PKPolitics Discuss » Political Parties

What the Opposition should have done?

(75 posts)
  1. Adonis

    Opponents of PML-N often accuse it of being a "friendly opposition". They allege that PML-N did not play its role as the opposition party and shares the blame for misrule of PPP government.

    While some of these allegations may be dismissed as mere political point scoring, there do appear to be people who genuinely seem to believe that the role of opposition is different from what PML-N has been doing for the last four years. This thread is addressed to these critics. Enough political sloganeering is being done on other threads, so instead of expressions of blind hatred or blind faith, I would request some unbiased comments from those who are familiar with political science.

    What do you think is the role of an opposition party? What steps PML-N should have taken as the opposition party and it did not take?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 6:07 #
  2. Anadil Butt

    Y PMLn didn't elect Hashmi as a candidate of President( after Shujat and Fazul-Rahman's offer) cuz Nawaz wanted to c Zardari as President and wished Zardari would do corruption so his(Nawaz) chances would b more bright in next election..... So in this way he played trick but his trick foiled by IK popularity.......

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 6:21 #
  3. siddiqi73

    ^^^ Where is it documented that Shujaat or Mulla diesel made such an offer to PML-N? Don't read too much as what these two are yapping from their backsides after four years. We need to dig up news and analysis from 2008 and deduce if a proposal was floated to make JH President and whose candidature would have been supported by PML-Q as well.

    The rest is all based upon one's observation and interpretation of events and could be different from others.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 6:30 #
  4. Adonis

    But how would Javed Hashmi have been elected? Have Ch. Shujaat or Maulana Fazl ur Rehman ever said they would have supported Hashmi as president? Even if they had supported Hashmi, it would have given him only 152 votes out of 340 in the National Assembly, with little effect in most provinces. Zardari would have still become president as support of MQM and ANP had ensured that.

    PML-N nominated Justice Saeed uz Zaman Siddiqui as he was a non-political personality and all parties could have supported him. Furthermore, he was from middle class and was also an urdu speaking Pakistani from karachi. This could have made it easy for MQM to support Siddiqui as MQM always claimed to be against fuedals and for middle class. So Justice Siddiqui was the best candidate to defeat Zardari.

    But in spite of canvassing by PML-N, both Q league and MQM refused to support this neutral candidate. If anyone should get the blame for electing Zaradari as president, it should be them.

    What else you think PML-N should have done as the main opposition party in the assembly?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 6:43 #
  5. EasyGo

    That seems to be a fairly good start of a thread.

    One thing which is usually taken against N League is promoting and projecting their relatives e.g. Hamza Shahbaz/Maryam Nawaz etc. How would that be justified?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 7:02 #
  6. Adonis

    There is no justification for promotion of Hamza Shahbaz and Maryam Nawaz. Unlike PPP, Muslim League is not a hereditary party. Historically, it has remain divided in groups but has not been inherited from one person to his children or other family members. Even Quaid-i-Azam did not allow his sister Fatima Jinnah to get involved in party activities while he was alive.

    It may be the personal wish of Sharif family that their next generation comes into politics and takes over the reigns of the party based on a "will", but the party workers may never accept this as hereditary politics is not the history or culture of Muslim League. However, if Hamza and Maryam spend their time as members and mid level leaders of the party and gradually rise through the ranks based on performance, not many will oppose it. After all, political families are quite common all over the world.

    Good thing is that their is some realization of this and in spite of the media exposure, this "next generation" is not given a decision making position in the party.

    But I agree that this is a very valid concern. However, it relates more to the future of the party than the performance of PML-N as an opposition party during the last 4 years.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 7:17 #
  7. siddiqi73

    Furthermore, its the masses by and large who are more enamoured and fascinated with the name brand than anything else. The names Bhutto and Sharif sell more than the ideology of the institutes they preside over.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 7:25 #
  8. badar

    Like it or not this a normal Phenomenon in the region and is not restricted to Pakistan only. Look at India, Sri Lank, BD etc. Even in US there are Kennedies, Bush family, Clintons and many more.
    In Pakistan no political party can claim to be free from this phenomenon, be it PMLs, PPP, JUI, MQM (they celebrate the birthday of Altaf's 6/7 yrs' old daughter every year, with all the fidelity), JI (Qazi's daughter was in the last assembly), PTI (JH went to it along with memooona and would be accommodated).

    One raison d'etre is that they have no choice but to continue it in the family lest it divides into factions. In majority of the cases when the party head etc is not decided by the family factor, there is no guarantee that the new leaderwill not make it a family affair.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 8:22 #
  9. Adonis

    Come on guys.

    We hear criticism on PML-N's role as opposition every day.

    Please tell us what they should have done and did not do?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 8:34 #
  10. EasyGo

    What about demands of certain factions to force the Govt. for interim/early elections. Why N League didn't look like taking any serious move for this. After all it is not against the spirit of democracy.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 9:18 #
  11. Hussain Farooqui

    During the 4 years tenure of the present PPP regime, the opposition just played the game of blackmailers.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 9:27 #
  12. siddiqi73

    @Easygo Bhai,

    You might as well also spell out as to who those "Certain Factions" are/were. An erudite fella like you should know that these elements are/were out of parliament. Furthermore, why should the onus or a responsibility be fixed on NS and PML-N only when there are dozens of other parties inside the parliament which in one way or the other are not only supporting PPP but are least bothered about interim or early elections.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 9:49 #
  13. Adonis

    Interim/early elections are certainly not against democracy or constitution. But one needs to assess how much leverage the opposition has in forcing govt to go for early elections.

    The most straight forward way of forcing early elections is if the govt allies leave it and the governing alliance does not enjoy majority in the assembly. This was not possible without MQM and now with Q league in govt, even MQM's departure will not affect the govt.

    One could argue that PML-N should have brought MQM to its side and force elections. But what price would have to be paid to buy MQM? MQM would have certainly wanted more clout and ministries than it is getting from PPP. Would that be good for the country and would that be a principled option? Certainly not.

    The second option for forcing early elections is said to be resignations from assemblies. Lets say that PML-N had resigned from assemblies in 2010. This would have meant bye-elections on 71 NA seats and provincial elections in Punjab. What was stopping the govt from holding these elections? The law clearly allows it. If bye elections were held and govt had managed to get its supporters elected in case of opposition boycott, no matter how low the turn out had been, legally and constitutionally such elections would have been valid. In that case, governing alliance would have got 2-3rd majority and do whatever it wanted with the constitution.

    The 3rd option for forcing the govt to go for early elections would be street agitation and a campaign of civil disobedience. This is a desperate measure and can bring about a national economy collapse. Months of rioting and agitation would have a devastating effect on poor daily wagers. Besides, it could have paved way for military takeover on the pretext that politicians can not behave and are at each other's throats.

    Given the non-practicality of all these options, how could PML-N "force" the govt to go for early elections?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 10:01 #
  14. siddiqi73

    @Adonis,

    And it is the 3rd and the only option those "Certain Elements" were trying to exploit. Mass agitation, unrest, anarchy giving the justification for a military takeover and installing a caretaker set-up populated by those "elements" who had originally envisaged the capitulation of this system to their favour and then going to win the controlled election through rigging and manipulation to the detriment of both PPP and PML-N.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 10:06 #
  15. chaudaru80

    @ADONIS.
    opposition ko yeh kerna chahiye tha k wo 15th march 2009 ko long na kerti aur nawaz sharif bhi underground ho jate taa k judges restore na hatay. jaisa k janab sangsaar khan underground ho gaye thea.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 10:56 #
  16. bsobaid

    Noon League's participation in constitutional amendments is a positive work.

    It should have presented solutions of power shortage and feul prices and inflation in assembly and had blackmailed government and used all sorts of tactics to ensure government adopt them.
    Noon-League should also have united all opposition parties but it miserably failed to d so and resorted on making lotas instead out of its false egos.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 13:49 #
  17. siddiqi73

    @Obaid,

    Buddy, care to illuminate on the other opposition parties in the assembly? Would You seriously contemplate for a second that the henchmen of Altaf Bobby would sit in opposition.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 14:19 #
  18. bsobaid

    @sid,

    If Zardari can get Qatil league to sit with him then why not Noon can get opposition parties to sit with them.

    Noon is pretty hopeless with forming coalitions.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 14:28 #
  19. siddiqi73

    @obaid,

    At what cost.....when OBL fiasco was unraveling on 2nd May...these sell-out traitors in PPP and Q-League under the watchful eyes of Shuja Pasha, were wining and dining while the US JSOG was screwing our soverignity left, right and centre. Furthermore, Q-League had been a covert partner of Zardari and PPP ever since the NRO was signed mutually between the concerned parties. Both of them also played a crucial role during the Governor rule in Punjab and hence it was a foregone conclusion that both would be openly making out with each other on any given day.

    As for the Q-League, it has ceased to exist as a party and breathing its last at the moment.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 14:49 #
  20. asif65

    What happend with go zardari go?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 15:03 #
  21. chaudaru80

    @asif65
    wohi hua hai jo IK ko long march wale din hua tha . waisy by the way imran us din kahan chup gaya tha ???????

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 15:14 #
  22. Adonis

    PML-N did present several solutions to the power crisis. the first energy conference was conducted at he request of Punjab govt in 2010 in which several steps were agreed to alleviate the crisis. Unfortunately the govt never implemented these steps.

    PML-N also gave its 10 point proposals for revitalization of economy and offered unconditional support to the govt if it agreed to these proposals. The govt never did.

    It was PML-N who ferociously opposed NRO and RGST and these were never passed by the parliament.

    As for uniting all opposition parties, there was hardly another opposition party in the parliament till last year when JUI-F left the govt. Q-league was in covert alliance with the govt since jan 2009 which led to its eventual inclusion in govt. So PML-N was virtually the only opposition party in assembly.

    The role of the opposition is to point out bad performance of govt, to oppose measures that it considers detrimental to public interest and to offer alternative solutions to problems. PML-N has done it throughout the last 4 years.

    Again, for those who accuse PML-N of not playing the proper role of the govt, please tell me what it should have done differently?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:00 #
  23. bsobaid

    @Adonis

    iss saadgi pay kaun naa marr jaey aae khuda!

    Bhai jaan, you cant just say opposition provided a proposal but government did not act, so what can the opposition do???

    Well, this is the role of opposition. Blackmail government and make its life terrible to ensure its proposals are met. If you expect any government of the world will just obediently act on opposition's proposals then I will say what ghalib had said..

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:05 #
  24. kash01

    The PML N has played an effective role as an opposition,pointing out the wrong policies and other failures of the government from time to time.However the critics of PML N are not satisfied and they want the oppostion to launch a civil disobedience campaign to dislodge the govt.no matter if the entire democratic systen is derailed.PML N realizes that the derailment of the democratic system can land the country in deeper troubles besides depriving it of the chance to come to power through elections.I think the PML N has adopted a correct stance,it did not have any other choice.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:08 #
  25. Dusky

    Where I see PMLN failing as official opposition is when SC are taking somoto actions over corruption cases of the present day PPP government, but don't see opposition playing any lead role to held them accountable in upper or lower house.

    Latest are rental power plants: former PPP member and sitting Q league minister took the case to the courts, but no presence from official opposition.

    When was the last time they raise their voice over real issues in assembly? Name me one case of mega corruption or scandal where opposition is the whistle blower?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:14 #
  26. Adonis

    And how can an opposition make life miserable for the govt? By shouting in the assembly and refusing to let the proceedings continue until its demands are met? Is this practical or possible to do every day on all issues? Obviously not.

    This strategy was adopted on critical issues like NRO, RGST, Load shedding or fuel price hike. But opposition can not permanently blackmail a govt that does not need its votes. It can not do a shouting match in assembly everyday.

    If the opposition does such a thing then immediately the media starts blaming it for bringing chaos to the country and for bringing bad name to democracy. In this day and age when public perceptions are shaped by media, opposition has to be very careful not to repeat the acts of 1990s.

    Incidentally, opposition party is in opposition precisely because people have not given it the right to govern. so how can it force the government to follow its agenda?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:21 #
  27. insaftak

    Take a consistent stance. Lets Take the PCNS example.

    PML(N) decides to send their representative to the committee and they sign and endorse the committee's recommendation then they come out and tkae a complete U-turn and disown the recommendation.

    Their Next step is of boycotting the committee meeting followed by a phone call from Gilani and now they heading back to the parliamentary committee.

    A huge Facepalm at this Icecream/ Deer in the headlights opposition.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:25 #
  28. Adonis

    @ Dusky

    The co-petitioner in rental power case was Khwaja Asif of PML-N. It was PML-N that went to court on the issues of NRO and NICL.

    Before going to court, PML-N vociferously criticized the government on all these issues and did not let NRO pass by the assembly.

    There was not a single corruption issue on which PML-N did not raise voice on the assembly floor. The opposition can not force the govt on gun point, it can only speak up in the assembly and it has always done that.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 16:27 #
  29. Dusky

    PMLN is a co-signer in NRO, should we go back in history of how and where Saudis/Harrari/Americans get involve in case??

    Rental power is solely because of Faisal Salah Hayat, even Chaudries were in courts for the same case before they become part of government. No representation in courts from PMLN. They never held Raja Perviz accountable in assembly for the same case.

    In NICL case, it was SC who went after Monis elahi not the PMLN, they started making noises after the scandal broke out, not that they break the scandal.

    Since when opposition responsibility limited to “raise voice” only? True opposition role is to held government accountable for their wrong doings. When opposition limits it's role to "raising voice" only, then its call "friendly opposition" as they are not doing anything more then lip service.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 17:14 #
  30. EasyGo

    Thanks @Adonis and @Siddiqi Bhai, I just didn't name any faction to keep the thread focused to its intent.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 18:31 #
  31. siddiqi73

    >>>>>What happend with go zardari go?<<<<<

    What happened with "Hakumat Hatao and Mujh Hakumat mein Lao Tehreek?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 18:37 #
  32. siddiqi73

    >>>> A huge Facepalm at this Icecream/ Deer in the headlights opposition.<<<

    Give your palms a rest my dear. We are also aware of an opposition figure who sat in the parliament presided by a military dictator for 5 years representing his Tanga Party, earned each and every penny of the remuneration package entitled to an MNA and very conveniently resigned from the same parliament just three months shy of 2008 elections.....Why can't I remember the name of this dude?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 18:41 #
  33. Adonis

    @ Dusky

    The rental power decision is available at Supreme Court of Pakistan website and Khawaja Asif's name is on the first page as the petitioner.

    You have said that "Since when opposition responsibility limited to “raise voice” only? True opposition role is to held government accountable for their wrong doings."

    Can you please elaborate how a "true" opposition can hold government accountable?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 19:19 #
  34. Dusky

    Not denying Khawaja Asif's name on petition, but that was not persuaded by the "opposition" as you are stating. It was more of personal vendetta then collective effort.

    To give you an example from where I am residing, Conservative Canadian government is pushing to buy F 35 jets for their air force from last 3/4 years as sole contract from LHM, but opposition wants to go for open tender, opposition raise the issue on floor and ask for a open discussion, they encounter with numbers and facts and their defence critique challenge government on all forums. Opposition persuaded the auditor general to look into the matter as this was sole contract without true competition.
    Result: Federal government which was stubborn on the deal is now back tracking and talking about looking into other options as well. Now auditor general raises the concerns, government would not be able to get away with sole contract though they have more then absolute majority.

    Another example from India: Anna Hazare struggle against corruption, sole man started a movement and opposition formed an alliance with him and persuaded the government to bow down and change the law to tackle the government corruption. All non violent and for the betterment of the people.

    I would love to see that PMLN going after the corrupt ministers, asking to form parliamentary commission to look into the matters important for people and state of Pakistan. No single parliamentary committee on downfall of PIA, Steel mills, Railway, hajj scandal and many more. What SC is doing, opposition suppose to be doing at first place and then courts suppose to come in picture. Had the opposition worked proactively to hold government accountable it would not be that easy for PPP and allies to get away from this crap so easily. And trust me, they would have gain ton of respect and support from common man. But when sh!t hit the fan for common man and he seems a friendly opposition, he put them in same category... one in power and other is waiting in line patiently to get in power.

    End of my rant....

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 20:25 #
  35. Adonis

    But PML-N did exactly the same as the examples you are giving.

    The public accounts committee headed by Ch. Nisar got the headlines for recovering Rs 115 billion. But PML-N played a very active role in all committees of the parliament.

    The National Assembly's standing committee on railways headed by PML-N's Sardar Ayaz Sadiq uncovered massive fraud in Railways and publicized it. When after repeated requests, Govt took no action then he took this issue to the supreme court.

    The Hajj scandal was uncovered by Bilal Yasin of PML-N in Religious affairs Committee and again when govt took no action, his report was given to the media and then supreme court intervened.

    The rental power issue was raised by Khawaja Asif first in the committee and then he went to the court. It was not his personal vendetta and the lawyer was arranged by PML-N.

    All the National Assembly record, including debates and bills, is available on the National Assembly website. PML-N's active participation in legislative business and its strident criticism on govt actions is well documented in this.

    After speaking on the floor of the house, the next thing that an opposition can do is to bring the govt wrong doings in public domain by using print and electronic media. Again, PML-N actively used this medium. Its leaders wrote several opinion pieces in newspapers and actively participated in media debates highlighting govt corruption, criticizing policies and offering alternatives.

    Furthermore, PML-N has been holding public rallies and protests on issues like corruption and bad governance at least since 2009.

    In addition to public and media pressure, PML-N actively knocked the door of judiciary to stop govt misdeeds.

    Given that PML-N has done every thing that any other opposition party in any democratic country could have done, how can it be termed as "friendly" opposition?

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 20:59 #
  36. short life endless plans

    @Adonis

    My complements for initiating this very meaningful thread and then providing good sound arguments.

    Posted 2 years ago on 04 Apr 2012 23:43 #
  37. sipahi

    @Adonis

    Purpose of Opposition is to be a strong opposition, not to join hands with other big party to form a government.

    Knowing what PML (N) leadership knew about AZ and company, they should have under NO CONDITIONS joined with PPP to form government at either Federal level or in Punjab.

    This is the biggest mistake PML (N) did, which resulted in mess that has lasted for more than 4 years. Thus, indirectly they are responsible for the current situation.

    A strong opposition right from beginning would have benefitted Pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 1:09 #
  38. Adonis

    @ Sipahi

    PML-N joined federal govt with PPP as no party was in a position to form govt. In that case, Parvez Musharraf could have dissolved National Assembly immediately and stayed on as President. PML-N joined PPP Govt as part of an agreement that promised restoration of judges and removal of Musharraf. When PPP did not fulfil those promises within the pre-agreed time period of two months, PML-N left the coalition immediately. Since then, PML-N has been consistently opposing the PP government strongly.

    However, keeping PPP as junior coalition partner in Punjab was a mistake. Instead of repeatedly asking them to resign voluntarily, PPP ministers should have been sacked immediately after PML-N left the federal cabinet. The only justification given by PML-N is that democracy had just returned to the country and they did not want to increase the political polarization especially as they had control over Punjab and did not allow PPP ministers to indulge in any corruption.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 7:15 #
  39. Dusky

    @Adonis:

    Read the examples I quoted and the examples you quoted.

    Difference is, PMLN failed to restrict the government in wrong doings. They ask SC to carry out their duties, If SC has to look into every scandal e.g. Hajj, rental power, NILC and many more then what is the role of the opposition? Did they bring motions against any of the corrupt ministers? Did they hold them accountable in national assembly for the wrong doings? Did they deliver as opposition?

    Only time I praised opposition was the fake degree case, but then that was sidetracked by opposition party as well and the "muk mukka" continues....

    In democracies opposition is part of the government, they propose parallel budgets, policies and they counter the government on issues. For lip service, we have media who do a far better job then opposition in highlighting government wrong doings.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 17:11 #
  40. insaftak

    PML(N)'s deadly silence on Zardari's visit to India is also mind boggling. At least raise a question about the agenda of meeting between Manmohan and Zardari.

    Itnni Meethi Opposition allah America, India, Aur Pakistan ke saab dusmonnoon ko de.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 17:14 #
  41. Adonis

    @ insaftak

    I guess the "deadly silence" you are observing is because you have shut your eyes and ears.

    All the channels are flashing Ch. Nisar's speech in the National Assembly criticizing Zardari's visit and asking him to divulge the agenda of the visit.

    But of course Ilzamis live in a la la land in which no news from the real world reaches. So perhaps in your fantasies you are imagining Imran Khan's strident criticism on Zardari's India trip. But of course Imran Khan can only criticize his favorite country in some one's imagination, never in real life.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 17:35 #
  42. Adonis

    @ Dusky

    Please read again the examples I have quoted.

    PML-N raised these issues in standing committees, then resorted to protesting in the Assembly, then took these up in Media and on the streets. As a last resort PML-N went to courts.

    Can you seriously tell me that Canadian opposition did more than that?

    What else you want PML-N to do? to come out with guns in their hands and kill everyone from the govt?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 17:40 #
  43. Dusky

    Yes, they did more then that. They restricted the purchase of planes without help of courts. They made that happen as opposition party. They build consensus among people about what is right and wrong for the country. They bring the facts and figure out. They challenged government on logical and imperial ground. They did all this in assembly and in public, they did not run to supreme court to shrug their responsibility as opposition party, neither they ducked out saying our job was limited to raise the voice in assembly. They deliver what they think is in better Canadian interest.

    Indian opposition did bring and get pass the Jan Lokpal Bill without involving courts. They did the legislation and put government in a situation where they had no way out to curb the corruption law. They build consensus among people and members of parliament considering what is in better Indian interest, not that they were worried about what will happen when they will come in power.

    Did PMLN tried to shut the government on any of such issues? In any democracy you never hear an opposition leader is putting his unconditional support for the government. But NS/PMLN did that. That’s what paves the way for PPP to continue their filth for last four years or so.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 17:54 #
  44. Adonis

    I guess you actually did not hear the "unconditional" support statement. Nawaz Sharif clearly said that if PPP agrees to fully implement the COD, eliminates military's role from civil affairs and as a result military tries to topple the government unconstitutionally, then the Govt will have unconditional support of PML-N.

    Is this commendable or condemnable?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:00 #
  45. Dusky

    "implement the COD, eliminates military's role from civil affairs and as a result military tries to topple the government unconstitutionally, then the Govt will have unconditional support of PML-N."

    Question is: Did PPP deliver what NS asked for unconditional support?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:03 #
  46. Adonis

    In canada, Opposition did not do anything more than PML-N has done. Any back tracking by the govt is not only the result of opposition's protests but also severe criticism from media, public pressure and near mutiny by its own MPs.

    In Pakistan PML-N did everything it could. If media finds Veena Malik more important than NICL scandal, if public and political parties considers such scandals as normal, if govt MPs are ore loyal to their party than the country, how is it PML-N's fault?

    And PML-N always went to courts only as a last resort when it had already tried all other options. Whats wrong with that?

    In India, Anna hazare was not part of the opposition party. He was leading a social movement and his movement has also failed to achieve its objectives as the Lok Pal bill ended up becoming something much different from what he had beeen campaigning for.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:07 #
  47. Adonis

    Question is: Did PPP deliver what NS asked for unconditional support?

    Answer: No. This is why it never got PML-N's unconditional support.

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:08 #
  48. Dusky

    Hence, they never tried to bring the government down on issues where they knew they can have their say to rectify the problems, curb the government corruption.
    So what we call this?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:13 #
  49. Dusky

    Nah maray dost, I wish PMLN have done quarter of what Indian or Canadian opposition did for the national issues. Their politics does not evolve around their families or getting the turn but more around national interest.

    Had Pakistani opposition parties been not in "muk muka" politics, we were in better shape as people of Pakistan. And don't blame public, they came out when the issue was right. Example: CJ IK restoration, though NS steal IK blanket on issue, but public did came out in scores once leadership agree on issue. If they were doing same on other issues, they would have got the same response from public.

    You are wrong about Canadian conservative government’s own members mutiny in case of planes, majority of them were onboard with PM.
    In case of Log Pal bill, a non visible social movement get momentum only when it gets support from opposition parties. Opposition parties see an opening to pressurise the government to change it course and they did that. Can we say the same for our opposition party?

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:26 #
  50. bsobaid

  51. Dusky

    Yep, liberals are one seat (yes, one seat short) of majority and no one crossed the floor yet:) So the government need support of opposition to pass the budget. In exchange opposition wants to include their demands in budget, in this case cap the public service executives salaries and higher taxes for people making over half mill per year.

    Quite a "muk muka"...

    Posted 2 years ago on 05 Apr 2012 18:52 #
  52. Adonis

    And how was PML-N supposed to try to bring the govt down? It has 92 seats in the Assembly and needs 79 more to dislodge the government. That means getting support of MQM, ANP and Q-league. Obviously PML-N was not willing to get involved in a bidding war as it was not willing to give the political bribes for example what MQM wanted.

    The funny thing is that instead of blaming the coalition partners, MQM, ANP and Q-League who have given full support to the government and have supported every corrupt deed of PPP, it has become fashionable to denigrate PML-N instead.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 4:46 #
  53. Dusky

    And who helped PPP forming the government very first day? Who was the first coalition partner of current day PPP government?

    Didn't same coalition partners were with PPP when CJ get restored? How come PPP government bow down on PMLN and PTI pressure?

    First it was public, now its coalition partners. Stop blaming each and every thing under the sun beside PMLN.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 4:57 #
  54. Adonis

    So you think that MQM, ANP and Q-league deserve no blame?

    The continuation of PPP govt has nothing to do with the help of these coalition partners?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 5:02 #
  55. Dusky

    Are we talking about "friendly opposition" / failure of PMLN as opposition party or the corruption of PPP and the coalition partners?

    I failed to comprehend, please drive me the correlation between the failure of PMLN as opposition party in regards to corruption of PPP and coalition partners.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 5:12 #
  56. Adonis

    The correlation is that PML-N is being blamed for not trying to bring down the corrupt govt when that corrupt govt has survived because of its coalition partners, not because of PML-N.

    How an opposition party with 92 members can dislodge the govt?

    And please do not say by resigning or by doing street protests as these have already been discussed in this thread earlier.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 5:25 #
  57. Dusky

    This PPP regime survived because of PMLN support on day one. All other coalition partners joined only after PMLN departure from the government. Even after sitting in opposition PMLN failed to work as a true opposition party knowing what kind of a person Zardari is.

    Secondly, why not street protest? If they were kosher and successful for the restoration of CJ, if they are kosher now for electricity crisis in Punjab, then why not on corruption of PPP and coalition partners? Why not on inflation? Why not on deterioration law and order?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 5:33 #
  58. Adonis

    So if PML-N supported PPP govt for the first 2 months and then withdrew its support, therefore it is justified to blame it for continuation of PPP govt for the next 4 years?

    And I think you have not been able to watch Pakistani channels or read Pakistani newspapers much during the last couple of years. This is why you seem to have missed PML-N's street protests on issues like Haj scandal, rental power, NICL etc.

    True that no other long march happened like the one undertaken for restoration of judges in 2009. But I refuse to accept that it was PML-N's responsibility to do long march on each and every issue. The judges issue had been festering for two years. Thousands of protests took place before the long march. PML-N contested the 2008 elections with the pledge that it would get the judges reinstated. It was the issue of survival of the constitution and PML-N even at the time of long march that it did not want to topple the govt. Almost all the nation was united on the issue of restoration of judges and was willing to come out of their homes. This was never the situation on any corruption scandal.

    The bad governance of any govt is ultimately punished by the people in elections. It is never considered the duty of an opposition to try to topple the govt through long marches if the opposition considers it incompetent.

    Whoever is constitutionally elected by the people has a legal right to remain in the govt until it enjoys majority in the assembly. The success of PPP govt in completing its term will be because of those who have maintained the ruling coalition's majority, not because of opposition.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 5:50 #
  59. Dusky

    "But I refuse to accept that it was PML-N's responsibility to do long march on each and every issue."

    Has nothing to do with your acceptance or refusal. It's the responsibility of opposition to activate masses if they can't find a way in parliament. If they fail to do so, they fail as opposition. Period.

    And if elected party has right to stay in power for the tenure despite what they do, then why we have opposition at first place?

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 6:30 #
  60. Adonis

    "And if elected party has right to stay in power for the tenure despite what they do, then why we have opposition at first place?
    ----------------------------------------------------

    Blame democracy for that or the coalition partners. The govt or the ruling coalition is in power because majority of the people voted for it.

    It is not the role of opposition to dislodge the govt at the barrel of the gun. Nowhere in the world any one expects it to do so. Opposition is there to point out the mistakes of the govt and offer solutions. It is up to the people who decide through elections whether they agree with the opposition and bring it in power.

    Seems pretty clear that in spite of doing everything that any opposition party in an established democracy does, PML-N is being called friendly opposition by some because they believe that it should have brought down the govt by hook or crook.

    In view of this new perceived role of opposition, the basic rules and definitions of Political Science must be changed now. According to the new definition, opposition must not let the govt complete its term and even by riots or mutiny, should make sure that the govt goes.

    Posted 2 years ago on 06 Apr 2012 6:49 #

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