Now we all should know, the reason for Democracy\'s internal reasons to fail in our society.
Our society is a MOB, a hujoom, and the only method which will succeed in it is the method demonstrated yesterday in Karachi!
where two or three dako\'s were burned alive.....Every sector of Pakistans civil society appreciated this from makran to gilgit! cause we are a mob!
Lets bring in the MOB rule!
Mulla!
civilisation which we take for granted in the western world is not because these people are somehow more intelligent or just born \\\"civilised\\\" but due to the strong institutions of law and order which exist here. you should go to a walmart on the morning of thanksgiving sale and see how flimsy civilisarion really is lol or just see what happened during katrina when the institutions which maintained law were not there
I agree....codey! i agree....
but mob-izm works for us at least in the matters of punishment for those who do not understand a system....
Mulla!
yeh its a good system until a mob gathers outside your house
never do anything which a mob would gather to fix ....
Mulla!
antimush
Member
@ codefreaq
vaaaa jee.. you are a perfect example of a thick desi !! tell me about it!! and OMG you goo to Walmart!!
still the top ten countries by homicide rate are democratic countries..
south africa brazil india etc etc...
and even amrika type country couldnt maintain laws on its own land durng katrina so how the hell do you expect pakistan like country to have full hard controle when our police military are engaged in war on terror..
Codefreaq,
People also have an understanding and respect for law in the West, they are more civilised, they are not born that way, but thats how they grow up and thats what their social values are, our values and morals and standards are different.
In Pakistan, with the exception of Islamabad, you will never see people even driving in lanes, people cannot make a proper queue, what do you expect.
antimush : thats actually what I was saying as well..maybe understand what someone wrote before replying next time mmkay?
secular : thats a total myth. I have to deal with roadrage everyday and people cheat whenever they know they will not be caught. everyday when i get on the highway there are assholes who drive up behind me and start honking if I dont go above the speed limit and thats too slow for them. after having worked with people of every race and nationality I have realized that civilization is just an illusion standing on strong law enforcement and judicial systems. growing up in a rich and educated family does have influence on ones personality but the wild animal genes are just below the surface and it doesnt take long to bring them out in anyone
I know race is an illusion, but, society isnt.
The society in Pakistan itself has no respect for rules or law,
AccountabilityAdvocate
Member
@Secular_Pakistan:
When was the last time a VIP in the country stood in a queue? The nation is as (if not more)civilized than any society? Don\'t blame the helpless poor and the living missing. Get rid of the rotten culture ruling at the top and the begum sehbas who consider to be above the law!
nobody and no society has respect for rules or law. people are either afraid or not afraid of law. if there was no police nobody would say I wont loot a bank because its not nice. we are all animals some just more desperate then others. thats y we have the concept of hell/heaven in every other religion because if the people know there wont be any consequences of their actions there will be anarchy.everyone rationalizes their actions according to their circumstances .the robbers who got burnt in karachi must have rationalized and justified their actions in their own minds and so did the people who set them on fire. we all have the same capacity of \"evil\" as they displayed .theirs just surfaced because their frustration and absence of law enforcers pushed them past the point where they were not afraid of law and consequences anymore
AccountabilityAdvocate
Member
@codefreaq:
That is why the laws of nature led to the Social Contract (ogf Hobbes, Locke and Rosseau)--where the collective will of the people is expressed and surrendered to the rule of law governed by rights and obligations. And, no one is above the law, not even the \"sovereign\" so selected.
\"Do not do to others as you do not want others to do you\" is the dictum of every religion. Forget for a moment about the reward and punishment concept of Hell and Heaven!
what \"laws of nature\" led to social contract? the only law of nature is survival of fittest
what led to the social contract was the fact that european middle class grew richer then the monarchies and wanted in on the action so they invented new philosophies to get the people to back them. incidentally social contract turned out to be a good thing. btw most of the rennaisance thinkers werent actually atheists
AccountabilityAdvocate
Member
@codefreaq:
Read my post again. The laws of nature (life being nasty, brutish, and short) were indeed unsustainable, Hence, religions came up with explanatory theories of a supreme being and curbing natural instincts. Futher, to curb the temporal powers came the codification of laws under magna cartas. And ultimately, social contract led to Liberty, Equality, and Fraternity!
ok that makes more sense
Dervaish
Member
And why is it that the white man\'s word is always the last on everything, from truth, justice, goodnes, beauty, justice and so on? The world does not start and end with what some Europeans said some time ago, with a crude worldview of a Thomas Hobbes or a Rousseau and their terrible provincialisms paraded as Universal truths by semi-literate, deracinated non-Westerners!
Today, the Western world, or at least its informed segment, is reeling from the reductionist (and crypto racist) axiom-like pronouncements of the fathers of European modernism, like Kant, Hegel and Locke. Kant, the architect of the \"epistemological fallacy\" that reduced the WHY? of being/Being to a mere How?, who helped the European man to forget Being, or wujud (ah! poor Hiedeggar who died on his bed telling us that \"Only God can save us now\"!!) and who, while living in that small Ukranian town of Konnigsberg where he never met a non German during his lifetime, had the hubris to pronounce that the \"noumena\" (things in thesmselves) can never be grasped by man, not just European man, but man as such! It is like saying that \"just because I cannot jump, nobody else can jump either\"! (I am reminded of the Spike Lee flick now, \"White men can\'t jump!\")
---
\"When white people say \"Justice\", they mean \"Just us!\" \' (popular African American saying)
AccountabilityAdvocate
Member
@codefreaq
My pleasure!
AccountabilityAdvocate
Member
@Dervaish:
You have a similar (if not better) prescription for current-day Umma? Saudi Arabia perhaps!
Asif
Blocked
secular__pakistan
The people to whom you are blaming are the same people who voted out the Q-league & Fazlu.
Its the rulers(people in power) who are dirty. Not the people, they are much more better than us(mostly hypocrate, get along with the wind). Being surfing on net doesn\'t mean that we are more qualified in opinion making.
Its the same people who showered Bhutto with unsolicited support & they did so on feb 18. And they would do it in future too, whoever will align his future course of politics with their hopes.
ozzee
Member
jerks need to be unveiled, society is in transition would take time to built up.
nothen wrong with laws or rules, followers need to be more accomodative
have our point of veiw changed from the first time I posted this thread ?
is there any change ?
Mulla!
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
There's trust deficit inside Pakistan, so severe, it cannot be put in words
shahzad1924
member
democracy fails in Pakistan because it goes against the beliefs of the people of Pakistan. the people of Pakistan want Islam and not democracy.
and until and unless we implement Islam, our society would behave like a mob.
zjshami
Member
I guess a majority of Pakistani love Meer Taqi Meer:
meer ke deen o mazhab ka kiya poochte ho tum us ne to
kashqa khaincha dair main betha kab ka tark islam kiya
shahzad1924
Something fails when its experimented/implemented. We haven't got democracy in pakistan to date. Have we ever given a democratic setup for its given term ?
So , how can u say that democracy has failed ? Thats one thing.
Secondly , our democratic process is always corrupted by ARMY like building IJI or PLM-Q or PIF or MMA . So , how can we say that democracy has failed.
shahzad1924
member
well, first of all, what exactly is "democracy implemented in its true sense"? is it the nepotism filled democracy of India or is it the crusader democracy of USA? the notion of "democracy implemented" itself is vague.
secondly, thats exactly what im saying. democracy cannot be implemented in Pakistan because it goes against the beliefs of the people of Pakistan. no matter how much you try, this is not happening. the only thing possible is Islam
why democracy fails in Pakistan?
just coz of a simple reason our army and US both does not want so.
army wants the politicains to be fighting with each other .
and do not improve and refine as a politician in a democracy freindly environment ,which only can be make sure through a consistency in the process of democracy.
army wants democracy not to flourish so they can always have a chance to rule behind the scene and sometimes from front .
they find democracy a threat indeed ,which can weaken the army authority ...army has tasted the sweetness of the whole sole administrative power ...and now they wanna taste it again and again .
they are insecure and thats why don't want democracy to strengthen.
same goes for USA ...USA wants to see Pakistan a weak democracy and a country where political parties have zero powers thus public has zero say .
thats why US always supports a military coup in Pakistan and loves to back dictators like Zia and Mush.
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