Islam is against any and all priesthood.
That is established beyond question.
So then why Mullahs ?
Let us hear from you on this very current subject.
PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues
What is wrong with the Mullahs ?
(180 posts)-
shimatoree
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 14:27 # -
Anwer Kamal
MemberHe is actually illiterate. He presumes that due to his bear power is his right,
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 14:35 # -
There is nothing wrong with Mullah's, but like Chris rock once said about the predicament of the black people :
On one side, there's black people. On the other, you've got niggers. The niggers have got to go. I love black people, but I hate niggers. I am tired of niggers. Tired, tired, tired."
-Chris Rock
This full clip is pure gold (STRONG LANGUAGE):
In short, "The 'niggersi have got to go.!"
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 14:45 # -
SufiSoul
MemberWhy Heart sergeon?
Why Dertmetologists?
Why Arthopadic?
Why Chemical engineer?
Why electrical engineer?
etc etc etcDespite the fact that some Doctors kill,some doctors charge high fees,some doctors involved in crimes with their Lady Patients..
Some engineers even cannot detact faults and cause the PLANE to Crash with hundreds of Passengers to die..
Some chemical/electrical engineers are caused in Indian state og Bhopal,a leakage of dangerous GASES and uptill now more than 150,000 are died due to environmental problems in that area and still 500,000 are waiting to die due to cancer in that area..Can any one suggests that Doctors/engineers profession should be BANNED once for ALL.....????
The same weight carries the QUESTION of this thread why MULLAHS......
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 15:52 # -
gv
Member@sufisoul
because they don't belong (i.e. read the question carefully p.s there is no priesthood in islam)
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 15:53 # -
SufiSoul
MemberSo then why Mullahs ?
I commented over this one here..
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 15:56 # -
gv
MemberBecause most people are sheep and are happy to follow someone who appears to know what he is talking about and appears more educated then them..
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 15:58 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberThere is no priesthood in Islam. Agreed.
As I said earlier Mullah is neither Islamic nor Arabic name. Just like the word Pathan became synonymous with Pushtoons during British days. Pathan came from Baton meaning "unruly". Some words are stuck to us out of ignorance. Having said that there is nothing wrong if the "Mullah" is fulfilling the role of a Imam. Who are the ones resisting the might of the combined super powers with all their high tech gadgets? Are they Harvard or Oxford grads? Or local University grads? No. They are madrasas grads called Mullahs. Mullah Omar must be credited for his role in galvanizing the madrasa grads and taking on the super powers of the day to a standstill
If we had learned Arabic just like we learned the colonial legacy- English, we would have been able to root out such words and replaced them with the language of the Jannah. Some skeptics will argue about that but they don't know that you could not do research in Europe until 19th century if you did not know Arabic. Medical encyclopedia was in Arabic for Europeans until 19th century.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:02 # -
Sufi
"Can any one suggests that Doctors/engineers profession should be BANNED once for ALL.....????
The same weight carries the QUESTION of this thread why MULLAHS......"
...so you agree that Mullaism is a profession.......
Fair enough!
I'll go a step further and say that Doctors, and Engineers sell their skills and mullahs sell their religion.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:09 # -
zia m
MemberI think their real job is to do Ijtehad but they got entangled in sectarianism.They are rendered irrelevant.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:09 # -
@SufiSoul: There is no priesthood, and the onus is on EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM to understand _and submit_ voluntarily, based on personal understanding and personal struggle (intellectual and spiritual).
If there are no intermediaries, then What are all these Mullah's doing? NOPE!
On the path to truth,
Search yourself.
Read yourself.
Understand yourself.
Submit or Deny yourself.If you run after mullah's because you're too lazy, then why bother? just become an atheist. The creator of the universe, if you think one exits, shan't be affected one bit.
Also, some growths are benign, and some are cancerous. The cancerous growths have to be excised or they can destroy and kill "the body".
P.S. Mullah(ism) is not equal to Islam. Although that is the first tenet of Mullahism. Equating opposition to them to opposition of Islam itself.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:10 # -
shimatoree
MemberPosted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:13 # -
Hussain Farooqui
MemberThere was nothing wrong with the Mullahs till the time when foreign aid started pouring into masjids and maderesas. Saudi Arabia, Iran and many other countries started putting aid into our religious institutions and that was how all the religious affairs of our society fell into the hands of corrupted Mullahs.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:16 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberDoctors/Engineers sell their skills. The concept of selling skills was developed by Kuffar. Most Muslim physicians historically treated the sick especially the poor free of charge. Ever heard of Shifakhana in Islamic world where the patients were treated free of charge. Please read Allama Iqbal's Shifa Khana e Hijaz. Mullahs teach religion free of charge to ignorant ones. Paid Mullahs are generally patronised by Government to tow their line.
Remember learning is a fard Ain for a adult Muslim. It is not duty of a Mullah or Imam to teach the Jahils but as we have inherited the secular materialistic education devoid of Almighty some of us have to rely on Mullah to gain knowledge.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:18 # -
SufiSoul
MemberI'll go a step further and say that Doctors, and Engineers sell their skills and mullahs sell their religion......
Religion is never something like that TO BE ALLOWED TO SELL IT...
Whenever some one attempted to sell it and GET FINANCIAL REWARDS as a result he is always under attack from the Rivals..
If you look around their is a standard that NO ONE LISTENS TO SUCH MULLAH INVOLVED IN SUCH ACTIVITIES..
People only regard the MULLAHS and listen to them who MEETS their STANDARDS...e.gGovt of Pakistan is always in search to get Fatwa Against Taliban from RESPECTED/KNOWLEDGEABLE CLASS OF MULLAHS of deoband cuz govt knows that if these FEW PERSONALITIES are giving Fatwa AGainst Taliban,TTP will no Longer be kept themselves Alive in Pakistan..
But Govt cannot get it......Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:20 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberWe never heard in our history from the days of Prophet SAS that certain professions like the doctors and engineers were the elite of a Muslim society like we have today. They were ordinary citizens getting meagre income for survival from the bait al maal and never charged exhorbitant sum for their services as the doctors charge these days.
Mullah bashing gained "popularity" during British colonial days. British considered Mullah for obvious reason to be its biggest enemy as he was the one who spearheaded the cry of freedom. That Mullah bashing is continuing to this day by the secular educated scum of the society.
The biggest mass murderers in recent history were all secular educated from Hitler to Sharon to Bush.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:24 # -
"http://crazyhorse.pkpolitics.com/2009/09/23/heretics-diatribe/'
Pure BS...Someones really needs to read his religion
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:29 # -
it is really interesting ... people get paid ... or terrified ... or pressurized in any way to come up and settle scores for MQM ... as soon as pervaiz rasheed said some words against MQM .. this story came up ....
in 2007 a very insider bureaucrat in PM house told me with authority and affirmation that MQM was get paid in 3 heavy suitcases from PM house to carry out 12th may incident in Karachi .... there was left no doubt when Mushraf said that their will be no investigation for 12th may ...
like wise ... who can forget the game of bori band dead bodies ....
as soon as ST got on top of its rifts with MQM whole of its cream was killed in a bomb blast ... i would stay in a doubt untill govt. started portraying it sectarian clash ... so the thing made this clear that MQM did this after taking bigs into confidence ... and now they were trying to hide things ...
killing is their game ... killing is their hobby ... they simply kill one who gets in odds with them ... Now they are blaming NS for every now and then .. that he made things against them .... in other words using their bads against their opponents .. very clever indeed .. but dangerous for themselves as well... because if one scam of these falls ... they would be naked on the roads ...Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:30 # -
zia m
MemberMullahs can play a very positive role.
Take a look--http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/religious-tolerance-in-islam
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:48 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
What .. the! .. heck! is 'priesthood' ? Define 'priesthood'.
I need information from Islam either accepting or rejecting this concept.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:52 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberHK, It is heirarchy. You can't go to God directly. You need a heirarchical set up. Priests acts as intermediary between humans and God. The concept of Pope itself is embedded in priesthood. Christians go to priests for repentance and request "blessing" from God through the priest very much like the our ignorant ones who go to saints for blessing. It is tantamount to Shirk and is unpardonable sin as per Quran and Hadith.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 16:57 # -
sfqureshi
MemberThe real trouble maker on earth and specially in Pakistan, they are all MULLAHS who are in politics, but Mullahs who are preaching Islam and limited in Masjids are very much different.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 17:04 # -
shimatoree
MemberIt was my intetion to stimulate discussion on the Mullah who is much maligned today in the Muslim societies.
So far most of the discussions/ comments have been on the political aspects.
Perhaps someone would like to comment as the impact the Mullahs have had on the evolution of the Muslim society from the days of the Prophet(PBUH) to the 21st century and what effect they WILL have on the future.
Please also we would like to rquest comments upon the future of the Mullah himself remaining as a key factor in impacting the future Muslim society.For the same of full disclosure- if any Mullah is commenting- they should declare themsleves.
Thank you.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 17:33 # -
shimatoree
MemberAR-
quote from you
"he was the one who spearheaded the cry of freedom."
Are you trying to say that Jinnah , Sir Sayed Ahmad Khan, Shaukat Ali and Mohammad Ali , Tipu Sultan , Gen. Bakht Khan were Mullahs ?
If not- then pray tell us a little about the Mullahs who fought for Freedom against the British.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 19:56 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberThere were lot of "Mullahs" who embraced martydom in their Jihad against British. Syed Ahmed is one of them.
It is the story of a man named Syed Ahmed. He was born in Rai Breli in 1786. He was a deeply religious man. His life mission was to usher in, once again, the glorious Islamic past. He wanted to establish an Islamic state on the pattern of the early Caliphate, first in the subcontinent and then, possibly, in the rest of the world. To achieve this he decided to wage a jihad against the “infidels” who ruled the subcontinent then. Thus, he became one of the earliest, if not the first, native Jihadi of the subcontinent.
This was the time when the Mughal rule in India had virtually ceased to exist. The Mughal Empire stretched barely beyond the present city of Delhi. The dominant powers of the time were the British Empire, represented by the East India Company, which controlled most of the Northern India, the Marhatta Empire to the south, the Sikh Empire in the north-west and Kashmir, and hundreds of minor kings, maharajas and Nawabs in various parts of the land.
Syed Ahmed understood that it was not possible to fight the British. They were better organized, better equipped and in firm control of most of the northern India. He, therefore, decided to emigrate to what is today the NWFP in Pakistan and wage a jihad from there. After beating the Sikhs in the NWFP and Kashmir, he imagined, he could then take on the British. But he was shaheed in the battle against Sikhs at Balakot. But others followed him and continued the Jihad against British and their agents.
This excerpt from a research paper by Helen James entitled:
THE ASSASSINATION OF LORD MAYO: THE 'FIRST' JIHADIn February 1872, Lord Mayo, Governor-General of India, was assassinated at the penal settlement of Port Blair in the Andaman Islands whilst paying a vice-regal visit to the Province of British Burma. His assassin, a Pathan from North West India who had been in the Peshawar police, made no attempt to escape.
On 8 February 1872, the Viceroy of India, Lord Mayo, was assassinated at Hopetown, Port Blair, Andaman Islands, by a convict, a Pathan from the North West Frontier Province (NWFP) of India named Sher Ali (or Shere Ali Khan). The event shocked British India. It was entirely unexpected, and yet, given the context of the Wahhabi incitement of the 1857 Indian Mutiny, India's 'First War of Independence', and the recent stabbing murder on 20 September 1871 of the Acting Chief Justice in Calcutta, John Norman, by a Wahhabi follower, a certain Abdoolah, it might have been expected that the Government of India should have been alert to the possibility of such a disaster recurring, especially since the trials in India of leading Wahhabis found to be preaching jihad and violent overthrow of the colonial government
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 20:38 # -
achtung
Membershimatoree bhai
there is no impact the Mullahs have on the evolution of the Muslim society from the days of the Prophet(PBUH) to the 21st century. effect of mulla on the future of muslims seem disasterous.
mullas are in every mohalla masjid. here is what they do and what they should have done.
-what they do
do imamat of namaz
give jumma khutba to support there respective religious parties.
criticize other sects and political parties.
make appeal for chandas
read nikah, do namaze-janaza, etc-what they should do
work for unity and brotherhood of muslims in there areas
see if poor in the area taken care of
make people aware of there social responsibilities.
tell people not to lie, not to do fraud, not to use bad language.
tell people to obey there parents
tell people to behave well with women and respect them
tell people to protect minorities.
tell people to be loyal to state
tell people to keep environment clean
tell people to be tolerant
tell people to get education
etc.etc.i never saw a mulla preaching for haqooqul ibaad.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 21:27 # -
Bravo achtung. Well spotted, well put. Let's see if anyone can say it better.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 21:40 # -
Abdul Rahman
Memberachtung bhai, It was "Mullah" that gave light to Europe in middle ages. I can easily say that any practicing Muslim following the Quran and Sunnah will be stereo typed and dubbed "mullah" aka fundamentalist these days as it has become fashion for the so called educated ones to bash Mullah, a trend inherited from colonialists.
Here is the contribution of the "Mullah" as per Carly Fiorina, ex CEO HP and aspiring to be Governor of California these days. BTW, she made this remarks after 9/11. This is displayed in some American embassies in Muslim countries. I saw the photograph with that excerpt in American Embassy in Jakarta.
There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.
This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.
When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.
Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. Leaders like Suleiman contributed to our notions of tolerance and civic leadership. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from his example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.
This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 21:42 # -
achtung
Membershukria mirza ghalib bhai. zarra nawazi hy aap kee.
abdul rehman bhai
agar aap bura na manein to arz hy keh aap ney jo kutch bhi kaha woh tou manind-e 'pidrum sultan bood' hy.
sawal phir wohi paida hota hy keh jo light hamaray mohtarim puraney mullaon ney europe ko light dey kar kiye, hamari mojoda mullaoon ki fouj dar mouj abb hamein kion nahee daity? shayad iss liye keh wo dunyawi aloom ko thukra chukay hein?
neem hakeem, khatraey jaan
neem mulla, khatraey eimaanmay be, shimatoree bhai, this is answer to your query.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 22:00 # -
Abdul Rahman
MemberNahi Bade Bhai, Aisa nahi hai
Wo duniyai ilm ko thukrae nahi hai.
What is needed is to integrate secular education with Islamic ulum. There is no dualism in Islam. The early Muslims propelled to glory due to the integration of those sciences. We can still get there if you "islamize" the sciences which are at present based on bandar ki aulad secular education system aka theory of evolution.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 22:16 # -
achtung
Memberislamize the sciences? !
meray bhai, kissi ko islamize karnay ki zaroorat nahee hy. sirif apnay aap ko islamize karney ki zaroorat hy.
sorry for getting off topic.
Posted 1 year ago on 24 Jul 2010 22:23 # -
@Abdul Rahman: "It was "Mullah" that gave light to Europe in middle ages. "
COUGH!! COUGH! COUGH!!!
The "light" to Europe went through the works of the Arab and Muslim scholars (Not Mullah's) at the end of the Spanish rule and there was a very specific period in the City of Toledo where the Muslim/Jewish scholars translated the libraries in Arabic/Greek to latin.
That is the specific historical moment which Europe can trace it's "renaissance" to. At least that is my generalized impression.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/when-moors-ruled-europe/
or
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-768956312207897325
None of these people were "Mullah's" per se. They were scholars.And I think most of these scholars were hounded by the "mullah's" of the day for their "excesses".
It could be that there was a time when very learned person was called "Mullah". However , it came to pass that every tom/****/harry started calling themselves as "Mullah" It has an equivalent in our own times. Any idiot can start calling themselves a "Doctor" based on a fake phd degree.
If Mullah was a designation, like Doctor, Engineer, then it would make sense. Right now, "mullah" is a state of mind. A regressive, reactionary, narrow minded mentatlity.
Mullah is a tendency in a certain class which likes to take advantage of their position by using religion as an excuse for usurpation of power. It has nothing to do with having a beard or being a god fearing Muslim or even being a "fundamentalist".
Today's Mullah wants to have the same role that the Jewish priest or the Christian priest has. The west gives this role to them without an issue (because they're use to it in their own culture)... and accepts them as spokes-people of Muslims. The fact is that these people are just a vocal minority. No-one appointed these people as spokespeople of Muslims, but the Mullah class is fine with it because they get the power to "represent" Muslims ... and that's exactly what they want.
It's about lust for power (which, IIRC, is the first criterion for disqualification, were one to implement an "Islamic" system of political representation)
I would define Mullahism as "A Lust for political power divorced from any spirituality, which is cynically couched in a language of service to Islam."
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 0:13 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member""Right now, "mullah" is a state of mind. A regressive, reactionary, narrow minded mentatlity.""
Not quite. A mullah next door (Mullah Omar) is giving lessons in art of warfare, diplomacy, morality, sociology and freedom to the combined barbarians of the so called civilized world. There is nothing they can do although they have mustered the latest gadgets in their military and political arsenal. Like it or not, the triumph of Mullahism is staring in the eys of the pathetic losers gathered around the mountains of Afghanistan.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 0:23 # -
NNL
memberCan anyone define Mullah ?
MG and Shimatoree and others can you define what you mean Mullah.
PS MG sorry boss i know i havent responded to your question in the other forum. Literally short on time these days. I will posting them shortly.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 0:27 # -
shimatoree
MemberOne of the reasons that I had wished to talk about this was--
The impact the Mullahs have had on the intellectual discourse of the Muslims over the last 1300 years.
Let us accept that the Islamic Civilization was on top of the world in science and thought- What role the Mullahs played in that. And why did the Muslims not continue with their progress on and on like the Europeans have done for the past 500 years and seemed to be continuing their dominance.
I would suggest that the intellectually constricting effect of the Mullah who claimed his legitimacy from Religion and in essence prevented FREE thought-
( which is essential for creativity). The Mullah became the censor board for any and every thought process- what was to be allowed and what was to be banned. This happened at all levels- to the extent that the rulers came to realize that the Mullah could deliver support for them when required and in return they provided the Mullah the support to force through their own dogma.The control thus exercised caused the Muslim society to degenerate into a collection of debating societies which were discussing such important issues as Menstrual periods and the imprisonment and incarceration of women.
If we take one incident which demolished the Islamic Empire- the fall of Baghdad- what were the discussions going on in Baghdad while the Mongols were preparing to attack and who were the prime movers in those discussions- you guessed it- the Mullahs.
The world is building Airbus 380s and F-16s and our young people-
( some of them anyway) are not being taught to think.It was as though there is a one mile race and you are 500 yards behind and you stop running and are still being told by your coach that you will win.
It is this constricting effect on the thinking that the Mullah system has caused that is the reason why the Muslims are where they.
We must teach our children to think. If we do that- then the Mullah system with disappear by itself.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 0:49 # -
Abdul Rahman
Member""And why did the Muslims not continue with their progress on and on like the Europeans have done for the past 500 years and seemed to be continuing their dominance.""
Simple. Muslims abandoned and turn their backs on the driving force that propelled the discoveries in science. All the major scientific discoveries were done by Muslim pioneers who were first and foremost practicing Muslims who used the divine Book and Hadith as the basic source. They combined revelation and observations as the guiding mechanism. Europe in turn set aside the religious dogmas that were interfering with the material progress. Hence the persecution of likes of Galileo. Muslims never had that kind of problems of dualism as Quran and scientific discoveries were compatible and there was nothing in Quran that contradicted the scientific discoveries. Europe advance was however restricted to materialistic domain devoid of divinity and morality. And that materalistic progress came at the expense of devouring the resources of planet at unprecedented scale. That also led to rivalry among themselves and led to disastrous world wars and colonialism, and lately environmental catstrophe which the humans have never seen before. It is blessing in disguise that Muslims were not part of that rat race. Let's not get baffled by that scientifically "advanced" Western civilization which is in fact in throes of death as it is self destructive. That is a chance for Muslims again to guide humanity out of certain demise as Islam has the intrinsic capabilities to address the problems of mankind. I will quote Murad Hoffman: Please read his Book- Islam the alternative
Let us now take a good look at the record of that marvelous, self-appointed center of rationality, the enlightened Western world. Since the 18th century, in contrast to the high ideals pronounced and exported, what one discovers in terms of actual behavior is highly disturbing: Slave-trading, extermination of native populations, apartheid and colonialism -100's of millions killed; two savage world wars-56 million killed ; Stalinist massacres-29 million killed and the Nazi holocaust-6 million ; ethnic (in reality, religious) cleansing in Bosnia, Chechnya, Kosova and atomic warfare against civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
These disasters were the bloodiest the world has ever seen. But even if Western people were not at war with each other, they have behaved violently against nature: against animals, plants and even minerals-to the point that the destruction of resources and environmental disasters like air pollution threaten the survival of mankind. Add the ongoing Gulf of Mexico catastrophe.
None of the bloody excesses I mentioned took place in the Muslim world; and yet the West, in spite of such a record, has the nerve to ask the rest of the world to follow its example and to deny not only the existence, but also the possibility, of an alternative.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 1:07 # -
shimatoree
MemberDefinition of a Mullah
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 1:51 # -
And don't miss this gem:
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 2:24 # -
@AR: The discussion is about one simple fact, ie; what is wrong with the Mullahs. What is wrong with them is their actions at a class level. Talk of the atrocities of the west or fanciful nasim-hijazi like explanations of what happened to the glory of Muslims are counter-productive tangents that only serve to distract from the discussion at hand.
I'll tell you what happened to Muslims and their empire: Mullahs.
And that's what's wrong with this professional religious class with pretensions to priesthood and delusions of sacred grandeur (without an ounce of humility or religious understanding to back any of it up.)
@NNL: I tried above ...
I would define Mullahism as "A Lust for political power divorced from any spirituality, which is cynically couched in a language of service to Islam."
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 2:27 # -
theimrannasir
MemberThere is a hell of difference between mullah and Islamic Scholars. If the question is just about stereo types of Pakistani cleric then there is no getting away from the fact that mullahs are really those who are eating into the glory of Islam. But if there is placed no discrimination between mullah and Islamic scholars then sorry to say maligning mullahs would be tantamount to malign Islam. Because there are myriad of Islamic scholars who are , in fact, the saviors of Islam and have the ability to present Islam as a code of life.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 3:07 # -
shimatoree
Membertheimrannasir
The point of difference you raise is valid.
But the question that has been raised here is-
What is wrong with the mullah ?
Your answer is as good as anyone else's.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 5:11 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@achtung: There's a limit to lying. But that is for sane people. You know no limits. You lie with impunity, without any reprisals.
ALL I see you doing on this forum, in this community, is to engage in;
(1) leg pulling
(2) mud-slinging
(3) maligning others without reason
(4) accusing others
(5) spreading propaganda
(6) spreading deceit
(7) spreading wrong information
(8) etc etcYou mimic a virus like attitude that is destroying our! peace of mind, our tranquility.
What have you done for the people of this forum/community, this nation to deserve the credibility for accusing other people ?
You haven't done one bit. You have no credibility. You can't point fingers at others.
I request Admin/Moderators to take practical measures, to make sure you take part in this community constructively. If you don't, if you continue with your nuisance, then I request Admin/Moderators to ban you permanently from this community/forum.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 8:37 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@shimatoree: This 'censoring' MULLAH is 'accused' of needs to be explained. This notion is mistakenly used by many without 'understanding' what it means.
One has to realize, one has to accept the fact that human beings in large numbers do not experience intellectual revolution in one instant. This is a gradual process. This process takes time.
I personally believe, this (censorship) happened at a time when Muslims had suffered great losses due to consistent wars, mostly likely at the hands of British Colonials or Crusaders + Hindus' who colluded with them. Muslims lost a lot of their intellectual cream to these wars, in this era.
I also believe, many intellectuals in the Muslim world also lost their 'livelihood' as a result of these wars.
In such a circumstance, when our intellectual cream had been wiped out, there was little chance for those who were left to differentiate between right and wrong. It was very difficult for them to give Muslims a direction to move in.
Why ? Because they didn't have;
(1) the knowledge / the know-how
(2) the level of 'eeman' (spiritual belief in ALLAH ALMIGHTY)
(3) the experience in/of life that others who had been lost, had
(4) the freedom/independence in livelihood
(5) the freedom that others before them, hadIn such a circumstance, they entered into a 'damage control' mode.
In 'damage control' mode, for a civilization, especially when intellectuals are in a panic, the first thing they do is to maintain cohesion within the civilization. That is the first objective. This is the first notion that hits the mind. This had to be achieved, at every cost.
Once a certain level of stability had been achieved, then MULLAH or the intellectuals start the 're-building process'.
Muslims have to understand the fact that no Ijtehad is allowed at the time of war or instability.
I believe, this was the reason behind 'censorship' that MULLAH is accused of.
The second reason was, since intellectual cream of Muslims had been wiped out, it was more than likely the occupier (i.e., British Colonials) would succeed in spreading their own 'culture', their own 'values' within our ranks. The problem with that was, their culture, their values are based on outright;
(1) 'injustice'
(2) 'deception'
(3) 'deceit'
(4) 'treachery'
(5) 'uncontrolled lust'
(6) etc etcIt would 'corrupt' our society, our community, like a wanton virus.
Since intellectuals or MULLAHs of that period never saw stability return to our civilization;
(1) owing to the fact that there was relentless attacks from British Colonial Empire with their 'unlimited amount of money/resource' concept
(2) plus there was many decades of 'slavery' or 'rule' at the hands of British Colonials
(3) Muslims lost their;
(a) livelihood / financial freedom
(b) political freedom
(c) judicial freedom
(d) social freedom(4) there was an enduring amount of traitors, opportunists, criminals, within our ranks who gained 'power'
MULLAH or the remaining intellectuals weren't able to rebuild our civilization at the time.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 8:41 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@shimatoree: Attaining Pakistan was not a result of our struggle. It was a gift by ALLAH ALMIGHTY to Muslims as a result of our collective pledge to ALLAH ALMIGHTY of implementing 'Islami Nizam'.
As Dr. Israr explains it, British Colonials were in a weakened state after WW I. It was the result of WW I that they were 'loosing control' over their outer most colonies, which included the Indian subcontinent.
Go through the;
Thread: Video: Ummat-e-Muslimah Ka Maazi, Haal aur Mustaqbil
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 9:40 # -
theimrannasir
MemberDr Israr, Dr Nike, Moulana Moudoodi, Javed Ahmmad Ghamdi, Khalid Zaheer, Abu Alkalam Azaad, Abu Al Hassan Nadvi, Syed Qutab and some others who have different perspective over Isam can’t be included in the array of Mullahs. They have tried their best to elucidate Islam in its letter and spirit. But the majority of clerics who consider them selves as Ulmaha e Kram are pious and principled but they have not been able to project Islam as a contemporary and modern religion which can encompasses all aspects of life and life related problems. Many of them present Islam as a very complicated and orthodox religion which seems impractical and improbable to act upon.
I have always wondered if we Muslims have a one religion because every one has his own mind set and school of thought towards Islam.
• We haven’t been able to determine a single way to offer prayer.
• We haven’t been able to determine a single jurisprudence to resolve religious matters.
• We are mixed up regarding actual Islam; our religion is divided into many sects because of our different perspective over the religion.
• We don’t offer prayer behind each other, believing that we are right and others are wrong.
• We are not agreed upon the same Islamic History.
It’s a long list which shows our confusions regarding our religion. But all this mess was because of not having modern education and enlightened moderation. It’s refreshing to see that now all the Islamic groups have felt the dire need of modern education and they have managed to impart a nice complexion of religious and modern education, which is hoped to change the mind set of new generation. Furthermore, Media has begun to play its pleasant role in this direction which is causing a tolerance, and forbearance in our past rigged mindsets. People used to be so inflexible regarding religion that they were at daggers drawn on trifles, but now there is a positive perceptible change that they listen to new interpretations and the people with different views.
So I’m optimistic that “mulaiat” is most likely to recede into distance soon.Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 10:38 # -
@hariskhan: "Attaining Pakistan was not a result of our struggle. It was a gift by ALLAH ALMIGHTY to Muslims as a result of our collective pledge to ALLAH ALMIGHTY of implementing 'Islami Nizam'."
This is the most delusional statement I have heard in a long time and one which negates and nullifies the torment of millions who laid down their lives for the division of British India.
Obviously the guy "ALLAH ALMIGHTY" chose to gift this country to didn't get the memo because his Aug 11th address seems to have blatantly omitted this 'pledge to ALLAH ALMIGHTY of implementing "Islami Nizam". (sshhhhh maybe "ALLAH ALMIGHTY" told him to keep it a theekrit!!! shhhhh!!!)
These are the bizarre ideas propagated by the Mullahs, and not just any Mullahs, but those (like JI) who opposed Pakistan, called it Kafiristan, called Jinnah names like "Kafir-e-Azam", and when it became fait accompli, decided to move operations there anyways and deceitfully appropriated the country for their own version of "Islami Nizam" (a system where the Mullah class would be dominant) anyways.
This also highlights the cynical, self serving attitude that has, and still permeates the Mullah class. They call their personal wishes the wishes of "Allah Almighty" and force them violently down people's throats.If anyone dares to protest, repress them violently and call it the "WILL OF ALLAH".
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 12:39 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@Ghost of TK: Yes, I agree. Our people did put up some struggle for attaining Pakistan.
However, 'moving' to Pakistan was 'not' the struggle that helped 'create' Pakistan. You are wrongfully attributing people moving to Pakistan as if it was 'the' struggle.
Do you believe an imperial power, which 'conquered' sub-continent would accept creation of Pakistan under normal circumstances ?
--------------------------------------------------------
Most of that which JI said (not that which is wrongfully attributed to people in JI), has come true in the last 60+ years. Or has it not ?
Do you know ?
(1) Muslims were not allowed to pray Namaz in Pakistan, just after partition
It was very difficult for Muslims to pray Namaz just after partition. It was with the 'tehreek' of IJT that it became possible for Muslims to excersize/practice Islam.
(2) people running Army, Politics, Education institutions, Pakistan's economy, businesses, etc etc subscribe to secularism, rather than Islam
(3) Islami Nizam has not been implemented in Pakistan since it was created
(4) Islam's laws, principles, standards, guidelines, ways, have not been implemented in Pakistan since it was created
(5) Most people of power in Pakistan committed treason with Islam, with Muslims. Most of them subscribe to secularism
(6) There is no law inside Pakistan, no code of conduct
(7) There are two kinds of laws. One for the rich. One for the poor. Criminals, traitors, murderers, mass murderers, rapists, are all allowed to go scott free
(8) etc etc
I can go on and on and on.
Why do you blame people from JI if they that which is the truth ? if they are successfully able to project that which 'can' or 'will' happen among Muslims ?
People in JI have 2 kinds of knowledge, that most people don't have.
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 12:45 # -
@ HK
>> but those (like JI) who opposed Pakistan, called it Kafiristan, called Jinnah names like "Kafir-e-Azam".
HK - Everything that which JI said has come true in the last 60+ years. Or has it not ? So, why do you blame people of JI if they say the truth ?
You still defending that bs?
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 12:51 # -
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@UmeR: This is not BS. How is it, BS ? This is reality as a result of decisions, actions of our people. Is it not ?
Why don't you face up to reality ?
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 12:55 # -
HK, So you still believe:
Pakistan = Kafirstan
Quaid-e-Azam = Kafir-e-Azam???
Posted 1 year ago on 25 Jul 2010 12:57 #
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