Why muslims are not allowed to be friend with non-muslims?

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Why muslims are not allowed to be friend with non-muslims?

(43 posts)

LifeH2O
Member

Are muslims allowed to make friends in non-muslims?
If not, why?

What about trading with them?

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 10:05 #
shafiq12
member

Your question are exposing your hypocrisy?..... They aren't making you genius..... I am sure if today muslim were in power then you would be on the side of muslims by putting same question to weak party? It seems you are in process to quit islam but aren't able to make your mind.... in your limited life--with you limited knowledge and ideas which are infected by a disease which has no cure......You are making yourself ready to be crucified on an altar which in reality has no existence?

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 10:50 #
barackosama
Member

It seems you are in process to quit islam but aren't able to make your mind.

:):)

You are making yourself ready to be crucified on an altar which in reality has no existence?

hilarious!

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 11:22 #
LifeH2O
Member

@oblivion
I suppose that crap was not an answer to my question.

This kind of response is the reason which makes that christian molvi better. Very common response given by a molvi.

Thanks for writing and depicting your thought process.

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 13:10 #
LifeH2O
Member

.

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 13:13 #
thedude
Member

dividing the whole humanity into two camps is ...

i don't wanna say any more ... is it any different from dividng them into shudra (hindu untouchables) and non-shudra?

humans are not good or evil ... all humans have good nature and evil nature in them to a certain agree

@LifeH2O you can make as many friends you like ... ;)

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 13:43 #
NNL
member

O you who believe! Take not as (your) Bitanah (advisors, consultants, protectors, helpers, friends) those outside your religion (pagans, jews, Christians, and hypocrites) since they will not fail to do their best to corrupt you. They desire to harm you severely. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, but what their breasts conceal is far worse. Indeed We have made plain to you the Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses) if you understand.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #118)

O you who believe! Take not the jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers), they are but Auliya' of each other. And if any amongst you takes them (as Auliya'), then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).
( سورة المائدة , Al-Maeda, Chapter #5, Verse #51).

Have you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) not seen those (hypocrites) who take as friends a people upon whom is the Wrath of Allah (i.e. jews)? They are neither of you (Muslims) nor of them (jews), and they swear to a lie while they know.
( سورة المجادلة , Al-Mujadila, Chapter #58, Verse #14)

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 18:15 #
NNL
member

Will that be sufficient for you Life ?

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 18:15 #
LifeH2O
Member

So trading with them is also not allowed?
And as we are using almost every thing made by them, is wrong?

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 20:18 #
NNL
member

As far as i know Trading with them is allowed. But keeping ties with them is not allowed.

Any ties which may eventually lead you to be affected by these people is condemned in Islam.

The answer to your question why
Cos Allaah Azza wa Jal Said so.

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 20:40 #
barackosama
Member

I see multani "virtual" moments.

Posted 10 months ago on 11 Jul 2011 20:41 #
shafiq12
member

NNL
You posted some verses of quran out of context.... People aren't born with knowledge.
As far question is concerned

Are muslims allowed to make friends in non-muslims?

The question is quite clear, He is talking about personal friendship.... and answer which your out of context verses portray is "no, muslim aren't not allowed"... NNL very poor understanding of Quran.... I ain't scholar of quran let me clear you... Arabic word for friends is "أولياء "... It has following meaning
a Allies;
b Friends;
and c Guardians
Now take this as example
http://quran.com/60/13

the word "تتولو ", is drived from root word "أوليا".

the singular of "أوليا" is "Waliy" which means "guardian"... You your parents are your guardian... So the word "Awliyaa" has different meaning.. in 60:13 لا تتولو قومن simply means
take not as allies a tribe (or a community)
which prove that the word أوليا" used in the verses mean as "alliance" not "personal friendship"

There isn't anything wrong in making a personal friendship with a non-Muslim in order to guide about Islam.....

Will that be sufficient for you Life ?

No, that isn't sufficient because learned scholar of islam are making enemies in the name of God---in the name of love ----- in the name of mercy---- in the name of most merciful God.

http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/isnt-the-ban-of-non-muslims-in-mecca-and-madina-shows-intolorence#post-251043

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 4:44 #
shafiq12
member

I suppose that crap was not an answer to my question.

This kind of response is the reason which makes that christian molvi better. Very common response given by a molvi.

Thanks for writing and depicting your thought process.

Islam has always been victim of hypocrisy.
see title of your thread... It seems in the "title" you have already made up your mind that muslim aren't allowed to be friend with non-muslims.

1. Why muslims are not allowed to be friend with non-muslims?

What your title is portraying, what you typed in side the box

2.Are muslims allowed to make friends in non-muslims?

Hypocrisy is the right of every freethinker?

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 4:59 #
barackosama
Member

Please see Ibn Kathir.

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 8:44 #
shafiq12
member

ibn khathir was human like many human, he wasn't messenger of God......God has given conscience to every human....So use your conscience ... Do you follow interpretation of khathir /Madoodi or message of Prophet. Quran is very clear in this regard. Prophet was so kind and merciful to his people whether they were muslims and non muslims....He didn't make them feel he was their enemy as you are making.....

As far personal friendship is concerned you will see a lot of non-muslim converted to islam because that personal friendship while arguing their muslim friends.

here is good example

Now if the person who caused his christian friend to be muslim, had followed the interpretation of ibn kathir then i am sure the christian wouldn't be muslim....

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 9:16 #
shafiq12
member

bO....
Have you ever used your own mind rather copy pasting interpretations?.....

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 9:18 #
barackosama
Member

@Oblivion

Do you follow interpretation of khathir /Madoodi or message of Prophet.

Tell me about the message of the Prophet SAW on friendship with non-Muslims. Specifically, I need names of Sahabas RA with references in 13 years of Makkan life who befriended with the mushrikeen. I need names of Sahabas RA who had Jews their buddies in Madina. I need names of Sahabas RA who used to hang around with Munafiqeen in Madina. Consider the conversion rate of people to Islam at those times too.

God has given conscience to every human....So use your conscience

So is it conscience to you that is superior when following Islam comes or the Prophet SAW?

Now if the person who caused his christian friend to be muslim, had followed the interpretation of ibn kathir then i am sure the christian wouldn't be muslim....

Sure, who is Ibn Kathir, he speaks of his whims, he has no references from ahadith, he does not quote Tabi'een, statements of preceded scholars. His tasfir is not regarded the highest in all Islamic world.

You champion of context, when you see a verse, you wanna see how it was interpreted, practiced and used by the Prophet SAW and his companions who had more understanding than you conscious of conscience. The practice of the Prophet SAW and his companions on the verses on friendship happen to be quite obvious to track back the attitude of the Prophet SAW and his companions toward non-muslims. You can agree to that historic record if your conscience approves!

Remember I thanked you of coming out of closet and now you know why.

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 9:32 #
shafiq12
member

Tell me about the message of the Prophet SAW on friendship with non-Muslims

i will mention you prophet and his good relation with a jew....Leave the Sahabas for moment... The prophet comes first

Narrated Aisha (ra): “The Prophet (sa) died while his armor was mortgaged to a Jew for thirty units of barley.”

[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 743]

عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ تُوُفِّيَ النَّبِيُّ صلى الله عليه وسلم

also clear your concept friendship
The tendency to desire what is best for the other
Sympathy and empathy
Honesty, perhaps in situations where it may be difficult for others to speak the truth, especially in terms of pointing out the perceived faults of one's counterpart
Mutual understanding and compassion
Trust in one another (able to express feelings - including in relation to the other's actions - without the fear of being judged); able to go to each other for emotional support
Positive reciprocity - a relationship is based on equal give and take between the two parties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship

So is it conscience to you that is superior when following Islam comes or the Prophet SAW?

NO it is the conscience of Ibe Khathir on which you are blindly relying...So at least use your conscience in following conscience of ibne Kathir........
============================================
Here is another good example

The story of woman who used to throw garbage on the Prophet whenever he went by her house, portrays the picture of a person with deep love for even those who would actively oppose him. One day when the woman became sick, the Prophet not seeing her there became concerned for her and went to visit her

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 9:49 #
gv
Member

@oblivion

sir today i have the utmost respect for your position! i concur 100%

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 11:11 #
barackosama
Member

@Oblivion

What a spin!

Two different things friendship and business are! Dear, in your first example, was the Jew friend of Prophet SAW?

In your second example, was Prophet SAW friend of the old woman? Can you provide a reference to this wonderful story?

These are examples of honest dealing and good behavior in general and the topic is about friendship. Looks like you did not bother reading the wiki article link you posted on friendship. At least see the pictures, genius. I guess your insurance agent, janitor and grocer would be your friends. You hang out with them?

Plain chawal arguments to the subject.

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 12:15 #
gv
Member

@bo

I always find it surprising when someone of your (apparent) intelligence takes such hardline views.

The picture i have gleaned of the prophet from his biographies portrays a gentle, sympathetic and tolerant man who sought to unite people under a banner of justice and equality.

the picture you seem to have in your mind to me is of a completely different individual..

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 17:14 #
barackosama
Member

gv,

I have no question about the persona of the Prophet SAW as you described. But I also believe that he delivered the message to his level best. He also fought (jehad), executed folks and cut their hands, etc. It is a fact whether you like or not, agreed by Shias, Sunnis and Qadiyanis. He did not let his personality get in the way when it came to the command of Allah. He was tough when it came to establish the divine law. Why a chilling message can't be delivered thru a gentle soul?

I mean .. come on, do you find it hard when America electrocutes folks popping their eyeballs out, when it drone attacks us for only getting few terrorists .. and at the same time it is bighearted liberal, champ of liberty, freedom. America is all that, no doubt but it is also tough when it comes to law and order and protection. I say we have same deal in Islam.

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 21:00 #
gv
Member

@bo

i have no doubts that the prophet dealt firmly (as per the prescribed law) with trangressors. however the overarching thrust of his message seems to be to tolerance and humanism not superiority and disdain for others. - in short do not do unto others as you would not have them do to you

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 23:03 #
barackosama
Member

Ok, then leave it at that.

We don't disdain them. In fact we have been rather impressed with them all along outside of the religious aspect. Even at the Prophets SAW time adopted many of their techno and other things. Look, the Prophet SAW came after fall of Khyber and ate with the Jews who had invited him on their defeat. The Sahabas were with him. If we disdain them we wouldn't do such things.

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 23:10 #
Faarigh Jazbati
member

As per my understanding, the prohibition of friendship with non muslims refers to as nation and not as individuals.

Abbas ra was still non muslim when prophet saw used to take him with him to visit tribes and even at the time of second pledge of aqabah with the people of madinah, Abbas ra was present and he was non muslim at that time.

If we look into at nation/state level, even then there does not have to be hostile relation with everyone. Thats why there are differentiation at state level as kaafir harbi amlan, kaafir harbi fi'lan, kaafir harbi amlan wa fi'lan, and kaafir ghair harbi.

fj

Posted 10 months ago on 12 Jul 2011 23:16 #
gv
Member

"Look, the Prophet SAW came after fall of Khyber and ate with the Jews who had invited him on their defeat. The Sahabas were with him. If we disdain them we wouldn't do such things. "

im not doubting the prophet's level of tolerance im doubting yours?

Posted 10 months ago on 13 Jul 2011 0:06 #
barackosama
Member

Do you want me to tell you about how I party with them (my non-Muslims friends)? I do, I'm guilty but I always have the context in mind that I attached. I don't make them my confidants, I don't share secrets. I know if things change they can come and strike back as the second attachment explains. They also well understand who really I'am and what has been my background. Let's be clear, it goes both ways. There is a buffer that needs to be understood. They don't ask about four wives and I dun ask about Lot having sex with his daughters in Bible.

Posted 10 months ago on 13 Jul 2011 0:20 #
shafiq12
member

Two different things friendship and business are! Dear, in your first example, was the Jew friend of Prophet SAW?

See barrack bukhari is full with such example which show friendship/good relations with non muslims.... Peace, tolerance, compassion,friendship and good relationships are the normal, and original state between Muslims and Non-Muslims. Islam promotes and protects this good relationship. Where you and your kind opposes this relation by creating negative effect on the minds of non-muslims....
Who are you following Barrack? interpretation i guess. No, one can change your mind because prejudice is very hard to change. You had already made up you to show Islam as religion of hatred and cruelty...
gv

the picture you seem to have in your mind to me is of a completely different individual..

Interpretations has made him completely different individual. He has read the quran by mind of Ibn Kathir/interpreters, he hadn't used his own brain while understanding Quran.... Poor Barrackobama, doesn't know, the environment in which Ibn Khathir had interpreted quran is completely different than of this age.... I ain't enemy of Ibn Khathir, no doubt he was greatest scholar of Quran at his time, He had done a great job but he lived in totally different society than we are facing today.......and Barrackobama is applying his conscience/his thoughts to a society which is 100 % different society as compared to society of ibn Kathir.....

Posted 10 months ago on 13 Jul 2011 5:06 #
LifeH2O
Member

If the reason is that they can be unfair with us? What about musim friends, they too pull,legs and back stab.

Posted 10 months ago on 13 Jul 2011 8:33 #
barackosama
Member

@oblivion

See barrack bukhari is full with such example which show friendship/good relations with non muslims
..
..
..
No, one can change your mind because prejudice is very hard to change.

Stick to friendship. Nobody argues about good relations which you like a bonehead keep dragging in. We have good relations with India and America, are we really friends? Is distinction between friendship and good relationship rocket science to you? Show me some examples in Bukhari on "friendship." which it is "full of", gee I missed that!

Posted 10 months ago on 14 Jul 2011 17:34 #
shafiq12
member

Bo
Clear your concept of friendship...cleary!! You don't know... ..... Good relations are key step in friendship
if you have tendency to desire what is best for the other.... it is also friendship..... and that's what Prophet had done in his whole life.... and you are indirectly saying that Prophet had never wished what is best for the others..... Clear your prejudices...because ignorance is stubborn and prejudices are hard

Posted 10 months ago on 15 Jul 2011 4:52 #
wdurrani
Member

@LifeH2o
Allaah says in surah 5 in the following aayah:

(57. O you who believe! Do not take as friends those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from those who received the Scriptures before you, and (nor) the disbelievers; and have Taqwa of Allah if you indeed are true believers. ) (58. And when you proclaim the call for the Salah, they take it (but) as a mockery and fun; that is because they are a people who understand not.)

This Ayah discourages and forbids taking the enemies of Islam and its people, such as the People of the Book and the polytheists, as friends. These disbelievers mock the most important acts that any person could ever perform, the honorable, pure acts of Islam which include all types of good for this life and the Hereafter. They mock such acts and make them the subject of jest and play, because this is what these acts represent in their misguided minds and cold hearts. Allah said;

(from those who received the Scriptures before you and (nor) the disbelievers...) This is to clarify the particular category (of disbelievers). As Allah said,

(So shun the evil of the idols...) ﴿22:30﴾ So some recited it "Kuffari'', making it an object of the preposition, and others recited it "Kuffara'', making it a predicate noun;

(Take not as friends those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from those who received the Scriptures before you...) with the meaning of "nor'',

(nor the disbelievers as friends) That is, do not take these people nor those people as friends. The meaning here of "Kuffar'' ﴿disbelievers﴾ is idolators. Similarly, Ibn Jarir recorded that in the recitation of Ibn Mas`ud ﴿in place of "Kuffar'' he recited it: "and those who commit Shirk. Allah's statement,

(And have Taqwa of Allah if you indeed are true believers.) means, fear Allah and do not take the enemies of you and your religion as friends, if you believe in Allah's Law and religion that these people mocked and jested about. Allah said in another Ayah,

(Let not the believers take the disbelievers as friends instead of the believers, and whoever does that, will never be helped by Allah in any way, except if you indeed fear a danger from them. And Allah warns you against Himself, and to Allah is the final return.)

Posted 10 months ago on 23 Jul 2011 15:16 #
LifeH2O
Member

@wdurrani
Muslims themself make mockery of religion, scripture, and Allah himself by their acts, what about them?

Posted 10 months ago on 24 Jul 2011 10:58 #
SufiSoul
Member

Muslims remains too weak in their FAITH.
Non-believers are so strong in their Shaitanism.
So we are not allowed to be friends with them.
Look at muslims who are liberal,secular and if you trace them back they will be frieds with non-believers,studying non-believers and this made them same as non-believers....

Posted 10 months ago on 24 Jul 2011 11:06 #
wdurrani
Member

@LifeH20
You should not take such bad Muslims as friends either.

Posted 10 months ago on 24 Jul 2011 15:56 #
LifeH2O
Member

@wdurrani So if a non-muslim is not doing all that, their should be no problem.

Posted 10 months ago on 25 Jul 2011 7:18 #
wdurrani
Member

@LifeH20

A non-muslim is committing much more serious sin/crime called shirk. Allaah called shirk to be the greatest "zulm" in Quran. It the greatest injustice and crime that a person can do to itself or others. Shirk is an unforgivable sin unless a person repents before his/her death. Any other sin will be forgiven either without punishment or after the punishment. But the punishment for the shirk or not-believing in Allaah will never be forgiven.

You are a given a choice in this world. Just be aware that you will held responsible for the choices you make in this life.

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 3:01 #
shafiq12
member

wduraani
You logic is flawed....
You said

Allaah called shirk to be the greatest "zulm" in Quran

How does the non believer know that Allah called shirk to be the greatest "zulm" in Quran if you are enemy of them..... If as a friend you guide the non-believers to islam and its message then there nothing wrong with it----keep your hatred to yourself.... Islam is is religion of peace and your making enemies in the name of Islam.....

(57. O you who believe! Do not take as friends those who take your religion for a mockery and fun from those who received the Scriptures before you, and (nor) the disbelievers; and have Taqwa of Allah if you indeed are true believers. ) (58. And when you proclaim the call for the Salah, they take it (but) as a mockery and fun; that is because they are a people who understand not.)

The uses of word "friends" in your translation is out of context because the word "oliya" in quran have different meaning.....

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 7:18 #
wdurrani
Member

@oblivion

Cool down mate. You are getting a bit extra "jazbati". You do not need to be someone's "friend" to talk to them in a nice manner, and to be just and honest with them.

Friend is one of the meanings of "Awliya". It also means helpers and supporters.

How many non-Muslim friends did Prophet Muhammad salAllaahu alaihi wa sallaam made in his efforts to call them to Islaam? How many friends did sahaaba made? But they spread the Islaam with their good manners and honest business dealings.

I live in Australia and because of my business I have to deal with non-Muslims daily. I don't take them as my friend but I talk to them nicely, and am honest in my business dealings with them. When they ask about Islam I explain them as much as I am able to.

Ahmed Faraz said:

tum takalluf kou bhe ikhlaas samajhtay hou faraz
dost (friend) hota naheen har haath milaanay waala

Make sure you select your friends carefully.

Have fun.

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 10:51 #
shafiq12
member

wduranni
I am always in cool mood.... see, the avatar ;)

Cool down mate. You are getting a bit extra "jazbati". You do not need to be someone's "friend" to talk to them in a nice manner, and to be just and honest with them

See, that's is what friendship.... Friends are honest with each other---- doesn't it mean that you should share your secret with them-- You are completly trusted by non believer about your daily life--- this is how you will convinced them about Islam---- Now if a non muslim read your post i am sure, he would made his mind against islam

How many non-Muslim friends did Prophet Muhammad salAllaahu alaihi wa sallaam made in his efforts to call them to Islaam? How many friends did sahaaba made? But they spread the Islaam with their good manners and honest business dealings.

Define friendship-- if you have tendency to desire what is best for the other---

I live in Australia and because of my business I have to deal with non-Muslims daily. I don't take them as my friend but I talk to them nicely, and am honest in my business dealings with them. When they ask about Islam I explain them as much as I am able to.

You are being friendly with them that's why they asked you about islam, if you aren't then i am sure they wouldn't ask--- That is all what friendship..... You are not their enemy, you want what is best for them--- You are honest with---that is what all friendship requires--- If you have some special definition then i don't know

tum takalluf kou bhe ikhlaas samajhtay hou faraz
dost (friend) hota naheen har haath milaanay waala

وہ فريب خوردہ شاہيں کہ پلا ہو کرگسوں ميں
اسے کيا خبر کہ کيا ہے رہ و رسم شاہبازي
کوئي کارواں سے ٹوٹا ، کوئي بدگماں حرم سے
کہ امير کارواں ميں نہيں خوئے دل نوازي

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 11:07 #
wdurrani
Member

@oblivion

I think you have understood my point of view. We are not discussing linguistics here.

If you are really keen about this issue. You should study the subject of "al wala wal bara" in the shariah.

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 12:31 #
NNL
member

Oblivion said

If as a friend you guide the non-believers to islam

What evidence do you have to support that you can a person to Islam by being friends with them ?

By evidence here i mean evidence from the Life of Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Alaa Alayhi wa Sallam and from the Sahaba Radhi Allaah Unhum.

And please explain what do you mean by guide ?

Posted 10 months ago on 26 Jul 2011 15:57 #
shafiq12
member

I think you have understood my point of view. We are not discussing linguistics here.

What makes you to think like that---

wdurrani & NNL

If you arenot friendly/honest/frank with non-believer than they would never listen to you..... NNL, the Prophet always created a friendly environment in order to preach islam to non believers..... What makes you to deny that------- The non believer always put trust on him why because he was always friendly/peaceful with them.... He never made them feel that he was their enemy---- as you preaching!!

http://quran.com/5/56

The Arabic word for "Ally" of Allah is "hizb", which means Alliance, for example "Hizballah" in Lebanon, which means "The Alliance of Allah".

above verse says that Muslims must create their alliances only with God Almighty, Last Prophet and his followers. He is loser who takes an alliance other than God .
The Verse above doesn't order that Muslims can not have personal friends with non-Muslims. It orders that Muslim communities/countries aren't allowed to form alliance with the non-Muslims against other Muslims.

See, that's what your beloved Pakistan had done..... You people are telling that muslim shouldn't be friends with non believers but when time comes you give your land to help kuffar rather forming alliance with Allah---- see the irony--- Who cares for this hypocrisy---

And please explain what do you mean by guide ?

Islam as a complete code of conduct to guide other..... if your sole purpose of friendship with a non believer is to convince him about islam then quran doesn't prohibited such friendship, its your interpretations which are making islam more complicated....

Posted 10 months ago on 27 Jul 2011 5:35 #