Sharif Aadmi
Member
http://express.com.pk/epaper/PoPupwindow.aspx?newsID=1100990941&Issue=NP_LHE&Date=20100707
Please look at the newsitem and it will give u reason why there is so much opposition for KBD ? its Punjab's authorative behaviour which has caused problems.
For members kind memory , CJ Link canal was built as a flood canal and was supposed to be open only in flood season with permission of lower riparian (Sind) .
@sharif aadmi
Completely agree with you on this, this is just a glimpse of what Panjab does all the time.
shriq
Member
Sorry could not relate this opening of the gates to Kalabagh dam!!!
Just one more nail in the coffin of KB hammered in by Punjab (the only province singing KB song...)
@Raavi
Think the relationship is that this once again shows the other provinces Punjab can not be trusted and confirms their fears Punjab will steal Indus water if KB is ever built...
A favorite game among feudals; holders of huge tracts of land in Sindh and Punjab (some parts of Baluchistan). These feudals are also present in our national and provincial assemblies as MNAs and MPAs. Immense power they hold so Kalabagh Dam will never materialize remaining always a controversial issue until and unless a certain limit on land holdings is implemented.
Flood irrigation is a widely practiced system of irrigation in Pakistan that contributes to considerable loss of water both by evaporation and through seepage. In some areas this system is the main reason of rising water table (saim and thor) rendering land uncultivable.
On the other hand a poor farmer is blatantly denied his turn to irrigate his fields. Water is held back or released on order of feudals. Farmers when they do not get water on time it results in a delayed crop. When a late produce will arrive in the market the market price of that product shoots up because of active hoarding. Hoarders are again the feudals and mill owners. Whether it is the mill owner ship of flour, sugar, or oil seed etc they fully manipulate the market because after all they enjoy an upper hand.
Decide how much land a person can legally hold. This might help in solving the Kalabagh issue and an end to this blame game of Punjab stealing Sindh’s share or Sindh not releasing Baluchistan’s share of water.
There won't be miles and miles of land to be worried about!
because every thing ,which is good for the people of Pakistan,somehow has been made complicated ,controversial and impossible ....
thanks to our so called leaders ....
shriq
Member
@Nota,
"Punjab can not be trusted and confirms their fears Punjab will steal Indus water if KB is ever built... "
This trust deficit is the main thing which is the hindrance in KB construction, otherwise KB is the need of time.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Mirza Sahib,
U can take your opportunity to hammer politicians but do u know that why Greater Thal Canal is being built and who has allotments in that area ?
For you kind memory , GTC project was inaugrated by then COAS who by virtue of his office was ruling the country , without approval from Economic coordination committe which is a pre-requisite for any project to be undertaken by federation and which has a lay out of 50m plus (it was back in 2001-2002) .
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Beenai
"because every thing ,which is good for the people of Pakistan,somehow has been made complicated ,controversial and impossible ....
"
Your pakistan only consists of punjab ???
@Sharif aadmi,
i seriously believe that Kala Bagh is good for every Pakistani ....and when i say Pakistani, i mean all Pakistanis...
@Quote
U can take your opportunity to hammer politicians but do u know that why Greater Thal Canal is being built and who has allotments in that area ?
This is exactly what I have tried in way to focus and highlight through my post above. Ways by feudals (even most from top army brass is from or related to feudals).
@Sharif Aadmi
@Semirza
Let us also not forget the Army is today the biggest 'feudal' class (I know for a fact that is true true in Rahim yar Khan district; And funny thing: The canals going to these ex-army men's land are ALWAYS flowing). And doubt the "limit on land holdings" will have an effect there -- since they act collectively as one.
Also, who is going to allow that limit on land holdings when most sitting in parliament are the big land lords? And wasn't that tried once before? Those that I know have ended up with even bigger -- much bigger -- land holdings since.
Just want to mention something I know that is kind of related. Ever heard of Kachi Canal built at a cost of Rs 31.3 Billion? Spin was/is "it is a mega project to benefit Balochistan". Well before it was approved, Farooq Leghari and Rind and some other partners got bought (for pennies as it was wortless without water) tens of thousands of acres in the area that Kachi would irrigate. Once they got qabza, the worked to get it approved, financed, and built. So who does that canal benefit? Balochistan?? Hardly. Only a few of old-time feudals
Dear All
Let me show you another dimension of this.
There is always a threat to Punjab that if Kalabagh Dam is built then pakistan will break and sindh will chose its own route.
This threat is absolute nonsense and I believe Punjab should call this bluff by Sindh and KPK.
Now think of a scenario that Punjab and Sindh are "independent" Countries and Punjab decide to build Kalabagh Dam. What Sindh can do now as Punjab can build as many Dams it like and will be controlling ALL the water of the Sindh. Sindh wouldnt be able to even threat militarily as Punjab will be a very strong Militarily and a nuclear power as well.
God forbid, I am not wishing for this scenario but just trying to portray a picture of the future if Sindh or KPK blackmail Punjab on the issue of Kalabagh Dam. Sindh and KPK has nothing to gain from the threat of disintegration of Pakistan on the issue of Kalabagh Dam.
The issue of Kalabagh Dam must be looked from a Pakistan's point of view and not from provincialism or regional biased point of view. Kalabagh Dam must be built as it is required for the survival of Pakistan and to cater energy needs of Pakistan.
Punjab already has offered that Sindh, KPK and Baluchistan can have their own water monitoring system on Kalabagh Dam and Punjab will not even be part of that water management system.
So what more you want.
FJ
@FJ
But wouldn't that Punjab be a land-locked country? So it will not survive without cooperation of Sindh (or are you thinking "easier" access to a port, say Mumbai?)
And let's not forget if Punjab is ever an independent country, it's borders will end on one bank of Indus...
Dear Nota
I am not for this independent punjab or sindh or whatever. I am for one who even wants the unification of Pakistan and Afghanistan under the name of Khorasan.
I am just trying to show an another dimension that the future could be even worse for Sindh and KPK ( as Hazara would like to annex with Punjab)if they wanted to part their ways with Punjab on the issue of Kalabagh Dam.
Punjab is also on the both sides of the indus.
FJ
nagatorpun
Member
@FJ
Good point. Just one question will you build the Kalabagh in Murri Hills? Or you will invade KPK and then build it.
Before chanting the "Kalabagh is beneficial to all" mantra, have you tried to even study the negative points given by other provinces?
Get a Map and see for you self guys whether KBD is inside Punjab or outside Punjab
I realy wonder on who think that KBD is outside of Punjab. If KBD was outside of Punjab then why Punjab would insist of its building and how would Punjab control the water management. :D
FJ
toamin
member
nag
Kalabagh is a town and union council of Mianwali District in the Punjab
he he he
Kala Bagh Dam ban gaya tou hum sub kis pe larein gayee????
nagatorpun
Member
I think you assume it is the gate which make the dam. I would strongly recommend you to see the complete design. Only turbines and gates will be installed in punjab. The water will be in KPK.
That is one of the major points by KPK against it.
ajhons
Member
Rightnow its raining cats and dogs here in karachi,
Daikha, Kalabagh dam hota to meray ghar k samnay itna pani khara na hota LOL::))
yes ,its raining in Karachi ...
and everybody at office ,wondering ,how we will go back home?
ajhons
Member
me too at office.I've to go all way to N.Nazimabad from Clifton.Normally it took 1 1/2 hrs.Gods knows when will I reach home today.
Hopefully before midnight ::))
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
Kalabagh Dam is not being made, because it;
(1) is for the benefit of people of Pakistan, by that token, for the benefit of the rest of the Muslim UMMAH, and by that token for the benefit of ALL people of this entire world/universe
(2) infringes on interests, designs of;
(a) foreign entities/powers which include Unjust Anglo-Americans (Christians), Zionists/Unjust Jews, Unjust Hindus', and their allies
(b) Unjust local feudals, criminals, traitors, opportunists, collaborators, those who collude with these foreign entities/powers against our interests, against our well-being and their allies
Making Kalabagh Dam would safeguard interests, well-being, designs of people of Pakistan. Which will then ensure interests, well-being, designs of over 1.6 billion Muslims worldwide. Which will then ensure the well-being of ALL people in this entire world.
It is Pakistan + Afghanistan + Iran, whenever people in these Muslim nation states improve their lives, they increase the chances of betterment, freedom, well-being, safety, peace, tranquility, prosperity of the Muslims of ALL of this world, and then in turn for ALL people of this world.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
FJ
Please check your sources. KBD lake will be 80% in punjab and 20% in KPK. Power generation units will be in punjab and all the royalty /net hydel profit will go to punjab.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Harris,
U r doing your duty as being 'bhonpo' of establishment. Carry on.
Anyone who doesn't agree to your ill conceived thinking is "Vnjust local feudals, criminals, traitors, opportunists, collaborators"
But people who in collabroation of Rouge ARMY kill the legitimate pakistanis in Bengal , Balochistan and Sindh are paak saaf. Shame on these GHQ dry cleaned islamists.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Beenai Bibi
"
@Sharif aadmi,
i seriously believe that Kala Bagh is good for every Pakistani ....and when i say Pakistani, i mean all Pakistanis...
"
I respect your oponion but how come your oponion can be of more weight than the oponion of representiaves of 3 federating units ?
3 provincial assemblies/federating units have unianmously passed resolutions against this KBD but still ---oook --- Are we democrats ?
Hey ppl why do we forget our history and facts so quickly....do u ppl seriously think that if an issue hasn't been resolved in decades with strong opposition of three provinces,it would so easily come to a happy ending now?...
why not pressurize da rulers to build small dams atleast in all provinces so noone would have any objection....rather providing opportunities to the corrupt politicians and letting them escape from solving this energy crises by not taking this matter of building any dam seriously,which has almost ruined our economy,our daily lives,education everything...
in mushy da thug time,how many dams were built....in PPP Gov....in two and a half year,how much concerned they looked in building dams?
they must be feeling very happy seeing the general public engaged in this non issue of "Whether its profitable nd possible to build Kalabagh Dam or not"...after all thats what they want from our seedee sadeee awam;)
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Unfortunatley , we forget the history too soon.
KBD issue started during 80's and since then this country has been mostly ruled by 'UNIFORMED politicians' and if civilans have never been transfered powers.
And again , this trust of deficit has started due to continous policy of establhishment (ARMY) to give as much benefit as possible to its base 'the mighty punjab'.
aftab arif
Member
I think what the pro Kalabagh people need to do is just give some political bribes and then watch KP/Sindh change they tune, everything is for sale just a case of naming your price.
RhyMe
"why not pressurize da rulers to build small dams atleast in all provinces so noone would have any objection....rather providing opportunities to the corrupt politicians and letting them escape from solving this energy crises by not taking this matter of building any dam seriously,which has almost ruined our economy,our daily lives,education everything..."
Hear! Hear!! I say build a hundred with collective capacity much more than that of KBD. I clearly don't understand the opposition to small dams...Someone just wants to make a single, big commission...
Sharif Aadmi
Member
another sterotype.
Whoever is not in line with idealogy , is corrupt.
Aftab SAhib,
NOt Everyone is dying for PM ship like 'great khan'. They are people who can leave ministeris for their principle. IF u don't remember , whats about ANP in 74 , 89 and 98 ?
Hard to believe ANP ever had principles...
aftab arif
Member
@ Sharif Aadmi
It's a fair point about ANP leaving government you bowled me on that one.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
For all those having dreams of having small dams as a solution to cater to our needs inside Pakistan, let me inform ALL of you that;
(1) one Kalabagh dam is equal to 750 small dams
(2) Pakistan has only managed to build 68 odd small dams to-date (according to water experts)
(3) Kalabagh dam is not the last dam Pakistan needs. We need many more projects like Kalabagh dam, small dams, run-of-the-river projects, etc etc
(4) To-date Pakistan only has 30 days worth of water storage capacity
That means, if USA/Nato or India or their allies wanted to get rough on us, or force war on us, Pakistan won't have enough water for our agricultural needs. Pakistan won't be able to sustain its resistance at national level for a long period.
(5) over these past decades dam(s) may have been in dispute, but other projects which also include run-of-the-river projects, they are also being ignored by Govt. of Pakistan
What I want to know is why ?!
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Aftab Sahib,
I appreciate that you have acknowleged it.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
nota
I m not speaking of assumptions , i m speaking of hisotrical facts. U can check them if in doubt.
@HarisKhan
Since you yourself stated that"(4) To-date Pakistan only has 30 days worth of water storage capacity"
so for immediate solution wouldn't it be a better choice to build small dams in lesser time?
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Mr.Harris,
Would u quote the source of your info ?
either come up with credibile source or stop propoganda .
@Sharif Aadmi
I am not disputing the facts...just stating an opinion about ANP ;-)
Sharif Aadmi
Member
nota,
Thats the problem. In our hate for someone , we just ignore the facts.
On a lighter note , had i mentioned MQM leaving the govt. , my honoubrable moderator madam beenai and PTI supporters would have exploded at me :)
Anyhow, lets get back to KBD.
@RhyMe
Fully agreed and why not.
Immediate solution or what ever to build small dams in lesser time.
For power generation or for water storage? At what level a dam is able to provide power and water around almost a year?
@nota
This has been the opinion of Panjab since long, ANP was never like this before. It was always a party for principles.
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
@RhyMe: (1) We want ALL possible dams to be built, be them large or small.
(3) Having said that, what large dams can do for Pakistan, no small dam can
I'm in favour of putting up more urgency for work on building large dams before we give attention to small ones. Why ? Because they give far more output for/to our nation, than small dams can ever give.
Small dams alone cannot ensure our survival, our well-being, safeguarding of our interests, our prosperity, our long term goals.
(3) (a) Money, resources, land, man-power, we lack in nothing of these for Kalabagh dam
(b) Kalabagh dam project is estimated at $7 billion. We already have this money. Even if we didn't international institutions/organizations are ready to finance it
(c) Kalabagh dam's ROI (return on investment) is inside 1-2 years time. After that, it all profit for people of Pakistan
So, what's the problem ? What more is there that you want ?
Do you want me to list what Kalabagh dam will do for Pakistan and its people in comparison to small ones ?
--------------------------------------------------------
@Sharif Aadmi: You want proof ? Watch Jawab Deyh – 7 February 2010
Most (if not all) water experts are shouting out loud to go forward with Kalabagh dam.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Shamus mulk is well known for his views on kbd. Please quote some independent source. don't we have any other water expert than shamus ul mulk ?
And do we store 30 days of water ? Thats a ridiculous statment. Mangla fills in july and tarbeela fills in aug (around 10-15 aug) and then we carry this water till end of feb/march. How come u say that its 30 day water storage ?
Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,
You haven't even watched this program, and have started talking.
Most (if not ALL) water experts are shouting out for Kalabagh dam to be built, ASAP.
You are a person who deliberately refuses to accept evidence. Which means you are irrational as well as unreasonable. I will let you be.
@dildar
"It was always a party for principles. "
But then what happened? They learnt through Asfand that "Bayghairti aur maslehat main thora farq hota hai" so decided to erase that too??
Interesting...that claim of KB = 750 small dams also comes from Sham Ul Mulk. Appears to be a figure out of thin air.
He also states "so in this pace, we need 2000 years to construct the said small dams equal to the capacity of Kalabagh." What makes it interesting is what follows. He goes on to add that "China...have constructed big dams beside 20,000 small dams"
Question for Shams ul Mulk: Did it take China -- using his formula ((20,000/750)*2000)-- 53,333.33 years to build them??
Sharif Aadmi
Member
Harris,
I have watched the program and know shams ul mulk for last 20 years .
Now , coming to your claim of 30 days storage , watch the program yourself what he says.
He is speaking that we store water which is worht 30 days of flow of our river system.
NOw , compare it with your gross mis-statemetn and propoganda , and decide yourself.
Sharif Aadmi
Member
nota
If someone (in this ANP) differs with your policy , it doesn't mean he is 'beghariat' or 'maslahat kossh'.
The same could be said about u . If u point finger to someone , 4 point to yourself.
Lets discuss ANP on some other appropriate thread :)
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