PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Why Shia Sunni fight all the time in Pakistan

(414 posts)
  1. azizi

    Why Shia Sunni fight all the time in Pakistan

    The other day I asked my Shia friends about the root cause of recent (I meant the last forty years of) violence between the two groups in Pakistan. Even though I consider my Shia friends highly articulate, I felt, they were all shy in telling me the truth. When I asked my Sunni friends of their grievances about Shia, they mostly complained that Shia do not respect the companions of the Prophet. They believe in this, they believe in that, they do this and they do that.

    As far as the issue of companions of the Prophet, I have not heard any of my Shia friends saying anything good or bad about them (exclude Ali, Fatima (r) and their children). I do not think someone’s belief is major cause of rift between the groups.

    I compiled the following splits between the two groups but I believe none of them is the actual cause of the problem. I would like someone to help me educate to the core:

    1- Wrongful succession of Khilafa right after the death of the Prophet. This argument is obsolete in the current context as there has been no Khilafa in the Subcontinent in the past and I do not see it in future either. On the other hand, the majority of spiritual guides (Murshad) in the Subcontinent claim to be direct descendants of the Prophet while their followers are Sunnis.

    2- Bitterness about the killing of grand children of the Prophet by Jazid, a Sunni ruler. This is also a non-issue as I have read that Sunni consensus of then and now condemn the incident. Even the son of Yazid refused his succession because of his worst deed. I have seen Sunnis participating in the yearly mourning event in Pakistan.

    3- Sunnis believe that Shias are wrong and the Shias think that Sunnis are misguided. If this is the cause of killing then there should be carnage everywhere all the time where people of differing point of views lived. After all, Muslims have been living with other faiths since last thirteen hundred years in the Subcontinent.

    4- Fear of conversion of Sunni to Shia or vice versa and hence losing a demography. I do not see any evidences of this either.

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 20:13 #
  2. ssmpk

    My naive brother, please do not attempt the topic that you do not have the background. There is established history with centuries of feud, fitnah and bloodshed between the two sects to the extent that condemnation and bashing each other is part of belief system now. You can't resolve it with logic.

    Do some net surfing and read some good books to enlighten yourself, but do not open pandoras box here.

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 20:37 #
  3. adnak

    Why Shia Sunni fight all the time in Pakistan?

    Answer is very simple. Because religious leaders of the two sects motivate their followers (directly or indirectly) to do so.

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 20:42 #
  4. Sharif Aadmi

    proxy war of saudi arabia & iran.

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 22:26 #
  5. BlackSheep

    شریف آدمی صاحب۔۔۔۔۔۔
    بہت اچھا نکتہ بہت کم الفاظ میں بیان کیا ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔
    میں نے بھی کہیں پڑھا تھا کہ آج پاکستان میں شیعہ علماء حضرات جو لباس زیب تن کرتے ہیں وہ انقلابِ ایران سے پہلے نہیں پہنتے تھے۔۔۔۔۔۔
    دوسری طرف اہلحدیث اور دیوبند حضرات کیلئے پیٹرو ڈالر تو اب شاید کھلی حقیقت بنتے جارہے ہیں۔۔۔۔۔۔

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 22:45 #
  6. samfisher

    Cuz they hate each other cuz of their parents,friends,teachers and whatnots taught'em silly ****.

    Posted 2 years ago on 14 Jul 2012 23:56 #
  7. sarbanikhan

    Azizi Sahab is baat say qatah nazar kay hamari poori muslim history main laaa tadaad martaba sazishain iran say howein islami caliphate kay against , main sharif admi ki baat say kisi had tak ittefaq karta hoon kay sara masla tab bana jab khumeini nay pakistan,saudi arab, iraq , syria kay awam ko mukhatib ho kar kaha kay apne apne mulkoon main inqalab lay ayo hamari trah.Is ka jawab Saddam Hussein nay apne mulk main shioon ko daba kar diye.

    Is maslay ka doosra pehlu ek bahut important drug route/gaddi nasheeni kay ooper ijara dari thi jis ki wajah say jhang main kusht o khoon ka bazaar garam howa.

    Magar mera sawal aap sab say yeh hay kay aik aisay mulk main jahan 80=90% ahl e sunnat hain aur jo apnay sahaba say be panah muhabbat rakhte hain us mulk main sahaba kay khilaf naa zeba zubaan aur un kay ooper bhonknay waloon kay khilaf koi qanoon kion nahin pass karti.Akhir kaar yahan jamhooriat hay aur sara masla yahin khatam ho jaye agar aisa qanoon ban jaye.

    Aur jahan tak azizi sb is baat ka taluq hay kay woh log sahaba ko kuch nahin boltay us ka saboot main is liye pesh nahin karoon ga kion kay yeh bhi gunah kay zumray main aye ga , par itni baat zaroor samajh lain kay shia us waqt tak nahin ban sakta jab tak kuch sahaba pay tabbara na bhejay (Nauzobillah) aur doosra woh log bahut sari ahaaadees kay munkir hain khasoosan jo Abu Huraira(R.A) say riwayat hain.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 0:00 #
  8. sarbanikhan

    Azizi Sahab jahan tak aap kay point number 2) ka taluq hay kay Yazeed sunni tha yeh qatan ghalat soch hay. Is muamlay main bas itna arz karoon ga kay yeh do arab qabeeloon ki chapqlish thi banu ummayyah aur banu abbas.

    Jin ki fiqah ko sunni hazraat follow karte hain imam abu hanifa, imam malik,imam shafi etc woh sab ke sab banu umayyah kay jabar ka shikar rahay.Balkay hajjaj ibn e yusuf nay tu sainkeroon ulema ko shaheed kiye. Agar Yazid jo kay banu umayyah main se tha sunni tha tu banu ummayah ki hukmarani main aisa qattan na hota , aur aap ko yeh bhi arz karta chaloon thori tareekh parhain yazeed ke betay nay jab iqtadar sanbhala tu us nay takht pe beth kay rona shru kiye aur apnay darbarion ko bola tum logon nay kiya kia? ek traf hamaray Nana hazoor (P.B.U.H) ki aulad ek traf mera baap koi match hey nahin , ek pooray jahan ka sardar ek traf mera baap is iqtadar ki lanat nay tum logon ko mere baap ka sath dene pay majboor kiya main aisay iqtadar aisay takhat pe lanat bhejta hoon aur meri jagah kisi aur ko yahan bitha do main tu is se panah mangta hoon yeh kaha aur rote howa takht chor diye. aur 6 maah baad hey us ki death ho gaye.

    Maksad sirf yeh hay kay kehnay ka kay Nauzubillah Summa Nauzobillah ahl e sunnat hazraat yazeed kay is ghinaonay fel ko bilkul bhi theek nahin samjhtay.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 0:11 #
  9. azizi

    @ssmpk said: "You can't resolve it with logic".

    Other than agreeing on who is the best abuser or luch talnay wala, I do not think anyone has solved any issue here.

    My naive brother, please do not attempt the topic that you do not have the background. Do some net surfing and read some good books to enlighten yourself

    Some of us do come here to learn and share. I have Googled a lot on this topic but I do not think most of the people like me know about the real cause of the issue in the Subcontinent context.

    The Saudi-Iran politics are very obvious but they are a recent phenomenon. I have read about riots and curfews in Pakistani cities because of this issue even in the 70s. Here is a snippet from the history.

    “By the year 1500, Persia was a seat of Sunni Islamic learning, but all that was about to change with the arrival of Azeri conquerors. They established the Safavid dynasty in Iran and made it Shiite. The Safavid dynasty, who came out of eastern Turkey, made it its political project to convert Iran into a Shia country. Shiism gradually became the glue that held Iran together that would prevail into the 21th century.”

    I do not think the [forced] conversion of Sunni Persia into Shia Iran is the cause of current killing either.

    @sarbanikhan

    Thanks for your efforts but I could not understand any of your posts. Please either type in Urdu fonts or write in English.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 3:00 #
  10. pakistani47

    proxy war of saudi arabia & iran.

    بہت اچھا نکتہ بہت کم الفاظ میں بیان کیا ہے۔۔۔۔۔۔

    Agreed with both points. Quite correct.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 10:08 #
  11. bsobaid

    Even if they do say bad things they do so in private gatherings and behind closed door.

    They do not knock your house doors and curse religious personalities.

    This is just pure madness.

    Secondly, succession of khilafat is not part of fundamental islamic belifs. If they do have diifferent opinion, then so be it.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 18:14 #
  12. bsobaid

    Shia sunni sectaria. Issue is much older than saudia and iran. It is true that saudi ghulam and irani ghulam cause serious issues in pakistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 18:17 #
  13. Abdul Rahman

    It should be noted that Iran was a Sunni country until 15th century and then the Safavids Shias assumed power and re-introduced the slandering of the pious Sahabas and other pre- Islamic pagan customs. They made Shias into a cult that venerates Imams more than Allah thereby commiting blasphemy. Calling the Imams as masoom-infallible is pure blasphemy. The Safavids prevented the unification of Ummah and acted as monkeys wrench in between great Sunni powers-Ottoman and Mughal Empire. Ottomans have to fight numerous wars against the Safavis and lost lot of territories in Europe as the Shias were always atabbing the Ottomans in the rear.

    As one Muslim scholar said recently-Shias never shed and will never shed a drop of blood for liberation of Muslim lands especially Bait al Maqdis. They always cooperated with outside powers. They recently facilitated the invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 19:05 #
  14. ssmpk

    dear bro Azizi,

    You have to go further back into history and search on "Fatimid Caliphate", "Seljuk empire", "Hasan-e-Sabah", and "assassin". This will give you some sense of root causes of conflict.

    For more recent times, you should read about Allama Majlisi the most influential religious leader during Safvaid times, who is known for his controversial influence, believes and introducing/reinforcing certain rituals in Shia islam including mourning "maatam", and "taazia".

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 19:07 #
  15. Salam

    proxy war of saudi arabia & iran
    ________________________________________
    کاش سعودی عرب ایک خودمختار ملک ہوتا، وہ تو برطانوی پیداوار اور امریکی کالونی ہے

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 20:10 #
  16. bsobaid

    Yaar hasan sabah nafsiyaati ko kahan se shia bana diaa?

    Even shia does not accept him as a shia...

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 20:15 #
  17. adnak

    There is a history of Shia Sunni fight and unfortunately there seems to be no end to it in future.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 20:26 #
  18. Sajjad

    Should there be shias and sunnis? should they not be just Muslims?

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 20:39 #
  19. adnak

    "Should there be shias and sunnis? should they not be just Muslims?"

    Yes, there should be just Muslims. But on the ground realities had been just opposite in our whole history. Thus it is wishful thinking now.

    Posted 2 years ago on 15 Jul 2012 21:26 #
  20. sipahi

    Primary Reason:

    Ignorance about True Islam and Message of Prophet (pbuh) and lust of power that overtook real message of serving the poor & needy, right after Prophet (pbuh) left this world.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 4:10 #
  21. ssmpk

    And for real root cause... read about first and second "fitnah". This will tell you why the two sects can't just "discuss out" their differences.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 5:34 #
  22. azizi

    Last night I was talking to an elderly person on this topic. He gave me some very important pointers to the real cause of the problem. That led me to do some more Googling. At least I was oblivious of the information I got.

    The root cause of the Shia Sunni conflict in Pakistan is in a Shia doctrinal tenet and practice called Tabarra where Shias seek disassociation from early Caliphs in some rituals. Some of the Shia Mullahs even go for cursing and bashing. This infuriates some Sunni Mullahs. In retaliation they tease Shia by publically annunciating or displaying the names of companions of the Prophet. This cycle escalates to riots, violence and killing of each other.

    To understand Tabarra, it is important to look at the tenets of Shia practices:

    Shi'a practices: Furū al-Dīn (Branches of the Religion)
    1- Salat - called "Namaaz" in Persian (Prayer) - performing the five daily prayers
    2- Sawm (Fast) - fasting during the holy month of Ramadhan
    3- Zakāt (Poor-rate) - paying money to the poor
    4- Hajj (Pilgrimage) - performing the pilgrimage to Mecca
    5- Khums (One-fifth) - paying the tax of 20%, levied on untaxed, annual profit
    6- Jihād (Struggle) - struggling to please God.
    7- Amr-Bil-Ma'rūf (Enjoin what is good)
    8- Nahi-Anil-Munkar (Forbid what is evil)
    9- Tawalla (To love the Ahl al-Bayt and their followers)
    10- Tabarra (To hate the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt)

    First four tenets are also the pillars of Sunni Islam. My elderly friend told me that Shia scholars formalized the Tabarra into poetry and prose during the Sufvi period (starting 1501 AD) in Iran. These traditions ultimate came to India and then to Pakistan. Fringes of Shia Muslims practice this tenet fervently. (I have not seen or heard any of my Shia friends doing that though). I read, last night, somewhere on the Internet that Imam khomeini had discouraged or banned the practice of Tabarra.

    A well-documented incident in India was the 1930s Tabarra agitation of Lucknow.

    http://ebooks.cambridge.org/chapter.jsf?bid=CBO9780511791505&cid=CBO9780511791505A015

    Here are some examples of Tabarra talk I found on the Internet. Search youtube for Urdu Tabarra.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 6:27 #
  23. azizi

    Ironically, according an Ismaili Shia site, Sunnis were the first to start practicing Tabarra.

    “Muawiya was the first to introduce the tradition of tabarra in Syria, reviling Ahl al-Bayt. Ibn Abi al-Haddid writes in Sharh Nahj al-
    Balagha (4:63) that, "Muawiya appointed a group of the Companions of the Prophet to fabricate traditions concerning Ali to slander and renounce him. Among them were Abu Huraira, Amr bin A'as and Mughira bin Shuba."

    When a peace treaty concluded between Hasan and Muawiya, it was resolved not to revile Ahl al-Bayt. The third term out of five terms in the treaty reads: "He (Muawiya) should abandon cursing the Commander of the faithful and the practice of using the personal prayer in the ritual former prayer against him, and that he should not mention Ali except in a good manner." Abul Faraj Ispahani writes in Maqatil al-Talibiyyin (p. 26) that, "Hasan also asked Muawiya on that occasion not to curse Ali. He disagreed with him on refraining from cursing, and agreed with him that Ali should not be cursed while he hear that." Then Muawiya broke that term and planted the seed and his descendants watered it, making it the tree of the boxthorn in the history of Islam. This practice continued many years. The Umayyad caliph Umar bin Abdul Aziz at last abolished it, and ordered his governors all over the Islamic countries to prevent people from cursing Ahl al-Bayt. ”

    http://ismaili.net/heritage/node/12522

    I have read the same in the following book. Can someone confirm it?
    http://flh.tmu.ac.ir/hoseini/safavid/articles-1/58.pdf

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 6:34 #
  24. Asif Ahmer

    @azizi,

    Tabarra was started during Ameer Moawiya's era ... check page no. 164 of Khilafat-o-Maluki'at by Moududi !

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13263314/KhilafatoMalookiat

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:00 #
  25. Hussain Farooqui

    The fact is undeniable that differences do exist in between the Sunnis and the Shias. These differences are tolerated when the society is under the control of good social and governmental order. In such a situation the two communities live happily side by side despite differences. During the last three decades our social and governmental orders were badly disturbed by foreign intrusions.

    The war is proxy one between Iran and Saudi Arabia rather than Shia versus Sunni.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:23 #
  26. Asif Ahmer

    @HF,

    ""The war is proxy one between Iran and Saudi Arabia rather than Shia versus Sunni. ""

    >>>

    Shia Sunni feud started righ after the death of Prophet of Islam !
    Neither KSA nor Iran existed at the time of Jang-e-Jamal (Battle of Camel fought between Aisha and Ali), or Jang-e-Sifeen (fought between Ali and Mouwiya) !

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:30 #
  27. Hussain Farooqui

    Dear Mr. Asif Ahmer,

    As I stated the differences do really exist. I was just indicating that tolerance levels vary from situation to situation and time to time.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:47 #
  28. Asif Ahmer

    @azizi,

    ""Why Shia Sunni fight all the time in Pakistan ""

    >>>

    The more appropriate question would have been ... Why Shias are being massacred in Pakistan by SSP/LeJ ?

    BTW Shia-Sunni feud is centuries old ..., however US+Saudi Funded Afghan Fisaad has created sectarian/jihadi zombies who've been killing Shias since late 80's ... initially Shias retaliated but after the demise of Sipahe Mohammad only Karachi witnesses target-killing of Sipahe Sahaba's terrorists (which maybe done by MQM or ST) !
    Otherwise SSP/LeJ/Taliban terrorists are actively killing Shias in Quetta, Kurram Agency, Gilgit-Baltistan and other parts of Pakistan !

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:53 #
  29. EasyGo

    ہمارا یہ فرض ہے کہ ہم اپنے اختلافات کو نہ صرف زندہ رکھیں بلکہ آئندہ آنے والی نسلوں کو بھی منتقل کرنے کا بندوبست کریں

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 7:55 #
  30. Bawa

    @ EasyGo

    بھائی جی

    لعنتی خاندان تو سیاسی پارٹیاں اور ملکی دولت لوٹ کے بھرے غیر ملکی بنک اکاونٹس اپنی آئندہ آنے والی نسلوں کو منتقل کرتے ہیں اور ہم اختلافات کو آئندہ آنے والی نسلوں کو بھی منتقل کرنے کا بندوبست کرنے کی بات کرتے ہیں

    کیا ہماری آئندہ آنے والی نسلیں اخلاقیات کی بدولت سیاسی اور مالی دولت سے مالا مال لعنتی خاندانوں کی آئندہ نسلوں کا مقابلہ کر سکیں گی؟

    کیا نیچرل سلیکشن کے اصول کے تحت اخلاقیات کی دولت سے مالا مال ہماری نسلیں سیاسی اور مالی دولت سے مالا مال لعنتی خاندانوں کا مقابلہ نہ کر سکنے کی وجہ سے ناپید نہیں ہو جائیں گی؟

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:06 #
  31. Zia M

    The only solution is to keep the religious zombies separate from the state.
    The Christians went through similar carnage and found the solution in the form of secular states.
    The alternative is two nation theory - Sunnistan and Shiaistan.
    But it won't stop there, you may need a multi-nation theory - Wahabistan, Deobandistan and Bralevistan.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:35 #
  32. fear

    bawa jee
    yeh chakar hai

    Survival of the fittest" -- fittest" for the Presidency

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:37 #
  33. EasyGo

    باوا جی

    میری مراد عوام کے اندراختلافات اور تقسیم سے تھی، میرے خیال میں جب ہم فرقہ، نسل، برادری، علاقہ وغیرہ کی بنیاد پر ایک دوسرے سے لڑ رہے ہوتے ہیں تو طاقتور طبقے کومضبوط کر رہے ہوتے ہیں اور دانستہ/نا دانستہ انہی کا مقصد پورا کر رہے ہوتے ہیں

    مجھے آپکے جذبے پر ذرا سا بھی اعتراض نہیں، آپکا فوجیوں وسیاستدانوں کے خلاف لکھنا اکثریت کے دل کی آواز ہے کہ کیسے ہو سکتا ہے کہ کوئی سہہ بھی رہا ہو اور اف بھی نہ کرے

    بس کچھ فورم ممبران کے آپس میں رویے میں بہتری کی گنجائش محسوس ہوتی ہے

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:37 #
  34. Bawa

    Zia M

    The alternative is two nation theory - Sunnistan and Shiaistan.
    But it won't stop there, you may need a multi-nation theory - Wahabistan, Deobandistan and Bralevistan.

    .
    .

    کوڑھی ازم کبھی چھپائے نہیں چھپتا - ہمیشہ کوڑھیوں کے سر چڑھ کر بولتا ہے

    :wink: :wink:

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:39 #
  35. Bawa

    @ EasyGo

    شکریہ بھائی جی - پواینٹ نوٹڈ

    :) :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:41 #
  36. Asif Ahmer

    @ziam,

    ""'The alternative is two nation theory - Sunnistan and Shiaistan.
    But it won't stop there, you may need a multi-nation theory - Wahabistan, Deobandistan and Bralevistan. ""

    >>>

    Very well-said comrade :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:44 #
  37. EasyGo

    And Bawa Jee, as Fear Bhai is around, time to go to listener mode for me.
    :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:44 #
  38. Bawa

    Fear

    Survival of the fittest" -- fittest" for the Presidency

    .
    .

    اگر خدا نا خواستہ فوج حکومت پر قبضہ کر لیتی ہے اور اعلان کرتی ہے کہ

    اس سیاستدان کو صدر بنایا جائے گا جو کل سب سے پہلے جی ایچ کیو پہنچ کر سو بار ناک سے لکیریں نکالے گا اور گیٹ پر موجود سنتری سے سو چھتر کھائے گا

    تو میں یقین سے کہہ سکتا ہوں کہ

    زرداری رات کو ہی وہاں پہنچ کر ناک سے سو لکیریں نکال کر لائن میں سب سے آگے کھڑا ہوگا اور سو کی بجائے پانچ سو چھتر کھانے کے لیے سنتری کے منٹ ترلے کر رہا ہوگا اور پاؤں پکڑ رہا ہوگا

    تاکہ اقتدار کی ہڈی اسے مل جائے

    :) :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:48 #
  39. Asif Ahmer

    Lashkar-e-Jhangvi’s Open Letter Against Shias

    http://hazaranewspakistan.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/lashkar-e-jhangvis-open-letter-against-hazaras/

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:49 #
  40. Bawa

    @ EasyGo

    بھائی جی

    میں نے آج اپنے حصے کا لچ تل لیا ہے. اسی لیے میں بھی اجازت چاہوں گا

    جلد ملیں گے - الله نگہبان

    :) :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:52 #
  41. Zia M

    زرداری رات کو ہی وہاں پہنچ کر ناک سے سو لکیریں نکال کر لائن میں سب سے آگے کھڑا ہوگا اور سو کی بجائے پانچ سو چھتر کھانے کے لیے سنتری کے منٹ ترلے کر رہا ہوگا اور پاؤں پکڑ رہا ہوگا

    تاکہ اقتدار کی ہڈی اسے مل جائ
    ---------------
    Not only Zardari but most of our politicians will be willing to rub their noses (even rear-ends) in the ground to achieve their goals.
    :) :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 8:58 #
  42. fear

    easy go bhai jee yeh le time paas karain.

    یورپ میں دین اور سیاست علیحدہ ہوئے تو اور بھی ہولناک تجربات سامنے آئے۔ یورپی لوگ کہنے کو ایک مذہب اور ایک تہذیب کے حامل تھے لیکن دین اور سیاست کی علیحدگی نے یورپ کو قوم پرستی کی آگ میں دھکیل دیا۔ چنانچہ یورپ کا ہر ملک ایک قوم کی علامت بن کر ابھرا۔ اس قوم پرستی نے یورپ کو دو عالمی جنگوں کا ’’تحفہ‘‘ دیا۔ اس قوم پرستی نے ہٹلر کو جنم دیا۔ کہنے کو کمیونزم نے نیا علم پیدا کیا لیکن کمیونزم خدا اور مذہب دشمن نظریہ تھا، اس لیے اس کا نیا علم بھی زہرآلود اور انسانیت سوز تھا۔ کمیونسٹ انقلابات نے روس اور چین سمیت دنیا بھر میں کروڑوں انسانوں کو موت کے گھاٹ اتار دیا، کروڑوں انسان دوسرے انسانوں کی نفرت میں مبتلا ہوگئے، اور کمیونزم نے پورے پورے معاشروں کو انسانوں کا معاشرہ نہیں رہنے دیا بلکہ انہیں کمیونسٹ پارٹی کا ’’آلہ کار‘‘ بنادیا۔ یہ چنگیزیت کی ایک نئی قسم تھی، جس کے سر پر نظریئے کا تاج رکھا ہوا تھا اور جس کے ہاتھ میں انسانیت کی بقا و سلامتی کے نعرے کا پرچم تھا۔ یورپ کی گزشتہ ساٹھ ستّر سال کی تاریخ دین اور سیاست کی علیحدگی کی تاریخ ہے، اور اس تاریخ نے یورپ میں قیادت کے معیار کو بری طرح متاثر کیا ہے، تاہم سیکولرازم کے دائرے میں بھی علم اور کردار کی اہمیت یہ ہے کہ جب کبھی یورپ کی سیاست میں علم اور کردار بروئے کار آئے ہیں انہوں نے حیران کن نتائج پیدا کیے ہیں۔ اس کی ایک مثال ژاں پال سارتر ہے۔ سارتر نے دانش ور کو ’’مضطرب شعور‘‘ کہا ہے اور سارتر خود اس کی ایک مثال تھا۔ چنانچہ وہ لادین ہونے کے باوجود اپنے مسلک کی سامراجیت کے خلاف تھا اور اس کا خیال تھا کہ الجزائر پر فرانس کا قبضہ غاصبانہ ہے اور اسے ختم ہونا چاہیے۔ سارتر فلسفی تھا، ادیب تھا اور سیاسی کارکن یا Political Activist تھا۔ اس کا معاشرے پر اثر تھا۔ چنانچہ اس نے تن تنہا الجزائر پر فرانس کے قبضے کے خلاف مہم چلائی۔ یہ فرانس میں جنرل ڈیگال کا زمانہ تھا اور لوگوں نے جنرل ڈیگال کو مشورہ دیا کہ سارتر غدار ہے، اس کو گرفتار کرلیا جانا چاہیے۔ لیکن ڈیگال نے کہاکہ سارتر ’’روحِ فرانس‘‘ ہے، اسے گرفتار نہیں کیا جاسکتا۔ اہم بات یہ ہے کہ سارتر کی برپا کی ہوئی تحریک نے الجزائر سے فرانس کی واپسی میں اہم کردار ادا کیا۔ سارتر کے علم اور اس کے دانش ورانہ کردار نے ریاست کی طاقت کو چیلنج کیا اور اسے لگام دے کر پسپا ہونے پر مجبور کیا۔ ہندوازم میں مذہب اور سیاست کی یکجائی ممکن ہی نہیں، کیونکہ ہندو سماج نے 20 ویں صدی تک آتے آتے مذہب اور سیاست کی علیحدگی کے مغربی فلسفے کو دل و جان سے قبول کرلیا تھا۔ اس کے باوجود موہن داس کرم چند گاندھی نے مذہب کا نام لیے بغیر سیاست اور مذہب کو یکجا کیا۔ انہوں نے عدم تشدد کا فلسفہ ایجاد کیا اور اسے ایک طرح کے روحانی نظریئے کی شکل دی۔ ان کی سادگی اگرچہ اپنی نہاد میں ایک سماجی اور معاشی حقیقت تھی اور اس کا ہندو سماج کے سماجی اور معاشی حقائق سے گہرا تعلق تھا، لیکن گاندھی جی کی سادگی نے بھی ایک طرح کی روحانی ریاضت کی صورت اختیار کرلی اور ان تمام چیزوں کا ہندو سماج پر گہرا مثبت اثر پڑا، اور گاندھی جی کا فلسفہ گاندھی واد کہلایا۔ 20 ویں صدی کے برصغیر میں دین و سیاست کی یکجائی نے پاکستان کے نام سے دنیا کی سب سے بڑی اسلامی ریاست تخلیق کی۔ اس ریاست کی بنیاد دو قومی نظریئے پر تھی، اور دو قومی نظریہ مذہب کی بنیاد پر وضع ہوا تھا۔ دو قومی نظریئے کا کمال یہ ہے کہ اس نے بھیڑ کو قوم، جغرافیے کو ملک اور محمد علی جناح کو قائداعظم بنادیا۔ بعض لوگوں کو قائداعظم کی شخصیت میں مذہب نظر نہیں آتا، اور اس کی وجہ ظاہر پسندی ہے، ورنہ قائداعظم کی شخصیت میں ایسے بہت سے اوصاف تھے جو مذہب کے سوا کہیں سے آہی نہیں سکتے تھے۔ مثلاً قائداعظم کو شہرت سے دلچسپی نہیں تھی، عہدہ و منصب انہیں کبھی درکار نہ ہوا، ان کی ایمانداری کے ان کے دشمن بھی قائل تھے، انہیں جھوٹ بولتے کبھی نہ دیکھا گیا، الزام تراشی سے ان کے مزاج کو کبھی مناسبت نہ تھی، کم گوئی ان کے مزاج کا حصہ تھی، علامہ اقبال، علامہ شبیر احمد عثمانی اور بہادر یار جنگ جیسی مذہبی شخصیات کی وہ سب سے زیادہ عزت کرتے تھے۔ یہ تمام چیزیں مذہب ہی کی تعلیم کا نتیجہ ہوسکتی ہیں۔ اس کا مطلب اس کے سوا کیا ہے کہ انسانیت کی بقا، سلامتی اور فلاح مذہب اور سیاست کی یکجائی ہی میں ہے۔ اس کے بغیر طاقت کی نمرودیت، فرعونیت اور چنگیزیت کو لگام نہیں دی جاسکتی۔

    http://www.jasarat.com/unicode/detail.php?category=15&newsid=103089

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 9:01 #
  43. Zia M

    When the United States of America was founded, it represented the most progressive political movement in Western Civilization since the days of the Greek democracies over 2,000 years ago. The movement for revolution, as most of us should know, was sparked by Thomas Paine, who roused colonists' desire for freedom with his best selling book Common Sense and then participated in the Revolution both as an enlisted man and by writing the inspirational series Crisis. Paine was the first to suggest the unification of the separate states, and the first to use to term United States of America. Paine turned over all the money he received from the sale of his works to the Continental Army to support the cause of the Revolution. After the American Revolution was over Paine went on to France where he then participated in the French Revolution in his lifelong effort to fight for freedom from tyranny. Perhaps more than any other single man, Thomas Paine is responsible for the formation of the United States, for as fellow revolutionary and American president John Adams stated: "Without the pen of Paine the sword of Washington would have been wielded in vain."
    http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/history_of_the_separation_of_chu.htm

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 9:12 #
  44. fear

    "I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creatures happy.

    If thomas had been living today he wouldn't be happy.

    http://rense.com/general14/wap.htm

    وہ حکمت ناز تھا جس پر خرد مندانِ مغرب کو
    ہوس کی پنجہ خونیں میں تیغ کار زاری ہے
    تدبر کی فسوں کاری سے محکم ہو نہیں سکتا
    جہاں میں جس تمدن کی بناءسرمایہ داری ہے
    یہ پیر کلیسا کے کرامات ہیں آج
    بجلی کے چراغوں سے منور کئے افکار
    جلتا ہے مگر شام و فلسطیں پر مرادل
    تدبیر سے کھلتا نہیں یہ عقدہ دشوار

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 9:21 #
  45. fear

    Discrimination Against Muslims in CCN, We don't believe in these stories. CCN is very biased against Muslims.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 9:28 #
  46. EasyGo

    فیر بھائی

    بہت اچھا اور معلوماتی کالم ہے، وہ حصہ بھی جو آپ نے کاپی نہیں کیا، یہ پیرہ اس میں سے

    طاقت کچھ بھی کہنے اور کچھ بھی کرتے میں آزاد تھی۔ طاقت کی نفسیات یہ ہے کہ وہ خود کو صرف طاقت نہیں سمجھتی، وہ سمجھتی ہے کہ وہ علم بھی ہے، ذہانت بھی، شرافت بھی، نجابت بھی۔ انسانوں کی عظیم اکثریت طاقت کو چیلنج کرنے اور اسے یہ بتانے کی صلاحیت نہیں رکھتی کہ وہ صرف اندھی طاقت ہے، اِس کے سوا اس میں کوئی خوبی نہیں۔ چونکہ طاقت بیشتر صورتوں میں چیلنج نہیں ہوتی اس لیے وہ رفتہ رفتہ معاشرے پر ہی نہیں پوری کائنات پر ہاتھ صاف کرنے لگتی ہے، اسے محسوس ہونے لگتا ہے کہ جیسے یہ پوری کائنات اس کے تابع ہے

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:01 #
  47. EasyGo

    The only solution is to keep the religious zombies separate from the state.
    The Christians went through similar carnage and found the solution in the form of secular states.

    ========

    ضیاء صاحب

    آپکی بات سے کچھ سوال ابھرتے ہیں ذہن میں
    کیا پاکستان میں مذہبی لوگوں کی حکومت ہے؟
    اورپاکستان کو سیکولر بننے میں رکاوٹ کیا ہے؟

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:03 #
  48. Asif Ahmer

    کیا پاکستان میں مذہبی لوگوں کی حکومت ہے؟

    Though clergy is not ruling Pakistan still Pakistani constitution is discriminatory against religious minorities ! Hindus, Sikhs, Christians and Ahmedis are not equal citizens ... can't become PM or President !

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:08 #
  49. Sajjad

    How about thousands of Muslims falling victims to American terrorism with drone attacks. Did you ever think of condemming the USA on this blog and your dead blog?

    Get out of the compartment and think big. Think Muslim and not sects.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:10 #
  50. asif65

    The alternative is two nation theory - Sunnistan and Shiaistan.
    But it won't stop there, you may need a multi-nation theory - Wahabistan, Deobandistan and Bralevistan.

    NO! You need more tolarenz and respect for the view point of others. Propogation of love and stop hating each others.

    Kayi saal pehle main ne Haji Abdul wahab sahb ko kehte howe sona tha, ke hum sindhi nahi, hum boluchi nahi, hum pathahn nahi, hum punjabi nahi, hum Pakistani nahi, hum amriki nahi balke hum Hozoor saw ke umati hain.

    Tab log shahid itne mutasb nahi hote the, nahi to wo ye bhi kehte ke hum suni nahi, hum shia nahi, hum wahabi nahi, hum brelvi nahi, hum deobandi nahi, hum Hozoor SAW ke umati hain.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:38 #
  51. fear

    They aren't clearing mess but creating mess for themselvse

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/afghanistan/story/2012-07-09/afghanistan-bombing/56110794/1

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 10:40 #
  52. asif65

    anayname,

    I hope not all the shias think and behave like Asif Ahmer (Red Scorpion).

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:10 #
  53. sarbanikhan

    Well guyz the thread shouldnt be taken in context of the recent killings in northern areas / baluchistan.

    Well the killings are in humane and absolutely not justifiable but in a country which has 80% population of ahl e sunnat their should be legislation for insulting of Sahabas to avoid these massacres and leaving this to religious militant groups.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:11 #
  54. fear

    Oh really :)
    How about your Talibani barbarians and their allies in SSP/LeJ .... yar oon ko kuch to credit dou 'Shia Kafiroon' ko marnay ka :)

    Lashkar-e-Jhangvi’s Open Letter Against Shias

    Real Taliban don't kill innocents. Those taliban killed innocent who are trained by American. It's easy.. The real Taliban only execute you paymaster. Want to see


    Taliba free their soul from sufffering

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:12 #
  55. sarbanikhan

    Also i donot understand that every coming year the occassion of ashura/muharram and milad un nabi are being celeberated as means of show of power.

    This is also deteriorating the security situation.In Saudi arab their is same percentage of shia muslim as in pakistan and no ashura/muharram is allowed openly , it is all done in closed doors

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:16 #
  56. Asif Ahmer

    @sarbanikhan,

    "a country which has 80% population of ahl e sunnat"

    I understand this 80 % population is further divided in Barelvi, Deobandi, and Ahle Hadith/Wahabi ... I also understand these sects don't considers on right path .... and even there are Fatwas of Kufar against each other :)

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:20 #
  57. sarbanikhan

    @asifahmer

    These three sects date back to haji imdadullah muhajjir makki or shah wali ullah in both cases its a mere 200 years at max.

    But the conflict of shia sunni dates back to atleast 1000 years.

    More over the above three sects have difference in interpretation of fiqah and based on what we call Farohi Ikhtilafat.

    I do not want to get into the difference as it might spark a religious debate but it is not debatable that our country has less then 80% of ahl e sunnat and secondly even shia have 10-12 firqahs amongst them so this aint a logical comment.

    Insulting companions of holy prophet p.b.u.h and raising doubts on succession of khilafat is un acceptable to 80-85% population of this country.Aint this enough to have some legislation over this?

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:25 #
  58. Asif Ahmer

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:27 #
  59. sarbanikhan

  60. Sajjad

    @asif65

    Not just hope but I know that they do not think or behave like him.

    I have many childhood shia frients and I can gladly vouch they are nil percent like Red Scorpion. I can understand that one get angry on occasions but one must have the ability to step back and think clearly and rationally.

    He has declared himself representative of all the minority communiites in Pakistan and wants the Government to protects them and their rights. Does he not realise that th3e current Government has a Shia leadership and it can very quickly pass a law to protect the Prime Minister, surely it can and should take steps to protect the minorities.

    Posted 2 years ago on 16 Jul 2012 11:34 #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply »

You must log in to post.