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Women Rights in Islam

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Sahnaz
Member

Dear Frnds..Salam to all...Well im a woman and 22 an doinn MBA in HRM...

MA topic is do islam give enough rights to women?? well i dont think so..

if it give why there is so much crime against women in islamic world (Plz stick to topic only). thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 4:41 #
chechen
Member

MBA? All those secular education without God Almighty are useless. Just donate the money rather than spent in those useless institutions.

Crime in Islamic world? Really?

Just take a trip to US/UK. Evey 30 seconds a woman is raped. There are 30 million american single parent households. Family structure has alreay collapsed and thousands of Americans are embracing Islam and wearing Hijab and Niqab. Islam is the fastest growing religion in spite of nagative media coverage of Woman being denied rights as you are foolishly claiming.

If there are womans right trampled in Islamic countries it is not because of Islam but due to rotten educational, social and economic system left over by the colonial powers.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 5:14 #
sasherwani
Members

Sahnaz, I apologize to you for chechen's post. I assure you not all Muslims are the same just like not all Westerners are the same.

Islam is totally FOR education regardless of gender or age. It is great that you currently pursue your MBA and education whether secular or religious is respected equally in Islam.

I am not aware of why you intend to know more about Islam. But if it is because you intend to convert, I can get you literature of very good religious scholars who will be able to guide you.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 5:39 #
skyfacts
Blocked

First of all you should go through quran and hadees,and just try to learn and understand the woman rights given by islam.If you think that islam will allow you without hijab,having spend some time with male friends in cafeteria i can assure you that islam is than missunderstood.it would not happens in islamic code.
yes two types of powers bieng kept in human,the powers of doing right and accept it,and the power of doing evil and accept it as good.these two paths are clear from quran and hadees.
Islam has certain rules and regulations ,to become muslim we just have no choice to pick and choose certain rules out of islam ,in our favour.Islam has complete code of life from birth to death and deviation will cause you a punishshment on the day of judgment and before or after.
may be you think,that islam is so strict for its believers,yes.cuz MUhammad sallallaho alaehi wasalam sayings are,"this world is a jail for the momin and heaven for the non-muslim.",but rewards you grt in this life and afterwards.
Now the thing is like that your impression about islam that doesnot give you rights as the west gives you,i am in agreement with chechen that this secular education must have little knowledge about islam side by side,so that one is also better equiped with his islamic rules and regulations also.
every education without is lam is an art,and you may get it,but the code again you should follow,what islam gives you guidance about.
The thinking like you having is just lack of knowledge abt islam and nothing else.

CONSIDERING YOU ARE ALREADY A MUSLIM,THE ABOVE WAS WRITTEN.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 5:53 #
expakistani
Member

compare the rights of the women in islam with Christianity or Buddhism... y we are comparing it with west/society

@Sahnaz
can you be specific what kind of right you dont have under islam? ( dont worry about what kind of rights you have in saudi arab or iran or UK none of them represent a good muslim or christan socitey
)

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 6:19 #
Sahnaz
Member

Chechan thanx a lot to let us knw tht how many women r getting raped in Us..well i m concerning abt muslim women...coz if a women get raped in US there r laws but here if a muslim women get raped than she has to show two male evidence in court...isnt it pathetic..or wat abt honor killing?? well western countries do hv data on rape...do we hv here in pak where women get gangraped by the order of so called Waderas..if a women do talk abt her right than so called intellectual called a **** or ****..
why dont we hv write to give divorce by saying talaq talaq talaq...why women in our society is only a mean of baby born machiene...

and chechen im feeling really sorry if u hv a daughter...well how wud u like to marry her at age of 10-12 to a old aged guy...Sorry for being emotional but im talking abt child marrige....wat our intellectauls are doinn to eradicate these evils...you r talking abt hijab and veil...i think it wont be neccessary if men can control on theirselves..well wats abt homosexsuality ratio in pak...do u knw tht??? and u must knw the reason too...well this is whole another topic n i dnt wanna dicuss...
i just wanna c a better future of women in our society where we hv better education...do knw our basic human rights...and hv same rights as men has..
thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 7:14 #
IJay
member

shahnaz

one day holy prophet was sitting with hi s companions and asked question what is woman according to islam?

everybody gave different opinion when all finished he asked hazrat ALi(R.A) ALI TELL ME WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WOMAN?

Ali said woman is the one who never see uknown man in her life nor unknown man see her" Prophet(pbuh) smiled and said to Ali this this not your reply ,My daughter Fatima told you this definition right!

This what islam viewpoint about women! Holy Quran is also filled with references about importance of women.

May ALLAH show us the right path

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 7:24 #
zingaro
Member

Sahnaz...you have started a good topic in fact and every one who wants to respond to the topic as per she requested that "What are the rights given to a women by Islam". All answers should be specific to that instead of arguing what is where.

I am gathering data on this issue and will submit later on.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 7:28 #
Sahnaz
Member

Shaserwani
Wat made u think tht im not a muslim...wats ur definiton to define a muslim...??

IJAY sorry but im not agree with u....first of all u need to define me unknown person...im doinn HRM and if i dnt take interest in others how will i improve ma self...

Expaki
why do i need to compare women rights with other religion...i think i need to clean my house first rather thn to blow dust on others...

thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 7:42 #
IJay
member

Before islam arbas buried their daughters alive islam gave them life.

Last sermon of holy prophet(PBUH)
O’ people! Verily you have got certain rights over your women and your
women have certain rights over you. It is your right upon them to honour
their conjugal rights, and not to commit acts of impropriety, which if
they do, you are authorised by Allah to separate them from your beds amd
chastise them, but not severely, and if they refrain, then clothe and feed
them properly.

Behold! It is not permissible for a woman to give anything from the wealth
of her husband to anyone but with his consent.

Treat the women kindly, since they are your helpers and not in a position
to manage their affairs themselves. Fear Allah concerning women, for
verily you have taken them on the security of Allah and have made their
persons lawful unto you by words of Allah.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 7:47 #
Sahnaz
Member

IJAY

if arabs were buried their famale child alive and women dsnt hv rights how cm biwi Kahdija bcm a business women...?? and how all of those male born if females wr burid alive(common sense..homosexuality cant produce a life)??

dnt make stupid of others plzzzz..and if u dnt mind still in pakistan people may dnt buried female child but but killing them...ds it make a difference??

and how abt education?? why dnt u talk abt women education system?? ok most of us claim tht talibans dnt reflect true islam..but they destroyed 200 schools on the name of islam...

cud u plz explain it why??
thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 8:00 #
IJay
member

How do you know its Taliban who destroyed girls school.Show me one video ,one photo,one evidence, My wisdom don't allow me to believe fairytales.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 8:23 #
IJay
member

sahnaz

It was not fake cliam its written in different books of arab history.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 8:24 #
Sahnaz
Member

Mr. IJAY

Well those who can flog a girl in public can do anything...and now dnt give me the crap tht video was fake and made by westrenen..

Mr.. IJAY u didnt point out any fact what we can do to make women more educated except defending taliban...

and how can make them more empowered in society...it will be nice of you if u talk in sense...
thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 8:48 #
IJay
member

shahnaz

what is the definition of fake in your view? pls enlighten us.

if i shoot same video in remote area would you believe it straight away or want some proof?

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 9:17 #
ucsher
Member

@All
A simple question
Could any one tell me as to why in Quran Women are always talked about in 3rd person?

I mean if it is indeed a universal holy book for all men kind and it doesn't differentiate in humans with regards to their sexes then don't you think it would have been far better had it interacted with women on the same level as it did with men?

I mean why always sentences like..."Ask your women....,etc etc?

why not a direct communication with women so that they don't have any complexes that their own God never interacted with them directly?

I mean even if the waahis were being revealed on Hazrat Mohammad (p.b.u.h) it wouldn't have made much difference had god communicated with the women directly?, right?
..i mean he would have easily differentiated as to which order is for men and which for women!

I just ask this question because in my humble opinion it just make your case a little bit weak when on one hand you claim to treat women equally as men but on the other don't even communicate with them directly?, doesn't it?

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 9:22 #
Sahnaz
Member

IJAY

Cud u plz cm out frm ur shell....i am talking abt women rights and u arguing smthing whole different,.....

Uscher

Is this true..well i hv never thought abt this coz im not tht much religious....thnx to let me knw....if this the case than its meant Allah is doinn discrimination to women frm starting...Hope Allah will forgive me

well another thing is why noone is talking abt women rights but dragging religion...if religion dnt secure human rights thn we shud take steps and make sm laws which give women their well needed respect...
thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 10:18 #
skyfacts
Blocked

PLS JUST TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE FIRST THAN YOU MAY RESPOND.

THE CRIMES AGAINST WOMAN HERE IN PAK MUST BE CONDEMNED BUT THE REASONS ARE BELOW.

Sahnaz,

sorry to say ,but you looks like totally blind about islam's teachings.

Look the problems you are having in pakistan with women is not just due to; islam lacks something about woman.

your claim will only be valid if islamic law is bieng completly implemented here.you have to admitt that rule of law in pakistan is more bad than any developed country or underdevelop.

but again we have to also admitt that crime rate against woman in pak is much lessor than other countries.why?

this is due to the fact that individually our culture doesnot allow many things which are against islam.In this lessor rate of crimes is just we can say the blessings of islam and it is not due to a strict law and justice system.

AFTER ALL WE NEED A PURE SHARIA LAW IMPLEMENTARION AND WE CAN ISSURE YOU EVERY SAFETY ,AS A RESULT OF ISLAMIC RULE OF LAW.OTHERWISE JUST BE CAREFULL IN PAKISTAN YOU MAY GO INTO CRISES AS FOR AS YOUR (WOMANSHIP RIGHTS)ARE CONCERNED.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 11:19 #
javedsheikh
Members

1. There is a difference between theory and practice.
2. The women folk have been converted to livestock according to a self cultivated interpretation of Islam by fundamentalists.
3. Right now a Muslim woman doesn't enjoy much freedom as Islam has been hijacked by Mulla.
4. The rapes, killings and kidnapping of women in the West are not due to Christianity but the out come of Capitalism.
5. In the Muslim World the women is forced to obey the commands and respect the husband like God.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 12:27 #
Junoon1
Member

I can see Sahnaz's concern about women and their rights in islam. Being a male, I often question how they are being treated in Islamic countries, in the name of a religion. The comments here are no different than what's out there for a women, a pure male dominating culture, give or take few lone sounds.

We hate to hear any criticism about our culture and society, and make ourselves proud only by attempting to show how bad others are. Whoever had given the stats on rape in west is a good example of that. I don't believe Islam was a male dominating religion as it has become in our society. There are laws, not in islam, but since they were imposed by some religious person, it now holds the stature of islamic, and not many can question them. Woman, if raped, does not need to have any witnesses to prove her case, but you'll find it not to be true in pakistan. You hear about honor killing, but where do they get this idea of honor killing from, certainly not from Islam, atleast the Islam I am able to understand. Islam promotes education without any favorism to gender, or else only MEN would have been told to go to China to educate. Female mutilation is often seen as, done and allowed in Islam, which by the way is what many do and believe in Africa. But since all these are being done by Muslims and in Islamic countries, they are often taken as, being allowed in Islam. In west there are many incidents of honor killing by muslims, recent being the killing of this women in up state NY and by her husband who ran some islamic tv channel(from what I can recall). Anyways, these incidents, I personally think and can be wrong, are no more than their attempts to beat the Western Justice system with the loop hole of using Religion as their defense to get free.

The bottom line is, we are an illiterate soceity of hypocrites. Its a "do as i say, not what i do" culture. We make our own rules as we go, and no questions ask. We may have a degree of some sort without really learn anything. We just know how to get(not earn) a degree by any means and in short ways, and show others that since we have this paper to prove it, we know it all.

I've written too long, and this very well may not make any sense at all. So I should just stop here by saying that Islam did give women rights but at the same time, it gave men more rights than it did women and WE, "The MEN" have, to our advantage, made sure which rights are to be seen and not be seen clear. And if you go back 2000 years or so when it gave women these rights, it was far more advanced then the others. But then there was enlightenment and all sorts of revolutions in the West and now they are doing all what we were suppose to do for human rights.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 12:32 #
javedsheikh
Members

The 18 punishments for a Muslim female are:
1. Menstruation
2. Childbirth
3. Separation from father and mother and marriage to a stranger
4. Pregnancy
5. Not having control over her own person
6. A lesser share in inheritance.
7. Her liability to be divorced and inability to divorce.
8. It being lawful for man to have 4 wives but for a woman to have only 1 husband.
9. The fact that she must stay secluded in the house
10. The fact that she must keep her head covered inside the house.
11. The fact that 2 women's testimonies have to be set against the testimony of one man.
12. The fact that she must not go out of the house unless accompanied by a near relative.
13. The fact that men take part in Friday and feast day funerals while women do not.
14. Disqualification for ruler ship and judgeship.
15. The fact that merit has 100 components, only one of which is attributable to women while 999 are attributed to men.
16. The fact that if women are profligate they will be given only half as much torment as the rest of the community at the resurrection day.
17. The fact that if their husbands die they must observe a waiting period of 4 months and 10 days before they remarry.
18. The fact that if their husbands divorce them, they must observe a waiting period of 3 months or 3 menstrual periods before remarrying.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 12:46 #
Sahnaz
Member

Dear Skyfacts

Do one thing plzzzz...u knw wat u r living in a country where u can raise ur voice...do one thing why dont u move to Saudia with ur whole family...one of the most holy law has been implemented frm centuries...and than let us knw if u feel any better there..hey one thing u cant take granted security of ur female relatives there ok..bcz Saudia Police let burnt 15 girls in a boarding school which caught fire....and didnt allow firemen to control the fire coz they can c girls over there...Yeah True Islamic Laws..

And Junoon and JAvedSheikh dnt u worry..u r going to be titled as kaffir or murtaad for ur so lowwwwww or highhhhhh thinking..

thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 13:03 #
NNL
member

Lol I find the responses a bit funny.

Three main topics raised by the West regarding Women in Islam usually pop up in one way or the Other. Sometimes it feels like a troll action over here.

Anyhooo.

Akhuti.

Please first differentiate Islam from the culture or the traditions of the society your are living in.

The First major misconception that people have about the rights of Women in Islam is that when they view the Muslims from any particular part of the Muslim world they dont care to compare with the original teachings of Islam.

The simple answer to your Original question Why is there so much crime against women in Islamic World.
Well then lets compare.
In the Western world is the crime against the Women less has the Feminist movement and equal pay movement in the west made any difference ?
Nope
Female CEOs are still being paid less then their male counterparts. They are required to dress up for the part too. Their pregnancy leaves are very limited and then the rest is taken out from their future pay.
Women are more raped, abducted, beating more in the West than in the Islamic World.

That said.

If you are studying what you claim to be studying then you also do have a sense of intellect. And therefore can study Islam on your own and weed out what culture has imposed and what Islam actually says.

But i dont know why i have a feeling that you wont bother studying Islam cos it hampers your freedom as you want it or define it.

So why ask a question when you have your mind already made up? Kinda futile excerise imho.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 14:13 #
Sahnaz
Member

NNl thnx for yr respose and fr ur comments or compliments(watever..who care) against me..

well u r talking abt CEO(female) and discrimination...cud u plz tell me if we hv more than 4 or 5( i doubt if we hv 2 either) CEO in our society

and instead of giving any solution u did the same thing..wat our dear molvis do...

thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 14:20 #
NNL
member

No i actually didnt tell what Islam was about. I asked you to study it and then make an understanding of it on your own using the common senses that Allah (SWT) has bestowed upon.

Your are going for a higher degree right ?
So why is it that hard for you to study Islam on your own. ?

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 14:22 #
javedsheikh
Members

@ Sahnaz,
1. What else the intellectually bankrupt and emotionally charged person can give you, but a FATWA of Kuffar?
2. Religion has nothing to do with the rate of crime.
Crime is the product of a combination of social, economic, cultural and political conditions.
3. In spite of high crime rate, count how many people still wish to acquire the Western Way of Life?

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 14:25 #
Sahnaz
Member

NNl i hv studied a lot...especially on women...n i didnt feel any better...so is reflecting in our society today

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 14:49 #
nagatorpun
Member

It is a well known fact that religion and crime has a correlation in between them. The more religious a country is there is more crime. You just take the current data USA has more crimes in comparison to many European countries because it is a more religious country.
In comparison if you take Sweden, Norway, Netherlands or Finland you will see that they have lowest rates of crime in the world and highest rates in terms of education and development.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 15:19 #
nagatorpun
Member

So any bigot who sees that religion is a panacea is utterly wrong about it. Even women rights are protected in a secular country. And about what is said in islam about women forget about it there never will be any due rights given to women under sharia. Pakistan should be a secular country rather than an islamic one. Until we remain clinging to 1400 hundred year old principles we will never develop we will only drag ourselves into past and remain there until we are finished off by someone for our stupidity.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 15:25 #
nagatorpun
Member

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article571206.ece

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 15:36 #
chechen
Member

Sahnaz, You mentioned Taliban destroying schools. What schools? First of all it is media propoganda and in some areas like Swat the Pakistani mercenary army was using schools as bunkers. You should read the article by Arundhati Roy the celeberated Indian scocial worker who says thatthe Soviets bombed Afghanistan to rubble and american bombed the country to dust. There is not a school building standing even for boys let alone girls.

What are they teachingin the schools? Western secular education devoid of almighty Allah SBT. Millions of Amwericans are asking their government to integrate the schools to teach them about God and here was are clamoring for same schols that do not teach any morality and ethics but just materialistic curriculum. The reason they want to have God included in the schools is to prevent disaster that is presently in the school systems. In several schools in America they use metal detectors to check for weapons andschools have become batle grounds. They have vending machines in school corridors selling condom machines to youngsters. This is the reason there are hundreds of "islamic" schools in America where they have Islamic morals and ethics. All schools are not bad but it is growing trend. I wouldn't like my daughter to attends such school. If taliban ask to change the curriculum and teach them "real" education under framework of Quran and ahdith hell breaks lose. It was the real islamic education that led to the rennaissance in Europe and to induatrial revolution. During the time when Muslims had proper education they were top of the world. Read this from famous Americam Woman CEO of a major corporation Hewlett Packard. She is asking Americans to folow the Islamic versionof educationand we are bliding aping the decadent West:

Enlightened civilizations by Carly Fiorina (HP's CEO)

There was once a civilization that was the greatest in the world. It was able to create a continental super-state that stretched from ocean to ocean, and from northern climates to tropics and deserts. Within its dominion lived hundreds of millions of people, of different creeds and ethnic origins. One of its languages became the universal language of much of the world, the bridge between the peoples of a hundred lands. Its armies were made up of people of many nationalities. Its military protection allowed a degree of peace and prosperity that had never been known. The reach of this civilization's commerce extended from Latin America to China, and everywhere in between.

This civilization was driven, more than anything, by invention. Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories - stories of courage, romance and magic. Its poets wrote of love, when others before them were too steeped in fear to think of such things.

When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent.

Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions of Muslim mathematicians. It was leadership that harnessed the full capabilities of a very diverse population that included Christianity, Islamic and Jewish traditions.

This kind of enlightened leadership - leadership that Nurtured culture, sustainability, diversity and courage - led to 800 years of invention and prosperity. In dark and serious times like this, we must affirm our Commitment to building societies and institutions that aspire to this kind of greatness.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 15:37 #
semirza
Moderator

Chechen....and instead of giving any solution u did the same thing..wat our dear molvis do...

You in your previous posts and in another thread as well have mentioned a typical word 'molvi' several times. You quote that A.K. Azad a nobel prize winner is disliked by 'Molvis'.

You are eager to discuss the rights and the plights of women in Islam, claiming yourself a woman, and suddenly you turn and discuss homosexuality.

You blame that Molvis are producing sucide bombers.

Who are you, and what is your real agenda? I personally do not like most of the Moulvis especially who spread their own understandings and not the whole truth but here I ask you a simple question? What do you have against the Molvis, post all the allegations that happen to be in your mind and Inshallah by the grace of Allah (swt) the almighty, all will be answered.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 16:17 #
skyfacts
Blocked

@ALL,

Due to little understanding of our society and culture and local thinkings ,you may find chechen is wrong,sometimes chechen just pick information from this forum and starts commenting on it.
chechen will take little time to know abt Pakistani internal differences and culture facts.

So pls note this before you are going to develop any opinion abt chechen.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 18:48 #
skyfacts
Blocked

sahnaz,
javiedshiekh,

i am still of the opinion and sorry to say that ISLAM is not upto your STANDARDS.
dont waist your time on talking about ISLAM.And efforts to bring other ppl,to think, like you have is your personal effort.
you just dont want to learn abt islam ,but you want to propagate westrenise ISLAM here.nothing going to happen like this .NGO's are best just to collect dollar's from the west,this is good to help west into pushing them in financial crises.
NGO'S LIKE YOU WILL FAIL TO BRING ANY INQILAB IN MUSLIM SOCIETY.THEY ARE GOOD IN COLLECTING RAW MATERIAL FOR THROAT CUTTERS.
WE WANT TO HELP OUR SOCIETY IN BRINGING THEM CLOSE,BUT YOUR EFFORT TO MADE US MORE AND MORE DIVIDED.

Posted 3 years ago on 24 May 2009 18:57 #
Sahnaz
Member

Thnx to all of u........To all ma frnds who contributed their precious time to share their valuable thoughts....

Sm1 commented about ma real agenda...frnds ma real agenda is to empowered women...realize them they r not inferior...we must hv same rights as male hv...

again here my frnds pointed out west and flaws in their systemm...i just wanna ask u simple question...why pointing out flaw of others can we eradicate evils of our system?? can we improve ourselves and make a productive and prosporus society??

Thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 4:58 #
peterpan773
Member

Let us see what the Quran says about women. It says “men have a degree (of advantage) over them” 2:228 ; that the witness of woman is worth half of that of man 2:282; that women inherit half of their male siblings, 4:11-12; that a man can marry two or three or four women 4:3; that if a women becomes captive in a war, her Muslim master is allowed to rape her 33:50; that if a woman is not totally submissive to her husband she will enter Hell 66:10; that women are “tilth” for their husbands (to cultivate them) 2:223; that men are in charge of women, as if women were imbeciles or minors who could not take care of themselves; that they must be obedient to their husbands or be admonished (verbally abused), banished from the bed (psychologically abused) and beaten (physically abused) 4:34.

What about here after?
Men are promised many virgins after they die. What do women get? They get their old lousy husband to share with 72 voluptuous celestial virgins. With that many high-bosomed houries why would any man want to spend a night with an old wife? Do women get also young celestial studs to have orgies with? No they don’t. They have to maintain their “modesty” even after their death. The truth is that in Islam men and women are not treated equally even after their death.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 6:53 #
Beenai
Moderator

i seriously think and believe that women empowerment is a scam ...introduced by west and selected to be followed by all the world organizations of so called women liberation.

looking at the work environment everywhere ...

after many years of my career as a working woman ...
i can say
i am done with women rights and so called equality demands .

atleast in our society .
man and woman can never be treated equal.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 7:15 #
Sahnaz
Member

Beenai

i think u dont live in pakistan...well im talking abt our society and u hv mentioned tht we cant be treated equally...i just wanna knw why?? wat we hv done so wrong tht we r inferiors(well we r not )...

and one thing more noone talked abt women education yet..why is tht??

in ma previous post i raised sm queston like divorce issues ...no one comment on tht??
Why a man is allowed to marry with 4 women?? and why they r granted so called 70 or 80 hoors in paradise..??

What women will do in paradise...( hope they wont hv same life as they r living now (especially in Afg, Iran,syria and SA and sm of regions in pak)??

here in this forum i do knw many scholars r contributing their thoughts...

cud u plz enlighten us on this issues??

thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 8:29 #
zingaro
Member

It was not surprising that what javedsheikh, Sahnaz and few other commented on the subject matter of this thread. I must ask Sahnaz to reconfirm here that her actual topic was Women rights in Islam ...and not as treatment of women in different muslim countries.. because when we talk about Islam then we are talking about principles of a religion...am i rite Sahnaz... Now I want you and all others who commented in this thread to please read this:

The status of woman in Islam constitutes no problem. The attitude of the Qur'an and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that woman is, at least, as vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the Muslims. The status of woman was taken for granted to be equal to that of man. It was a matter of course, a matter of fact, and no one, then, considered it as a problem at all.

In order to understand what Islam has established for woman, there is no need to deplore her plight in the pre-Islamic era or in the modern world of today. Islam has given woman rights and privileges which she has never enjoyed under other religious or constitutional systems. This can be understood when the matter is studied as a whole in a comparative manner, rather than partially. The rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of a man but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two quite different things. This difference is understandable because man and woman are not identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, There is no problem. It is almost impossible to find even two identical men or women.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 8:54 #
zingaro
Member

This distinction between equality and sameness is of paramount importance. Equality is desirable, just, fair; but sameness is not. People are not created identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, there is no room to imagine that woman is inferior to man. There is no ground to assume that she is less important than he just because her rights are not identically the same as his. Had her status been identical with his, she would have been simply a duplicate of him, which she is not. The fact that Islam gives her equal rights - but not identical - shows that it takes her into due consideration, acknowledges her, and recognizes her independent personality.

It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the First Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that God's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that God addressed them jointly. (2:35-36); 7:19, 27; 20:117-123). In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more.

The status of woman in Islam is something unique, something novel, something that has no similarity in any other system. If we look to the Eastern Communist world or to the democratic nations, we find that woman is not really in a happy position. Her status is not enviable. She has to work so hard to live, and sometimes she may be doing the same job that a man does but her wage is less than his. She enjoys a kind of liberty which in some cases amounts to libertinism. To get to where she is nowadays, woman struggled hard for decades and centuries. To gain the right of learning and the freedom of work and earning, she had to offer painful sacrifices and give up many of her natural rights. To establish her status as a human being possessing a soul, she paid heavily. Yet in spite of all these costly sacrificeqs and painful struggles, she has not acquired what Islam has established by a Divine decree for the Muslim woman.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 8:54 #
zingaro
Member

The rights of woman of modern times were not granted voluntarily or out of kindness to the female. Modern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent or Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances came to her aid. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirements of industrial developments forced woman to get out of her home - to work, to learn, to struggle for her livelihood, to appear as an equal to man, to run her race in the course of life side by side with him. She was forced by circumstances and in turn she forced herself through and acquired her new status. Whether all women were pleased with these circumstances being on their side, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results of this course is a different matter. But the fact remains that whatever rights modern woman enjoys fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart. What Islam has established for woman is that which suits her nature, gives her full security and protects her against disgraceful circumstances and uncertain channels of life. We do not need here to elaborate on the status of modern woman and the risks she runs to make her living or establish herself. We do not even need to explore the miseries and setbacks that encircle her as a result of the so-called rights of woman. Nor do we intend to manipulate the situation of many unhappy homes which break because of the very "freedom" and "rights" of which modern woman is proud. Most women today exercise the right of freedom to go out independently, to work and earn, to pretend to be equal to man, but this, sadly enough, is at the expense of their families. This all known and obvious. What is not known is the status of woman in Islam.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 8:55 #
zingaro
Member

An attempt will be made in the following passages to sum up the attitude of Islam with regard to woman.

1. Woman is recognized by Islam as a full and equal partner of man in the procreation of humankind. He is the father; she is the mother, and both are essential for life. Her role is not less vital than his. By this partnership she has an equal share in every aspect; she is entitled to equal rights; she undertakes equal responsibilities, and in her there are as many qualities and as much humanity as there are in her partner. To this equal partner- ship in the reproduction of human kind God says:

O mankind! Verily We have created your from a single (pair) of a male and a female,m and made you into nations and tribes that you may know each other... (Qur'an, 49:13; cf. 4:1).

2. She is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is acknowledged as an independent personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual aspirations. Her human nature is neither inferior to nor deviant from that of man. Both are members of one another. God says:

And their Lord has accepted (their prayers) and answered them (saying): 'Never will I cause to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female; you are members, one of another... (3:195; cf 9:71;33:35-36;66:19-21).

3. She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge. When Islam enjoins the seeking of knowledge upon Muslims, it makes no distinction between man and woman. Almost fourteen centuries ago, Muhammad declared that the pursuit of knowledge is incumbent on every Muslim male and female. This declaration was very clear and was implemented by Muslims throughout history.

4. She is entitled to freedom of expression as much as man is. Her sound opinions are taken into consideration and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex. It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders (Qur'an, 58:1-4; 60:10-12). Besides there were occasions when Muslim women expressed their views on legislative matters of public interest, and stood in opposition to the Caliphs, who then accepted the sound arguments of these women. A specific example took place during the Califate of Umar Ibn al-Khattab.

5. Historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on. They were not shut behind iron bars or considered worthless creatures and deprived of souls.

6. Islam grants woman equal rights to contract, to enterprise, to earn and possess independently. Her life, her property, her honor are as sacred as those of man. If she commits any offense, her penalty is no less or more than of man's in a similar case. If she is wronged or harmed, she gets due compensations equal to what a man in her position would get (2:178;4:45, 92-93).

7. Islam does not state these rights in a statistical form and then relax. It has taken all measures to safeguard them and put them into practice as integral articles of Faith. It never tolerates those who are inclined to prejudice against woman or discrimination between man and woman. Time and again, the Qur'an reproaches those who used to believe woman to be inferior to man (16:57-59, 62; 42:47-59; 43:15-19; 53:21-23).

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 8:55 #
zingaro
Member

# Apart from recognition of woman as an independent human being acknowledged as equally essential for the survival of humanity, Islam has given her a share of inheritance. Before Islam, she was not only deprived of that share but was herself considered as property to be inherited by man. Out of that transferable property Islam made an heir, acknowledging the inherent human qualifies in woman. Whether she is a wife or mother, a sister or daughter, she receives a certain share of the deceased kin's property, a share which depends on her degree of relationship to the deceased and the number of heirs. This share is hers, and no one can take it away or disinherit her. Even if the deceased wishes to deprive her by making a will to other relations or in favor of any other cause, the Law will not allow him to do so. Any proprietor is permitted to make his will within the limit of one-third of his property, so he may not affect the rights of his heirs, men and women. In the case of inheritance, the question of quality and sameness is fully applicable. In principle, both man and woman are equally entitled to inherit the property of the deceased relations but the portions they get may vary. In some instances man receives two shares whereas woman gets one only. This no sign of giving preference or supremacy to man over woman.The reasons why man gets more in these particular instances may be classified as follows:

First man, is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone.

Secondly, in contrast, woman has no financial responsibilities whatsoever except very little of her personal expenses, the high luxurious things that she likes to have. She is financially secure and provided for. If she is a wife, her husband is the provider; if she is a mother, it is the son; if she is a daughter, it is the father; if she is a sister; it is the brother, and so on. If she has no relations on whom she can depend, then there is no question of inheritance because there is nothing to inherit and there is no one to bequeath anything to her. However, she will not be left to starve, maintenance of such a woman is the responsibility of the society as a whole, the state. She may be given aid or a job to earn her living, and whatever money she makes will be hers. She is not responsible for the maintenance of anybody else besides herself. If there is a man in her position, he would still be responsible for his family and possibly any of his relations who need his help. So, in the hardest situation her financial responsibility is limited, while his is unlimited.

Thirdly, when a woman gets less than a man does, she is not actually deprived of anything that she has worked for. The property inherited is not the result of her earning or her endeavors. It is something coming to them from a neutral source, something additional or extra. It is something that neither man or woman struggled for. It is a sort of aid, and any aid has to be distributed according to the urgent needs and responsibilities especially when the distribution is regulated by the Law of God.

Now, we have a male heir, on one side, burdened with all kinds of financial responsibilities and liabilities. We have, on the other side, a female heir with no financial responsibilities at all or at most with very little of it. In between we have some property and aid to redistribute by way of inheritance. If we deprive the female completely, it would be unjust to her because she is related to the deceased. Likewise, if we always give her a share equal to the man's, it would be unjust to him. So, instead of doing injustice to either side, Islam gives the man a larger portion of the inherited property to help him to meet his family needs and social responsibilities. At the same time, Islam has not forgotten her altogether, but has given her a portion to satisfy her very personal needs. In fact, Islam in this respect is being more kind to her than to him. Here we can say that when taken as a whole the rights of woman are equal to those of man although not necessarily identical (see Qur'an, 4:11-14, 176).

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:08 #
zingaro
Member

# In some instances of bearing witness to certain civil contracts, two men are required or one man and two women. Again, this is no indication of the woman being inferior to man. It is a measure of securing the rights of the contracting parties, because woman as a rule, is not so experienced in practical life as man. This lack of experience may cause a loss to any party in a given contract. So the Law requires that at least two women should bear witness with one man. if a woman of the witness forgets something, the other one would remind her. Or if she makes an error, due to lack of experience, the other would help to correct her. This is a precautionary measure to guarantee honest transactions and proper dealings between people. In fact, it gives woman a role to play in civil life and helps to establish justice. At any rate, lack of experience in civil life does not necessarily mean that women is inferior to man in her status. Every human being lacks one thing or another, yet no one questions their human status (2:282).

# Woman enjoys certain privileges of which man is deprived. She is exempt from some religious duties, i.e., prayers and fasting, in her regular periods and at times of confinement. She is exempt from all financial liabilities. As a mother, she enjoys more recognition and higher honor in the sight of God (31:14-15;46:15). The Prophet acknowledged this honor when he declared that Paradise is under the feet of the mothers. She is entitled to three-fourths of the son's love and kindness with one-fourth left for their father. As a wife she is entitled to demand of her prospective husband a suitable dowry that will be her own. She is entitled to complete provision and total maintenance by the husband. She does not have to work or share with her husband the family expenses. She is free to retain, after marriage, whatever she possessed before it, and the husband has no right whatsoever to any of her belongings. As a daughter or sister she is entitled to security and provision by the father and brother respectively. That is her privilege. If she wishes to work or be self-supporting and participate in handling the family responsibilities, she is quite free to do so, provided her integrity and honor are safeguarded.

# The standing of woman in prayers behind man does not indicate in any sense that she is inferior to him. Woman, as already mentioned, is exempt from attending congregational prayers which are obligatory on man. But if she does attend she stands in separate lines made up of women exclusively . This is a regulation of discipline in prayers, and not a classification of importance. In men's rows the head of state stands shoulder to shoulder to the pauper. Men of the highest ranks in society stand in prayer side by side with other men of the lowest ranks. The order of lines in prayers is introduced to help every one to concentrate in his meditation. It is very important because Muslim prayers are not simply chanting or the sing-a-song type. They involve actions, motions, standing, bowing, prostration, etc. So if men mix with women in the same lines, it is possible that something disturbing or distracting may happen. The mind will become occupied by something alien to prayer and derailed from the clear path of mediation. The result will be a loss of the purpose of prayers, besides an offense of adultery committed by the eye, because the eye-by looking at forbidden things - can be guilty of adultery as much as the heart itself. Moreover, no Muslim man or woman is allowed during prayers to touch the body of another person of the opposite sex. If men and women stand side by side in prayer they cannot avoid touching each other. Furthermore, when a woman is praying in front of a man or beside him, it is very likely that any part of her dressed body may become uncovered after a certain motion of bowing or prostrating. The man's eye may happen to be looking at the uncovered part, with the result that she will be embarrassed and he will be exposed to distraction or possibly evil thoughts. So, to avoid any embarrassment and distraction to help concentrate on mediation and pure thoughts, to maintain harmony and order among worshippers, to fulfill the true purposes of prayers, Islam has ordained the organization of rows, whereby men stand in front lines, and women behind the children.Anyone with some knowledge of the nature and purpose of Muslim prayerscan readily understand the wisdom of organizing the lines of worshippers in this manner.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:09 #
zingaro
Member

12. The Muslim woman is always associated with an old tradition known as the "veil". It is Islamic that the woman should beautify herself with the veil of honor, dignity, chastity, purity and integrity. She should refrain from all deeds and gestures that might stir the passions of people other than her legitimate husband or cause evil suspicion of her morality. She is warned not to display her charms or expose her physical attractions before strangers. The veil which she must put on is one that can save her soul from weakness, her mind from indulgence, her eyes from lustful looks, and her personality from demoralization. Islam is most concerned with the integrity of woman, with the safeguarding of her morals and morale and with the protection of her character and personality (cf. Qur'an, 24:30-31).

13. By now it is clear that the status of woman in Islam is unprecedentedly high and realistically suitable to her nature. Her rights and duties are equal to those of man but not necessarily or absolutely identical with them. If she is deprived of one thing in some aspect, she is fully compensated for it with more things in many other aspects. The fact that she belongs to the female sex has no bearing on her human status or independent personality, and it is no basis for justification of prejudice against her or injustice to her person. Islam gives her as much as is required of her. Her rights match beautifully with her duties. The balance between rights and duties is maintained, and no side overweighs the other. The whole status of woman is given clearly in the Qur'anic verse which may be translated as follows:

And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but man have a degree (of advantage as in some cases of inheritance) over them (2:228).

This degree is not a title of supremacy or an authorization of dominance over her. It is to correspond with the extra responsibilities of man and give him some compensation for his unlimited liabilities. The above mentioned verse is always interpreted in the light of another (4:34).

It is these extra responsibilities that give man a degree over woman in some economic aspects. It is not a higher degree in humanity or in character. Nor is it a dominance of one over the other or suppression of one by the other. It is a distribution of God's abundance according to the needs of the nature of which God is the Maker. And He knows best what is good for woman and what is good for man. God is absolutely true when He declares:

O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, Who created you
from a single person, and created of like nature his mate,
and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and
women (4:1).

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:09 #
zingaro
Member

I hope the above suffices to clear your mind.

May Allah guide us all on the right path. Aameen

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:11 #
larki
Blocked

my take is islam does not give woman any equal rights.
when a mulla says that a womans brain is smaller than a mans brain that is enough s**t for me to say there is no equal rights. and what about the witness think
4 women have to witness so that it is considered legal and binding.
you men dont try to make a fool of us women.
we are smarter than you and always will be.
you men were in our wombs and now u want to lock us up in a bloody burka? shame on you idiots.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:20 #
Sahnaz
Member

Zingaro

I was waiting fr ur reply...welll very good article with so many gud things...

if it is so where is the fault then?? why women r so uneducated, in muslim world.
well tell me if it is bcz of some chechen ijay like people who dnt like women to go outside n purse education or career..well if i pressure on ma brain how much i do knw beebe khadija was a business women...its meant women hv freedom to learn n earn before islam too..
now we r saying tht islam give too many rights to women but where they hv been lost..why nobody talk abt women but wud lv to kill them for"Honor', "Chasity" 'Veil-hijab'...
well where in other society women fought fr their rights and fortunately they got( well still there is crime against women but atleast they hv rights in written in consitution in those countries) and here in our society if a girl do talk with a male (Uniled ,Work ) she got a title instantly "****"..
well there must be fault smwhere..is it in our teaching of religion..or our understanding of religion....Well we say Quran is for whole universe and easy to understand..

well than why there r so many contradictions...??why so many translations ( and most f transtlation contradict each other)??
i think u r really a genuine person n hope u will ans me thnx

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:21 #
Beenai
Moderator

@Sahnaz dear ,
i am very much living in Pakistan.
i m a Pakistani and a karachitie.
i was born here and since i m here ...
working for few years as a creative in ad agency.

i have came to the conclusion after that
Islam has given a woman too much of respect but unfortunately our ppl had badly failed to given ....
no2...our women in their seek to get the rights a western woman is enjoying...has lost her right to get the rights islam was offering her as a good package .

i have seen here in Karachi.
the most educated city ...
ppl has lost the idea of
LADIES FIRST
they wanna push ladies back and go first where ever they are ...
if a lady is standing in a waiting room of limited sitting arrangement .
none of the man has that much of courtesy to stand up and vacate his seat for a woman.

why go far ?
in my office
an ad agency
full of ppl with MBA ,Mass Comm and Advertising degrees ...
never bother to vacate seats for a female colleague in the daily morning teleconference with our boss ...
its a 10 minute morning conference ...
and we have limited seats.
if a lady comes in the room late ...
none of the male colleague bother to offer her his seat for 10 minutes only.

thats the respect we are enjoying in the city of karachi.
i dono
about other cities.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:26 #
larki
Blocked

these fool are scared of women because they have low self esteem. they feel threatened and scared like rats.
they want to keep the women uneducated and meek and weak. they want to be the bread winner to subdue the woman.
i will slap the face of any stupid guy who tries to talk down to me as i have done before.
i am equal to any man. i am as human as any man. and go to hell if you dont like it.

Posted 3 years ago on 25 May 2009 9:30 #