PKPolitics Discuss » Current Issues

Will the REAL Caliphate to-be please stand up?

(110 posts)
  1. LiberalKarachi
    Member

    In the spirit of being open-minded, I thought I would ask some of the burning questions I had, so as to better get an understanding of the mystery that enshrouds the "Khalifah-powered revolution" that will be hitting the streets of Pakistan soon (if certain ultra-right wings are anything to go by anyway):

    1) NAME the person who you would see as the Khalifah when the revolution has succeeded. I would like NAMES, such as Osama, Hameed, Zaid, Imran, Omar, Qazi, etc. - and NOT adjectives describing that individual - such as "pious", "just", "honest", etc. I want the name of the person who you want to take the mantle. Don't bother replying if you can't name him/(her?)

    2) Of the following theocratic revolutions, which of the following would the proposed revolution be similar to:

    A) Iran
    B) Afghanistan
    C) Somalia
    D) Saudia Arabia
    E) None - if your answer is E, then explain how your governance, economic, justice and political differs from A-D. Don't just give rhetorical textbook answer that your system will be 100% Fiqh/Shariyah inspired basically.

    3) How would the followers of Ahmadiyyah faith be treated?
    A) Treated exactly the same as other non-muslims, e.g. hindus, christian, jews.
    B) Better than other non-muslims.
    C) Worse than other non-muslims, some rights would be usurped.
    D) They should be outright slaughtered for their heathenism.

    4) What sect (E.g. Shia, Sunni, etc.) and Madhabs (E.g. Salafi, hanafi, etc.) can the Khalifah emerge from:
    A) Same as my Madhab and sect.
    B) Same as my sect but Madhab can be different.
    C) Can be from a different sect and madhab - no problem.

    Thanks in advance for clarifying my confusion!

    Posted 1 year ago on 28 May 2010 21:34 #
  2. Shock
    Members

    Will the real caliphate stand up?

    Well, didn't you see? Two of them just stood up in Lahore today.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 May 2010 4:32 #
  3. Shock
    Members

    "Thanks in advance for clarifying my confusion! "

    Your welcome.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 May 2010 4:34 #
  4. zia m
    Member

    LK
    Are you so naive to expect a rational response from the khalifa Squad?

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 May 2010 5:45 #
  5. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    There are perfectly rational answers to your questions;

    (1) No name available right now

    Muslims are in a phase of re-grouping, of uniting. The time for naming a person has not come yet.

    (2) E

    That is more than enough for you. Its not rhetoric. Its the real thing. You! just don't read.

    (3) Non-Muslims will be treated as they were treated in the 4 eras' that Muhammad (SAW) guided us to use as "'standard' to follow"

    Islam's standard of justice is given by ALLAH ALMIGHTY. We will adhere to those standards.

    Those standards are not man made. That tells me, they are far far better than any conceived by man.

    (4) No sects. Muslims will INSHALLAH UNITE, under the banner of 'tehreek' like MMA or something like the same

    The point is, Muslims need to unite into one entity.

    Sect based nonsense will not be accepted or tolerated. We want to be ONE, not remain divided.

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 May 2010 5:53 #
  6. REAL CALIPHATE CAN ONLY BE ACHIEVED THROUGH I.T CULTURE FORM OF GOVT.
    =========================================================

    I.T. CULTURE FORM OF GOVERNMENT
    Since the prevailing social contract rooted in Industrial Culture and envisaging the trichotomy of power (vested in the legislature, judiciary and executive) has been unable to cope with the phenomenal speed of time, the 21st Century expects mankind to come up with a fresh power sharing arrangement compatible with the recently-unfolded IT Culture. Therefore, a broad-based five-branch democratic dispensation is the only way out for a nation/country aspiring to global leadership in the new century.

    Such a government will, in conformity with universal requirements and observable phenomena of Nature, generate a fresh social contract to ensure the happiness and growth of every individual, group, institution and (tier/level of) government/nation so that a strong welfare state emerges to zealously safeguard the rights of every human being.

    A SMART GOVERNMENT

    The state will play only a supervisory role, regulating and promoting every aspect of life through public institutions. All forms of discretionary authority will be abolished and the spontaneity of individuals will, through planning, foresight and co-operation, be channelled into appropriate institutions. Public institutions will be run with citizen input provided at all levels. The State will support initiatives, triggered by different social forces, which will be directed to those in most need. The Government will consist of four ministries which will be established through the introduction of public controlled institutions intended for the welfare of the society and citizens.

    FOR DETAILS>
    http://www.maemaar.org.pk/links/con_it_government.asp

    Posted 1 year ago on 29 May 2010 6:05 #
  7. LiberalKarachi
    Member

    @zia m,

    "LK
    Are you so naive to expect a rational response from the khalifa Squad?"

    No, i just wanted to show them a mirror: no real plan, simply rhetoric with a touch of fool's hope and past glory...

    @hariskhan,

    It is with great regret that I must inform you the you scored 0/4 marks, as you made the elementary mistake of not reading the question carefully.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 10:21 #
  8. achtung
    Member

    liberalkarachi bhai

    you will not believe it. in a village a molvi sahib told me that 'aiena dekhna makrooh hy'. so plz not show them mirror. they not want to see it.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 11:47 #
  9. ali-pk
    Member

    as this is a hot debate these days, let me respond to the question How Qadianis will be treated.

    The real question is 'How Qadiyani murtads want them to be treated? & the answer is if they accept their status as a Minority, stop preaching their deviant beleifs, stop using the titles/descriptions of Muslims then they will be given the status of Protected citizens. and if they continue to defy like they do today , then they will be given the status of 'Murtads and in this case only two options ,death or banishment.

    hope this satisfies.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 12:12 #
  10. achtung
    Member

    alipak bhai

    you trying to say. that real objective of your caliphate will be ko kill all who you declare murtids.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 12:40 #
  11. ali-pk
    Member

    @achtung

    as i said, it depends on them!

    the Caliphate decides all the matter in the light of Quran & Sunnah no matter how much pressure comes from any quarter.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 12:46 #
  12. achtung
    Member

    alipk bhai

    thnx for info. plz also tell how caliphate decide who is ****?

    is it 'jab aik shaks islam qabool kar ley aur phir islam choor dey tou woh **** ho jata hy'?

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:05 #
  13. ali-pk
    Member

    yes.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:07 #
  14. Please guys stop this khilafat topi drama; it is even sickening to think a name for a Khalifa.
    Please give us a break

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:15 #
  15. achtung
    Member

    it look strange to me. ham ney tou kabhi islam qabool nahee kia. ham tou pedaishi musalman hein. hamein jo kutch hamaray maa baap ustadoon ney sikhaya ham ussi ko mantay hein. hamein bachpan sey hamaray barroon ney bataya keh ham musalman hein. iss liye ham apney aap ko musalman kehtey hein. laikin ham ney kabhi islam ko aik behtar mazhab samajh kar tou qabool nahee kiya.

    agar mujh sey koi poochay keh mein ney kab islam qabool kia tou meray pas iss ka koi jawab nahee hy.

    i hope you can help me out in this question in my mind.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:18 #
  16. ali-pk
    Member

    @achtung
    the real objective of Khilafat is the global domination of Islamic Political model.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:19 #
  17. ali-pk
    Member

    @achtung
    the mushriks used to put up such arguments.

    Islam is not locked somewhere, it's all open. Only a small effort is required otherwise the Quran and the books of Hadiths are always available for anyone to learn and understand Islam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:22 #
  18. achtung
    Member

    yeh tou koi jawab na hua alipk bhai

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:28 #
  19. ali-pk
    Member

    toa phir kis kisam ka jawab chahtey hain Aap.

    You said " hamein bachpan sey hamaray barroon ney bataya keh ham musalman hein. iss liye ham apney aap ko musalman kehtey hein. laikin ham ney kabhi islam ko aik behtar mazhab samajh kar tou qabool nahee kiya"

    Who's stopping you now to understand the real meaning of Islam?

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:56 #
  20. Hussain Farooqui
    Member

    The revival of Capiphate requires a leadership with very hard efforts, sacrifices and dedication. The propspective people for caliphate will be the leaders who will prove themselves in terms of efforts, sacrifices and dedication.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:56 #
  21. ali-pk
    Member

    hope liberalkarachi got the answer to question 1 from the response of Hussian Farooqui

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 13:58 #
  22. achtung
    Member

    alipk bhai

    "Who's stopping you now to understand the real meaning of Islam?"

    this was not question. may be you have no answer to my question.

    hussain farooqi bhai

    "The revival of Capiphate requires a leadership with very hard efforts, sacrifices and dedication"

    and we not find this anywhere.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 18:15 #
  23. ali-pk
    Member

    @achtung
    arey meray bahi agar Aap kay pas is swal ka jawab nahi hai keh Aap ney Islam kab qubool kia toa is meyn hamara kya kasur hai?

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 19:11 #
  24. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @LiberalKarachi: I assure you, I read your questions at least 4 times, before I answered them.

    The answers I posted are reality. If you want to deny them, that is your choice.

    Secondly, if you think better answers are available, then do enlighten all of us.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 20:27 #
  25. achtung
    Member

    alipk bhai

    agar aap ko pata hy keh aap ney kab kiya tou tareekh baata dein.

    Posted 1 year ago on 31 May 2010 20:34 #
  26. hkbajwa
    Member

    @ LK

    Great list of questions. I think i would like to try and answer them.

    In spite of being of a very socialist liberal mindset, i still beleive that Khilafat is the way to go, albeit in a contemporary model.

    A1: I believe that there is no leader presently in a position to take up this massive responsiblity. However nominations can be made. The choice of Khalifa must NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES be left to mullahs. Nor must they be allowed to pre-qualify or select "suitable candidates". They cannot play a role in this process except as individuals with a vote.

    The entire process of nomination and election should be online with a simple one-man-one-vote policy. Any person may nominate or be nominated. All nominees will then be required to upload a complete and mega detailed profile for anybody to access. No privacy can be allowed. All material regarding the individual nominee must be accessible to all so that they may make an informed decision.

    The most important bit however is to exclude the islamic clerical class who would like nothing more than to dominate the entire proceeding. in fact i believe that the fundamental reason Khilafat did not survive was because religious salvation peddlers like the mullahs started dominating it, and the whole process became a powerplay rather than for the benefit of mankind.

    A2: Of course none of the above mentioned revolutions are worthy of emulation. While they may each have certain good points, the evils perpetrated by them in the shape of oppression, violence and intolerance completely n ullify their good points. The next khilafat has to learn from the obvious mistakes of these revolutions and find a new way. Going online is the best manner in which to prevent the repretition of past mistakes.

    A3: All citizens shoudl be accorded full and equal rights irrespective of their religious affiliation. The simple fact that they are human beings is enough of a qualification to be treated as a complete equal. To wilfully discriminate and persecute a peaceful population is truly an abomination, if said population commits no greater crime than having a different faith.

    The basic principle of the khilafat must be that all human beings are equal.

    A4: A man must not be judged by his affiliation but rather by the purity of his actions. The entire process must look beyond the affiliations of the nominee and focus instead on their individual character. A hindu can be a better muslim than many muslims. That's a simple reality that must be catered to.

    The objective of the Khilafat is not to find somebody who praises God more than others. it is to find somebody honest, qualified and strong enough to lead the world population for the duration of his life. The position of Khalifa requires an administrator par excellence, not a "holy man".

    A holy man will do irreparable damamge because he must do everything to maintain his mantle of holiness. An administrator who views his position as one of supreme administrative responsibility will be more concerned with the challenges faced by his ummah than an ignorant "piety-junkie".

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 6:17 #
  27. ali-pk
    Member

    @achtung
    chaleyn Aap koa bata deytay hain, Aap koa pata hona chahiyey keh har Insaan deen'e fitrat yani keh Islam par paidah hota hai. Ab Aap apna Mubarak din behtar janteyn hain.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 6:32 #
  28. We should recover the balance that has been upset by evil forces before it is too late

    http://www.maemaar.org.pk/

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 6:38 #
  29. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Secularism is at odds with Khilafat. We can see this conflict going on in Afghanistan right now.

    Mr. hkbajwa here is promoting secularism under the garb of answering these question.

    I could laugh on this.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 9:59 #
  30. Revivalist
    member

    All these questions have been answered in great detail. I wonder whether before opting for democracy you did such scrutiny or not? I am sure if you do the same with democracy you would start hating it and will then realize that Islam has the best system of government in the form of Khilafah.

    Why don’t you visit http://www.khilafah.com; http://www.hizb.org.uk and see the Khilafah section, where you can easily find a detail structure of the upcoming Khilafah as well as other related issues....

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 10:20 #
  31. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @hkbajwa: Power struggle ? Isn't that what has been happening in democracy and dictatorship since Pakistan was created ?

    What did those who subscribe to secularism or those who subscribe to democracy/dictatorship give to people of Pakistan in all those 64 years ?!

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 10:25 #
  32. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    (1) Who is going to implement;

    (a) Islami Nizam (political system)
    (b) Islam's justice system (justice system)
    (c) land reforms as per Islam's guidelines
    (d) Islam's given social system
    (e) Islam's given financial system

    if not those who are best with Islam, who are most loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY ?

    How are those who are loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY going to implement land reforms, if they don't have power ?

    Pakistanis' desperately need land reforms in order to get rid of feudal culture from Pakistan.

    I'd like to ask Mr. hkbajwa, who he puts his trust in for implementation of land reforms according to Islam, especially since we have seen those who subscribe to secularism fail in doing it ?

    If land reforms are implemented, those who subscribe to secularism will loose ALL of their power over Muslims of Pakistan.

    My questions from Mr. hkbajwa are an purely academic discussion. I do not believe Mr. hkbajwa has the right to fiddle in matters pertaining to Muslims, since he is not a Muslim himself. He has all the right to talk, discuss, defend rights of Ahmadis'.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 10:27 #
  33. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    Who talks about, who promotes the idea of;

    (1) dishonesty
    (2) injustice
    (3) fear
    (4) living out of one's means

    ?

    It is those who propagate western democracy, it is those feudals who rule over us right now. It is these people who have been ruling over us since Pakistan was created.

    Who talks about, who promotes the idea of;

    (1) honesty
    (2) justice
    (3) bravery
    (4) self reliance

    in Pakistan ? It is those who are most loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY. They! talk about it.

    The choice is for people of Pakistan to make.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 10:34 #
  34. hkbajwa
    Member

    HK

    You're quite a laughable little fundo you know... i have an inalienable right to express my views on the Quran and Sunnah, the Prophet (pbuh) and any other matter i wish. I may fiddle with anyone and anything i so please simply because it has an effect on humanity as a whole (of which i am an equal part).

    Anyhow you can try to deny me the right to do so, but that's the great thing about Truth. It is an inescapable Truth that all members of our species may form and express opinions about anything at all. No amount of nonsense bluster on your part can rob me of that right.. sorry

    Anyhow you claim that my opinion is secularism. Well that it might very well be. Unlike you i do not have the hubris of claiming to have a monopoly on truth, nor do i have the arrogance to claim exclusive rights to making decisions.

    If Sharia is to be implemented it jolly well better involve ALL the people it's going to affect and not just a select group. This "select group" nonsense is what causes strife, war, misery and discord in our species in the first place.

    you ask me who i would put my trust in to implement land reforms according to Islam. Well the fact is that all the principles of Islamic jurisprudence is enshrined in the Quran. ANYBODY can read the Quran and ANYBODY can understand the message therein. There are plenty of "pious" muslims that completely misunderstand the Quran (TTP et al) and there are plenty of non-muslims that have a more nuanced, detailed and informed understanding of the Quran than many muslims. To think that by affiliation alone one is "qualified" is just plain nonsense.

    that's another thing btw... until you realize that some non-muslims are better muslims than most muslims, you will never be able to root out and correct the inequities that afflict the ummah.

    My trust in a person will have to do with their basic qualifications and mental faculties. I do not consider a dogmatic madrassa education to be a qualifier any more than i consider the length of a man's beard to be a measure of his piety.

    The message of equality, the concept of taxable property, the concept of generous distribution of resources, the concept of individual responsiblity for the upkeep of civic administration are all islamic principles that are being admirably implemented by non-muslim countries better than muslim countries. For instance, Sweden is undoubtedly a more muslim country than Pakistan.

    The land reforms required in pakistan are required by the Quran because unequal distribution of productive resources goes against the principles of good administration of the Quran. However the practical implementation of such does not require a mullah or even a muslim. that can be done just as well by a non-muslim. Is it not so that many administrative decisions and responsiblities were left up to non-muslims by the Prophet (pbuh) himself?

    You see an islamic act does not become unislamic simply because it is done by a non-muslim. Likewise an act does not become islamic simply because it is done by a muslim.

    It is the nature of the act that makes it islamic or unislamic, not the religious affiliation of the actor

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 10:58 #
  35. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @hkbajwa: (1) Yes, you can study, work up, express yourself on the Quran and Sunnah. No one is stopping you from that. However, only in the academic realm.

    You are not to have any say in legal realm or in realms of power hierarchy of Muslims.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (2) I'm sorry you call 97% of Muslims of Pakistan a 'select group'. I'm sorry you think less than 3% of Pakistan's population among minorities has the right to over-rule the 97% of people of Pakistan.

    Dude, this is the way of ALL nations, ALL civilizations govern. The civilization, the nation decides which group 'among themselves' they want to have power. Minorities do not have a say in it. You may not like this fact. But it is a fact.

    Minorities only decide on their representatives to nations, to civilizations. You or your community already has that luxury.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (3) I'm sorry you think those who represent Islam don't understand it. That you, the minority who are not! Muslims understand it better, thus you have the right to represent Muslims

    The fact is, we/Muslims are improving ourselves. Today, an ever increasing number of Muslims do have the education, the knowledge to represent Muslims, to represent Islam.

    We do not! need or want you to represent us.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (4) Its as if you'r saying a Jew or a Hindu or a Christian can better represent Muslims than Muslims themselves

    That's pure nonsense. World history has proven it countless times.

    A Jew is only qualified to represent interests of Jews. Same for Christians. They have proven it through their actions, their decisions over the centuries. There's no grounds for you to dispute that.

    Affiliation shows 'loyalty' to one's belief.

    - A Muslim will be interested in showing loyalty to Islam, to beliefs propagated by Islam

    - A non-Muslim on the other hand has no interest in Islam, rather he has interest in propagating his own beliefs, as we have seen.

    As I'v already said, we'v already learned from countless events, incidents in the past when non-Muslims were handed decision making power by Muslims. They came to regret it.

    We have learned the hard way about non-Muslims never! wanting to be loyal to interests of Muslims in the last 300+ years.

    We do not need you to lecture us on it.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    (4) Madrassa ? dogmatic ?

    Do you want me to show you how western education system is far more dogmatic than madrassa education ?

    The least it will be, will be heart burning for you if I started making comparisons. It will erode all of your 'logical argument making' reputation.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:03 #
  36. Revivalist
    member

    Hkbajwa,

    I see no problem in Mr. Bajwa's understanding of the caliph being a person who is good in administration, politics etc. Of course anyone who would want to become the caliph must fulfill the minimum criteria set by Islam.

    Dear Haris, I think you misunderstood Mr. Bajwa's post, where you disagree with him in his post could you please mention that specific portion???

    Regards

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:12 #
  37. hkbajwa
    Member

    HK

    Indeed it is a sad truth that you relate, but undeniable.

    And btw i do not in any way shape of form say that the 3% should overrule the 97%. I am merely saying that you should not exclude them. To exclude even .5% of a population for no reason other than their religious affiliation is plain discrimination.

    Of course they will never be able to dominate, but at least they will fail to dominate as equals rather than failing to dominate as second grade citizens.

    Muslims in the rest of the world flip their lid if they are ever discriminated against. At least in the west their vote is the same as anybody else's and their legal rights are the exact same. That is not something pakistan can boast. Perhaps it would be prudent to give equal rights at home before heading out into the world to demand equal rights in places where they are a "minority".

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:16 #
  38. zia m
    Member

    "2) I'm sorry you call 97% of Muslims of Pakistan a 'select group'. I'm sorry you think less than 3% of Pakistan's population among minorities has the right to over-rule the 97% of people of Pakistan""

    JI with less than 3% of popular support should stop dreaming of ruling Pakistan.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:27 #
  39. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @hkbajwa: There, you said it. I quote;

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Of course they will never be able to dominate, but at least they will fail to dominate as equals rather than failing to dominate as second grade citizens.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    This shows, you are not content with your status of minority. You want more. Which means you are engaging in unjust actions against the majority. You are! in-fact struggling to dominate the masses as well as their interests, their beliefs.

    You have exposed yourself, on your own.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:27 #
  40. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @Revivalist: Brother, Mr. hkbajwa is saying;

    (1) to keep MULLAH (Muslims loyal to ALLAH ALMIGHTY, loyal to Muhammad (SAW)) out of 'politics', out of realm of power, within a Muslim state, even when it comes to choosing a Khaleefah

    (2) non-Muslims have more education, more understanding of Islam than Muslims, so they are better candidates for representing Muslims

    (3) madrassa system is 'dogmatic' i.e., worthless, failure, not capable of producing leaders, not capable of producing good citizens

    (4) non-Muslims should have a right to deciding what is Sharia, what is DEEN-e-Islam

    (5) non-Muslims can or will implement Islam's standards of land reforms within Muslim land

    He's proposing the illusion of non-Muslims being interested in implementing Islam's standards of land reforms within Muslim land.

    Why would non-Muslims want to give Muslims the freedom to make their own decisions on their own land ? That would jeopardize safety of non-Muslims, as well as their way of life. Since Muslims will through their actions, show the world the example of a far far better way of life.

    Non-Muslims don't want Muslims to have 'freedom'. You can see that through their decisions, their actions since Pakistan was created. You can see the same within other Muslim nation states.

    Land reforms gives freedom to Muslims. How can we trust non-Muslims to be interested in allowing Muslims to have 'freedom' ?

    (6) etc etc

    Please re-read his posts above.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:32 #
  41. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zia m: Please note, I'm discussing legal interests of Muslims with a non-Muslim.

    Do not! take the side of a non-Muslim against a Muslim. That is not the demeanor of a Muslim. This action from you, will allow them, will give them the power to erode the land beneath your feet. You will no longer be able to defend yourself from them.

    Over the course of the past 300+ years, we/Muslims have learned the hard way to not allow non-Muslims to represent Muslims or their beliefs.

    I implore you to re-consider your words, your decisions, your actions.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:40 #
  42. pakitruthseeker
    Blocked

    @zia m

    Totally agree with you.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:46 #
  43. zia m
    Member

    I rather listen to Quaid-e-Azam....

    “If we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor... you are free- you are free to go to your temples mosques or any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion, caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the state... in due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to Muslims- not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state”

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:46 #
  44. achtung
    Member

    alipk bhai

    "chaleyn Aap koa bata deytay hain, Aap koa pata hona chahiyey keh har Insaan deen'e fitrat yani keh Islam par paidah hota hai"

    iss ka yeh matlab hua keh aap ke definition kay mtabiq tamam log jo aaj musalman nahee hein wo murtad hein, iss liye wajibul qatal hein?

    iss ka yeh bhi matlab hua keh ham tamam musalmano ney islam qabool nahee kiya bulkeh by default musalman hein? tou phir jab islam qabool hee nahee kiya tou doora mazhab adopt karney sey murtad kaisey ho gaey?

    jahaan tak caliphate ka taaluq hy, mujhay yeh deewanoo ka khwab lagta hy. caliphate wo log chahtey hein jin ko awam hamesha reject kar daitey hein aur unn kay pas iqtidar hasil karney ka yehi aik zarya reh jata hy.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:49 #
  45. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zia m: You are misrepresenting Mr. Jinnah.

    You are making a fatal mistake.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:53 #
  46. zia m
    Member

    hk,
    Are you afraid to call him Quaid-e-Azam?
    Is it against your faith?

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 11:59 #
  47. achtung
    Member

    i not see any misrepresenting of jinnah by zia m.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 12:00 #
  48. hkbajwa
    Member

    hahahahahahahahaha

    HK

    I fail to understand why you think i have any "agenda" here. I am speaking the truth as i see it and i have absolutely no need to be shady about it. Only a paranoid and shady mind would consider my posts to be anything other than an honest and open expression of my opinion.

    But then again, paranoia is the last recourse of an insecure mind.

    You also clearly insist on misunderstanding my post

    a "minority" refers to nothing more than NUMBERS. Being a Minority does not imply fewer rights, inequality or discrimination. Muslims are a "minority" in the west, but they ahve the exact equal status as citizens as any other.

    I am of course NOT happy with being defined as a "minority" in pakistan because this bigoted society will insist that because i bleong to group with fewer numbers i also have fewer rights and must happily accept my inequality. What utter crap.

    I DO want more. I want equality for ALL CITIZENS OF PAKISTAN IRRESPECTIVE OF RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION. If you had an ounce of human decency in you, you would be demanding the same.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 12:00 #
  49. Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @zia m: What's your point ?

    You know very well, me not using the label 'Quaid-e-Azam' has nothing to do with Islam.

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 12:01 #
  50. pakitruthseeker
    Blocked

    zia m,

    Carry on, you are doing well :)

    Posted 1 year ago on 01 Jun 2010 12:01 #

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