Why do we have a soft corner for Afghan Taliban?

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Why do we have a soft corner for Afghan Taliban?

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zenith
Member

Majority of Pakistanis, no matter where they reside, tend to exhibit a tacit support for Afghan taliban. Why?. Despite their brutal rule, and their support for many criminal organizations in Pakistan, why are they viewed favourably by many? We tend to forget their treatment of women and religious minorities. When the same actions were undertaken by the paksitani Taliban,, they were dubbed as terrorists. Is it just hatred for the US that induces support for Afghan Taliban?

This is a very basic question, but I would be thankful if some friends would enlighten us with their views on this.

thanks.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 Nov 2010 20:42 #
truths
Member

as a muslim we support muslims,
kindly write your dispute with afghan talban only afghan talban.
whats wrong in them
we seen goverment of talban can u explain wrong activity of afghan talban
as u say about women treatment, pl read islamic culture law and hadith about women in islam then explain whats difference
pl dont join pak and afghan talban
u talk about any one

Posted 1 year ago on 19 Nov 2010 20:58 #
shirazi
Member

@zenith

Hatred for US is partly the cause. I think major factor is how our media is selling them to masses. There is barely any difference in US hatred and religious philosophies of Afghan and Pakistan Taliban. Our media in tandem with security establishment is selling one as security asset and other as existential threat and that's why we see different reaction from masses.

To me what is bad on this side of Durand line can't be good on other and vice versa. If we argue TTP wants us to take back to stone stage we need to realize Afghan Talibans have already done that to our Afghan brothers and our security agencies have duly supported them in all their heinous crimes.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 Nov 2010 21:55 #
zenith
Member

@ truths

I am trying to understand as to why there is sympathy for them.

According to you, we must support muslims even if there are wrong? Afghan taliban denied women many rights which are guaranteed in Islam like education.

Many criminals in Pakistan used to flee to Afghanistan and sought refuge under the pretext of Islam.

Our dispute of durand line was not resolved by the Afghan Taliban, despite many efforts by Pakistan in the 90s.

Even today, Afghan taliban are bombing civilians. So whats the difference between the Americans and them?

Many Pak taliban groups are doing exactly what the Afghan taliban used to do during their hay days like attacking women education, minorities and promoting limitless weapon trade.

Finally, let me inform you that I in no way approve of the American curs as they are very much responsible for this taliban phenomenon.

Posted 1 year ago on 19 Nov 2010 23:00 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

Afghan Talibans are admirable for their long termed struggle against the American occupation. They have often clarified that they have nothing to do with the terrorist activities of 'Tehrik Tablibans Pakistan'. TTP is just a terrorist outfit of the Salafis.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 6:10 #
truths
Member

zenith
your actual point from your comments is education band for girls,

well in this base you against talban afghan, you say its strong reason?
durand line not resolved in 60 years then why you expected by talban.

i dont understand with hussain farooqui why need more divided islam with strong highlights salafi sufi, point out.

civilians also killed in drone attach, in pak army operation, in target killing in lal mosque why not you compare with it.

pl quote here strong point of talban afghanistan which is against islamic law. as you start topic against talban provide strong reasons.

in interior sindh punjab balochistan and pakhtoonkhawan not allowed education to womens in your own country having same problem then how you blame others.

if its a real point, islamic world can discuss and guide to talban leaders on this issue, i dont agreed to go against talban on only this reason

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 6:40 #
haider3
member

Are you all a bit high on something or the other? The Afghan Resistance are freedom fighters in the name of Islam. And none of you above, with the honourable exceptions of HF and truths, of course, seem to see this point.

You go on and on about women and the Durand Line and I don't know what else and you don't seem to see they are at war with very cruel and powerful invaders who entered their country for no reason at all. I'll bet my bottom dollar all of you above criticising the AR in the most foolish manner live in the US. For you that's paradise on earth. What tremendous self-respect you show!

As for the glib use of "stone age", none of you have the foggiest what that's supposed to mean. Stone age men and women were extraordinary creatures with gifts beyond any we may have acquired and they lived in happiness. It's people like you, brainwashed beyond belief, who know neither the spiritual nor the meaning of true serenity. The Afghan Resistance, on the other hand, do.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 7:12 #
Hussain Farooqui
Member

During Talibans' regime in Afghanistan, Mullah Omer or his companions never disrespected any shrine. As a matter of fact, Mullah Omer often visited the shrines to offer fateha.

It is the Salafi sect whose followers are killing innocent people on shrines.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 7:25 #
truths
Member

what about kashmir resistance plastine resistance chechnya resistance bosnian resistance not involved out sider,

stone age atone age, make strong point against talban your all words as us and allied language who use against islam and make propagangda against islam as talban and muslims are worrier murderer..

tariq aziz hang order reject by iraq president in the base of cristian
iraq president agree to province for cristian

word games by west which brain wash you kind of people with luxury life, wealth shining fashion in eyes of you all here

islam says simple life, ok we are accept as current world status but within islamic law.

malaysia turkey adope west by within limits of islamic law in thease country not having soft corner for talban or muslims, but in pakistan some people having soft corner but mostly adobed western life and culture

every eyes easily cached shining life but not accept life as islamic law because its little difficult, as electronic media of west continue against islam

one word if any body listen 100 times listner coming underpressure to thing about west electronic media still continue against islam but muslims not having sources freely to spread islamic law, therefore we muslim coming under west propaganda,

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 7:31 #
shirazi
Member

@MG & Truths

Your romance with Afghan Taliban is no secret. Would you glorify Pakistan Talibans in same tone? If not, why not? Their modus operandi is not any different than their counter parts in Afghanistan. Their hatred for US and it's allies is second to none.

The resistance movements on both sides has primary weapon in the form of suicide attack. If they blow your markets, your schools, your soldiers, your mosques that makes them terrorist of worst kind, but if Afghan Talibans do the same they are projected as holy warriors. The question of the thread is why this double standard?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 15:20 #
haider3
member

Shirazi, come on. Where's your sense of reality? The Afghan Resistance is fighting people from the west who've taken over their country in a purely neocolonial enterprise. They are the quintessential freedom fighters. Their armed struggle is for the benefit not only of the Muslim world, but the world in its entirety.

Now those who call themselves Pakistani "Taliban" are nothing of the kind. Who they are exactly, I still haven't been able to fathom really. All I do know for sure is they are not the Afghan Resistance. Mullah Omar has disowned them in clear terms. They are not fighting invader enemies. They are fighting against their own people for reasons which I still find hard to grasp.

As for suicide bombers, I'd like to point out that the Afghan Resistance uses them very sparingly. Only when nothing else seems to meet the case. They've grown into a splendid figting unit over time and they wouldn't throw away the lives of their combattants for nothing. Neither are they into bombing the common man of Afghanistan to kingdom come. Look to others for that honour.

No double standards on my part, shirazi. But you seem to be siding nicely with the invaders and that I find sad, indeed.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 15:59 #
semirza
Moderator

They are not fighting invader enemies. They are fighting against their own people for reasons which I still find hard to grasp.

A very large number of these crusaders not fighting any enemy, you will find active on line. The others (Afghan Resistance) are known as Mujahideen in Afghanistan.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:05 #
zenith
Member

Mirza Ghalib & Truths

Why do you assume that if someone criticizes one party, they most certainly side with another? Foreign occupation in Afghanistan is illegal and has ruined afghanistan. US brought back the same level of lawlessness that was the reason of the emrgence of Afghan taliban in the first place. There is no question of having a doubt on this.

But what about the hypocrisy that is so evident in all of us? Afghan Taliban, no matter how brutal they are, they are good as long as they serve our establishment, but when a similar group in pakistan tries to clone the Afghan taliban styled government, it is unacceptable. We all know that some groups in Pakistan taliban are fighting our forces only because they see pakistan as a US stooge. And of course some groups are still supported by our agencies, many still remain out of their control.

As far as Islam is concerned, it is for "ALL TIMES TO COME" which simply translates into the phrase that it is a progressive religion. We can't expect people to live in caves in the modern world just because it used to happen in the olden days.

Finally,in almost every religion education is a right while in Islam it has been declared MANDATORY for all. Now anyone denying that is not just ignorant, but an enemy of this religion.

We must accept that there is no difference amongst Sindi waderas, an MQM terrorists, PML-N gangsters, corrupt generals, WESTERN CLOWNS and Afghan Taliban - IF THEY DENY FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS TO THE PEOPLE.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:28 #
iamsowise
Commenter

We should support all freedom movements( resistance against occupied forces)around the world including Afghan Taliban.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:40 #
haider3
member

zenith, I hate to disagree, but I absolutely must. The Mujahideen, as Mirza Sahib has rightly corrected me above, have nothing whatsoever to do with the other groups you mention. Accept whatever you like, just count me out.

Before you can talk about fundamental rights, you must be alive. The most fundamental right of all, I take it, still remains the human being's life. All the rest of it can be classified under subsidiary luxuries. It is for that life of the Afghan man, woman and child that the Mujahideen are fighting. If you wanted them simply to hand over their country to west forces, then you'll have to turn away disappointed. They'll lay down their lives to the last man rather than accept such a thing against nature. These are the Afghans we're talking about. For heaven's sake wake up and stop attacking what you apparently do not understand.

You seem to be heaping criticism on the Taliban government which was toppled over in 2001. We're talking about the Mujahideen in 2010 as they fight against the richest army in the world. Do open your eyes to the difference.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:51 #
semirza
Moderator

Correct Mirza Ghalib. God Bless you to say this that they are in fact trying to mix up Mujahideen, the freedom fighters with a much later sly creation; The Taliban.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:55 #
semirza
Moderator

Its the Afghan Resistance and their wish to fight off foreign occuping Ghus-bathiya types so as to be free once again and this is exactly what Pakistanis do support. Freedom from all occupation.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 16:59 #
shirazi
Member

@MG & SE Mirza

I don't want to be devil's advocate here but you guys seem to be ignoring the fact that when Gen. Kiyani goes to Pentagon and gets 2B $$$ to crush these radicals how 'd you convince them to distinguish between NATO and Pakistani troops. Privately GHQ allows drones and publically asks for drone technology transfer so that they can use those missiles on militants.

It's hard to find a ruling elite in Muslim world that is not in bed with west. Yet you see jihad on that side of Durand line and fisad on this side. Please tell me how it is not a double standard oozing out of your national and patriotism.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 17:23 #
haider3
member

shirazi, I do see your point. What Gen Kiyani does when he goes to the Pentagon is beyond our understanding. The drone attacks are beyond our understanding. If you're talking from the point of view of the so-called Pakistani "Taliban", I can concur in what you say. How should they be able to tell the difference. But we do and that is why we are not on their side. Specially when they attack the market places and the like which have nothing to do with their present plight.

We only stick up for the Afghan Resistance which by now, believe you me, is composed of all the ethnies in Afghanistan, not just the Pukhtoon. For them the matter is easy. They know exactly who the enemy is, unlike our own in Pakistan whom we also often suspect of being in the pay of foreign forces.

So again, it's not a question of double standards. Let's put it thus: clarity of mission versus confusion of mission.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 17:32 #
zenith
Member

Mirza Ghalib

I guess you didn't read my earlier comment carefully. I in no way endorse an imperial power trying to put its arms around a region that has historically been hostile to every invader, even before Abrhamic religions. The resistance is a fact of history, and no reasonable historian should deny it. Even the Northern Alliance is not entirely happy with NATO's actions today.

The problem, however, is the extremist philosphical thinking of Taliban that has spilled on to our country. My disagreement arises when Afghan Taliban are looked upon as a model muslim government by many. Not even the creators of the Afghan Taliban, on the Pakistani side, totally agree with what Afghan Taliban used to and might do under the pretext of Islam.

The problem is the acceptance of afghan taliban as a comprehensive muslim government by many. They were islamic but not in every respect, and I m sure you would agree with me on this.

This total acceptance of afghan taliban system is also unacceptable to our hypocrite establishment. Thats where Afghan taliban and Pakistani taliban share a common goal when it comes to installing an extremist Government which they tend to describe as in complete accordance with Islam.

I hope you understand the point im trying to make. Shirazi too I think is refering to this aspect.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 17:50 #
shirazi
Member

@MG

I am not sure if confusion in thought and mission is at their (TTP)end or yours. They are very categorical if you are on the side of Washington you can't be sincere to us. It's the people like you who embrace anti-Washington forces in Afghanistan and pro-Washington in Pakistan.

BTW I have no such confusion. I think Afghan Talibans are as bad as Pakistan Talibans. I don't believe in these revolutionary forces. I support change through evolution instead.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:18 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: What is wrong with you ?

Why is it that Muslims all over the world are the only people who 'look' to you as;

(a) criminals
(b) stupid fools
(c) low lives
(d) less educated
(e) less aware
(f) etc etc

?

Why don't I find you raising questions about foreigners, non-Muslims, others, how they conduct themselves, when they, who are other than Muslims are those who;

(a) commit far bigger crimes, more! crimes
(b) break agreements
(c) repeatedly go against their word
(d) repeatedly don't adhere to trade agreements
(e) adhere to no laws
(f) adhere to no code of conduct
(g) spread injustice within their own land
(h) spread injustice all! throughout the globe
(i) commit far bigger crimes, and more in number than that which you 'accuse' Afghan Taliban of

..yet you ignore it, don't raise questions about it. How come ? Why ?

(1) Why shouldn't Pakistanis' (or Muslims all over the world) support Afghan Taliban ?

(2) Despite what! brutal rule from Afghan Taliban ?

Give examples, please ?

(3) Despite their support for what! criminal organizations in Pakistan ?

(4) How do you substantiate your claims about 'Afghan Taliban' treating women, as well as other non-Muslim minorities 'badly' ?

(5) When did the so-called 'Pakistani Taliban' treat women, as well as non-Muslim minorities badly ? How do you substantiate this claim ?

(6) No one 'hates' USA for the 'sake' of 'hating' USA

When will you people get this through that thick head of yours ? People all over the world 'hate' USA because of;

(a) what people from USA are doing all around the world
(b) the injustice which people from USA are spreading all over the world

These people 'live' to 'spread' 'injustice' far and wide, all throughout the globe. That is why one prominent Muslim scholar notes them as one of the 'Yajooj Majooj' (in urdu, arabic) 'people'.

He notes one people from 'Yajooj Majooj' (in urdu, arabic) to be the Europeans, Americans, Britishers, and the second people to be the 'Russians'.

(c) their unconditional support for injustice, for Zionists, Unjust Jews, for their unflinching 'commitment' to spreading crimes, injustice all over the world

(7) What is it with you ?

Again, how do you substantiate your claims in your original post ?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:34 #
toamin
member

i don't think that the soft corner for afhan resistance aka taliban is because of their governance model, the soft corner is only because of their resistance to global order/powers-

poorly armed and simple people resisting 30+ developed & rich countries of the world.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:36 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Salam: BS!

Afghans are fighting the! war for Muslim UMMAH against a foreign aggressor. Their efforts are being financed by Muslims from all around the UMMAH.

Afghanistan is the heart of this region. Whatever happens in Afghanistan has far reaching repercussions all over this region.

How you can forget or not mention this fact ? Why won't you acknowledge the fact that we Muslims have our own World view, our! own! 'Imperial' 'agenda' ?

How can it be that the only thing you can think of, or take out of what is happening in Afghanistan is;

poorly armed and simple people resisting 30+ developed & rich countries of the world.

What nonsense BS!.

I consider this an insult! to Muslims, their efforts, their collective will, their interests, their conduct in this war, their well-being.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:37 #
toamin
member

calm down son, you forget that when taliban were in power, chechen's came to them for help and taliban told them that we are an emirate confined only to the land of afghan same was their response when uzbeks came to them for help against karimov

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:41 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Salam: (1) You worthless, insignificant POS! idiot!, I'm not your son.

Keep in your own place. Keep control over your 'ego'. I see it is 'going' 'out of control'.

(2) They did the right thing, for the time being, at that time

They acted as per Sunnah of Muhammad.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:42 #
haider3
member

Quite clear now, zenith, thanks. I wasn't talking about governments, was I? Just about fighters. What comes after the fighting is anyone's guess. It would be useless to speculate on the matter already. The Taliban government that was could not be considered a model Muslim government in any way. But it was a revolutionary attempt at a different form of governance, that much I grant them straightaway. And it was not based on one of my pet hates, materialism. Ever heard a word about Mullah Omar's Swiss bank accounts or so? I, in any case, haven't so far.

About our own TTP lot, I've said it all along, Pakistan is not Afghanistan. Our system, if ever Islamic, cannot be the one the Taliban government applied between 1994-98 and 2001. We have to introduce a fitting form of governance to accord with our own natural genius.

Shirazi, Perhaps I am confused. It's a likelihood I never dismiss out of hand. But about one thing at least, no confusion whatsoever: I'm as little for Washington in Afghanistan as I am in Islambad. What the TTP have to say about it is quite another matter. I'm not trying to be "sincere" to the TTP. I want strict justice for the Tribal Areas, that's all I want. But that they, a small minority group, should dream of taking over the rest of Pakistan, if indeed they do do so, will come to naught. That, too, is clear to me.

Pakistan is Majbooristan for the time being and the AR hve also recognised this fact. As for your change through evolution, shirazi, that would imply Afghanistan turning into a west colony at long last. More power to you. I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:43 #
toamin
member

well explained MG, i also tried to highlight the difference between their fight and government model, two different subjects-

haris mian.. the word son above is just a figure of speech, i am not trying to own you as my son.. lol

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:47 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Salam: Stop 'clowning around'.

Remain 'focused' on the topic at hand.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:51 #
truths
Member

i observer everybody against talban activities but having soft corner for talban, but some religious branches not like talban

as sunni tehreek, shia, and dawat i islami just only for religious difference

there followers make kind of discussion as above

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 18:53 #
toamin
member

haris khan

again i see a rude, abusive and insulting jamaatia :)

if not for your sake then at least for the sake of your jamaat try to behave like a gentleman?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:02 #
shirazi
Member

@MG

There are 55 or so other Muslim countries that are western colonies. Why can't Afghanistan be one? When revolutionaries stand against western influence in our power corridors you stand against them. But you encourage them to show the light to the rest of the oppressed world from Afghanistan. You want Afghanis and Iranis to pay the cost associated with this resistance and are uncomfortable when Pakistanis are in the middle of heat. This is what I call intellectual dishonesty.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:18 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: People from the west;

(1) commit the most 'rape' in the entire globe i.e., 89,000 'reported' cases for recent years on CIA's website, at their 'fact book' pages

Can you begin to imagine the number of cases that have not been reported ?

yet you don't raise questions on that. Why ?

(2) as the saying goes 'they don't commit crimes', they 'legalize' crimes and then do it

They'v legalized;

(a) gambling
(b) prostitution
(c) crimes
(d) treason
(e) illegal ways of conducting trade
(f) torture
(g) war crimes
(h) manipulation of justice system
(i) financing 'candidates' in their election system
(j) false flag terrorism activities inside their own nation states
(k) false flag terrorism activities all over the world
(l) 'regime change' on a global scale
(m) etc etc, this list is endless

Why would you, a human being note them to be committing crimes, when they have 'legalized' it all through their political system ?

To top it off, they are 'forcefully' spreading their 'fraud' political system (i.e., democracy), through military means, all! throughout the globe.

..yet you don't raise questions on it. Why ?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:20 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: (continued) People from the west;

(3) 'create' 'money' out of 'thin air', backed by 'nothing' (i.e., nothing of value)

yet you don't raise questions on that. Why ?

People in the west have built their 'fraud' economies on 'fraud' money. And you! the people from within our ranks accept it as 'acceptable', 'legal', viable 'money', 'currency' for trade ?

You don't raise questions about the fact that they are conducting trillions! of $$$ worth of trade on the basis of non-existent money ?

You don't despise them for this fraud ? Do you ?

Do you know the massive! repercussions people all over the globe are going to face, because of using this 'fake' money for trade ?

Do you know the massive! repercussions people all over the globe are going to face when this 'fraud' economy on a global scale falls dead ? (which has been 'masterfully' 'setup' to happen in these next coming years)

Do you know the bloodshed that is about to happen in the world because of it ? Why don't I see you raising questions about that ?

Have Afghans committed crimes of this magnitude on a global scale ?

Have Pakistanis' committed crimes of this magnitude ?

Have Muslims all over the globe ever committed crimes of this magnitude ?

--------------------------------------------------------

(4) continuously 'threaten', 'push', become 'violent' against minorities in their 'nation states', 'Empires'

..yet you don't raise questions on that. Why ?

Why don't you never question them on the fact that they 'profess' or 'propagate' the idea that 'their state' is a 'plural' 'state', yet the fact remains, their states are not! 'plural' in nature.

Afghan Taliban are 'struggling' to 'create' a 'Muslim' 'plural' state as per Sunnah of, as per standards set by Muhammad (SAW).

Yet in the beginning of this job from their side, you start raising questions ?

Are you not aware that people of this region have gone through many decades of direct slavery, and are still living under 'indirect' 'slavery' that they are 'attempting' to 'recuperate' from ?

--------------------------------------------------------

(5) etc etc, this list is quite long

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:32 #
shirazi
Member

@HK

The thread is not about Afghan taliban vs West. It is about Afghan Taliban vs Pakistan Taliban. How one is jihadi other is fisadi?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:34 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@shirazi: Is that the question ?

I was just getting started with my dissertation by asking 'zenith' to 'substantiate' the 'tall' 'claims' he has made in his original post.

ah, well.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:44 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: Who says people of a nation cannot stand against their own nation's government, fight it through all possible means, including violence, to get what they want ? ..especially that which is legal by all humane standards ?

If people in USA can take up arms against their own government, when their government goes against their well-being, why can't people of Pakistan do the same, when those who run Govt. of Pakistan repeatedly, consistently commit treason with people of Pakistan, repeatedly, consistently deny people of Pakistan as basic a necessity of life as 'justice', job/business opportunities, land reforms (end to feudalism), etc etc ?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:47 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: Do you 'understand' the 'construct' of;

(1) 'nation state'
(2) 'Muslim state' / Muslim UMMAH

?

Do you know or 'understand' the 'differences' between these two ?

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 19:48 #
haider3
member

Shirazi, I think we are talking at cross purposes. Afghanistan cannot fall into western hands, That's absolutely not on. They have to and will win this one. They are the heartbeat of Islam, for one thing. And they are a beacon of light for the whole Freeworld. Your 55 Muslim countries which you call Western colonies can carry on being that for all I care. Afghanistan is a case apart.

TTP, whoever and whatever they are, arouse mystification in me. Not respect and admiration. The problem with TTP - and this is addressed to HK as well - is they are not fighting against the government. Where are their attacks on Government? They attack, or so we are told, innocent people, shrines, other sects for the main part. This is playing into Government hands rather than the other way around. Killing innocents is forbidden in Islam. If they are doing so, they are outside the pale of our religion. Am I correct in thinking you've now dubbed TTP revolutionaries? And how on earth did Iranis get dragged into the discussion? I may be intellectually dishonest as you claim. But you definitely seem somewhat intellectually confused.

I repeat and this is absolutely my last posting on this topic because we are simply repeating ourselves to no purpose: the Afghans had to fight their war. The TTP, brother Pukhtoon, would have done better to join up with them in their fight rather than carry out God knows what kinds of attack in Pakistan. And if you absolutely insist on the term revolutionary for TTP, then the distinction between them and the AR is the latter are freedom fighters. In this case, I'm for the freedom fighters and not in favour of the so-called revolutionaries.

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 20:08 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

I have already pointed out the fact that;

(1) People in 'TTP' have been made 'fools' and have been 'used' against Pakistan

..by men of power (Zionists, Unjust Jews and their supporters) living in the west

(It remains to be seen if they did it willingly or if they were 'used')

(2) Mr. Musharraf/Zardari (who both 'submit' to the so-called 'modern' west for their 'prosperity') have been 'used' against masses living in Pakistan

..by men of power (Zionists, Unjust Jews and their supporters) living in the west

'TTP' is/was 'one part' of the 'top and bottom' 'pressure' that 'men of power' (non-Muslims, Zionists, Unjust Jews and their supporters) living in western countries applied on people of Pakistan, on the masses living in Pakistan.

In Pakistan, Mr. Musharraf/Zardari was 'top' side of 'this' 'pressure' and 'TTP' are the 'bottom' side of 'this' 'pressure'.

What happens when 'pressure' is applied on masses living in a nation from top and bottom ? It helps to 'crack' the 'will' of the masses of Pakistan to 'resist', to 'fight back', which results in the masses 'willingly' 'accepting' to 'give up' their freedom, 'willingly' 'accepting' to support all kinds of unjust activities, for example 'agreeing' with 'conducting' military operations against 'innocent' Muslims living in FATA, in NWFP who have committed no crimes, who's only crime is that they have high level of 'eeman' (in urdu) (belief) in ALLAH ALMIGHTY.

What's the outcome in Pakistan as a result of decisions, actions of Mr. Musharraf's/Zardari, as well as decisions, actions of people in 'TTP' ? I see a good number of us in Pakistan willingly accepting, believing in, going along with what we have been 'forcefully' 'told' to 'believe' in i.e., there is a conflict/war to be fought that we must take part in.

What is the result of people of Pakistan 'accepting' the fact that we must take part in this conflict/war against a non-existent enemy ?

(a) Pakistan's Army is being spread all around Pakistan

(b) Pakistan's treasury is being emptied

(c) Pakistan is being 'forced' to go into large amount of internal and external 'debt'

(d) Pakistan's Army is being made to 'tire'

(e) Pakistan's focus from 'defense' on its eastern border (towards India) is being compromised

(f) Pakistan's local economy is being mercilessly murdered (by allowing India 'trade transit to Afghanistan, through Pakistan)

India will 'also' use this 'transit trade' to send shipments of military equipment to its operatives sitting in Afghanistan, that people in Pakistan will not be allowed to 'check'.

(g) etc etc

Who benefits when;

(a) Pakistan gets weak
(b) Pakistan's Army is spread all around Pakistan
(c) Pakistan's Army is made to 'tire' in fighting against non-existent enemies
(d) Pakistan's treasury is emptied in fighting non-existent enemies
(e) Pakistan's economy is murdered in cold blood
(f) people of Pakistan are 'made' to 'despise' their own Army because Pakistan Army is being 'used' by 'men of power' (Zionists, Unjust Jews) from the west to spread all kinds of 'injustice' inside Pakistan

?

You people need to 'realize' the fact that after downfall of Russia, non-Muslims have 'shifted' 'focus' of this 'great game' of power (over all of this globe) towards Muslim civilization.

By keeping track of what is happening between Muslims and non-Muslims today, it is a crystal clear 'clash' of non-Muslim and Muslim 'civilizations'.

When western countries like USA, like European countries start taking side of one woman who looks as if she has murdered her husband in Iran, and start hyping stuff against Iran for giving that woman punishment for committing that crime, for which she went through legal system in Iran, it is one example of this 'clash' of civilizations.

Non-Muslims have been 'supporting' 'criminals', they have been 'helping' criminals stay away from punishments inside Muslim lands for more than two centuries in order to 'use' those criminals to do 'their' bidding inside our land (i.e., Muslim lands), against our! 'collective' well-being, our 'collective' interests.

There is a video that helps us understand 'how' 'men of great wealth, great power' 'apply' this 'pressure' on the masses of any nation. For more information go through video on the;

Thread: Video: The Capitalist Conspiracy

Posted 1 year ago on 20 Nov 2010 20:25 #
shirazi
Member

@MG

I am little surprised you announced absolute last post w/o reaching to any conclusion.

Anyway I quoted Iran as an example of one of the Muslim state out of 57 that stands against western influence. The other one is probably Afghanistan. My only plea was when we the Pakistanis are not willing to pay the price for standing up against west. What right do we have to use Afghanistan as model rebilious state? We don't want inflation, unemployment, suicide attacks in Pakistan that comes as by-product of standing against west but we ignore all these when we glorify Afghanistan as model Islamic state.

I tend to agree there is no point in repeating ourselves if we can't convince each other.

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 1:21 #
truths
Member

Is USA attacking Iran or helping it out?

We all know Iran biggest enemies were Saddam and Taliban. Both Forces were taken out by USA!!

Guess what? USA even sold Iran weapons right before invasion of Afghanistan. Iranian Special forces were working side by side along with Nato members fighting the Taliban.

During Yugoslavia war, Iranian special forces with blessing of USA were training Kosovo's
guerrillas.

Read about Iran contra affair

First arms sale
Michael Ledeen, a consultant of Robert McFarlane, asked Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres for help in the sale of arms to Iran.[11] The general idea behind the plan was for Israel to ship weapons to Iran, then the US would reimburse Israel with the same weapons. The Israeli government required that the sale of arms meet high level approval from the United States government, and when Robert McFarlane convinced them that the U.S. government approved the sale, Israel obliged by agreeing to sell the arms.[11] Reagan approved McFarlane's idea to reach out to Iran on July 18, 1985 while in a hospital bed recovering from cancer surgery.[12][12] In July 1985, Israel sent American-made BGM-71 TOW (Tube-launched, Optically-tracked, Wire-guided) anti-tank missiles to Iran through an arms dealer named Manucher Ghorbanifar, a friend of Iran's Prime Minister. One hostage, the Reverend Benjamin Weir was subsequently released, despite the completed arms sale. This ultimately proved Ledeen's plan a failure[8] with only three shipments through Israel.[11]

Arrow Air 1285 crash
After a botched delivery of HAWK missiles, and a disastrous London meeting between McFarlane and Ghorbanifar (at which Ghorbanifar threatened his American interlocutor by saying that there would be "fire back on your interests"), Arrow Air Flight 1285, a plane containing nearly 250 American servicemen, crashed in Newfoundland.

On the day of the crash, responsibility was claimed by Islamic Jihad, a wing of Hezbollah that had taken credit for the kidnapping of the very Americans in Lebanon whom the Reagan administration sought to have released. The crash came on the second anniversary of another attack for which Islamic Jihad took credit: the near-simultaneous bombings of six targets in Kuwait, the French and American Embassies among them. Members of Hezbollah had participated in and were jailed for those attacks, but most of the conspirators were members of the Iraqi Shia opposition party al-Dawa, (the Call, today one of the largest political parties in Iraq, chaired by the incumbent prime minister Nouri al-Maliki). An article in the June 2007 Middle East Review of International Affairs, by Nathan Thrall, presents evidence of Iran's complicity.[13]

Subsequent dealings
Robert McFarlane resigned in December 1985.[14] He was replaced by Admiral John Poindexter. On the day of McFarlane's resignation, Oliver North, a military aide to the United States National Security Council (NSC), proposed a new plan for selling arms to Iran. This time, there were two new ideas. Instead of selling arms through Israel, the sale was to be direct. Second, the proceeds from the sale would go to the Contras at a markup. Oliver North wanted a $15 million markup, while contracted Iranian arms broker Manucher Ghorbanifar added a 41% markup of his own.[15] Other members of the NSC were in favor of North's plan. John Poindexter authorized the plan, and it went into effect.[16]

At first, the Iranians refused to buy the arms at the inflated price because of the excessive markup imposed by North and Ghorbanifar. In February 1986, 1000 TOW missiles were shipped to Iran.[16] From May to November 1986, there were additional shipments of miscellaneous weapons and parts.[16] Reagan claimed that the total of all arms sales was less than a planeload.[5

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 5:55 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@shirazi: If and when you don't agree with that which is right, you setup yourself to;

(1) live the life of 'slavery'
(2) die a worthless death, to reach an equally worthless afterlife

The choice is yours, and everyone else's to make. Make it a good one.

Do you want to live as human beings who have freedom, who obey ALLAH ALMIGHTY only!, or do you want to live your lives as 'slaves' of 'other' 'human beings' who live in the west, who know no laws, no code of conduct, no values, no nothing.

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 6:37 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: (5) What do you think we'll call people living in western countries when they 'threaten' as well as fight wars against Muslim nation states who venture to acquire nuclear weapons, yet they themselves willingly make deals with India, with Vietnam to give them;

(a) nuclear reactors
(b) nuclear fuel

Why? So they'd 'become' their 'minions' in return, in order to 'contain' China (the rising power), in order for people in the west to control this region of the world ?

Muslims 'acquire' weapons to 'balance' both sides of the conflict in order to stop! people/nation states/Empires from going into wars. In contrast people living in western countries have made their local business/job market as such that it is in their 'interest' to 'incite' wars among mankind, among different nation states, Empires, etc etc.

Can you imagine a former enemy arming their foe with nuclear weapons to contain another rising power in this era of so-called 'peace' and 'prosperity' ?

Can you imagine USA arming India, Vietnam with nuclear weapons, yet threatening wars against Muslim nation states who venture to acquire them ? Why would people living in western countries do this ?

USA has fought war(s) with Vietnam. Now people in USA are willingly giving out 'nuclear weapons, 'nuclear reactors' to one of their former enemies. For what ? For getting their help to 'contain' China by 'threatening' China with 'war', with 'military' action.

What would you call such people ? I'd call them 'Yajooj Majooj' (in urdu, arabic), the people described in Islam's scriptures as;

(a) malevolent
(b) lawless
(c) people who adhere to no code of conduct
(d) bent on spreading corruption
(e) bent on spreading 'whispers'
(f) bent on spreading lies
(g) bent on spreading 'wrong information'
(h) bent on spreading war
(i) bent on spreading affliction
(j) bent on spreading 'injustice' all throughout the world

(6) What do you think we'll call people living in western countries when they 'arm' as well as 'finance' both sides of a conflict/war that they! 'encourage' or in other words 'force' people of both sides to fight ?

They 'bring about' 'conditions', so people, so nation states, so Empires will be forced to fight wars.

They have made their local business market in USA as such that they have spread their 'military industrial complex' in 44 states. That 'military industrial complex' provides jobs to people in 44 states.

What do you think these people will do to retain those jobs ?

What do you think the owners of the 'military industrial complex', and those who have shares in this industry will do to repeatedly, consistently, 'increase' their profits ?

USA's 'military industrial complex' is a $1+ trillion industry already.

People in USA have made their system as such that they have become a great threat to 'survival, to peaceful 'existence' of all people living in this world.

People living in the west have 2-3 centuries old history of 'purposefully' 'inciting' 'wars', 'conflicts' among Empires, among nation states, among groups of people, etc etc. Read history. Do your own independent research into it. Search on Google for;

(i) false flag operations
(ii) History of American False Flag Operations

Go through;

- History of American False Flag Operations

The;

(a) Gulf of Tonkin incident
(b) Pearl Harbor incident
(c) 9/11 (Watch the movie 'Loose Change')
(d) etc etc

they were ALL 'false flag operations'. It has already been proven, and published in shape of videos in western mass media.

--------------------------------------------------------

This is why some Muslim scholars as well as I note them as the people described in the Quran-o-Sunnah as 'Yajooj Majooj' (in urdu, arabic).

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 6:44 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: (7) Who do you think created 'tax havens' in European countries ?

Who do you think is running this operation i.e., these 'tax havens' ?

Why would these people be running 'tax havens' in Europe ?

Who do you think is getting affected by these 'tax havens' ?

Can you 'understand', can you 'visualize' the 'severe' 'damage' these 'tax havens' have done to 'entire' populations of nation states over these past many decades ?

Needless to say, as in the past, and now moving forward in the future the affects of these 'tax havens' continues to 'threaten' well-being of masses living all over the world.

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 7:36 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zenith: (8) Who do you think has 'declared' 'war' on their own children, their own future generations, by 'forcefully' 'borrowing' 'prosperity' from their children who haven't been born yet, to;

(1) live 'luxurious' life, way beyond their means
(2) fight wars against Muslims
(3) support criminals of all kinds on a global scale

?

Is that what Muslims do ? Is that how cruel Muslims are with their children, their future generations ?

Who in their right mind would decide to 'deny' their own children, their future generations a normal, healthy, good life by 'taking away' their 'finances' ?

I see most of the Muslims making the decisions, taking the actions to live within their means.

It is Muslims as well as other good people living in the east, who are 'subsidizing' luxurious life of people living in the west. Ask me for details on 'how'.

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 8:22 #
truths
Member

you look at all of them than there is no doubt that they are referring to mujahideen alone and no one else. Since they speak about being opposed, triumphing their enemies, choosing amirs from amongst themselves, gaining war booty, fighting alongside jesus [saw] against the dajjal. You can find most of them in sahih muslim under book of government

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 9:01 #
truths
Member

http://www.urdumania.com/tag/jihad-in-hadith

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 9:13 #
haider3
member

Sorry, Shirazi. I wasn't being threatening or anything. I thought a conclusion had been reached: we beg to differ, you and I, on this particular matter. But let me take back my "last-time-ever" phrase and address your latest posting which was much clearer than what you seemed to say before.

Surely I accept that our TTP or whoever is an inevitable fallout of the war in Afghanistan. The way you put it there and I paraphrase your words:

We Pakistanis willingly accept the deaths in Afghanistan on our behalf and even glorify them, but we cringe and scream when we are called upon to pay our part of the price in opposing in our own way the physical advent of the west in our midst."

is absolutely an indication of double standards. I couldn't agree more. So if this is what was meant all along by Zenith and you, then my turn to apologise for having been so obtuse. But even so, I respect the Afghan Resistance and despise those who are doing what they are doing in Pakistan, however inevitable it may be. The whole thing boils down to this finally: Respect versus contempt.

I respect Iran, none more. I respect Turkey. I respect Afghanistan above all. I respect mutilated Iraq which gave Afghanistan the chance to regroup and take over the struggle when they themselves could not carry on as they had begun after Shock and Awe. I love Pakistan and greatly despise many elements in it, including whomever we seem to call the Taliban of Pakistan. These are no Pukhtoon. They are paid slaves.

Truths, you are dead wrong about Iran. Wasn't it you yourself who recently gave us a news item about how Iran was helping out the Afghan Resistance? Iran is a Muslim country, none more. And absolutely secure in its Muslim identity, in spite of its present handful of money-loving traitors. Whatever they may or may not do, be sure it will be to further the cause of Islam.

HK's tremendous diatribe against the west should be read attentively. Every word he writes is absolutely accurate. If anything, he doesn't go far enough perhaps. They are the enemies of mankind. We should never get taken in by them.

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 9:42 #
toamin
member

sorry HK, i skipped your very long posts

question is Why Afghan resistance is jihad while Pak resistance is fassaad?

because afghan got invaded by foreigners while Pakistan was not invaded by foreigners, it is not right to target muslims of pakistan in retaliation (XE/BW), similarly it is not right for pak army to target muslims of north west pakistan, both are wrong-

Posted 1 year ago on 21 Nov 2010 10:20 #