Why Muslim world never produced any world class scientists after 1429 AD?

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Why Muslim world never produced any world class scientists after 1429 AD?

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IJay
member

Read this list blow and tell me why 1419 AD we failed to produce any world recognized scientist? what went wrong!

Jabir Ibn Haiyan (Geber) Chemistry (Father of Chemistry) Died 803 C.E.
Al-Asmai Zoology, Botany, Animal Husbandry. 740 - 828
Al-Khwarizmi (Algorizm) Mathematics, Astronomy, Geography. (Algorithm, Algebra, calculus) 770 - 840
'Amr ibn Bahr Al-Jahiz Zoology, Arabic Grammar, Rhetoric, Lexicography 776 - 868
Ibn Ishaq Al-Kindi (Alkindus) Philosophy, Physics, Optics, Medicine, Mathematics, Metallurgy. 800 - 873
Thabit Ibn Qurrah (Thebit) Astronomy, Mechanics, Geometry, Anatomy. 836 - 901
'Abbas Ibn Firnas Mechanics of Flight, Planetarium, Artificial Crystals. Died 888
Ali Ibn Rabban Al-Tabari Medicine, Mathematics, Caligraphy, Literature. 838 - 870
Al-Battani (Albategnius) Astronomy, mathematics, Trigonometry. 858 - 929
Al-Farghani (Al-Fraganus) Astronomy, Civil Engineering. C. 860
Al-Razi (Rhazes) Medicine, Ophthalmology, Smallpox, Chemistry, Astronomy. 864 - 930
Al-Farabi (Al-Pharabius) Sociology, Logic, Philosophy, Political Science, Music. 870 - 950
Abul Hasan Ali Al-Masu'di Geography, History. Died 957
Al-Sufi (Azophi) Astronomy 903 - 986
Abu Al-Qasim Al-Zahravi (Albucasis) Surgery, Medicine. (Father of Modern Surgery) 936 - 1013
Muhammad Al-Buzjani Mathematics, Astronomy, Geometry, Trigonometry. 940 - 997
Ibn Al-Haitham (Alhazen) Physics, Optics, Mathematics. 965 - 1040
Al-Mawardi (Alboacen) Political Science, Sociology, Jurisprudence, Ethics. 972 - 1058
Abu Raihan Al-Biruni Astronomy, Mathematics. (Determined Earth's Circumference) 973-1048
Ibn Sina (Avicenna) Medicine, Philosophy, Mathematics, Astronomy. 981 - 1037
Al-Zarqali (Arzachel) Astronomy (Invented Astrolabe). 1028 - 1087
Omar Al-Khayyam Mathematics, Poetry. 1044 - 1123
Al-Ghazali (Algazel) Sociology, Theology, Philosophy. 1058 - 1111

Abu Bakr Muhammad Ibn Yahya (Ibn Bajjah) Philosophy, Medicine, Mathematics, Astronomy, Poetry, Music. 1106 - 1138
Ibn Zuhr (Avenzoar) Surgery, Medicine. 1091 - 1161
Al-Idrisi (Dreses) Geography (World Map, First Globe). 1099 - 1166
Ibn Tufayl, Abdubacer Philosophy, Medicine, Poetry. 1110 - 1185
Ibn Rushd (Averroes) Philosophy, Law, Medicine, Astronomy, Theology. 1128 - 1198
Al-Bitruji (Alpetragius) Astronomy Died 1204

Parts III, IV."
Ibn Al-Baitar Pharmacy, Botany Died 1248
Nasir Al-Din Al-Tusi Astronomy, Non-Euclidean Geometry. 1201 - 1274
Jalal Al-Din Rumi Sociology 1207 - 1273
Ibn Al-Nafis Damishqui Anatomy 1213 - 1288
Al-Fida (Abdulfeda) Astronomy, Geography, Histrory. 1273 - 1331
Muhammad Ibn Abdullah (Ibn Battuta) World Traveler. 75,000 mile voyage from Morocco to China and back. 1304 - 1369
Ibn Khaldun Sociology, Philosophy of History, Political Science. 1332 - 1395
Ulugh Beg Astronomy 1393 - 1449

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 2:46 #
IJay
member

IMPO:

JO QOUM KARE NAIMAT KA ZIYAN
WOHE QOUM BANAY IBRAT KA NISHAN

AO AHD KAREIN KEY WAFA KAREIN
MAZBOOT ES KE HATH KAREIN

AAB WO DOUR KE RAHO TANHA
KYUN KARTEY RAHAI AQL KA ZIYAN
AOU AHD KARE EK BAR PHER UMAT BAN JAE

SNAGLDIL NA BANO AAB BAS BHI KARO
YE WAQT KARA HAI KUCH HOSH KARO
O SATH CHALAI AUR SATH BARHAI
TANGDASTI HO KUSHALI HO

DUNYA ME QOUM WOHE MANZIL PATI HAI
JO MUSHKIL MAI EK HO JATI HAI
JHANDAY TU SABHI BAN JATEY HAIN
AGAR JURAT HO TABHI LEHRATAI HAIN

MOHTAJ NAE HOTA KOE
JAB US KA DAR KA SWALI HO
KYUN SAJDAY KAREN SO LOGON KO
JAB EK SAJDA SAB PAR BHARI HO

ALAH ALLAH ALLAH!

NA JHUK SAKAI GAEN AGAR HUM SAB ABHI
NA UTH SAKAI GAI HUM PHER KABHI

AO IBRAT LE UN QOUMO SAI
KHO DI IZZAT JO PAE THI KABHI

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 2:47 #
chechen
Member

Ijay, You forget one thing. Those pioneers of sciences were first of all Muslims and their sciences were developed and nourished within the framework of Quran and Hadith. When you open a book of science it started with Bismillah and all creation was recognised to be in perfect order by the infinite Mercy of Allah. There was no confusion like today when the secular sciences cannot even talk about Creator in their Books. It is taboo subject. There is separation of science and religion, politics and religion in contrary to the spirit of Islam. What you see is mostly atheist scientists who don't have clue about creation and Creator.

First you need to Islamacize the politics through Sharia, Sciences through Quran and Sunnah and then only Muslim scientist will make a comeback to regain their lost glory. If you continue to trust in the present secular education devoid of Allah SBT then there will be more disasters.

Like Allama said:

Dhoondne wala sitaroun ki guzargahon ka
apni afkar ki duniya ka safar kar na saka

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 5:03 #
rafi
Member

Reasons are simple; as soon as isolationist and purist strated taking over the religion the innovative approach of the scientist stopped under the fear of prosecution. Remeber Ibne-Tamiyya started his hate based preaching in 13th century.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 5:17 #
ucsher
Member

its funny how we always exaggerate our own little deeds in comparison with the west !

The fact is that every religion in some way or other has been an impediment in the way of science

Remember how Hazrat Umar once ordered to set fire to the libraries in Iraq declaring the content contained by them as "kufr"?
of course you don't say things like that (or simply refute that something like that ever happened [just like 9/11, osama caught on the video taking the responsibility, flogging video etc etc ) in a society like ours , right?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:11 #
netengr
blocked

I am totally against to Differentiate between Muslim and non Muslim in science and technology .This is totally a worldly thing and nothing to do with the religion .Scientist works on things with their knowledge and experience and make inventions .there is nither race amongst scientists on religious basis not scientists work for Jews,Christians or Muslims .

It is same like a carpenter or car mechanic ,If you need them you will get the best one but you will not see his sect,cast,religion etc .

scientist are born in that region where the education and environment helps it is nothing to do with religion .

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:12 #
ucsher
Member

@netenger

very well put ..but what can we do with people whose "religiously racist" glasses can only see the world in Black & White?

i mean what can we do if we are so religiously obsessed people that if mohd. yousuf suddenly hits a purple patch after converting to Islam then we give all the credit to his "conversion"(i mean where else in this world do people give such silly statements??)...Mixing religion WITH sport???? ...however even if we assume that argument is true for a moment then what would we call the gradual failure of Saeed anwar in cricket as he was getting religious?
(that he followed the wrong sect???)
gimme a break!!!
humara kuch nahi husakta !

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:20 #
nagatorpun
Member

@netengr
My dear you can not be more wrong. Religion basically impedes scientific thought as it. Most of the time scientific thought is independent and independent thought is a disaster for religion. So religion any where in the world tries to suppress science.
Watch how one nobel laurate explains this.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:22 #
netengr
blocked

Religion is all spiritual .

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:33 #
netengr
blocked

If I differentiate Muslim or non Muslim ,I would differentiate them by Faith "Emaan and Ammal "

If I differentiate Good or Bad Engineer/scientists/doctor etc I would differentiate on skills ,not based on religion .

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:38 #
ucsher
Member

@netenger
I think the way that we want to see every thing in a strict "muslims, non-muslim" context has more to do with our up-bringings then anything else.. i mean considering how parallel a society pakistan is (i.e in terms of having an overwhelming majority of muslims) i think our parents don't find any problem in telling us dangerous things like "how we being muslims are superior then others", "how we should call our selves muslims and then pakistanis", "how religion should be our first standard to judge any other person" etc etc!...in short, the kind of things that although seem harmless in a parallel society like pakistan but at the same time have a detrimental effect on any pluralistic society where people from different religion are living side by side!

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 7:51 #
netengr
blocked

Inferiority complex ,racism is being used on the name of religion .
boycott alcohol is the religion but boycott Pepsi cola is based on politics and other reasons not the religion

We neither Understand the meaning of religion nor we are good in "dunya " and we like to get the benefits using the name of religion .for Dunaya the rule is who ever will work hard and explore he will get the success this rule apply on humans (not on one religion )
but religion teaches the faith ,taqwa ,prayers .how to close to Allah ,how to get success hereafter ,the real purpose of this dunya etc

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 8:43 #
skyfacts
Blocked

YOU ARE SLAVES.

GHULAMI ME NA KAAM ATHI HAIN TADBEERAIN NA SHAMSHEERAIN.

The approach to set aside religion is not new.Just to made people openly available for freedom.
If this is not the case than pls show me any teachings of islam ,not to do hard work in getting knowledge.

The matter is like that,pls collect the data of slavery ppl from all over the world, of different religions,you will fined them just waitying for every thing from their masters.
why dont you think of your own country where areas under srdars still have no schools and colleges.

THE MASTERS ALWAYS ENSURE THAT SLAVES SHOULD NOT GET ANYTHING OF LIKE,TO PUT THEM IN FREEDOM.
WITHOUT KNOWING THE HISTORY AND FACTS PLS JUST DONT START AGAINST ISLAM.MADE YOUESELF ,EQUIPED WITH THE RIGHT INFORMATION FIRST AND THAN PLS GO INTO SUCH DISCUSSIONS.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 9:26 #
IJay
member

guys

i think we suppose to discuss downfall of islamic science not islam! plz can we do this seriously

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:07 #
netengr
blocked

There is no such thing as Islamic science and non Islamic science .

Is there any thing like Islamic car or non islamic car ?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:10 #
IJay
member

ok wrong islamic science our share or contribution in science ..is this ok! lets discuss

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:13 #
IJay
member

what ingredients you need to produce world class scientist from muslim world?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:14 #
skyfacts
Blocked

GHULAAM QAYADAT KE GALY KAAT DO.

PHIR MERE PAS AJAWO MEETHI NEENDH SO JAYE GAY.
SUB DEVELOPMENTS KHUD BAKHUD HOTHE RAHEn GEE.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:25 #
javedsheikh
Members

The topic of the thread to discuss should be,

"Why Muslim world could not produced world class wise persons, proportioned to their 150 billion population?"

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:26 #
ucsher
Member

@ijay
[[[[what ingredients you need to produce world class scientist from muslim world? ]]]

I don't know about ingredients but first you have to get rid of all the thoughts & tendencies like

"watching t.v is not allowed"

"taking pictures are not allowed"

"making sketches of living beings is haram"

from various sects of islam!!!

Now no matter how well you try to prove that the "actual islam" doesn't forbid a muslim from such activities yet at the end of the day it is also a a fact that ours is perhaps the only religion in this world whose various sects are still debating such anti-science, anti-modern, anti-developmental thoughts and that too in 21st century!

Also, plz don't try to tell me that one can even excel in the field of science without using latest scientific equipments like pictures, tvs, monitors etc ..because deep down inside we all know that one can't!

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 10:53 #
netengr
blocked

I admire Abu Huraira , Hazrat bilal ,Hazrat ali ,imam abu hanifa and others others in religion .

and I admire edition,Einstein in science.

both are different fields

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 11:20 #
semirza
Moderator

since the era mentioned muslims suffered a decline and are still in decline because:
they distanced themselves from Islam

Indulged themselves into a life of leisure
trusted non muslims in affairs where clear directions are that they should never be trusted

This resulted in:
Loss of Spain
Loss of the subcontinent to the British
Turks being routed and Sha'am divided into stooge states
Mulsim states futher divided and subdivided

since then we are involved in infighting, taking sides mostly siding with our very own enemies who are behind the division of Islamic states and our deen. We are so involved that academic progress is virtually at halt since the time mentioned.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 11:31 #
javedsheikh
Members

"they distanced themselves from Islam"

Please stop using this sentence. I am fed up reading and listening the repetition of this meaningless myth.

1. What miracle the people close to Islam, produced?

2. Why, when, where, how and who pushed the Muslims away from Islam?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 11:48 #
semirza
Moderator

Spanish history when muslims ruled, the covert efforts by christanity to weaken the strong moorish character as muslims resulted directly in the downfall of the muslim spain.

Muslims did not produced any miricales but they did brought thinking minds from greeks, jews, muslim and christians together and that brought about that glorious period, nothing short of miracles that we as well as the west still acknowledge.

The inability of realizing or overlooking increasing subversive and covert antimuslim christian elements backed by the church, in muslim courts of spain was the prime reason of their downfall.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 12:04 #
chechen
Member

This excerpt from former CEO of HP sums up the greatness of Islamic Civilizaion. Muslims never had problem with scientific inventions like Christians. We never hear of persecuation of likes of Galileo who was execusted by Church for his scientific beliefs as Bible was full of contradictions ande hence West decided to keep the Bible in Church for Sunday worship and it continues to this day. They separated the religion and science/politics. Muslims had no such dualism and Quran/Hadith reconciled always with scientific inventions to this day. For example Quran used the word Museeyoun for universal expansion. It is recent discoveries by astronomers through hubble telescope that we are learning that the Universe is in reality expanding. Subhanallah. Unfortunately since last 200 years Muslims are blindly aping the secular West and hence the disaster you see.We need to go back to that scientific approach that enabled Muslims to lead the world as beautifully depicted by Carly below. She is addressing top technocrats to follow Islamic pioneers and our Jahils are outright slaves aping th edecadent West.

Enlightened civilizations by Carly Fiorina (HP's CEO)

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Arab mathematicians. And perhaps we can learn a lesson from their example: It Was leadership based on meritocracy, not inheritance. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 13:46 #
semirza
Moderator

@chechen
Very very good stuff. I am really impressed.

'In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness'.

Very inspiring.

After the muslims were thrown out of Spain, they left behind a lot that sparked a revolution in europe. The europeans adopted that leftover science in the form of huge libraries and what they had learned during the muslim rule in Spain. Scientific standards were developed and named after europeans as discoveries. They did not stop here. They despatched explorers to colonize either in the name of christ or under cover of the so called trade, all of the existing muslims world including far off corners of the globe. While there was an industrial revolution going on in europe, in the newly acquiried collonies, all forms of scientific research stopped because of occupation. History was given a twist towards european supermacy. In other words whatever of value, the collonists could lay their hands on, was shipped back as relics. These included among other things a very large number of books in original, and it was made sure that the basic system of learning (in their former colonies now) be changed to a system that favours western values, thus loosing track of their own traditions and values. Prominent academics had lost their lives in exile, labeled as cons, rebels and social outcasts, when they were sent over island jails held by the colonists such as the french, dutch or british guianas or as Indaman Islands commonly known as 'the Kala Pani'.

Even to this day, we are denied education in specialized fields under various excuses while they make sure that the education both religious and academic may never improve in the former colonies that once again we may be able to produce scientists of value instead of clerks and computer coolies.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 14:21 #
chechen
Member

You are correct Brother semimirza. You could not researchin europe until 19th century if you did not know arabic. Medical encyclopedia in arabic written by Muslims was used by Europeans until 19th century. Some of the english words below derived from arabic that is testimony to greatness of Islamic civilizaion.

Some of the English words derived from Arabic

Architecture Chemistry/Medicine caravan divan
acequia alchemy carrack jar
alcohol check massage
Foodstuff,Plants alembic magazine mattress
alfalfa alkali monsoon sofa
apricot amalgam ream Animals
aubergine anilin tariff albacore
artichoke antimony typhoon albatros
banana attar alpaca
barberry azoth Products/Dress baboon
calabash balsam amber camel
candy benzoin atlas civet
caper bismuth baldachin gazelle
carob borax buckram gerbil
caraway camphor carmine giraffe
coffee cinnabar chiffon ghoul
cotton elixir crimson
crocus gypsum cummerbund Warfare
cumin soda damask admiral
ginger talc gauze arsenal
henna intarsia magazine
jasmine Mathematics khaki
julep algebra lacquer Architecture
kebab algorithm macrame adobe
lemon cipher mohair alcazar
lilac sine musk alcove
lime zero muslin balcony
marzipan pajama barbican
mocha Astronomy sandal cupola
muscatel almanac sapphire frieze
myrrh azimuth sash kiosk
orange nadir satin ogive
rice zenith sequin
safflower taffeta Miscelleneous
saffron Star Names zircon azure
sesame aldebaran Music checkmate
shebet altair fret chess
sorbet betelgeuse guitar hazard
spinach vega & many others lute jungle
sugar rebeck kismet
sumac Commerce tambor mascara
syrup admiral tambourine mummy
tamarind average racket
tarragon bazaar Objects rook
tulip caliber cable safari
yoghurt carat carefe talisman

Sorry pasted from an excel file

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 14:27 #
semirza
Moderator

No need to be sorry brother, this was much needed for those brothers who happen to be (with apologies) prisoners of their own minds. Each and every word you have mentioned is a living history in itself.

As a thought, forgetting one's own history is a crime on par as remaining and existing in history. We should come forward with applicable solutions to such multiple catch 2 situations the muslim world is facing currently. I firmly belive that Allah (swt) has gifted our brothers on this forrum with this ability along with other qualities.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 14:46 #
chechen
Member

Prestigious University in US confirms that the quasi crystalline geometric design known to early Muslims was discovered recnetly by Western Scientist.

"It shows us a culture that we often don't credit enough was far more advanced than we ever thought," contends Harvard graduate student Peter J. Lu, who studied the question after a vacation in Uzbekistan left him marveling at the tilework.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2007-02-22-islamic-tiles_x.htm?csp=34

Geometry meets arts in medieval Islamic tile

WASHINGTON (AP) — Those wondrously intricate tile mosaics that adorn medieval Islamic architecture may cloak a mastery of geometry not matched in the West for hundreds of years.

Historians have long assumed that sheer hard work with the equivalent of a ruler and compass allowed medieval craftsmen to create the ornate star-and-polygon tile patterns that cover mosques, shrines and other buildings that stretch from Turkey through Iran and on to India.

Now a Harvard University researcher argues that more than 500 years ago, math whizzes met up with the artists and began creating far more complex tile patterns that culminated in what mathematicians today call "quasi-crystalline designs."

Quasicrystal patterns weren't demonstrated in the West until the 1970s.

"It shows us a culture that we often don't credit enough was far more advanced than we ever thought," contends Harvard graduate student Peter J. Lu, who studied the question after a vacation in Uzbekistan left him marveling at the tilework.

This isn't run-of-the-mill geometry. Quasi-crystals are made by fitting together a set of shapes, including five- and 10-sided shapes, into patterns that, unlike typical tile floors, don't repeat.

In Friday's edition of the journal Science, Lu and Princeton physicist Paul Steinhardt report finding a set of polygon-shaped tiles — a decagon, pentagon, diamond, bowtie and hexagon — that were arranged into distinctive patterns found on major Islamic buildings from the 12th through 15th centuries.

Examining architectural scrolls that were essentially training manuals for the time period, he found hand-drawn outlines of the five shapes. And when he combed through thousands of photos of medieval Islamic buildings, he found that same set of shapes increasingly used over the years to make ever-more complex patterns, including a seemingly true quasicrystal by 1453.

It's not the first time such a link has been suggested.

But if it's right, "this would be a hitherto undiscovered episode in the spectacular developments of geometry in central Islamic lands ... achieved by artisans probably inspired by theoretical mathematicians," said Islamic art specialist Oleg Grabar.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 15:18 #
javedsheikh
Members

Unfortunately we as Muslims are left with celebrating our Past.
What should make me feel proud if some of Arabic words are included in the English dictionary?
Just count how many inventions and discoveries the non-Muslims made by accepting the reality of an evolutionary learning process?
Please print a list about the contributions of Muslims to the Humanity for the last 500 years?
(One Dr. Abdul Salam, an Internationally acknowledged scientist was kicked out of Pakistan for being a Qadyani.
The person who earned the Nobel Prize in the World, was gifted with the title of Kafir in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.)
What I would gain to stay proud if 'my father was king' where I am penniless?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:22 #
netengr
blocked

An Engineering University produced Engineers
Medical University provides doctors
Universities make Scientists

Islam Is the religion and religion is based on spirituality ,Islam has produces lots of Noble ,honest ,honest ,faithful personalities who made great influence in the society .

Science is for all and it is open ,it is nothing to do with the religion ,I do not agree to separate professionals on the basis of religion .

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:31 #
nagatorpun
Member

One interesting fact some of these Muslim scientists were persecuted by maulvis in the name of islam. One was even killed by his son, because his one islamic scholar declared him kafir... Hahahah these maulvis now claim them their own...

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:39 #
chechen
Member

We are not celeberating the past. We are trying to figure out the causes that led to the decline. Even CEO like Carly Fiorina are advising the technocrats to learn and follow the early Muslims in these "dark" times.

Scientific progress has improved the quality of life in West but has failed to provide answers to the real purpose of life and hence the turmoil and decadence. Millions of Americans are saying thet West is on brink of collapse due to moral, spritual degradation and we are trying foolishly to cling to that sinking Titanic. Look at the social breakdown in West. Millions of single mothers, broken families, rape every 30 seconds, murders in tens of thousands, gay life style ( 20 million just in US). They need a cure to address thse issues and we are shying away from giving them that cure.

Once again as Allama said (although space exploration was just begiining during his time)

Dhoonde wala sitaroun ki guzargaahon ka
Apni afkaar ki duniya ka safar kar na saka

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:40 #
chechen
Member

Regarding those corrupt Moulvis, Allama had this to say:

Ye do rakaat ke Imam kya jaane mulkoun ki Imamat kya hoti hai

Madrasas need to ramp their curriculam but does not mean we embrace godless secular education devoid of Almighty God

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:43 #
skyfacts
Blocked

netengr

This is westren approach to kick out the religion from ur life and made religion responsible for every evil.
They kicked out thier religion ,they were right cuz their religion was not having a go with changing life day by day.
But islam claims, having all the solutions of our life.
So why should we accept kick out him from our lives.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:44 #
nagatorpun
Member

abu Uthman al-Jahith (781-869), an intellectual of East African descent, was the first to speculate on the influence of the environment on species. He wrote: “Animals engage in a struggle for existence; for resources, to avoid being eaten and to breed. Environmental factors influence organisms to develop new characteristics to ensure survival, thus transforming into new species. Animals that survive to breed can pass on their successful characteristics to offspring.”

There is no doubt that it qualifies as a theory of natural selection – even though the Book of Animals appears to have been based to a large extent on folklore rather than on zoological fact.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:44 #
Potohari
Blocked

Well we all need a reality check most Muslim scientists faced gallows. Authoritarians banned philosophy as unislamic for more than 500 years in Muslims. Even today some religious political movements likes of Jamat e Islami think getting scientific knowledge is unislamic. We need to reform our interpretation of religion to be more fruitful in life.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:44 #
nagatorpun
Member

We still had problems in accepting sound science(evolution) because maulvis want to keep the ideas of bible still in islam. Though it was a muslim who first proposed something akin to evolution.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:46 #
chechen
Member

Potohari, What "scientific knowledge"? We have to be clear in our interpretation of knowledge. Scientific knowledge says man originated from monkeys and apes and is still "evolving". Do we accept that theory of evolution?

What Islamic thinkers say is to place knowledge where it belongs- under the framework of Quran and Science.

Let's take an example. Scientist claim that Universe originated after a big bang based on big bang theory. Anyone can question that. Let us say someone asks' What about universe before big bang? What was there before? Science cannot answer that. But as a Muslim we have answers.

Allah says in Quran:

Allahu Badius Samaawati fil ard

Allah is the orignator of heavens and the earth. We can reconcile with that Ayat from Allah SBT but a scientist gets confused and in unable to comprehend the nature and originof Universe.

Another good example about end of the Universe- Qiyamat

Science says our sun in the solar system is exhausting 4,000,000 tons of mass per second due to nuclear explosions in its core but definitely the sun is slowly loossing its energy or fuel. Scientists say we do not have to worry about that as it will be another millions of years before suns loses all its energy. As a Muslim and a Believer we have better answer based on Quran and Hadith that there is end to our life and there is end to all forms of life as we know. Even the sun and billions of sun in countless galaxies are going to "die".

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 16:58 #
nagatorpun
Member

We are screwed royally..... I dont think we will produce anyone in next 1000 years if we go on thinking like this.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:00 #
nagatorpun
Member

Nine centuries before Charles Darwin, the Baghdad scientist-historian al-Masudi spoke of the process of evolution from mineral, to plant, to animal, to human being. His 10th-century foundational concepts were gradually inherited by Western scholars and only reached fruition with Darwin in the 1800s.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:02 #
nagatorpun
Member

we screwed because we are still not willing to accept science as it is even though many of our scientists said these things 1000 years ago. I have no hope for a modern muslim scientist as he will be declared a kafir the instance he will declare something revolutionary...

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:04 #
Potohari
Blocked

@chechen so what is your alternative theory on evolution? Please don't prat,verbal bulls***.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:04 #
chechen
Member

Potohari, What theory? Man is a man as he was at the time of his creation- Adam AS and he will remain a man until doomsday.

Why we need a theory of evolution when man/woman really is not "evolving". If man evolved from apes and monkeys to a man as scientist claim there are still lots of apes and monkeys. Why they did not not evolve?

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:09 #
Potohari
Blocked

Well I am not a biologist, I don't think I am qualified enough to answer your question, I have heard likes of your arguments from evangalists before. I still think Charles Darwins theory is potent.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:12 #
semirza
Moderator

Theory of evolution is no more.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:24 #
nagatorpun
Member

Evolution is the only theory that explains life perfectly. There is no alternative. If evolution would have been wrong then more than half of your medical science will be thrown out and you will have no way of creating new medicines. Bacterias and viruses will stop evolving to counter these medicines too.
Real interesting part is that now a days evolutionary theory is applied in all sciences to design better and advanced technology.
I would suggest anybody who does not believe in evolution should stop using any product designed on the basis of evolutionary theory. I mean most new medicines and genetic treatments. oh one more thing you should ask the ulema to burn all the books on biology and discard all the evidence.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:25 #
chechen
Member

Darwinists claim we evolved from the simplest form of bacterial life to ever more complex forms of life. The most basic bacteria had less than 500 genes; man has over 22 thousand. In order for bacteria to evolve into man, organisms would have to be able to add genes. But there is no genetic mechanism that adds a gene. (Mutations change an existing gene but never add a gene.) This means there is no mechanism for Darwinian Evolution and this is a fatal flaw in the Theory of Evolution.

The Theory of Evolution in a nutshell is "Survival of the fittest." But most mammals and birds give birth to helpless babies - instead of strong and fit ones. Neither Darwinism nor Neo-Darwinism can explain infantile helplessness. Every baby that is born contradicts Evolution Theory and this is a fatal flaw

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:35 #
nagatorpun
Member

The evolution is wrong mantra is more like the the thing when ulema used to say that loud speaker was designed by shaitan and it is haram to use it.

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:37 #
chechen
Member

Don't quote those Ulemas who were Mulla ki doud masjid tak or as Allama said

ye do rakat ke immam kya jaane mulkoun ki imamat kya hoto hai.

It is like the Domla Jew Ata turk who found fault with all mullas in order to eradicate Caliphate. It was said about Turks "they loved Islam more than they understood it". Rather than critical study what went wrong he blindly imitated the western nationalistic model forgetting that there were millions of his ethnic kin- Turks living in Cenral Asia. His fake nationalism resulted in counter Arab nationalism and the rotten landscapr you see of Muslim world today.

As Allama said

Utha kar phek dee turk e nadaan ne khilafat ki chob ko
Apnoun ki naadani bhee dekh auronki ayyari bhee dhek

Posted 3 years ago on 23 May 2009 17:45 #