based power plants in Pakistan is indeed a highly welcome development against the long backdrop of inaction on this front by the previous government despite the presence of high quality coal reserves in Sindh. It may be recalled here that a Hong Kong based firm specializing in power generation projects had, about five years ago, concluded an agreement with the then government for the establishment of three coal- based power generation units of 200 megawatt each at Keti Bunder near Thatta. But the project failed to materialize because the foreign company backed out of its earlier commitment to obtain coal supplies from the reserves in Thar and instead insisted on import of coal from Hong Kong.

    It may be noted here that the coal reserves in Jirk, which is in the close vicinity of Thatta, were surprisingly not mentioned as a domestic source of supply for the Keti Bunder project which was conceived on the basis of Thar coal reserves.

    Besides Power Plant producing cheap electricity Coal can also salvage the cement industry which is in bad shape because of heavy cost of inputs. The use of coal would result in a saving of nearly Rs. 495 million per year for a plant producing 3,000 tons of cement per day. The use of furnace oil for producing one ton of cement is said to cost Rs. 924, as against about Rs. 374 with the use of coal.

    Among other advantages accruing from the contemplated shift, mention has also been made of the prospect of the national exchequer saving $170 million in the event of the cement sector running to its full capacity, or at least $100 million a year on the utilization of 63 per cent production capacity as now.

    A sizeable cut in the cost of production, eventually leading to the much needed reduction in prices, should cause spurt in demand, providing a boost to production of cement in the country. Increase in consumption thus prompted, should help solve the problems.

    Eventually, reactivation of the national cement industry with an overall reduction in cost of production, coupled with a marked emphasis on the growth of housing sector, which figures prominently in the government's development priorities, can certainly serve as a strong catalyst for the country's economic revival.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:15 #
  11. izbaek

    @all of you

    no one will invest in mining such coal project as it needs huge investment.

    and secondly pakistan really have no indigenous manufacturing capability .

    and why will chinese invest in such low return coal mining

    probably pakistan could invite bhp bilton or rio tinto from australia:)

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:15 #
  12. Anonymous

    semirza, Chinese showed their interest during earlier days of Musharraf time. There was a lots of activity and interest from various stake holders but then everything settled down and there was no news about the project until very recently. Now again, there is no talk over it anymore.
    As far as I remember there were some issues over the quality of Thar coal reserves but I cant remember the specifics.

    I think the Chinese interest you have quoted in your post is from earlier Musharraf days. I believe there was an MOU that was signed between the two government but then as I said, no significant progress was made over the project.

    What stops it from proceeding any further? are there any quality issues? semirza is suggesting quality is not bad for Thar coal reserves. Are there any technical reasons then? How can we get an update and how can we have this question raised during parliament question hour? or atleast have some TV anchor make this project a topic of discussion.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:23 #
  13. Exactly, the quality is not an issue.

    The bloody thing should be burned and burned soon, thats an issue.
    The project lies burried as happend to all projects with a change of government.

    Huge deposits when being sold take some time, thats an issue. They are not willing to burn it but to sell it, thats an issue.

    I hope you got it. The issue is the current government and its greed at the expence of masses who suffer, and will keep suffering for quite some time.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:40 #
  14. izbaek

    i especially feel its more of a quality issue

    once the price of coal increases,there might be some stakeholders who would dig their eyes on this coal reserves ;

    until then i feel no one is going to mine it lest government gives high incentives on investment

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:45 #
  15. Anonymous

    They were trying to privatize the coal field but there was a lot of criticism over that and they probably halted the plan.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:46 #
  16. Anonymous

    May be pkpolitics can do a show on Thar coal project. Instead of wasting time on journalists and individuals they can probably take up a real issue.

    I desperately hope someone takes up this issue and reveal the reality.

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:47 #
  17. Bsobaid,
    Just for information.
    Thar coal deposits are the property of:
    -The State
    -The one on whose property/properties such deposits are discovered.

    -Dont you think Talpurs have the biggest stake?
    -Zardaris are married into Talpurs?
    There are others (Thar) eager to have their share of the 'grub'.
    Just educate me. May be I am just speculating!

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:52 #
  18. Anonymous

    Who owns the land where coal is found? Is it a private ownership of state ownership?

    Lets say Thar project is stopped due k ick backs or commission or talpur/zardari.

    What can we do about it? any ideas??

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 18:56 #
  19. attack and occupy the area and sell it!

    can you do that ?

    if not then let us know...

    Mulla!

    Posted 5 years ago on 07 Aug 2009 19:53 #
  20. shahzad1924

    IMHO this is just like every other issue. work on this project requires sincerity from the leadership. so, the real solution lies in uprooting this corrupt regime and replacing it with a sincere leadership that rules with Islam - caliphate.

    in the mean time, we dont just sit there and relax. we have an obligation of accounting the rulers. we should investigate into the problem a bit more and launch a campaign.

    who is in?

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 0:55 #
  21. Anonymous

    I am in shahzad. Suggest what we should do.

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 2:08 #
  22. shahzad1924

    1) first we need to investigate into the actual size of the coal deposit and its worth in $$

    2) and we need more info on this;

    semirza - "Thar will be a development requiring 3-4 years before coal is made available for use."

    what are the costs involved etc.

    3)and we need to agree that the following is not a solution;

    "...the only alternative method is to develop the Thar coal via international financing. This is possible only by inviting international power companies to invest in Pakistan and provide the required funding for the development of the Thar coal field."

    we have already seen what the IPPs have already done to our power sector, and anyway thats not allowed from Islam.

    4) if possible, get a copy of this agreement, so we can work on a plan.

    "The Chinese delegation offered to establish a coal-fired power generation plant in Thatta, 125 kilometers from Karachi with an investment of about $ 200 million."

    5) what are the other coal deposits instead of thar?

    "In Sindh alone coal reserves are estimated at 200 billion tonnes."

    how much is in thar. and how much is in other areas.

    6) "It may be recalled here that a Hong Kong based firm specializing in power generation projects had, about five years ago, concluded an agreement with the then government for the establishment of three coal- based power generation units of 200 megawatt each at Keti Bunder near Thatta. But the project failed to materialize because the foreign company backed out of its earlier commitment to obtain coal supplies from the reserves in Thar and instead insisted on import of coal from Hong Kong."

    keti bandar is one end of a massive wind corridor. we need to investigate whether the coal project could benefit the wind mill project and what effects it would have on the surroundings etc.

    with all this info, we can start a campaign and account the puppet rulers of Pakistan on this.

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 3:52 #
  23. Anonymous

    Only available source is internet. I am a bit spectacle about the credibility of the information found on websites but I am going to look up and present whatever I could find.

    However, I dont think international financing and IPP is a bad idea. I also think government does not have enough resources to exploit the coal reserves but we will think about this issue when we will get to it. First thing first, get the info.

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 4:01 #
  24. shahzad1924

    yeah! it has resources to kill its own citizens, but it doesn't have resources to set up a coal based power project.

    anyway, i agree, lets get the info first.

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 4:16 #
  25. China is in coal mining since a long time and was willing. Its a trend now that whenever western companies are engaged in exploring mineral or fossil fuels, in Pakistan they always claim that deposits are of a low grade.

    This happened in Fort Mandro that is some distance away from DG Khan, in 1969. I am witness to this exploration that was being done by a Canadian company. I am talking about Uranium deposits that had been discovered there. The Canadian accessment was that the ore was of a very low grade
    but the Chinese who were called later, said the otherwise and proved it.

    Thar coal is low in sulpher, a good sign. Only thing is like Shahzaed pointed out a delay from the government itself. Corrupt leadership is hindering Thar coal projects.

    Posted 5 years ago on 08 Aug 2009 11:02 #
  26. shahzad1924

    we can do another thing. the thar coal deposits are not the only resource with which Allah (SWT) has blessed Pakistan. Pakistan has also been blessed with other energy resources, like the gas beneath southern balochistan, the wind corridor in gharo-keti-bandar, the uranium deposits, and minerals like copper, iron and gold (Rekodiq project in chaghi).

    so, maybe without going into too much detail for the thar coal deposits, we should account the rulers for the all the resources we have.

    but of course, any details would be much appreciated.

    Posted 5 years ago on 09 Aug 2009 3:21 #
  27. @shahzad1924
    One tower of 120-140 ft height, can accomodate a wind turbine capable to convert wind power into electricity in the range of 0.6 MW.

    The erection and commissioning will take not months but weeks only. China is quite advanced in this technology now, and all sorts of generators are available.

    Posted 5 years ago on 09 Aug 2009 15:49 #
  28. Anonymous

    @Shahzad, I have got answers to some of the questions you raised. I will compile an answer and post on the forum very soon.

    @semirza, Chinese company opted out of the project on tarrif issues. Musharraf made some serious efforts over the project and got some Chinese companies to invest but there were some legit tarrif disagreements.

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 17:32 #
  29. NNL

    Guys i had a question can we upgrade our Nuclear Power Plants like we have the technology so why cant we. I mean would that be a bad idea. ?

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 17:53 #
  30. shikra

    Thar coal Reserves

    If All The Oil Reserves of Saudia Arab & Iran Put Together
    These Are Approximately 375 Billion Barrels,
    But
    A Single Thar Coal Reserve Of Sindh is about 850 Trillion Cubic Feet,
    Which is More Than Oil Reserves Of Saudia & Iran.
    These reserves estimated at 850 trillion cubic feet (TCF) of gas, about 30 times higher than Pakistan 's proven gas reserves of 28 TCF.
    Dr Murtaza Mughal president of Pakistan Economy Watch in a statement said that these reserves of coal worth USD 25 trillion can not only cater the electricity requirements of the country for next 100 years but also save almost four billion dollars in staggering oil import bill.
    Just 2% usage of Thar Coal Can Produce 20,000 Mega Watts of Electricity for next 40Years ,without any single Second of Load Shedding.
    and if the whole reserves are utilized, then it could easily be imagined how much energy could be generated.
    The coal power generation would cost Pakistan PKR 5.67 per unit while power generated by Independent Power Projects cost PKR 9.27.
    It Requires Just Initial 420 Billion Rupees Initial Investment,
    Whereas Pakistan Receives annually 1220 Billion from Tax Only.
    Chinese and other companies had not only carried out surveys and feasibilities of this project but also offered 100 percent investment in last 7 to 8 years but the “Petroleum Gang” always discouraged them in a very systematic way.
    But Petroleum lobby , is very strong in Pakistan and they are against any other means of power generation except for the imported oil. This lobby is major beneficiary of the increasing oil bill that is estimated above 15 billion dollar this year. Even GOV. is planning to Sell all these reserve to a company on a very low price.
    When Pervez Musharraf was president he gave green signal to embark upon the initiation of work on exploiting energy potential of these coal reserves of Thar under a modern strategy.

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 17:54 #
  31. Anonymous

    Yes, I found this article on Pakistan economy watch.

    There are some other articles as well. I am trying to compile some info. as I get time.

    Please suggest how we can run a campaign for Thar coal reserves, so government listen????

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 18:05 #
  32. @shikra
    'But Petroleum lobby , is very strong in Pakistan and they are against any other means of power generation except for the imported oil.'
    ===========================================================
    Exactly, and this is the same lobby playing a major hurddle in the path towards 'Renewable forms of energy sources'.

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 18:06 #
  33. Anonymous

    Its not just Pakistan. Petroleum lobby is very powerful all over the world. Pakistan is a little baby when it comes to the issue but awami taqat sab kuch baha kay lay jaati hai!

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 18:10 #
  34. @bsobaid
    Than the most logical first step is to identify this 'Petromeum lobby' in Pakistan; is headed by who and others that make up this lobby.

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 18:17 #
  35. Anonymous

    Petroleum lobby is not headed in Pakistan. Petroleum lobby is too big and huge for any Pakistani.

    We can gather facts and keep an eye on the progress and run a campaign to raise awareness.

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 18:38 #
  36. shahzad1924

    @shikra

    "Just 2% usage of Thar Coal Can Produce 20,000 Mega Watts of Electricity for next 40Years ,without any single Second of Load Shedding."

    do you have a reference for this? i have heard this from a very trusted source but i wasn't able to confirm the reference from him. could you please do that?

    @semirza

    "Exactly, and this is the same lobby playing a major hurddle in the path towards 'Renewable forms of energy sources'."

    which again strengthens my point that the real solution is to get rid of the capitalist system that lets these lobbies do what they want.

    khair, lets stick to the discussion :)

    Posted 5 years ago on 10 Aug 2009 22:03 #
  37. Lets continue...

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 14:23 #
  38. shahzad1924

    okay, we need more data.

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 22:14 #
  39. shahzad1924

    the latest on thar is a joint venture between Sindh govt and Engro Pakistan on 60-40 basis;

    http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/12-Aug-2009/Thar-coal-project-to-generate-over-1000MW-power

    the important points in the news item are;

    1) "The spade work for the project is expected to be completed in 18 to 24 months and the work on the project would be initiated afterwards."

    2) "Briefing the media shortly after the Cabinet meeting, Sindh Minister for Information Shazia Marri said under the joint venture 1.1 billion dollars will be invested on the mining side and 2.2 billion dollars on the power side of the project. The project, she said, will generate around 600 to 1000 Megawatt electricity per annum."

    the rest is PPP blah blah.

    can someone get more info on this?

    Posted 5 years ago on 17 Aug 2009 23:01 #
  40. Beenai

    same topic was started by ZA ...i am merging that topic here and closing the other thread .
    #

    ZA
    Member

    The main reason for non development of Thar coal is lack of leadership and technical capacity within the governmental system and an inability to admit it. Musharaff did sincerely try and so is the present govt however there needs to be a paradigm shift in our thinking in order to exploit this valuable yet difficult to mine resource. Lignite coal is used all over the world including Germany, Greece and Turkey for power generation. Thar coal heating value at 10% moisture content is over 1000 BTU/lb, estimated costs for a 6 million ton/year mine and a 1000 MW power plant is approximately $2 Billion, so $12 Billion investment in Thar coal will generate 6,000 MW electricity (Pakistan's current deficit is 3000MW) and create 18,000 new direct jobs plus several thousands in indirect jobs. Bhasha Dam in comparison will create 4500 MW at a cost of $12.6 Billion. Instead of blaming the government let us all be more constructive and educate ourselves on the subject so that we can do something about this and not listen to nay sayers.

    JJ Khan
    Member

    ZA,

    Good post. There is dependency on initial investment/development, but unfortunately we don't control where we can & where we can't spend money. We are being micro managed in all departments of life.

    We need freedom first and then we can easily sort out all problems, thanks to Allah swt blessings on this land!

    #

    Red-Scorpion
    Member

    @ZA

    I've heard somewhere that Jins can creat infinite amount of energy !
    I also understand that we have some Ulma like Mufti Rafi Usmani who also teaches to Jins, why can't Govt. of Pakistan request Mr. Usmani to ask Jins to produce energy ???

    Beenai
    Moderator

    @ZA,
    our country was never been short of resources ...
    neither for human resource ...

    only where it lacks is the true leadership ...

    which can lead us to unite for everything...
    to dig out gems ...

    to create energy....

    to take a giant leap ahead .

    bsobaid
    Member

    There has been many threads over this topic. Moderator please merge.

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:11 #
  41. Beenai

    @bsobaid ,
    as per your wish...
    happy?

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 4:15 #
  42. Beenai

    i think ...we need to be serious about energy .
    before its too late .

    Posted 5 years ago on 18 Aug 2009 7:40 #
  43. shahzad1924

    10,000 MW to be generated through Thar coal reserves by 2020
    http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=24045

    Posted 5 years ago on 23 Aug 2009 11:07 #
  44. shahzad1924

    i just heard this from someone that the Thar coal reserves have 6% sulphur which is very high from the standards. how true is that? can anyone refer to some kind of report that discusses this issue?

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 0:02 #
  45. hariskhan

    Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Interesting topic. Is it just about thar coal or is it also about power generation in general

    I believe Pakistan has at least 7 different ways of generating electricity

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 0:40 #
  46. shahzad1924

    well, this thread was specifically started for the thar coal reserves. but feel free to start another thread for discussing power generation in general (i remember there used to be one, but i can't recall the title of the thread)

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 0:45 #
  47. I think the basic problem in developing these resources is the capital investment required . Pakistan can't develop / tap these resources at its own and till now , no forigen company has found it economically viable to make an investment into these resources.

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 2:08 #
  48. JJ Khan

    AsifK is right, there is no money to invest in these huge development projects.

    Foreign companies will only be interested to invest if you sell these fields to them. They will mine the resources, process them and sell back to you at international rates!!

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 4:29 #
  49. Beenai

    what is the good option...if u r looking for a house?

    buy a new house ..no matter small one .

    go for a rental house and keep paying rent for the rest of your life?

    same goes for rental power.

    rented power plants wont solve our problem.
    this is a temporary and short term solution.
    indeed a cruel one ,as consumer has to pay extra in terms of electricity bill.

    Posted 5 years ago on 28 Aug 2009 7:17 #
  50. ZA

    A member had a question about sulphur content of Thar coal, some studies have been done and the most comprehensive study was completed in 2004 by an international level consultant this study is very comprehensive. The average sulphur content is around 2% which is not much. It may also be of interest that any amount of sulphur in the coal will be converted into hazardous sulphur dioxide (which causes acid rain) upon burning of coal for power generation and has to be treated to meet international environmental standards. No big deal, its done elsewhere in every coal fired power plant in the world, its just a normal cost of doing business and my estimates in my earlier posting include this feature. Desulphurisation of coal combustion gases results in a valuable byproduct called Gypsum (calcium sulphate) and is an excellent soil additive for improving agriculture yields. Thar coal is a win win for Pakistan, anyway you look at it. Current estimate of Thar coal reserves is 175 Billion tons,at a value of $120/ton the total value of Thar coal resource is over $20 Trillion (US Dollars)while Pakistan's entire foreign debt is about only $60 Billion. This country can not only become energy sufficient but debt free and prosperous from Thar Coal, if only we can dig our heads out of the sand and look at what the world is doing and stop sweating and arguing about small things. 96% of South Africa's electricity is from coal while While China, India and the US is over 50%. Sorry for being technical, anymore questions please feel free to ask.

    Posted 5 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 13:22 #
  51. zjshami

    @ ZA,
    I must admire your efforts to provide very useful information this article.
    Pakistan is a rich country where the people have been forced to live poor.
    Japan became one of the biggest industrialist countries, without such natural resources, just through hard work, honesty and knowledge.

    Posted 5 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 14:06 #
  52. ZA

    JJ
    Yes capital investment is required and we have 2 choices, either we allow foreign companies to initially invest and develop this resource while we collect royalty and of course they will invest only if they can make a profit otherwise why should they,and in doing so it will be misleading to say that we are "selling" out our resources after all would any one of us invest "our money" anywhere say to open a shop in Dubai or elsewhere, take the risk and put in hard work and not expect to benefit from it, of course we will not, and neither will anyone else for us. Sadly the prevailing syndrome in our country is that either our governments as well as the world community as a whole owes us and therefore should provide all goods and services to us without us having to do anything including paying taxes, in all my visits to Pakistan most people (not all) I have met have brazenly told me that their electricity is free because they have direct connections yet they also complain about load shedding, their "servants" are reluctant to walk up to a trash collection point but throw their garbage on the street yet complain about the uncleanliness and so on. The Governments are not without blame but WE the people have to own up to our responsibility and then can we only blame others. That is the shift in thinking that is needed.
    The second choice for developing Thar coal is to create private public sector partnerships and raise capital that way in any case private sector will reap some financial benefits otherwise why should they do it, problem again is with our national Psyche, every one cries foul if an industry is privatized and the public sector cannot deliver, we have seen in Russia and elsewhere so we are caught between a rock and a hard place as they say, hopefully the country can find a balance and get the job done

    Posted 5 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 14:39 #
  53. shahzad1924

    ZA, thanks alot for the info.

    can you please give a reference to the study done by the international level consultant?

    Posted 5 years ago on 02 Sep 2009 20:49 #
  54. ZA

    Shazad1924
    the study was done by RWE power, a firm that had been engaged by the the government of Pakistan at the time,the study and report is on file and with effort can be obtained from either the Govt. of Sindh, govt of Pakistan or the Company, I have read it and fully understand the contents because I am a proffessional in the field, hope it answers your question, as an aside, even though I live in the US, I have lived in Sindh and worked in in Thar Desert and I am totally familiar with all the aspects of development of the coal resource therefore what I say is not conjecture but is based on experience and understanding.

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 15:57 #
  55. @ZA
    I commend your professional approach and explanation of facts regarding Thar coal project specially the desulphurisation of coal with gypsum as one of the byproducts.Appreciated.Keep up the good work.

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:02 #
  56. Anonymous

    Thank you ZA for very useful information you provided. You correctly mentioned environmental hazards related to coal mining. I believe current government is probably already working on it. Recently they made a world record of planting maximum number of trees in a given amount of time in interior sindh. Not sure if it was near Thar though. Planting trees in desert is a very costly undertaking indeed.

    You also said

    "This country can not only become energy sufficient but debt free and prosperous from Thar Coal"

    I am a little concious being overly optimist. Coal mining is an expensive project. Whether it is cost effective is another and more important question. I hope someone can provide us with a cost comparison chart and also cost breakdown if possible.

    I rememebr Musharraf did some serious work over Thar project and involved Chinese but they did'nt settle on a price and probably the price that Chinese company calculated was'nt making this whole project cost effective.

    I also read in newspaper couple of days ago Qaim Ali Shah saying work on project has already been started. The news story did'nt have much details in it but the CM sounded very upbeat.

    Found an interesting government of Sindh document that states 2012 as the completion date.

    http://www.sindhpnd.gov.pk/documents/PC1s/Industries/Technical%20Assistance.pdf

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 16:33 #
  57. Fahim23

    @bsobaid

    Planting was done at the coastal areas of Thatta! Physical work on Thar coal project is progressing.

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 17:42 #
  58. Following news indicate that Pakistan Government is indeed serious about the Thar reserves:

    Pakistan invites Chinese company for gasification of coal in Sindh
    Wednesday, 26 Aug 2009
    APP reported that Mr Asif Ali Zardari president of Pakistan invited a private Chinese company to visit Pakistan and examine the possibility of coal gasification in Sindh for fertilizers manufacturing and power production.

    In a meeting here with President of the company Mr Wang Shihong, he said that their venture in Pakistan will not only be beneficial to the company but also for Pakistan’s economy. The company will send its delegation next month to Pakistan in consultation with government of Sindh. It has already made coal gas plants in Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and 6 other countries.

    (Sourced from App.com)

    This and some other posts about Thar Coal on this link:

    http://www.blogcatalog.com/search.frame.php?term=thar+coal&id=eba7afa4ee9d86b4a0f9ca970cf31df8

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 19:21 #
  59. shahzad1924

    thank you a lot ZA!

    your input here is much appreciated.

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 21:48 #
  60. JJ Khan

    ZA,

    Sadly the prevailing syndrome in our country is that either our governments as well as the world community as a whole owes us and therefore should provide all goods and services to us without us having to do anything including paying taxes

    Dear, your technical & field knowledge in this domain is appreciated, but I do not agree with your political solution. Your analogy of opening up a shop in dubai with investment in proven reserves of natural resource is flawed.

    Natural resources of a land are not property of government, so government doesn't have authority to sell these to foreign multinationals. When I said authority I am not referring to laws of colonial rule that we inherited, but according to Islamic Economic principals.

    Natural resources such as energy, water, jungles etc are property of PUBLIC and hence the benefit of these should go to public. Unfortunately currently all strategic energy resources are controlled in few hands and they are looting this public wealth (talking globally).

    Objective of current govt would be to secure initial payment or call it bribe to sell the rights to foreign company. These looters don't care about development or good of people because actual benefit will come may be in next government time, hence credit going to next govt too. They want to take the initial payment, pocket it in overseas banks and then go in exile -just repeat of history again after again.

    Again your technical expertise is appreciated, but political solutions is where I differ.

    Thanks-

    Posted 5 years ago on 03 Sep 2009 22:18 #

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