Why I believe America created the Pakistan Taliban

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Why I believe America created the Pakistan Taliban

(46 posts)

haider3
member

Imran Khan: Why I believe America created the Pakistan Taliban: The decision to send the army into the tribal areas of the North West Frontier, to flush out al Qaeda terrorists, simply fuelled extremism. “It's civil war in the making,” he says shaking his head.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/lifestyle/article-23816086-imran-khan-why-i-believe-america-created-the-pakistan-taliban.do

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 6:35 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

Imran Khan has been repeating this for years. JI has been doing the same since before Imran Khan.

JI worked so hard to prevent civil war. But .. it seems the stubbornness of our own people will force it to happen, regardless of how hard we try to stop it.

The imminent bloodshed as a result of civil war is what I'm afraid of.

I wish our people would vouch for the peaceful way i.e., court of law.

Alas! .. Alas!

Our people are bent on bringing bloodshed upon themselves.

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 7:19 #
zalaan
Blocked

then

Why JI is calling Taliban their brothers ?
Why JI is against the operation
They said that Sawat was captured by Hindus but they acccepted Taliban Shariat

If Taliban is created by US then why Jamaat Islami do not condemn Taliban ?

It means Taliban and JI both are created by Zionists ,Creating confusion can ciaos in the country .

Munawer HAsan has said so many times
"Ham aur Taliban Aik hain "

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 7:26 #
achtung
Member

ajeeb mantaq hy.
agar america ne pakistan taliban is liye banae hy ke pakistan ko kamzor kia jaey, to phir pakistan taliban ko support karne waley to american agent hue na!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 7:29 #
Anti Pakistan
Member

History is written by victors,

Afghanistan is the only land which writes the history of Bristish collaspe, Russain Collaspe and now the greastest power is dying under the barren land of Afganistan

But History is full of Liars

Liars will soon come out with their black faces.

******* have created the taliban and taliban will destroy ********

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 7:30 #
Wahid Doyum
Member

zalaan and achtung, well done. You have just exposed the hypocritical agenda of right wing pakistani establishment. On one hand their favorite ISI agent Khalid Khawaja has issued certificate that Hakeemullah Mehsud is alive and his agents have met with him and on other hand they want to make fools of people by saying taliban who attack east of durand line are american agents, but those same people who attack few miles away west of durand line are mujahideen.

What hypocrisy!

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 22:03 #
tamaazkhan
Member

Btw have you guys read the article?
There is half a paragraph on his view on the Taliban, the rest of it is personal crap.

In any case, as Zalaan wrote:

If the US created TTP, why aren't JI/PTI supporting the operation in Waziristan and Swat?

The arial bombardment will only increase collateral damage, shouldn't the army go in and help the Waziristani's kick out the TTP?

Posted 2 years ago on 18 Mar 2010 22:15 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

It was a multi-pronged attack on Pakistan. Some local criminals from northern regions were hired by foreigners. They were told to (ab)use the label 'Taliban'.

Their objective were, (but may not have been limited to);

(1) increase crimes
(2) exploit local population, take them to the brink
(3) spread chaos
(4) incite division
(5) incite a situation of civil war
(6) invite Pak Army for committing atrocities over their people
(7) give local people the incentive to call for separation from Pakistan, as a result of the Army's brutal murder of its own people
(8) de-fame the label 'Taliban'

Its called 'brand management' in western countries. Just like the brand name PEPSI. We are taught about it in Marketing/Management courses in colleges/Universities.

When PEPSI needed to take one brand out of the market and introduce a new one in its place, they ran mass media campaigns to decrease fame of one product while simultaneously increasing! fame of another. Thus pushing one product out of the market, while replacing it with another. However, ALL depends on how the general public take it.

Its an age old game, a 400+ year old game of manipulation, of making a fool out of people, used in many other countries (by Zionist controlled military of USA) before Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, China.

Did no one here hear about 'Operation Tulsi' ?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 3:34 #
LalBichoo
Blocked

In any case, as Zalaan wrote:

If the US created TTP, why aren't JI/PTI supporting the operation in Waziristan and Swat?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 4:12 #
zalaan
Blocked

"Good Taliban and Bad Taliban " another theory to defend them ,Can JI issue the list of Taliban who are bad and Good ?

Muslim khan ,Molvi Umer ,Fazlullah ,Baitullah mehsud ,Molvi Faqeer and other accepted killings front of the media and Jamaat Islami ,Imran khan and other religious leader never condemn them .So , Are these Taliban leaders are Good Taliban or Bad Taliban ?
If they are bad and indian agent then Why Jamaat Islami do not condemn them ? why Ex JI sufi mohammad and Muslim khan; Sharait was accepted by Jamaat Islami ,If they were indian agent ?

If they are Good Taliban then Why Jamaat Islami ,Imran khan and others do not protest for their Release ? WHy JI do not ask government to release Muslim khan and Sufi Mohammad ?

Whby Jamaat Islami did not protest against the killing of Taliban Ameer Baitullah mehsoud ,Why they do not call him a "shaeed "
?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 7:14 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zalaan: Why should we take responsibility of problems created by Pak Army, Govt. of Pakistan, Institutions of Pakistan, over a period of decades ?

JI is a private 'tanzeem'. We are not Govt. of Pakistan. We are not responsible.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 7:39 #
zalaan
Blocked

JI has been confusing Pakistan people and defending Taliban That is why people ask these question .

Pak Army, Govt. of Pakistan, Institutions of Pakistan are very clear now ,They call all Taliban Terrorist ,its very clear .

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 7:45 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zalaan: You seem to be 'netengr' in disguise.

What happened ? Popularity of your former nick got diminished ?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 7:53 #
tamaazkhan
Member

@haris

Are you saying JI/PTI only support the label that is Taliban, not the criminals who are creating mayhem in the region and country?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 14:15 #
Wahid Doyum
Member

How is that the "real" taliban who control everything, cannot identify these alleged criminals who are "defaming" them?

I thought taliban are so strong they can take on the world's superpower, but can't even manage their own brand perception?

The truth is that its hard to manage your brand, when you are involved in acts of brutality and terror yourself. Pukhtun leaders were not beheaded and bombed by anyone but these ISI led taliban.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 15:46 #
gv
Member

if any of you bother to read the article you will find that all he is saying is that american policy led to the creation and propagation of militancy not that they sat and planned it out

typical quick jerk reaction to headlines from all the regulars here...

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 16:12 #
skunkk
Member

The more relevant question is that why those people who believe America, Israel and India are behind Taliban especially IK, NS, JI etc are hell bent on not fighting them? They are asking government to hold talks with those whom they believe to be Indian agents or American agents.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 16:39 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: Yes! (in so many words). Why ?

(1) The people who are causing mayham in our country are NOT! Taliban. They are just (ab)using the label 'Taliban'

(a) Some of them have REAL grievances against Pak Army, Pak Govt., etc etc

Injustice has been the norm in Pakistan for over 6 decades now. There's bound to be militancy where there's ZERO justice available.

They could have made or supported Pakistani Taliban for addressing their grievances.

(b) Some of them are local criminals hired by foreigners, who are (ab)using the name Pakistani Taliban

Why ? Because foreigners know;

(i) want to de-fame the label 'Taliban' among Pakistani people (so people of Pakistan or the rest of the UMMAH will stop supporting Taliban in Afghanistan, who are fighting against USA/Nato + their allies)
(ii) there is ZERO Accountability system in Pakistan
(iii) These criminals are people who are poor
(iv) These criminals can get the job done for foreigners, without any requirement of effort from foreigners
(v) ALL foreigners have to do, is to spread money everywhere like crazy

(2) The people who ARE! Taliban, they are in Afghanistan. They are those who are fighting against USA/Nato + their allies

It is important for Pakistani people to support them in their fight against USA/Nato and their allies.

JI has been repeating this for a long time, now.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 17:47 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@Wahid Doyum: Brand Management is done by Americans. Our people are not that sophisticated yet. Our people need more education.

Those who are fighting Jihad in the name of ALLAH ALMIGHTY, they are straight forward people. They didn't understand these things at first.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 17:48 #
zalaan
Blocked

The "Good " Afghani Taliban Tried to kill Hizbe Islami leader Gulbadeen hikmat yaar ,Hikmat yaar fled to Iran and stayed there for 6 years ,Thanks of USA and NATO he was able to come back to Afghanistan when Taliban got weak .

The so called "Good "Taliban declared Hikmat yaar an enemy .

The Good Taliban were also involved harboring terrorism in other countries ,They facilitated Alqaida and supported Many Bombings even before 9/11 ,those killings were justified in Taliban Sharia Court .

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 17:53 #
Shaheen-e-Iqbal
Member

You are talking sense but those who are actually doing the opposite won't heed as they are spreading just propaganda.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 17:54 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@zalaan: I knew! you were 'netengr'. You retain your credibility, your reputation of;

(a) encouraging division
(b) spreading/inciting hate

even though you changed your nick.

Did you ever think Al-Qaeda could be;

(1) a hoax ?
(2) a reaction to US/Nato injustice in KSA or other Muslim nations states around KSA ?
(3) a counter resistance force to USA/Nato's consistent support of rulers, dictators who excersize policies at Govt. level which are not good for the people of that area in general, but are good for the tiny elite ruling over those Muslim nation states ?

USA/Nato + their allies;

(a) are backing and forcefully keeping KSA's royal family in power in KSA since it disintegrated Muslim UMMAH back in 1924, isn't it ?

(b) have backed and forcefully kept Egypt's dictator in power for 40+ ! years now, hasn't it ?

(c) have now forcefully put up a puppet democratic Govt. in Iraq, that backs USA's interests in contrast to interest of people of Iraq, hasn't it ?

(d) have backed and forcefully kept those rulers in power in Pakistan who would do their bidding in Pakistan, for decades now, hasn't it ?

(e) etc etc

-------------------------------------------------------------------

In the light of this information, are people in Al-Qaeda or other resistance groups within Muslim land really enemies of Muslims ?

I would think many times before I decide on this. There is a lot of lies out there.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 17:57 #
tamaazkhan
Member

haris

So in essence....JI/PTI support the operation against these 'criminals' who are spreading mayhem in Waziristan, Swat, Agency and Lahore(amongst other places) but objects to the label of Taliban being attibuted to these criminals?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:10 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: (1) JI does not support military operations

(2) JI believes military operations is not the answer, is not the solution to resolving this issue

(3) JI believes the solution to this problem is other! than military operations

Military operations are perhaps only 2% of the total solution that is needed to resolve this situation.

(4) JI believes military operations will only unnecessarily exacerbate any already bad situation

(5) JI believes current Govt. of Pakistan is conducting these military operations, not because it decided itself that this was the solution to our problem, but because this was dictated to our Govt. by foreigners (Anglo-Americans and their allies) who are paying them money for continuation of their personal luxurious life

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:12 #
tamaazkhan
Member

But, did you not say that, and I quote:

(b) Some of them are local criminals hired by foreigners, who are (ab)using the name Pakistani Taliban
Why ? Because foreigners know;
(i) want to de-fame the label 'Taliban' among Pakistani people (so people of Pakistan or the rest of the UMMAH will stop supporting Taliban in Afghanistan

How do you suppose we deal with heavily armed criminals who regualrly attack schools and shopping plazas?
Should we talk to them?

PS. JI never had issues with military operations in East Pakistan, Baluchistan or Karachi, is this a new policy?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:30 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: The bulk of the problem could have been resolved by;

(1) abiding by constitution of Pakistan in letter and spirit
(2) establishing rule of law
(3) keeping promises
(4) ensuring judicial, political, financial, social justice according to Islam's given principles, rules, laws, guidelines, etc etc
(5) implementing Islami Nizam (the local people requested it over and over again)
(6) Ensuring that accountability measures are not circumvented, especially by Govt. officials

What is wrong in negotiating ? O bewaqoof insan, haven't you heard what Imran Khan said ? He said history proves to us that military actions have rarely helped to resolve issues. Peaceful ways (Negotiations, etc etc) have resolved 90+ % of the issues to-date, especially in the last century.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:32 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: Dude, the story of East Pakistan is different. I don't want to discuss it on this thread.

It will take us wayyyy off-topic.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:37 #
tamaazkhan
Member

I've never heard of any criminal justice system (including any Islamic precendence) which negotiates with criminals.

A trial is provided, yes, no negotiations are required for surrender to the proper authorities.

Can you prove to me that in Islam, when a criminal blows up your children, you should negotiate with them to make them stop!

I am smart enought not to listen to much to Imran Khan. He says military operations don't solve anything today, after supporting a millitary coup in 1999. So IK I take with a pinch of salt.

How is E.pakistan different, it had the same themes of:

Injustice
Usurping the peoples rights
Foreign Interference

Actaully I'd say the situation is analogous.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:46 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: Who knows that they are criminals ? Has it been ever established that they are criminals ? I don't see any such verdict, by any court of law, anywhere inside Pakistan.

Who's criminal ?

The people who fight for their rights, to safeguard their life from brutal, criminal, law violating Govt./Army of its own state, they can't be termed as criminals, can they ?

You are generalizing. That is what is wrong in your word.

How can you even begin with the notion that the people of those areas are criminals, when the Govt./Army itself doesn't adhere to the law of the land ?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:48 #
tamaazkhan
Member

You said they are criminals:

(b) Some of them are local criminals hired by foreigners, who are (ab)using the name Pakistani Taliban

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:49 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: Yes, and they will be taken care of by the justice system automatically.

We do not need military operations to deal with them.

They are increasing in number because;

(1) Govt./Army of Pakistan ITSELF is not adhering to law of the land

(2) Govt./Army of Pakistan is not keeping promises, pacts they make with the people

(3) Govt./Army is propagating injustice rather than the people in general, but the people in general are being punished by Govt./Army

Result ? People are getting radicalized against their own state, against their own Govt./Army.

They have! to safeguard their life. They have! to preserve the sanctity of their life from state propagated injustice.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:51 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: When was the last time you saw;

(1) a Govt. or Army official or any other powerful citizen getting convicted for their crimes through the court of law, in Pakistan ?

(2) the common man of Pakistan have the confidence to go to the court of law to file cases against Govt. or Army official who committed crimes ?

If the common man of Pakistan hasn't had the confidence to resolve their disputes in a civilized, peaceful way, through the court of law, since Pakistan was created, why don't you expect militancy to come around after 60+ years ?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 18:59 #
tamaazkhan
Member

"Yes, and they will be taken care of by the justice system automatically."
-and how exactly? the police and secuirity forces are attacked when they head to the ares to pick up suspects. They murder any tribal edler that dares to stand up to them.

Are you saying now that no attempt should be made to apprehend criminals in Pakistan, becuase:

(1) Govt./Army of Pakistan ITSELF is not adhering to law of the land
(2) Govt./Army of Pakistan is not keeping promises, pacts they make with the people

Or that some criminals should be aprehended while the ones in Swat and Waziristan shoudn't?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:00 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tameezkhan: I have already! mentioned the solution, many times over in my posts above. I'm not going to repeat it.

You are not reading, not looking at the solutions I'm putting forward. You'r only concentrating on those parts of my posts, which you can use to solidify your own argument.

Your argument is false. You will never find reasons to defend false arguments.

In other words you'r prolonging an argument with me, just for the sake of arguing with me, when you yourself think it is worthless.

I don't find any reason to continue with you anymore.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:03 #
achtung
Member

harris behai. agar aap ki tamam batein sach maan bhi lee jaee tub bhi pakistan mei talibani nizam kabhi nahee aae ga aur na hi JI ko log kabhi muntakib karein gay. likh kar rakh lein.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:05 #
tamaazkhan
Member

HK,

You have provided preventave measures, which if implemented would not have led to this situation.

We are all to familar that it has not been done in the past past, BUT presently as the TTP is blowing up innocent women and children, what should we do?

-Talk to them?
-Not attempt to apprehend them because our goverment is guilty?
-Because our goverment is guilty do we stop prosecuting all criminals, murderers or only the ones is Swat and Waziristan?
-Who answers to the families of the innocents who have been murdered?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:09 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@achtung: Do you really want me to show you reality of the last 60+ years ?

It will be enough to render you speechless :-)

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:14 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: You want to continue deluding yourself ? Be! my guest.

(1) The information you are being fed, is by the same people who are committing crimes against their own people i.e., Govt. + Army of this state.

How do you expect that information to be true ?

Information is the easiest thing to manipulate.

(2) Secondly, its a war zone, its not peace time. What are you on about ?

Common sense doesn't accept what your saying.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:16 #
tamaazkhan
Member

1.) I thought it was criminals supported by foreign elements perptrating these crimes?

2.) So a war zone means we do not hold murderes of innocent children accountable for their crimes - WE NEGOTIATE?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:34 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: O bhaee, military operations have been going on for how long ? Did that solve the problem ? or did it increase the problem ?

Don't you have common sense ?

Pakistani Taliban don't need to win the fight against Pak Army. ALL they have to do is keep the heat up, so Pak Army finishes up ALL resources of Pakistan, be it money, weapons, the resolve to fight, etc etc.

They can tire Pak Army. Pak army would die its own death. Exactly the same way USA/Nato's Army is die'ing off in Afghanistan.

Militants are using guerrilla warfare. If they subside themselves, you can't call that a victory of Pak Army. That is called a unilateral ceasefire.

Taliban in Afghanistan have fought a much much bigger Army than Pak Army. What could USA/Nato do to Taliban in 10 years of war ?

What will Pak army achieve in guerrilla warfare ?

Guerrilla warfare is to-date an unbeaten tactic of warfare against an opposing force of larger magnitude.

Pak Army is wasting Pakistan's resources to conduct these useless military operations. They should stop this nonsense, preserve these resources for the coming wars against the west.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:41 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: If Pak Govt. + Army abide by the law of the land, justice system of Pakistan can give more than enough incentives to Pakistani Taliban to end their militancy.

If you want to fight, well the fight is going on. Good! luck to you and all of Pakistan that thinks like you. I would love to see you ALL die with your stubborn BS!.

You fully! deserve it.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:48 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: This conflict will rage on untill Pakistan Govt. + Army chooses to abide by the law of the land.

It will end in destruction of Pakistan. Nothing more.

The people of northern areas have lived in this same region for centuries. They aren't going anywhere.

They'v fought off far bigger super powers than Pakistan. They don't care if super powers want to be unjust.

They will bring them ALL down to their knees. They will kill them ALL.

Who cares if Pakistan is next (super power) in line to be killed for its stubborn propagation of injustice ?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 19:51 #
skunkk
Member

@ tamaaz: yeh hariskhan ko khwab e ghaflat ki neend mein rehne dou, we got Islamabad, Swat and South Waziristan back from him, now when his lying leaders are threatened by army operation in North Waziristan they are already begging for mercy. It is too late, the public has shown that they are not with those who support talks, crushing them is the only option, dont mind the jamatis.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 20:07 #
tamaazkhan
Member

HK,

Please do not preach to me about the Northern Areas. It is the people of the Norther Areas who are feeling the brunt of the criminals. The innocents I am talking about are mainly in the Nothern Areas.

Do you know how many Pakhtoon civilians have been killed by the TTP? Many more than army/government personell.

Will the Pakhtoons have to swallow thier pride and have a DIALOGUE with criminals who murder anyone that stands in their way?

Just so JI/PTI fanatics can continue their wet dream of a glorious Taliban victory aginst the US?
Fight the American for all I care, why murder innocent Pakistanis?
Why do these criminals have the right to DIALOGUE?
Who will answer to the families of the victims?

Are you advocating that no murderer be punished until the Pakistani govt. fixes itself? Or only the murderers of Pakhtoons get to walk away free?

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 20:08 #
tamaazkhan
Member

HK,

The same people who defeated the British and Soviets will defeat the Taliban.

Don't you worry, they will also come after those that provided support to the murderers of the Pakhtoons.

skunk,
sahi kaha aap nay, swat kay logon nay dhakka mara, north wazirisatan kay logon nay danda mara, ab south waziristan kay log goli marain gay.

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 20:14 #
hariskhan
member

Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

@tamaazkhan: (sarcasm) Aho!. Don't listen to me. Listen to those who are deep in the swamp of bribes, injustice, crimes. (/sarcasm)

Posted 2 years ago on 19 Mar 2010 20:20 #