APDM fails to decide on boycott. PML (N) to contest polls.

20071209150028imran_qazi_nawaz_203.jpgAPDM fails to reach a consensus on election’s bycott. BBC reporting PML(N) has decided to contest polls . Earlier The News reported.

The APDM meeting held at the residence of former prime minister Nawaz Sharif concluded without reaching any conclusion regarding their participation in the upcoming elections.

Nawaz Sharif was chairing the meeting of an alliance of 33 opposition parties and political groups in the Lahore Sunday evening to decide whether to boycott Pakistan’s Jan 8 parliamentary polls.

However, they were unable to agree on whether to demand that around 60 Supreme Court and high court judges that Musharraf sacked last month be immediately reinstated.

Qazi Hussain Ahmed and Imran Khan maintained their stance to boycott the forthcoming elections and stressed that there would be no use of participating in the elections without restoration of judiciary and lifting of emergency in the country.

However, PML (N) leader Raja Zafarul Haq said after the meeting that the APDM would continue to remain in the country.

Earlier in the meeting, most of the participating political parties gave arguments in favour of taking part in the elections.

386 thoughts on “APDM fails to decide on boycott. PML (N) to contest polls.

  1. Imran Khan Zinda baad !!!!
    Others are stupid enough. They should bycoot. In case PPP win the election then still they will work for independent judiciry as well. For that APDM doesnt need to be in parliment. APDM should have bycoot,No matter what result comes

  2. Is it true that Musharraf asked Abdullah Gul to give him a house on a nude beach in Istanbul. Can Bilal Musharraf confirm this?

    Altaf Hussain wants to join Musharraf too if that is true. Infact we’ll move the MQM headquarter from nine-zero to the the nude beach.

    Aamir Altaf

    Jeevay jeevay Altaf jeevay
    Geo Musharraf Geo

  3. I think Imran Khan, Lawyers, students and other political parties who are boycotting the elections should immediately start their countrywide campaign to spread their message to masses that those who are participating are petraying the people of Pakistan and its judiciary.

    And all those who are in favor of boycott must go to polling station on 8th January but put stamp on the back of the ballot paper.

  4. I beleive elections should be contested as a party of national reconciliation which would include APDM plus PPP. They would then contest polls against PML Q and MQM at both levels of legislators. MNAs and MPAs.

  5. it is a sad news, that once again the political parties are going into fradulant elections. the best option was to boycott elections and launch a movement to restore judges. It means that all the western countries have put the pressure and again our leaders are ready to betray their nation. if the judges are not restored the nation will destroy. now its time for the nation to unite it self by not casting any vote in the elections and boycot personally. Imran bhai pls start the movement and ask the people if you are with the judges come out and save them and boycot elections, take this slogan and give politics of pakistan a new turn, if you lead today pakistan will be able to win another political world cup under your leader ship. all other politician are munafiq and we are with you and we are ready for a long war.

  6. @maan.
    If what you have suggested above could happen (i.e. boycotts) that would be ideal. If it doesnt, then I am afraid tigers should eat grass.

    Sometimes tigers do eat grass, to get their digestive system right for eating bigger prey.

  7. @raj

    Tiger never eats grass. Those who claim to be tigers but eat grass the time of need are actually not tigers but GOATS.


    Those who didn’t take oath under PCO i.e. Iftikhar Ch. and co.

    Tigers prefer to die but never eat grass.

  8. The ideal sitiuation is if the bycott is from all opposition parties including PPPP, PML (N), PTI, JI etc.
    Now, its only one month and the politicians should take in elections with IK, N Brothers as well as other reigonal parties. For these parties it is best chance to win as pple dont like Mush, PMLQ.
    With vote people can bring change and if APDM wins, they can restore the judeciary (I can hope although I am not 100% sure).

  9. Elections on illegal basis could never bring a change. A day will come when the PPP, PML N and others would have to regret their decision.

    Only those decisions of politicians are beneficial and fruitful for them which they take after feeling the pulse of their people not that of international pressure and other leaders.

  10. Well guys we all knew that there is no way that PPP, PMLN, JI, JIF, would have bycott the elections…

    Imran should also participate in elections if he wants to continue to fight for the people as a solid voice insied and outside Pakistan or he will be left in isolation….

    Or may be he is concerned about his One Seat Party….

  11. APMD is nothing but a cheal Drama. I don’t understand what makes then to not stand for truth. The truth is simple ” The Judiciary has been Slaughtered “, so just fight for the judiciary. Election and other thing are based on illeagle ACT and all ordinance after 3rd November are also illeage.
    Fuc**rs politicians looking for their interest not the interest of Pakistan.

  12. shame on nawaz sharif. he has proven that he doesnt trust the people of pakistan, and that his own and his party interests are above the interests of the people. i salute imran khan and qazi sahab. i hope they maintain their stance throughout. they will always be remembered in golden words along with the honest judges who didnt take oath under PCO. musharraf altaf bb nawaz fazlu etc. they will soon be discarded into the dustbin of history, while only those who dont compromise on principles will be remembered as heroes. time will tell who was smart and who was stupid. bye bye nawaz, i supported him till now, but not anymore. he had the chance to become a national leader and he lost his chance.

  13. ye politicians,general aur in ‘jiyalay’ aur ‘niwalay’ kuttay ki dum ki tarah kabhi seeday nahin hongay.

    If NS had any shame he would atleast reflect on the statements he has been making over the past month, besharam kis moo say vote maangay ga. NS has backstabbed the lawyers movement, media, imran khan and the rest of the opposition (I wouldn’t be surprised if he shakes hands with Q League, this man has no principles), he might be suffering from amnesia but people will not forget.

    As far as this ‘maidan khaali nahin chorain gay’ theory goes bhai phichlay election main to maidaan khaali nahin chora tha, konsa teer maar liya.

  14. I am wondering how Javed Hashmi, Chaudhry Nisar Ali, Jhaghar and Raja Zafara Ullahq are going to defend their earlier statement that if Nawaz Sharif goes for election they would not be standing with him.

    I am waiting for them particularly Javed Hashim to appear in some talk show and answer this question.





  16. today i have lost the tiny little hope i had in our political parties, they are all the same, democracy is only a game of interests and power, none of these bast*ards have any principles. nawaz gave us some hope that maybe he has changed, but all these people care about is coming into power. God help Pakistan

  17. I am very much disappointed by NS decision and I think and believe in the long run Imran Khan would prove to be right. It is just a matter of time – thats all.

  18. @ Traffic

    We are going to have new leadership. Old leadership is putting last nails in their coffins by their mistakes.

    People of Pakistan are making their minds for new leaders like Imran Khan and lawyers leadership.

    This whole political phenomenon will take certain time to get finished.

    I am waiting to listen two old politician to get clear
    1. Aitzaz Ahsan
    2. Javed Hashmi

    They have been speaking a lot. Now it s time for them to show which side they are going to align.

  19. In politics,Polititions do not close the doors or take extreme actions what Mr. Imran Khan has done.I do like Imran and always prefer to others But asdly he has to learn a lot and he will be a good politition Inshallah.Please do remember when PPP boycot the election during 1985 and the result was non-political forces became dominent in the parliament.Therefore never leave a space for these forces to occupy this vaccum created by immeture decition of boycot.Politics is not something idealism.I never consider NS as a national level politition rather I consider him either proncial Or district level.Imran has the capacity to lead this nation But he has to go till NS and BB make more mistakes.Also Imran should learn that the politics of conforntation does not work as this lesson can be taken from JI.JI was never able to get more than 2% votes.The reason is simple that the public do like confrontation for the time beig.

  20. May Allah give us wisdom and we get the courage to stand for our principles.

    When leadership is confused what you can expect from the rest? By the way I am not sure if they are confused. I believe BB has under hand deals with Mush that is why she is clearly NOT demanding the restoration of judges. In charter of demands, when it came to restoration of judges, she left for Dubai.

    Opposition remained divided throughout 5 years. At some times, MMA stabbed and at other times PPP stabbed. Can you talk of a single incident when PML N sided with Govt. or compromised on any point whether it was 17th amendment or charter of democracy.

    What did PML N get from the principle stand? The opposition never even demanded for end of NS exile. No body gave any weightage to the sacrifice of Saeed uz Zaman Siddiqui and other 5 SC judges who refused to take oath under PCO in 1999.

    Today again if NS boycotted, he will be made history and he will be stabbed again. He has to face difficult situation and from the election he will not get the Govt. but what ever resources, he will have, he will continue his opposition and will stand against Mush and fellow generals. He will keep the struggle alive for the restoration of judges. I am sure even after going in assemblies, BB will never demand the restoration of judges. BB and Q League together will legalize the Nov. 3 action of Mush with 2/3rd majority in case PML N boycotts. As in case of boycott, no one will stop them from getting the 2/3rd majority in assembly.

    I am in favor of boycott only if PPP boycotts because otherwise the boycott will NOT be meaningful and will definitely go against PML N. There is no other party boycotting which has that big following in masses.

  21. It is good to know that Jamat Islami and Imran Khan are doing good.

    This sentence “Maidan Khulla chorna” is exactly the same meanings which Musharaf use all the times to cheat Pakistan “Sab Sai Pehlai Pakistan”.

    Agar judges chahtai tu woh bhee PCO kai tehat half utha kar medan khulla na chortai in corrupt judges kai liay

    but they didn’t and now every one can see how much respect they are getting from TRUE PAKISTANIS.

    If these politician are sincere to the nation they must leave this musical chair game, and not compromise on basic principal.

    [Only solution for this nation is we all should do TOBA (Isthigfar) on our wrong doings and try our best to keep away from wrong doings. i.e. we should do MUHASABA ourselves first.]

  22. this is all part of the “brotherly advice” that king abdullah of saudi arabia gave to nawaz, all bold statements and everything else was a drama. these politicians and generals only care about themselves, and keep making fools of the people, and our so-called “friends” in the international community are equally to blame for our miseries. i hope the lawyers, journalists, students and civil society keeps up the struggle against these generals and politicians, the people fully support them. inshallah we will see revolution in pakistan. we cant get rid of these bast*rds otherwise. if we dont stand up now then its another roller-coster ride of alternations between army and “democracy” for the next 60 years as well. same wine new bottle.

  23. I still remember and now understand Justice Wajih Statement that there will be another election within next 6 months.
    I am sure Jan 8 election will happen and resultant partliment will not get along with
    Musharuf because it will have Musharaaf Foes and also riging allegations.
    Secondly, Any american govt (Musharaf & team) cannot handle law and order like attack on on PAF base in Peshawar yesterdays. This team will have more foes in general public rather than freinds.
    Any genuine anti american party (like PTI) will have good chance in that case.
    Imran is playing for long term gains rather than short term gains. Goow Work PTI.

  24. @MH

    There is a hell of difference between the circumstances of 1985 and those of current political era.

    At that time 60% real judges where on not under house arrest. At that time the people of Pakistan where not conscious about their judiciary. At that time BB and NZ had not been exposed because of their corruption, deals and double standards.

    At that time PPP came in power with force in succeeding election and now PPP is going to out forever due to it participation in elections to rescue at bloody martial dictator.

    Believe me, this is political death of those who are going to participate in election not those who are boycotting.

  25. People of Pakistan are quite sharp and wise and honor only those who deserve.

    Who knows Iftikhar Ch. before 9th March but when stood for right this nation ‘s support for him surprised the whole world.

    Who knows Mr. Jinnah. He lived most of his life in G. Britain. He wasn’t able to even speak clear Urdu but when this nation knew he is sincere they supported and stood with him unprecedentedly.

  26. This is the election which is going to held with a murder of judiciary, and parties which will participate in this election will also be the murderer like Musharraf and pro Mushrraf parties.

  27. Now the best thing to do by the popular democratic forces is to form a loose alliance or do seat adjustments against the PMLQ to effectively isolate Musharraf and try to get as many seats as possible in the future parliment. This would be tantamount to pushing back the frontiers of establishment in the corridors of power.

  28. The only legal way – and I repeat legal way of removing Musharraf is coup by Gen Kiyani – because SC has already sanctioned that – these political parties dont have guts to stand up to Musharraf and they are following dictates of the foreign governments.

  29. maan i agree with you hundred percent. I take my words back about supporting NS for participating in the elections. This is very different from 1985 and plus in that within three years BB was in power in 1988.

    But remember one thing – 1985 gave us a very good Prime Minister – Junejo – may Allah bless him – who single handedly did for Pakistan then BB could do.

    BB is power hungry politician – no doubt about that.

  30. @ maan

    i have to disagree with your claim that people of pakistan always honour their heroes. jinnah died while waiting hours for an ambulance. liaqat ali khan was killed. bhutto was hanged(if u can call him a hero for starting our nuclear program). AQ Khan was humiliated in front of the nation on TV and then put under house arrest for the rest of his life. nawaz sharif(only considering him for detonating nuclear bombs) was sentenced and sent into exile. our tribal people who liberated azad kashmir for us, they are being killed ercilessly today. bengalis who took important part in the pakistan movement were killed in millions and discriminated against before they seperated. our national hero chief justice chaudhry was humiliated and twice shown the door for speaking the truth and providing justice. our lawyers and journalists are beaten brutally whenever they protest. i can go on and on. we have never EVER given due respect and honour to our heroes. if the people cared and honoured our heroes, they would have done something for them. soon chief justice will also be forgotten after elections. we have to change ourselves as a nation, i can see that change coming. for the first time we are standing up for our rights and are aware of them. these politicains havent realized that this is a changed pakistan, that is why they are continuing with their old tactics. soon inshallah we will bring an end to all of this crap. Allah doesnt change the condition of a people until they change themselves, inshallah i can see the change coming. lets pray that the struggle continues until we reach our goal.

  31. I just spoke to a journalist friend of mine in Pakistan. He had some valid points.

    He said:

    1. Imran Khan is not after a few seats. Even if he contests these elections, he will win a few (maybe 6/7) seats and he will be as powerless as he was after 2002 elections.

    2. Imran has some principles. He is paving his way for a considerable vote bank. He can get more VOTES than MQM even now (a few thousand in 70%) of constituencies but that will not translate into many seats in the Parliament.

    3. NS has his own problems. If he leaves everything open for Chaudhries without BB’s boycott, he runs the risk of losing many more people to Qenchi (Q) league.

    4. BB has some promises from some quarters that she will retain most of her traditional seats. That is why she has to fight too.

    5. Imran Khan is after a big scale victory/power that could make him in charge. He will not compromise because then he cannot deliver the promises he has made.

    My friend thinks (and I agree) that biggest long term winner is Imran Khan who is not only building a long term credibility but he doesn’t seem to care what other parties are doing. Biggest losers are Chaudhries who find it very difficult to win without state assistance and no party is willing to accept them.

  32. In the world of globalization how come our leaders have their own say. Our history is not as strong as Irans’. We have still not figure out where our history starts from – Bin Qasim or thousands years before? who is son of soil?

    Clhussian: as an alternative to your suggestion, I would suggest you to read todays’ column of Javed Ch. in express.com.pk

    Instead, we have to stand up ourselves.

  33. So after the question of polls is settled , I would like to put few questions:
    1. Would Mad dictator allow PPP+PML(N) allow 40%-50% seats in National Assembly (i.e. 108-136 seats)?
    2. Would PPP settle for less than 125 seats (PPP took 59 seats in 2002) in National Assembly.
    3. What will be the PML(N) factor in Punjab. In election 2002 took 16 seats in National Assembly majority of them from Punjab, it took 28 provincial seats in Punjab.
    4. What will be the impact of election’s fever on movement for restoration of Judges.
    5. How much furious will be the outcry of rigging after the election.
    6. Is the mad dictator (read army) in complete control of the situation now.

    I will try to answer these questions later on and may ask the admin to put these questions as separate discussion threads.

  34. @ clhussain

    sorry bro, but you are still looking towards kayani for a change. we have to change our mindset, the army should have no role in our politics. kayani musharraf etc. they are all the same, all power-hungry and money-hungry generals. the army’s job is to defend our borders, not to interfere in our politics or to kill our own people. please do not put any hopes on kayani, he has his loyalties to america foremost, just like musharraf.

  35. Tehrik -e- Insaaf is doing right by not taking part. There is no point winning a few seats.

    Imran should go all the way and mobilise more and more people. He should start an education charity. He will benefit the most from education masses.

    I think not taking part in these sham elections is a right decision.

    I understand that PML N was forced to take that decision for survival reason.

    But it is a right time to join Imran khan’s party because it is the party of future.

  36. @clhussain
    First of all we have to understand Musharraf being President is supreme commander of armed forces.Kiyani sits in GHQ and traditionaly COAS orders Corps commander Rawalpindi which is 10th Corps to send troops to take control of PTV,Prime minister house,Presindent house etc etc.For which 111 brigade has become famous.Right now Musharraf can dismiss Kiyani any time he feels threatened.AS long he has his loyalist controling two key positions besides COAS which are Head of ISI and 10th corps commander he feel safe.
    Its always a combination of COAS, corps commmander 10th corps, and few other senior corps commanders who can take any action.
    In my opinion Kiyani is in no position to implement supreme court order against PCO.

  37. @ Feroz

    Imran Khan knows what he is doing. He says that winning a few seats is not gonna make much difference and this will destroy his traditional principles approach.

    Since you are intelligent, why don’t you go and take part in elections. Calling others stup*d proves that YOU ARE MAD.

  38. Wajid Malik on December 9th, 2007 7:26 pm
    has done some good and very sensible analysis above. I urge people to read these comments

  39. Boycott is the best option as far as Imran Khan is concerned.

    Contesting elections is best option for Nawaz Sharif as he has to strengthen his party for future by using his vote bank.

  40. Q1. Would Mad dictator allow PPP+PML(N) allow 40%-50% seats in National Assembly (i.e. 108-136 seats)?

    Ans: In the last election (2002) , PPP won 59 seats and PML(N) won 18 , so the total was 77 seats, this time the equation is very different , PPP believes that they are very popular and in 2002 there was heavy rigging , so if the elections are supposedly “free and fair” it deserves more than 100 seats , since Nawaz Sharif is now in Pakistan and will be leading the campaign, and the western opinion polls suggest that Nawaz Sharif is very popular in Punjab hence PML(N) thinks that they will have significantly more seats in this election.
    But the question is can the mad dictator afford to give that many seats to PPP+PML(N) , the answer is “NO” , mad dictator has committed many mistakes and he has not yet committed the ultimate mistake yet. So I believe PPP is going to get 80-90 seats in the coming election with PML(N) staying the same , PML(Q) will get arround 130 seats.

  41. Real politics should reflect the aspirations of the people not the politicians own lust for power. the proponents of this ‘khula maidaan’ theory have only one objective in their mind and that is to seize power at the earliest (isay kehtay hain aankh main soor ka baal ana).

    we are proud of everyone of these judges, lawyers, media persons, rights activist, member of the civil society and politicians who are standing firm for civil rights,justice, and true democracy that protects the peoples intrests (not their own). they have acheived far more in these 9 months than those lotas ever did. these politicians may fool themselves but it was the lawyers movement that forced musharraf on his knees, were it not for these great judges and lawyers ye lotay politicians aaj pakistan main wapas tak nahin a saktay thay. the lawyers and medias movement for freedom exists independant of these lotas and they would do well by not forgetting that musharrafs downfall began when he tried to mess with the judiciary and media (seems every premier make this mistake before their political demise ).

  42. Now it depends on the real mood of the people, how they would go for protests with IK or go for elections.

    This is in itslef very good food for thought to the people(would enhance their political awareness)

    And its always good to make people politically aware so that they can decide better next time.

  43. @peterpan

    Try to understand – Musharraf is an illegal president as he has no basis for his election – so if Kiyani orders removal of Musharraf then army would follow Kiyani and not Musharraf. Musharraf has no right to dismiss Kiyani because he is an illegal President himself.

    True it would depend on teh conditions in teh country – if they go from bad to worse – it can happen and army can decide as an institution to act together and act fast.

    If Musharraf was so powerful he would have never removed his uniform. Inwardly he is very very weak but it is an outside facade which makes him act.

  44. Politics is not about careers, it’s about service and commitments to the people.

    Many of you may disagree, but i stand by both Imran Khan and Nawaz Sharif. Imran Khan would carry on a movement outside parliment against Musharraf, where as Nawaz Sharif can stop a 2/3rd majority of PML Q and thus stop them legalizing the stupid PCO.

    I think under the current circumstances, that’s the best package. Remember this country is still largely driven by Army. We can not afford by any means to give a FREE hand to the hand-picked political people of Army.

    So pressure from outside parliment by Imran Khan + Qazi + Lawyers, and then from with in parliment by PML(N) would be good.

  45. @Malek

    No doubt, NS took a right decision to protect his own interests, his family ‘s politics and that of his party but where do Pakistan and its people stand?

    And what about the statements and loud claims he made during his visit to Ramday and Khawaja Sharif?

    Real leaders never behave like that but they stand and honor their words.

  46. It’s disappointing that all the opposition parties failed to unite together to bycott the polls unless the restoration of judiciary, but not this is not the end of the game. There is a second option available which can be exercised to achieve the above mentioned goals. That is; All the opposition parties should join their hands and contest the polls with one common goals to defeat MQM and PML-Q group. After gaininig two third majority in the parliament, two fundamental objectives can be fulfilled as follows.
    . elect new president
    . restore independent judiciary
    . Reinstate all the judges.

    In my opinion, Mush will leave if MQM and PML-Q are defeated. He has expressed his views clearly and has indicated his intention to leave if the parliament was not of his choice. This was during his recent interview with foreign media.

    So I feel that contesting polls is the second best choice and we must proceed with full force and in complete harmony and unity. This is not the time to be passimistic, but rather optimistic and we must continue to explore all the options in favour of victory. Too much is at stake now. Our Pakistan is in deep trouble and we have to come to his rescue. So cheer up guys and continue your good work.

  47. PTI did gave a add in newspapers for candidates but then decided to boycott may be due to unavailability of good candidates. JI has again asked for a combined election symbol with JUI(F) which indicates that they may contest polls. If JI can not leave Fazlu who want to contest and APDM can not can not convince PPP and ANP then why should every body boycott? The election is important for future course of action. Q0league should not get 2/3rd majority or they will ruin every thing.

  48. We should all be proud of IK becuase their is one Pakistani who is not willing to compromise on principles. Winning and losing is from Allah our job is to stand up for justice which Imran rightly did. May Allah be merciful to our nation.
    Imran did what Tipu Sultan said.
    “It is far better to live like a Tiger for a day than to live like a jackal for a hundred years”.

  49. @pega
    If Musharraf had become president legally (perhaps by ammending constitution by making deal with BB)He would have had no interest in the coming election as long BB doesnt come with a majority.
    Now he has no choice but to have Q league and allies in the assembly.His Biggest problem is to get indemnity for his illegal acts.
    Unfirtunately we are in same situation when Zia had to get indmnity after election by passing 8th ammendment.And Musharraf had to pass 17th.
    After taking illegal acts now He is desperate and does not feel safe.He needs a parliment to validate all his actions.
    There is one important thing to mention.This was not an american plan.They wanted liberals read BB come in the parliment to give Musharraf credibilty by giving
    grass root support to fight terrorism.
    NOw Musharraf took this action to save his presidency.And every thing changed.
    This is not what USA wanted. USA does not want Musharraf to run the country with the help of Q league since they have no grass root support hence not fit to carry on the fight against terrorism.
    Therefore I see a conflict of interest here.
    USA wants BB and other liberal to come in the power.But Musharraf priority is to have a parliment who can cover up his illegal acts.

  50. The environment is being settled in favour of elections which were considered very illegitimate a couple of weeks back. I think people should stay awake as to what is going on around.
    Thousands attended NS rallies in abbottabad Gujranwala and other cities, but very few while visiting Chief Justice of Pakistan Iftikhar Chaudhry.
    All NS supporters should come behind Imran Khan or any other leader whatever party who could work solely for restoration of judiciary.
    They should collaborate with universities all over Pakistan, excluding Karachi… we don’t want to repeat May 12.
    Can any PPP supporter show the list of the party martyrs on its site or any forum, because they have been mentioning a lot in public. i want to know how really were they important for them.

  51. Let see the battle between the protestants bank & vote banks.

    That will decide our future path…..So we will have to wait a bit to see the difference.

    By coming into lime-light & keeping himself commited to his words, IK may or may not secure more support, time will decide.

    But atleast he is successful in creating political awareness among people in general & students in particular.

  52. @Arshad

    That ‘s the spirit. Every Pakistani should think like that.

    Keep your morale high as Qauid said:

    “Musalmaan Musibat main ghabraya nahi kerta”

  53. URGENT and Very Very Important:

    Dear Friends,

    Lawyers have been in the centre of the present constitutional and judicial crisis. For standing up for the rule of law and for raising their voice many lawyers were detained and hundreds imprisoned. Lawyers as a community have also boycotted the PCO judges, this being their most commendable sacrifice as it directly affects their livelihood.

    Lawyers’ movement rests on the fight for the rule of the law and restoration of judges. This entails imprisonment, detention and non- appearance before the PCO judges which has a sizable economic cost.

    Keeping this urgent need in view, CITIZENS FUND FOR LAWYERS IN DISTRESS (FUND) has been formed with the objective to help and provide a sustenance fund for the need based lawyers and their families. This support also ensures that the Movement continues through thick and thin.

    The Fund is supervised by three most credible names in the legal profession namely: Mr. ABID H MINTO, DR. PARVEZ HASSAN AND Mr. ANWAR KAMAL. The Disbursement Committee is headed by MR. ANWAR KAMAL and to date Rs 1.2 million has been disbursed to the deserving lawyers and their families.

    We need more funds to keep the movement alive and in this movement lies the future of Pakistan and the future of our children.

    Please come forward and donate generously !!!!

    Kindly contact SAIMA KHAWAJA, Advocate High Court – cell 0300-8414843 off: 5870300-3 or the undersigned for your donations.

    With personal warm regards,

    Syed Mansoor Ali Shah
    Advocate Supreme Court of Pakistan
    Off: 5870300-3

    Source : Emergency Times

    I urge all me fellow readers on this blog to contact the above numbers and possibly make as much donations as possible. I have not yet contacted these numbers as it will be late night now in Pakistan , but plan to do so as soon as possible.

  54. @Maan

    NS did every thing to convince PPP to boycott but he failed as BB is NOT agreed on restoration of judges.

    Charter of demand failed just because of this main point by NS.

    Still NS is very clear on this point. He stands for the restoration of judges.

    You have talked about people of Pakistan. Can you tell me in how many protests have you joined in?

    I have NOT seen more than a few hundred people in protests for the restoration of judges. People wnat every thing done without any effort and they are sleeping at home.

    Had people been on roads, definitely politicians would have got strength from them and had gone for boycott?

    Still its NOT late. People should come out. The day 2 lac people joined a protest in Islamabad, Mush will have no option but to go home and judges will be on their seats.

  55. Though I am with everyone who is against present regime, my sympathies are with Imran Khan. He is a man of his words. Having said that I would also not criticize PML-N for going into elections. I know in an ideal world everybody should have boycotted the elections, but unfortunately nothing is ideal in our country. Mrs. Zardari,Molana Diesel, and Lotas of Q-league would surely side with Musharraf in the next assemblies and would provide cover for whatever this mad dictator did on 3rd November. Let’s wait and see how do the elections go, if they are remotely free and fair then all Lotas will be found in Lorry-adda toilets and not in assemblies and Mrs. Zardari will get a one way ticket to Dubai or to Washington.

  56. Great!

    This should have been done much earlier.

    I must suggest they should set up a system to make donations online. It will be convenient for those living abroad.

  57. Long Live the Tiger, The Future of Pakistan.

    One by one all the dark horses have been exposed.

    The future belongs to the tiger.

    Nawaz calls himself a leader??? He doesn’t have any vision. He’s the incompetent guy who promoted Musharraf to Army Chief. What a big blunder it was! Never again should he be in power again.

    Everyone knows the elections are going to 80% rigged. These PML idiots will ” Jutay bhi Kha layenghay aur hath mein mein kuch nahin bachay ga”.

    With what face will PML go the public after being humililated in the elections? Their answer is going to be ” we told you so, even the idiots knew no one should have taken part in illegal and farce elections.

    I think this is a massive blunder and suicide on their part. Saudi Arabnia, UK or USA is not going to cast them the votes when they will have to face the music from the public.

    How was Nawaz asking the crowd at Anarkali whether they wanted a boyocott and what he will tell them now.

    Only a complete idiot would made such a blunder.

    Write off PML as well now.

  58. @maan
    I shall be contacting them first thing in the morning and will find out the ways to make the donation. However everybody is welcome to contact them directly as mentioned in the message.

  59. I hope Javed Hashmi is invited to all talk shows and shown the clip from Capital Talk on footpath where he made all the tall claims.

  60. as I have said before, there is no way PML and PPP boycott election this is the deal they have done with MUSH.
    Qazi and Imaran will be nobody if they boycott after the elections.
    There is ot good option but boycott the elections is the worst thing any politition can do to its carrier right now.

  61. Imran Khan’s decision is 100% right. He is the voice of principles and integrity.

    NS does get a little credit for trying very hard to convince BB and Fazlu. He shoud have boycotted any way.

    Imran Khan didn’t tarnish his image for a few seats.

    TO ALL:

    Please support that Lawyers Fund above. Put your money to the cause you have been supporting.

    Remember you are securing the future of your children and their children. It is a price worth paying for!

  62. There were no elections in the history of Pakistan which were fair.Every single one was riged one way or another.
    But if you can see from history any boycott from any party does not effect anything. No one count how many people sitting at home.
    One way in recent history any opposition manage to bring change is gathering million people on the streets.
    orange, Yellow, or green revoloutions all of them are done by people in the street and lets just face it restoration of Judiciary is not something which bring people out of there homes.

  63. Ordeal of Munir A Malek at Attock Jail.

    “It was psychological torture to the worst degree,” says Munir A Malik, former President Supreme Court Bar Association (SCBA), talking about his three-week ordeal in prison before he was belatedly taken to hospital with renal failure. “It can drive a person insane to be lying on a bed staring at the ceiling for 16 hours.”
    Malik was arrested on Nov 3 from his hotel room in Islamabad. His colleague Justice (retired) Tariq Mahmood (who also got ill in prison) was with him earlier. Both had just reached Islamabad when they heard about the emergency. Expecting the arrest, Malik waited in his hotel room with the door open. The police arrived at about 10.30pm and took him to Kohsar police station where he deposited his cell phone. He arrived at Adiala Jail at 3am, half an hour after Aitzaz Ahsan.
    The following day the superintendent said Malik was being transferred “to a ‘better class’, by which he meant B Class. Aitzaz threatened to bang his head against the wall until it bled if they removed me. They left.”
    The superintendent was transferred, having apparently lost the trust of the agencies running the show. “The new Superintendent had a Taliban-style beard and no moustache,” says Malik. “He is the man who was Yusuf Raza Gillani’s, [PPP Leader] nemesis when he was in Jail. I was woken up at 2am and told he wanted to see me. We woke up Aitzaz. Hameed Gul (who was brought in with his son that day) offered to go with me, but I said no, Aitzaz is my leader. The superintendent said I was being transferred to Attock. Aitzaz again wanted to resist, but I refused. They would have taken me by force.”
    At around 3am, Malik was put in a police mobile along with Siddique-ul-Farooque, [PML Leader], who was being sent to Bahawalpur Jail — via Attock! Farooq had to endure the bumpy four-hour long ride to Attock, plus many more hours to Bahawalpur in the south. It was bitterly cold. The prisoners did not have adequate clothing. They arrived at Attock at 6.30 am, where plainclothesmen took Malik through a side gate, and into a room.
    “Inside was a mean-looking fellow, weighing about 200 pounds, with a shawl over his shoulders. He thumped his chest and said, ‘You know who I am? I am the person against whom the first suo moto action was taken’ [i.e. by Chief Justice of Pakistan]. He wanted to know where Hamid Khan (another former SCBA President) was — he had said that if Musharraf’s uniform would have to be peeled off if it was a ‘second skin’.”
    Uniformed policemen searched Malik so thoroughly “that if they had been looking for a needle in a haystack they would have found it.” He was glad he had removed his money from his socks and handed it in (it was deposited into his account). He was finger printed and photographed like a criminal. Plainclothesmen then took him to the old part of the jail to an area marked ‘Maut-yafta qaidiyon ke liye’ – for prisoners condemned to death. “There was no one else there. They opened a cell and pushed me in.” The cell was bare, with a high ceiling and a concrete slab for a bed. Malik was provided a rough blanket, a rug and a pillow.
    “At 8.30am, someone brought a bucket of tea and raw ‘nan’ (bread) which they offered through the bars. I refused it, saying I was on hunger strike — that is something I learnt from Aitzaz, as a very effective means of protest in jail. I told them I was not a criminal; I was brought there under preventive detention, not charged with any offence.”

    Source: Emergency Times

  64. @Athar

    This “Aata” buhran is again created to divert the peoples focus from Insaaf to roti.
    Again things are changed & keep on changing.
    So no more food & sheltre slogans will work. come out from 88-99 era, its 2007.

  65. We were told and we thought that NS is a different man altogether…… Ahhhh it was wrong. Who is better Fazlu or NS? One was straightforward from the first day (if all opposition boycott we will also boycott) or the other ( even if they make Shabaz PM, we will boycott…..only and only till the judiciary is at Nov 2nd position.

  66. I think this flour issue has been created to make PPP slogan more pronounce in Sind, after all Sind is the province where PPP will like to have her maximum number of seats in national assembly. the deal is working in a continuous way.
    I have the feeling NS will the biggest loser in this game, no support after the blunder of taking part in elections. Remember his supporters would never react, they would prefer staying at home, or might divert to some other independent effort afterall they are not blind.

  67. The lawyers should set up a fund in which we can pay from abroad and Inshallah millions would go in – we would not let lawyers go without any job inshallah.

  68. IK is holding a meeting with all the parties(boycotted ones) to decide how they will move forward for the restoration of judiciary.

    NS tried to hack the movement of justice by having photo shoots with the deposed judges & showing his solidarity with them, but when it came to actions, the same old lame excuses (won’t leave the field open)

    Lets see the reaction of the people, as everything is crystal clear now.

  69. I believe today is very bright day for pakistan. As it has cleared to whole nation that who are the one who only talk and misguid people and who are the one who simply ACT.

    I had a hope that Nawaz sharif would learn lessons from his PAST and will not contest in elections. I had a hope that he will lead masses in the right direction by defying the WRONG thing. But He showed that he is also one of those politicians who only talk and do actions for their own benefits.

    This day is very bright day, this day inshallah will bring new leaders in our country. As Every one knows that leaders are not born in days it takes years and i believe imran khan is going through that process. He has faced hardships and in those tough times he knew where his future lies so he remained firm on stance. May be his is not well known in villages and remote areas but with expanding influences of Media we will see that in next 5 to 6 six years all thse SHIT politicians like NAWAZ and SHAHBAZ will be vanished and only those leaders who stood firm on their stance will be in peoples hearts and mind.

    We all should be ready for tough 3 to 4 years head. This period will be very low in our history but as we all know every nations rise from the deep low points in their history. May be these coming years are very low periods of Pakistan and from that point onward may be we see light of hope.

  70. Be prepared for Javed Hashmi to join IK in the next 48 hours. I have heard from reliable sources, this is being ironed out right at this point.

    The stumbling point at this moment is the fact that Hashmi do not want to let go of eliminating g a y Sheikh Rashid from Rawalpindi. But his friends are telling him that Mush has planned a victory at any cost for the g a y ba stard.

    Be prepared for the news.

    BYe BYE NS abd SS.

  71. WOW…look at these clowns (mullahs, sharifs and Mrs. Zardari) they cannot agree on any one thing, they are afraid of each others shadows.

    Oh, what is Imran Khan going to do now ? wait another five years ? by that time no body is going to know who he is. He had all this momentum going for him but as usual his JAZBAT took over.

    Believe it or not Musharraf knows what he is doing. All these clown are going commit suicide (politically) pretty soon.


  72. People of Pakistan should open their eyes to the foolishness of all the so called politicians in this meeting. The only credible person in the room is Imran Khan who is loosing his credibility day by day by sitting in the laps of Mullahs and illiterate industrialists. I think he would serve Pakistan better by being the head of BCCP. All those who think about him as the future Prime Minister need to have their head examined. In the dirty political field of Pakistan, hypocrisy and back stabbing is name of the game. He will totally get ruined by all these enemies of Pakistan who can’t even decide whether they want to contest the upcoming elections or not. Pakistan is totally set to doom if any of these politicians ever get elected for office. Wake up Pakistani people and save Imran from these blood thirsty lizards.

  73. Mark my words PML-N will suffer the heaviest defeat ever, how can mush allow them to get a majority; the combinations in parliament will be PPP with JUI and other small paties of sindh Vs PML-Q with MQM, parliament will be a hung one and these Ganja brothers will be left gaping after seeing BB as the prime minister. I saw that many lawyers have joined PTI so IK hasn’t really lost.

  74. @all

    put yourself on NS and BB and Fazlu shoes and think for a moment…..

    they all have dubious pasts….if they choose the right path now then they would have to suffer for what they did before….they have murder charges,corruption charges against them….they all have been the part of establishment and now its too late for them to go against establishement…..

    if they some how decide to go by the principles then they will face the trials and will go to behind the bars….

    its too late for them to take a stand on principles…

    imran can take stand on principles bc he doesnt have many skeletons up in his closets except sex scandals…….

  75. Well I was not very much optimistic but I had to give a chance to NS but he proved to be corrupt politician agian. I still have the hopes with IK and lawyers and civil society. Lets see how IK can mobalise the masses. I am sure NS and BB will try to obstract them. IK can work with JI and they can lead the nation and can protest and can stop these illegal election by helping deposed justices.

  76. we are so naive that we think that thieves would support judges……

    put yourself on NS and BB and Fazlu shoes and think for a moment…..

    they all have dubious pasts….if they choose the right path now then they would have to suffer for what they did before….they have murder charges,corruption charges against them….they all have been the part of establishment and now its too late for them to go against establishement…..

    if they some how decide to go by the principles then they will face the trials and will go to behind the bars….

    its too late for them to take a stand on principles…

    imran can take stand on principles bc he doesnt have many skeletons up in his closets except sex scandals…….

  77. @Javed

    How credible is your source?

    By the way, I am from his constituency of Multan and have seen him closely during election of 90’s.

    One may expect anything from him.

    Often he is a man of his words but we must remember he is a politician and has spent years with NS and NS has been making him elected from his own constituency after his defeat (against Shah Mehmood Qureshi) from Multan.

    Honestly, I am not quite optimistic in his case but miracles happen.

  78. Question1:
    why you guys are giving free hand to lota league and musharaf???
    Musharaf’s statement: PCO and emergency will b lift on 16th Dec.

    if it is so, everything will be same as Nov 02.(lykin musharaf koo koan samjhaye ghaa…lollll)

  79. Maan,

    I have no reason to doubt the source but as with any second, thrird hand news you always have % reserved for not happening.

    If you saw Hashmi in the Capital Talk done at footpath in which he blasted SS for not offering his arrest when the CJ was arrested, the news seems to be pointing in the same direction. But we will see.

  80. @Haroon

    Musharaf thinks himself a King who can do anything without facing any consequences.

    As far as constitution is concerned he doesn’t consider it more valuable than his book “In the Line of Fire”.

    He is got very serious problem in his brain and to fix that restoration of Judiciary is very important.

  81. @Nawaz Sharief,
    How you can restore the judiciary by contesting the election? Do you think that Musraf and establishment will let you take 2/3 majority. Do you think that by dividing the vote between PMLN and PMLQ you can defeat PPP? Do you think you can defeat Fazlu? Why you made such a stupid decision? Why you are so idiot and could not take the pressure from 63 corrupt industrialists and feudals? Why did you lose the chance to rectify and mend and clear your image by not contesting the election. Nawaz Sharief those people who come for your reception were there to through Mushraf and PMLQ but you disappoint them.
    Nawaz Shairef you will be a history in PK polotics very soon INSHALLA.You could have made a history and left a legacy but you chose to remember as a loser and corrupt politician. Nawas Shaief I will have heart attack if I dont spit my anger here.

  82. @Haroon

    Q1: That is why NS has decided to participate in elections so Q aand PPP dont get a free hand in parliament and destroy the last hope of restoration of judges

    Q2: If NS is in parliament he will be the one jo mush ko samjhai ga

  83. We all know NS was brought into politics by Zia Ul Haq and he enjoyed till he was pro establishment and I am sure if he had been loyal to establishment even today and had he not gone against generals, he had still been the PM.

    Like our CJ Iftikhar. Till CJ iftikhar followed establishments lines, he had enjoyed every thing. CJ Iftikhar, Justice Ramde and others took oath under PCO in 1999 and they were all acceptable to establishment. But those who refused, they were sent home and no body even talked about them. CJ Saeed uz Zaman Siddiqui and Justice Wajeeh are 2 of those 6 honorable judges.

    But when CJ iftikhar stood for the people’s right, we forgot his oath under PCO in 1999 and his legitimizing Mush actions in 1999 and we are standing behind him and other honorable judges who have refused to take oath.

    Similarly NS did wrong things but since 1999 (even before 99) he is suffering because he is no more with establishment.

    During last 5 years look at his stand against Mush. He remained firm. Either MMA backed Mush or PPP stabbed all the movement against Mush.

    Today NS is the only one with mass following which is demanding the restoration of judges. He tried every thing to make boycott effective. But BB again played her cunning tactics like she played after signing charter democracy.

    If the nation didn’t vote for him and as a result if PPP and Q League got 2/3rd majority, rest assured they will legalize all actions of Nov. 03 by Mush. It would be just like 1999. When PCO judges (including CJ Iftikhar ) allowed Mush 3 years without elections and even allowed him to make amendments in constitutions and then 17th amendment by Q League and MMA legalized all Mush’s actions on Oct. 12, 99.

    Finally I wish NS and IK had been together in elections and had fought against Mush team Q league, PPP and Fazl Ur Rehman

  84. Rich and beautiful will keep on playing the big game of chess in the air-conditioned drawing rooms while the poor will keep on starving till death in the streets.
    O’ Allah please help the poor.

  85. I knew it….
    NS is under the thumb of Saudies. Pakistan never changes.
    It will be BB vs NS and co like Q etc for the next 10 years and then there will be another
    My dear Country Men. It is so sad yet obvious

  86. @jojo

    thanks GOD That he also invented death along with life…..

    bb ,mush,fazlu and ns will die one day also…

    thats the only sigh of relief at the moment …that these cruel people will also see the face of death one day ……but the trublesome issue is that they will be get replaced by others and we dont need that…
    so movement for change of system and restoration of rule of law shld continue no matter how long it takes….it will win one day inshallah…

    time passes by so quickly and one day all these generals and hypocrite politicians will regret there wrong doing…

  87. @ Malek
    Why did NS waited so long to realize that if they boycott then PPP and PMLQ will get a free hand….and was he saying till yesterday that even if mush make Shabaz PM I will boycott the elections?

  88. NS is the only leader (with street power) who can fight for restoration of judiciary on streets and inside parliament.

    NS with his very sensible political approach has maintained pressure on Mush. Imagine if NS had boycotted weeks ago then by now Lota league would have taken over Punjab. Lota league was waiting for such opportunity. Also PPP would have taken the lead in Sindh and parts of Punjab…. resulting in 2/3rd majority for PPP and Q. We all know what this would have meant? i.e end of restoration of jud@es issue

    It was NS who maintained pressure (until today i.e 4 weeks to elections) that election may be meaningless if jud@es are not restored. He made BB and Fazlu sit on a table and condemn Mush? Isnt that a big achievement?

    By taking part in elections he is now the only credible threat to Mush to raise voice in assembley as well as arrange/support mass street protests?

  89. @malek

    Even you by yourself has agreed that he will continue fight but won’t be able to do it.

    He was very loud when he was visiting the Judges & having foto-sh00ts with them and when it came to action, the same old lame excuse (won’t leave field open)

  90. Rihat

    i hope my above comments answer your qst

    in summary, NS waited because PMLN on its own boycotting would not have been as effective as joint boycott with PPP.

    There is no doubt that he or his brother SS will be PM because they both cannot even take part in elections! This shows their sincerety that despite knowing that they themselves cannot be PM they are fighting the elections…..because PPP & Q do not get 2/3rd to crush the movement for restoration of judiciary

  91. Malek,
    NS supporters want Mush out of this world. They will never come out to vote for NS in any serious numbers to provide him more than 10-12 seats.

    They will take the option of sitting at home. They have seen what parliaments are good for in the last 15-20 years.

    It is a bad calculation by NS.

  92. @Asif

    i said: that he will continue to fight and will fight inside parliament (through his elected representatives) as well as outside parliament (based on his street power)

  93. @MALEK

    NS is not bycotting bc he can’t go all out against establishment…he has been in govt for more than 15 years startinf from his minstership in 1981….he has way too many skeletons in his closet and he can’t act angainst the wills of establishmetns…same is true with all others except imran khan (who only has sex scandals which haunt him from time to time) ////aa.javed hashmi,ik,achekzei etc shld all jion hands …and shld fight for laywers….

  94. A Javed

    your comments are based om assumption….People of Pak are very sensible and they fully understand why NS is taking part in elections. I have no doubt based on his street power shown in his jalsas since he has been back in Pak that people will make extra effort to come out to vote for NS

  95. @malek

    you think that its people who vote…

    man our elections are held in isi…on in polling stations…and ns is smart enough to know that he can’t make even a strong opposition in these elections…..he is going for elections bc he is ordered to do so otherwise there r so many cases against him which are haunting him and his bro….

    establishment se PANGA naheen le sektay …NITHER BB NOR NS….they both have too many weaknesses to go against establishment…

  96. @imran malik
    its strange that you say NS has skeletons in closet but IK hasnt?

    other than sex scandals what about IK statement of support for Mush when he first imposed martial law. IK even said that he gave Shaukat Aziz’s name for PM

    i dont want to dig into past particularly for IK because i have a lot of respect for IK for his stance now and his efforts over last 2 years in particular

  97. Malek,

    I can tell you, people from my area, PML voters, wont be coming out.

    People want clear principles and stance. They all know realise the current establishment has to be toppled to bring any change in Pakistan and they are prepared to vote. They have no time for games any more.

  98. Nawaz Sharif is used to make such lame excuses since oct 1999.

    First time when he did leave Pakistan for Saudi Arabia when police were beating leagues on the roads.

    Second time when he disclosed his deal with Saudis after supreme court ‘s decision in his favor to come back to Pakistan.

    And today he made same lame excuse to go for election.

    He is not that NS who stood firm against international pressure at the time of Nuclear test but new NS with hear on his head.

    Better he should quit politics and start modeling.

  99. @malek

    for supporting mush and naming shaukat pm is nothing as compared to what bb and ns have in there NAAAMAAMAAL..

    IK cant be blackmailed for put behind the bars for his initial support of mush…but ns and bb are in a position that even if they want to go anti establishment they can’t…its bc of there previous tenures…they have too many weaknesses…

  100. All those who are participating in the election and claiming the restoration of brave judges are pure munafiqs and good thing is that these munafiqeen has been exposed .There is no doubt that postive change will happen and brave judges will be restored with brave people of pakistan excluding the munafiq politicians and those politicians who are not taking part are really doing a great job whethe it is IK,QAZI or AChikzai ,salute to these politicians and young lawers ,students and other coommon people who are protesting the just cause of justice ,they are joining the qafla Husain and other following yazadi path

  101. @maan

    100% agree with you…

    and also a week ago ns and ss said they wouldnt appeal against there denial of cotesting in elections …but yesterday they did….

    they just dont stick with there words…

    (both bb and ns party) are too weak (bc of the crimes comitted by them in there previous era so they fall prey of establishment so easily..

  102. @imran malik

    if we rely on your argument about ISI, which i perhaps agree with….then we should never vote??
    ISI can only play a part but we cannot stop voting because of that

  103. IK was a new bee in the politics in 1999 and made few mistakes but immediatly he realised that he can not trust Mushraf. He is standing with his stanc and that will make him a mature visionary and powerfull leader in the history of Pakistan and he will leave a legacy. Which leader after Jinnah had left the legacy. We can trust IK and give him fair chance and if we floating votes then we should give IK a chance.


    if bb and ns would have bycotted together ..it would have been final nail in the coffin for mush and his coronies…it would have settled the issue of establishmen’s supermacy once for all…..it would have restored judciary…


  105. Tell me one thing – so many of you are so upset that NS has decided to participate. I believe the people who should be really worried should be PPP and Q because they are going to lose votes. Say if NS had boycotted teh elections – what then would have happened. Elections would still have gone ahead because PPP JUI MQM and Q league were participating in it and then would people would have liked to come on streets against them

    They are not ready to come now – why would they come out then.

    If NS had done it for himself he would have made deal with Musharraf and he and his brother would have not been debarred plus he would have asked his wife to file in nominations also.

    Plus there is long time till Jan 8 – elections can by boycotted until then.

    Dont sit in ideal situtations – try to make problems for your enemy as much as possible and at every forum.

    I believe NS took teh right decision – he did after discussing with his party members and I believe that until present situation if he had boycotted – believe me nothing would have happened.

    As long as army is with Musharraf you cannot remove him

  106. @Malek

    You talk about Imran ’s scandles…

    You know this nation is very generous. If NS/BB had taken stand firmly on the issue of restoration of judiciary, this nation would have forgiven all of their sins (cowardly escape to Saudi Arabia to corruption of billions of dollars) but It seems the sins are so serious God doesn’t want them to be forgiven.

  107. Sacking of the judges and imposing emergency was the biggest insult to all pakistanis. Bigger attack than India attacking the country.

    Should any pakistani have any self respect at the moment, let alone take part in the military elections?

    Will you participate elections conducted by him???????


  108. Imran – they didnt appeal in front of high court judges who are members of tribunal but they wrote direct letters to election commissioner and he asked them to refer to the tribunal and they have refused to do that.

    So please dont misquote the situation

    I am sure there are many guys here who are upset because NS did not boycott because with his boycott PPP and Q would have got the benefit and no one would have bothered after the elections.

    NS took the right decision in present circumstances.

  109. @chussain

    i bet you that ns and ss would both be allowed to contest in elections now…(ns will sit in opposition while pppp and q will have share in govt)

    what would you say then..

    p.s ive always appreciated your piont of view in most cases but now i think you r leaning toward ns and showing a bit biasness.

    standing by principles is what needed in pakistan…this manipulative politics will continue on and on if no body goes against the tide…. i think IK is setting the trend……he will be remembered as 1st one…many will follow inshallah

  110. Can anyone tell me whatever JI did with Imran why is he sitting with Qazi by teh way. The damage which JI did to movement at that time is irrepable and if for example JI is so moralistic why dont they walk out of MMA. What would my colleagues say about it now?

    IK should himself realise whom he should trust and whom he should not. He should concentrate on making his party broadbased and focus on that rather than making alliances because alliances would simply waste his time.

    If in last five years he had concentrated on strengthening the grassroots of his party he would not have been in this situation where he has been ditched and stabbed by all his allies.

  111. ive always appreciated your piont of view @chussain
    in most cases but now i think you r leaning toward ns and showing a bit biasness.

    standing by principles is what needed in pakistan…this manipulative politics will continue on and on if no body goes against the tide…. i think IK is setting the trend……he will be remembered as 1st one…many will follow inshallah

    what about if ns and ss are allowed to contest in few days…will u change ur opinion then..

  112. chussain,
    What would have happened after the elections if PPP and Q League were in and everybody else boycotted?

    Ypu are right. Nothing would have changed… miliatry operations, corrouptions, lawlessness, fighting between PPP and Q League about resources, incompetent people in charge of running the show. Would they have succeeded? Would people have just settled down when they still see horrors in front of them?

    I dont think so.

  113. @Malik

    Thanks but I don’t need to read these articles. For me it is enough to see what he (NS) used to claim and what he is doing now!

    I have seen your messages and it appears you are very eager to defend him no matter what…thn go on defending him!

  114. Lets see what is the turn out of people on this elections –

    I would see how many pakistanis would have self respect on Jan 8.

    Seeing these guys filing papers in thousands cleerly shows that they are all shameless with no conscience.

    We as a nation deserve this because we have asked for it.

    Rather than criticising NS , I believe everyone should ask IK to clearly tell JI to leave MMA if they are sincere. And if IK wants to do anything real for himself and this country he should give up this politics of alliances. He is nothing but wasting his time.

  115. bycotting the elections was the pricinple stand taken by ik and qazi is with him in that stand…so whats wrong with ik appreciating qazi’s stand….

  116. Javed

    people have settled for now – except for in few cities – all other people are just sleeping. In Karachi hardly anyone has moved. Where is that crowd which came for CJ Iftikhar. Why are they sleeping. Why are they not coming out. They dont need to be violent – all they need is to just come in thousand and be counted without beign violent.

    its no use blaming NS.

    If IK feels that Musharraf is unconstituional why did he sit in that assembly for five years – and what was stopping him from doing now.

  117. @Why did PMLN resign from parliament? Because it was a sham. Nothing has changed for better since Mush’s election (has gone worst). Nawaz Shareef sabotaged the whole justice movement by delaying. Time was the essence …..ask any political analyst when was the most appropriate time to launch street agitation against the dictator now or just after the emergency? It was all going in the right directions for the justice movement till Nawaz was in his palace in Saudi Arabia.

  118. Guys if you go with the number of seats, JI was having more seats than PLMN, so no justification to go into elections on the basis of lame excuses.

  119. Imran – what is teh use of that principle when you cannot mobilse people for that.

    Come on this is real politics. So long as BB is not on board – the West are least bothered.

    Plus suppose NS had refused to go in election which in fact he is not fighiing for elections in anyway and neither is SS and Kulsoon Nawaz but his party is determined – so if he refused to yield to his party – they would go to Q league. Last time NS only got 16 seats in NS – so you can see that

  120. chussain

    ns and ss will be allowed to contest….

    will that change ur opinion

    i appreciate your view always but sorry to say but this time you r a bit bias toward ns…

  121. @chussain

    With bari manadate last time NS could not save his government what can some one do just by going in assemblies. whethr it is tough always take the HUsani path not YAZADI path and by hussani path I mean always stand with the just cause and all those who go with the wrong cause follow yazadi path

  122. chussain,
    If you are going to go on official turn out figures, it will be around 28-36% with at least 45-49% rigged votes.

    So you can work out the true likely turn out.

    The point is everyone apart from PML Q believe there will be massive rigging and there will no legal recourse, why the hell take part?

  123. Don’t worry its a month away to see where NS stands…………

    But for the time being we are more interested in the next move of IK, JI & others, how they will organize the protests & keep its momentum.

  124. chussain
    your posts have always been awsome but this time you r gettin a little bias in ns favour here …
    long term benefit shld be preferred over the temprorary relief.

    …NS made a blunder of going to ksa in 2000…now he is doing the same..

    few seats in NA are nothing in comparison to the real fight been fought by lawyers today…its a historical moment ….politicians will rue it ..they will regret it …but it would be too late. .
    ik will emerge as winner sooner or later inshallah..

    time passes by so quickly

  125. chussain,

    So what about Fazlu? Was he right when he said I will only boycott if all opposition boycott?
    At least he was straight forward. What about Qazi? He broke the MMA alliance just for principle.

  126. Although I don’t like the decision to contest the election I can understand it under the prevailing circumstances.

    70% of the population lives in the villages. Villages have their own political dynamics. There are always two parties and have a leg up on ur opponent is very important, That is why they dont boycott the elections.

    In this situation not contesting the election for a bigger party does enormous damage.

    I think they can still salvage something out of this bad situation. They should contest the election on a two point agenda
    1. Restoration of the judiciary
    2. No legal cover ammendment in the constitution al la 8th and 17th Amendment

  127. If we assume that people have not come out hence NS was right to go for elections, will they come out when NS will complain that he has been done in the elections?

    Lets see how many people will now come out and welcome him like they did until yesterday?

    The valcano is there waiting to burst.. there is very big chance of civil war igniting at any point.

  128. IKs mobilization of students is the biggest change in the current scanerio.

    Hes successful in sending a vey clear message to the masses. Even the level of interest in politics by us on different forums, the credit goes to IK for his clear message.

  129. Pls let us not ge carried away and ignore the ground realities.

    People of Pakisstan have not come out to defend their rights. Hw can we expect politicians to aggitate.

    If there was ongoing aggitation it would have been impossible for PPP to contest the election. And PML N would not have contested either.

    I was talking to a PML(N) official today and I was told that the constituency organisation of the party wanted to go in the elections even if they were rigged because it helps make them organise and mobilise people.

  130. @tauqeer

    times have changed and after the independence of media people’s opinion have changed drasitcally….this assumption that bb and ns are the only potent forces is wrong..i think people have waken up and if the free and fair elections are conducted ..ik aa and all anti establishment forces can spring surprises and come up with flying colors…

    anyway even if it doesnt happen then still one shld always stick by principles to be victorious in a longer run…remember what tipu sultan said

    how world remember yazeeed….and how wourld remember hezret hussain aleh salam

    islam zinda hota hay her kerbela ke baaaad

  131. Three weeks ago, there was servey reported in the press that 76% of the public are in favour of election boycott because they are dummy elections.

    Has NS considered this? or was the servey wrong. Listening to the public and media people I thnk it was pretty much near the current mode.

  132. if people can’t come to the streets that gives the license to politicians to succum to the army..???

    its there job to fight for the popular sentiment of public…regardless of people are coming out or not..thats there job …thats y they are there representatives of people…..they get paid for it….in assemblies…in ministries etc….

  133. @tauqeer

    The people that we say on electronic media voicing unanimously for boycott, when asked by NS. You don’t consider them people???????????????????????????

  134. @tauqeer

    The people that we saw on electronic media voicing unanimously for boycott, when asked by NS. You don’t consider them people???????????????????????????

  135. ” was talking to a PML(N) official today and I was told that the constituency organisation of the party wanted to go in the elections even if they were rigged because it helps make them organise and mobilise people”

    re these PML guys mega rich that they spare millions they are prepared to waste when they know they will not fair chance of winning? Or do they under estimate the Mush plan to rig his way out of this mess?

    I do not buy this. Either PML are dumn or not better than BB.

  136. @ Asif

    I am sorry to say butif u try to be harsh on NS and RELATIVELY softer n mush..it will b supporting mush cause and not the democratic forces..

    also plzz keep the facts straight..
    we all respect IK as our natioanl hero..but political achievements r some thing different..

    Students and Lawerrs had been organising protests at their own…PTI has nothing to do with that..
    infact in the first rally of students in Aabpara, IK promised to appear there, but DID NOT and students were disappointed..

    can u give ma single example afterrr imran;s annnoucnement of Boyccott.. where his part organised anyactivity??

    u think jsut announcng for boyctt and then sititng in drawing rooms will serve the purpose..not at all..
    and if u have seen IK in todays nes after APDM meeting , he was quoting PMLN reasoning for no boycott..to use elections for giving momentum to the movement..becos otherwise it is not there at all…

  137. Borthers I am just trying to salvage something out of whole of this fiasco.

    Let me declare that I have no party affiliations and by an large I agree with all of your sentiments but the fact of the matter is that the people of Pakistan have not come out on the street in large enogh numbers to help launch an aggitation.

    How can the politicians take a tough stance when the public is busy watching the latest MUJRA on tele at home

  138. Another main issue is that most of the people who r considering the lawers movement and media………r assuming that thesee uraban areas are…all pakistan.
    but ground reality is different..

    in many rural areas..people have only PTV to watch…and they dont know AT ALL abt the judiciary issue etc. (UNFORTUNATELY).
    there the way to get people along u is thru elctions momentum and atmosphere..

  139. @GM

    i think we shldnt advocate personalities…

    we shld talk ab principles …
    just tell me that under pco. when lawyers are bycotting the courts and sacrificing on there bread and butter …even thinking about the political gains is a justified act….

  140. @Gm
    its not rocket science that if bb and ns would have bycotted then mush couldnt survive….

    for me mush is the root cause of all this chaos and if he is removed then every think will fall in place….judiciary .media every thing..

    so dont you think that after contesting elections pml-n and pppp are strengthening him

  141. @ Asif

    I beleive that Oraganisation is v important for a politcal part and for IK to convert a fan club in ot a politcal party he shud have and should foucs to build a good team and then a good downstrean organisation of PTI.
    unfortunaltey he have not given any priority to this…

    in JawabDeh with iftikhar, though he admitted that he spent 6 months for such exercise twice but then all the organisations left PTI.
    i think he shud not have stopped after that and shud find reasosn for that and work on.

    He whould first get a 16 member team before thinking of reaching to 160 millions..

    at the moment, even in fair elctions , PTI is not in a position to win more than one constiuvcy and that also only for IK in Mianwali..
    and u know wat..form mianwali also..IK can wikn only becos he is NIAZI..otherwise 100 shaukat khanum hospitals wud not have given him this oppportunity..
    and may b u know that last time when he won his seat…PMLN supported him
    and he did seat adjsutment with PPP to give them provincial seat..and only then he got to succeedd..

  142. @GM

    please comment after watching this video, This was a pre-organized lecture but turned out be the most popular one, as it was first speech against PCO, just moments after the imposition of emergency.

  143. befor blaming the external forces (media,judiciary,army,agencies,politicians)we shld do a ketharis of our selves (internal soul searching)….

    we take sides and tend to blindly stick to our biased approaches….bb jyaalaas never admit that bb is a manipulative hypocrite …and now we can see that ns supporters are blindly supporting his decision..

    i was ns supporter ..but im courageous enough to be the first one to admit that im gravely dissappionted by his act of strengthening the tyrant by taking part in elections

  144. 1- why are people accusing only NS for not boycotting? Why dont they blame Q, PPP and MQM, Fazlu?

    2- why is only NS being made resposible for restoration of judiciary? Why not Q, PPP, MQM, Fazlu, IK?

    Ans1: Some people may be helping intentionaly or un-intentionally Q/PPP objectives that jud@es do not get restored

    Ans2: Because NS is the only one who can motivate street power as well as inside Parliament.

  145. @ Imran malik

    Its not the questions of boycott or no boycott.main issue is still the restoration of judicary..

    boyott is a part of stratedgy to achive the main goal……and goig for elctions to get the momentum of a move ment and to mobilsie people across the country is another straedgy….

    u can only blame a person when objective is different and not when stratedgy is differetn..

    if NS is not going to give any support to mush on 18th amendment or so and also if NS is still stick to stance on judiciary we should back him…..

    He has not filed appeal to PCO judges..otherwise for SS case surely he cud have got clearance for elctiosn becos his bail for the case against him was already given and it was ony matter of appearance in court of ocp judge for appealwithout any argments……..but he did not……
    lets be honest and keep the FACTS straight..
    lets not figt when our common objective is same..it will only help the dictator…

  146. @malik

    go over this forum and all the posts and u will find the hatred against ppp etc…pmlq is not even worth discussing since they are cretified lotaaas..

    we were pining hopes on ns but he has let us down …so he will have to listen music now

  147. i have heard that NS and IK have reached an understanding that NS would let IK contest by-elections from one of the seats vacated by PMLN.

    This is the reason that IK was very accomodating after APDM decision today and did not speak against NS. Infact he was quite nuetral about NS taking part in elections. Deep inside IK knows that NS is sincere with the country and on jud@es issue whereas JI like always is doubtful

  148. @gm

    mush is weakest today…and if he is given legitmacy today buy electing in elections then after few months he will be stronger….

    y to let him go when you can topple him with assurity.by bycotting..in a hope that we will topple him in future through parliament …

  149. lets be honest and keep the FACTS straight..


    See the lecture delivered on nov evening by IK at LUMS & then decide by yourself who is responsible for students movement As for facts it was not aabpara but LUMS where students recorded first protest against PCO

  150. @ Asif,

    my point ws about role of PTI for organsing activities..

    u think it shud contunue lie that only imran go here and there in talkshows or lectures off and on……….and this way we can mobilsie a movement…without trying for any particiaption of his own party??

    my dear it wont work this way..and has not..
    get your party organised and lead…..and also let it be more tha one man show…
    after imran can u name a single person in PTI who is capable of winnign a single seat (in fair elctions ..
    or any single leader after imran that peole know ..(i m sure even 90% of iK fans cant name other person of party).

    i beleive this is the area PTI needs to work on..jsut closing the eyes wont help at all

  151. Malek

    Total lie…… Imran left before the press conference. All parties which are boycotting are meeting at Imran’s resident @ 10:00 today.

  152. @Imran
    if you had so much faith and were pinning hopes on NS…you should respect his decision, which infact is his tactic/strategy to get rid of Mush and restore judiciary.

    i believe we all agree on our goals (as per GM comments above) it is the tactics to achieve the goals where there is a small difference?

  153. @ imran malik

    YES..its tru that of today PPP and PMLN coyccott the elctions…game might b over for mush v soon…

    NS tried his best to acheive tha..but failed..
    it is not that BB want boycott and NS is hesitating..infact if BB offers for a moment..NS is there to announce it ..even til 8th january..

    but if BB is not willing and openly saying thaat…and fazlu, ANP also doing the same…then we need to change the stratedgy…..i repeat STRATEDGY….and not changin the Objective…

    from mianwali…Inamullah niazi is contesting on both seats of Mianwlai..on PMLN ticekt..i think IK shud support him..

    if IK will focus on boycoott .in this scenario..then it will help mush party for rigging becos of low turn out..

    so best way to resist will be to go in large number to make it difficult for mush party..

  154. @GM

    You know one very little thing, the people who are discussing on this forum is not due the path@tic “Nazriyya Zaroorat” of BB & NS.

    But they are here when they saw some hope in the politics for people like IK.

    Accept it or not its also a ground relaity as you term.

  155. I think Mr.Sharif has made a wise decision. IK and Qazi shabib are out of touch with ground realities. IK knew he would not win any seats esp. this time as PPP and PML-N are sure to give him a tough competition at the polls. Its very convinient to call for boycott when you have a small and pretty insignificant “one man” party. One can afford to take the moral highground when there is nothing to lose. I am sure most of the significant lawyers like Aetizaz Ahsan will end up taking part in the elections too and that will make IK look like a real fool.

    With respect to all the ExPats on this forum who seem to believe that 100% of the people of Pakistan are against Musharraf. Please talk to the man on street, any regular non political middle class person. Most will favor Musharraf over any other politician including IK. He has brought prosperity, stability and economic progress to Pakistan. Something which might not be possible if we had the type of democractic rule we had before.

    Plus all this talk of a true democracy. Do we as a nation really believe we are ready for democracy. When 50% or more ppl of Pak are poor and uneducated, hence cannot read newspapers or afford to vote as they wish. They get told by there landlords who to vote for. Do we seriously think we can bring true democracy to our nation with a system like this.

    All politicians are essentially made up of the same material. They use democracy when it serves them and abandon it when it does’nt. They use slogans like “Freedom of judiciary”, “Freedom of media” when it serves there purpose. These same politicians who are chanting these slogans today have done far worse things to judiciary and media in the past. So lets not forget history.

    In the end, I am glad NS had the sense not to be pressured and manipulated by IK and Qazi shaib.

  156. If Mush is the weakest today…..then the credit (other than laweyrs and students) goes to NS.

    1- street power since his return
    2- getting PPP and Fazlu (who were partners of Mush) on the table to discuss Boycott and also raise judiciary issue.
    3- clear stance on judiciary – being on top of his political agenda
    4- getting APDM organised to keep up the pressure
    5- Disappearance of Lota League from scene?

  157. @ Asif

    You have not addressed the issue of PTI apthetic organisation..infact No organisation…and people doesnt know a single perosn of PTI other than IK..

    this sis the real issue u shud focus..
    not the other aaein baaein shaaein

  158. @muziqmonk

    which kina prosperity………
    People are struggling for “Aata” for quite some time now.

    Are this hype is also created by the ExPats

    Go & have fresh air

  159. @GM

    we are for a change & we are doing it quite successfuly.

    I would ask hyou the same question on the night of Jan8, that where stands NS now.

    Its a month away…………

  160. To all the idealist and fan of IK

    This forum itself is an example that people have different point of view. I personally think if NS ddi boycott the election then the only thing he would earned was credibility. Now credibility has no value in Pakistan and NS knows it.

    All of you guys know who is definitely running elections

    1) PMLQ
    2) PPP
    3) Diesel
    4) MQM Ghunda Mafia

    Now out of APDM, how many parties has real vote bank except NS? not a whole lot. You guys stil don’t believe that we live in corrupt society.

    NS will lose in either case by going for or against election. If NS boycotts then PMLQ definitely wins Punjab, and now in this case, PMLQ will become a bigger loser in election.

    In either case we can hope that PPP do not help Mushin 18th amendment.

  161. @all

    What a pathetic decision by Nawaz Sharif, just proves all he cares abt is Money and Power.

    at one side he opposes Mush for firing the judges and on the other end he has decided to contest the elections Mush has setup, and is ready to accept him as President of Pakistan if he becomes prime minister.

    Ppl like him disgust me. my advise to voters go with the lesser evil who ever u think that is. in ur opinion.

  162. we keep on blaming NS on judiciary issue…

    where were all other leaders and what did they do or achieve before NS came back? and why could they not themselves get the judiciary re-instated?

  163. @ rihat

    point is not ..that NS is beliving elctiosn to be fair..
    this step is as one of the different steps to be taken to give resistence to dictator regime..
    this is game f nerves..why give a freehand to the opponent ..any where…why not get him engaed everywhere…

    please understand…..Principles and objective is important….

    lets dont fight on ..if u like SABZI and I like DAAL…and osme one else lieks Chicken,…

    yes if some one gives imdemnity to musi acts and supports him for his illegal acts..then u can say that the person doing this is wrong..

    plzz get out of this confusion…
    and dont help the dictator by this divison within the democratic people..

  164. @ Asif…
    that condition of fair elcctions..i m givign a supposed scenario…..
    and my point is that becos of no organisation of PTI…it will not be able to win a single seat even then ..

    if u know any such area or cosntituency..plzz do share with me…
    and i think u have read my psot how IK won last election from mianwali…any doubts?

  165. @GM
    I agree with you….

    no one should boycote…..

    go to people …get maximum vote…go into the parliamnet….change the laws and bring the judges back…..

    do it the easy way and better way…..

  166. @Asif

    I am not saying Musharraf has totally eliminated poverty from Pakistan. He and Shaukat Aziz has however brought a lot of economic growth and progress in Pak which was never seen before. Our GDP has grown by leaps and bounds and our stock market has never been better. This is not something which I am claiming on my own but respected foreign papers like Wall Street Journal have reported. The prosperity will eventually trickle down to all walks of life, it cannot change overnight. If you take the example of India, even today despite all the talk of India emerging as an economic giant, there is still more poverty in India than in Pak. So lets not be personal and talk about issues.

  167. I would request that my dear friends refrain from the analogy of tiger. These days the poor animal is either found in circus or animal sancutaries.

  168. I believe NS has put his own reputation at risk for the sake of Pakistan. He probably knows that the elections will be rigged and he is not personally allowed to take part…..despite this he is taking part

    reason: so Mush does not get the satisfaction of getting 2/3rd and get his illegal act of PCO approved by parliament

  169. @ GM

    Why till yesterday NS for boycott. Why did he say he will boycott even if Mush make Shabaz PM. Why was he talking big? What has changed since yesterday?

  170. GUYS,

    Please understand the POINT.

    a) if we believe the elections will be rigged, and

    b) there is no court to give you justice

    then should someone still go for the fake elections?

    Musharraf & Co will do the biggest rigging, at least South Esat Asia have seen. If you dont believe this, then please go for elections.

  171. @ rihat

    NS did say even today…that lets enter the elction environment to reach peole…and to get the oppoents busy at eacha nd every battle………..and the decision to boycott can be made..i required..at any stage later..

    we need to understand that jsut using slogan of boycott is USELES..
    point is to get the peole out so we can kickout the dictator..

    if we support NS now and give a momentum to the movement for restoration of judiciary. only then we can have upperhand to decide for a boycott..

  172. I believe our views about Pakistani politics are much more clear now. Pakistani people have started to understand it, although it will take some time to come upto spark but it has started and now we are getting more and more understanding of characters of our national leaders. Thanks to all sorts of media (including pkpolitics)

    These politicians used to make people fool easily but it is not that easy now, I see many thoughful analysis on this web site not from professional column writers but from ordinary people. It is a good sign.

    People of Pakistan are awakening for Pakistan, they are thinking for Pakistan, they are feeling pain for Pakistan. My fellow citizens keep it up and help those who are still living in fools age, they are also our brothers it is out duty to help them to understand the truth. I am feeling pround to be a Pakistani, I am feeling proud to be fellow citizens of those who have vision to see light inspite of extreme darkness around them.

    Love and respect for Pakistanis.
    Pakistan Zindabad.

  173. NS saying one thing today and second tomorrow.
    Benazir is the real winner….. she will gain the most out of it. We will see how many votes/seats PMLN will get. In my opinion Mush won……he said he will have the last punch.

  174. @GM

    I will be back on this site only after Jan8 results, since now your openly supporting one partys agaenda being an dmin its quite unusual, better change the name of the site from pk to NS politics.

  175. Here is what I think:

    1- NS did not make a comeback to this country after making a deal with Saudis that he’ll participate elections and would not participate in any effort to weaken Mush!

    2 – Why we people of Pak are sooooooo naive that we still believe that NS or BB would work towards any benefit or wishes of Pakistanis! NEVER, NEVER! They are ready to foray into our national wealth and power yet again.

    3- These eletions are going to be rigged, and politicians are all lots and manafig!

    4- Our only hope is struggle of Lawer movement. Lets put our weight behind them… let’s support them if there is any ray of hope left for us.

    Lawyers Zindabad

  176. @ rihat

    i repeat the same point…
    NS did not change any thing for his stance on judicary and for mush illegal actions..

    its only the question of stratedgy to counter mushi party…in whatever form..

    boycott and no boycott……..with intention and objective of restoration of jsudicary is gud…..

    importance shud be given to the principle stance..for rest of the moves………good politcs is not to reveal ur cards to ur oppoent..so he can get enuf time to counter u …let the oppent remain confused abt ur next move….there is no harm in that…

  177. @ Asif

    i am not @dmin of this site..i dont know what made u to assume this all..

    and i thought we cud have gud objective debate abt PTI organisation and future…but i was suprised that u cudnt bear positive critcism….that infct will b gud for PTI….com on….
    u want urself limited to jsut blaming others??……..self accountability is a more difficult task…but always with some rewards…..it will never be wasted…

  178. GM on December 10th, 2007 12:38 am @ Asif…
    that condition of fair elcctions..i m givign a supposed scenario…..
    and my point is that becos of no organisation of PTI…it will not be able to win a single seat even then ..

    if u know any such area or cosntituency..plzz do share with me…
    and i think u have read my psot how IK won last election from mianwali…any doubts?

  179. @ Asif

    i didnt get you..why u repeated my post here again…

    i was quoting ot my earlier message..that u can see above..where i mentioned how IK won the mianwali seat…i mena with full support of PMLN and PPP..and most importantly imran khan being niazi…and without that it was impossible..
    so wats worng with that that?

  180. read the 1st sentence, I didn’t addressed you when I commented about fair election condition, I addressed dmin.

    So read your 1st sentence twice & let me know wat one should assess from this.

  181. @ Asif,

    but i thought as we were discussing on this all, and i had referred to IK electionability in case of fair elections…

    soi guess i was right to assume u r addressing to me….
    and if it was not for me and was for admin in response to some other message…

    then i m not sure if u have read all my messages..becos u have not replied to any of the issues raised..

  182. @GM

    whoever you are, jan 8 is not far away to see the real actions from NS……….

    Hes still relying on spin doctrine & there will be one more spin, rigging has let us down.

    Next time I will do this & that……

  183. S*tupid decision on part of the apdm…i mean wtf seriously, imran khan is the only sane person , no one will vote these jacka**es….Nawaz sharif has once again lied, in his speeches he constantly said to boycott elections and now he is doing just that. People will not vote these idio*ts

  184. NS declared assets as he does not own even a car.Kalsoon has gold worth only one lakh(6 Tolas as per current rate) and hold a cash in the banks totaled one crore.NS has tottal property worth 12 crore.
    May Allah Bless Pakistan as NS just one loan alone of 5 billion was written off in 1985 by the Zia regime.Who does posses all these huge bsuineses and house comprised 3 marabah land in Raywand.

  185. @gm

    lets suppose that NS had announce bycott…then it would have been a pmlq and pppp fight….none of them is willing to sit in opposition…us dont want to have pppp sit in opposition and mush dont want pmlq to sit in opposition …so there wouldnt be any opposition..
    the scenerio without ns would be very awkward…they need an opposition…so they want ns to participate…

    had he bycotted it would have been a unstable parliament..but they are providing the legetemecy and stability to the mush by participating…

    and dont fall in the ploy that they can raise there voice in parliament..opposition in parliament dont bring changes in pakistan ….its either establihsment or street agitation that lead to change….with fazlu bb and chaudharies all working for mush they will legetemize any mush’s act anyways…so ns’s best bet was bycott which he didnt avail bc of pressure of establishment…..

    he has been black mailed…otherwise he has to face music…face trails…shahabaz has sebzawar cases …ns has corruption cases etc

  186. @ MH

    exactly …and i was amazed too…

    look at his lucrative life style in england …look at his life in pakistan for last 20 years….

    and look what he is disclosing as property….shame….

  187. if we can curse bb and fazlu for there atrocities then when it comes to ns we shld do the same…

    i have been posting against bb jayaalaas all along and now im posting against ns jyaalaas who are showing the same level of biasness and stiffness ..non flexible blind foldedness…..wake up guies dont worship these idols…they are all manipulative for there agendas …


    and plz folks just take the word “GROUND REALITY” out of your dictionaires….dont use this word its synoymous to NAZRIA-E-ZAROORET…..

  188. Guys don’t lose hope and don’t listen to Mush lovers. As a friend of mine just emailed(and I agree with him):

    “And by the way, we will notice that many of the participants of these elections will join us after the elections (including some of the main Political Parties who are currently having grandiose ideas) and will lose their credibility in public as well, so lets not lose hope. Even if elections do happen its not the end of the world, the main game will start after the elections and will continue till the next elections (expected within 1 – 2 years under the auspices of true Judiciary). InshAllah.

    So sit tight and stay tuned,”

  189. Guys! less than 4 weeks left. We will be victorious in any of these scenarios:

    1. BB & NS win: a big blow to Mush

    2. Chaudhries and Karachi Qatils (MQM)win: a united opposition.

    Use these four weeks in mobilizing people (even those who are boycotting).

  190. @ shamveel

    you can be happy for the time being. But we don’t lose hope because only Ibless is disappointed.

    I have prayed and will pray again that whenever you or your loved ones are in trouble, may you come across with judges who deprive you of justice by siding with their ‘special oath’. I hope Chaudhries take over all your property. Then I will ask you (like you were saying ‘I told you already!).

  191. A Big Drama!

    Script is written- Everyone is playing their role at the designated time-
    BB and NS playing their roles as designed at given time.
    ONLY Poor and innocent are suffering-Whatever happen we will never forget the sacrifices of our true heroes: couple of judges- Lawyers and few journalist and the struggle of civil society.
    thats the only hope we have.

  192. Do not loose hope .The politicians who are participating in election will loose the sympathy of people and the struggle of Lawers ,the students will continue and and an interesting dimension it is free from left right or religious vesous secular ,one side staunch secularists like ASMA jehangir and other side is Qazi hussain Ahmed of JI,both toghethe are fighting the same cause the restoration of Brave Judges and the Rule of law along with the centrist and nationalists politicians lik Achikzaiu and dr Magasi of sind

  193. I just spoke to my friend whos one friend from PMLn is contesting election. The candidat told my friend that it was a part of the deal that PMLN will run Punjab Assembly and PPP will be in center and PMLQ will be out.

    A PMLN ticket holder said that NS is doing all darama as it had been decided long time before.

  194. pmlq wouldnt be out…they will shake hands with pmln……soon there will be revival of friendship bw old friends…sh rasheed chauhdaries and ns will be buddies again

  195. @missing pakistan

    atleast bc of his revolution broughtup by laywers the true faces of politicians have been balatantly exposed….now it doesnt take an eisntein to figure out the bb and ns and fazlu are all promoting there own selfish agenda…

  196. ***news*
    suicide bomber car collide with the army kid school bus in kamra…killing 5 and 10 immensely injured…

    look mush what youve done the country…

  197. in a very recent interview to an american channel mush said

    ‘i can give my life for pakistan’

    Is khabees ko ****mycin k tekay lagnay chahein.

  198. There was no option left for PML-N but to contest the polls and this is a wise decision. dont be just sentimentals. see the crooks are getting together on the national decision making forums. for movement of restoration of the judges the right time is comming soon in january-08, watch out and be ready to put your share.

  199. @jamil

    what change can he bring with a minority in parliament….he could have done damage by bycotting..

    anyways they r all the same]]

    may ik bring some change

  200. What a pathetic cheap trick NS is playing.
    How could he act like mir jaafer for lawyers movement?????????????

    Munafiqat ki bhee had hoti hay, and poor,naive and idiot awam, they can believe everything! They are sumun bukmun, their minds are safe and frozen in the upper compartment of skull!!!

  201. @all
    I support NS decision to go for elections. It was always my advice to IK to contest no matter what and btw I can say that being an active member of PTI and actually participated in protest rallies. I believe thistime the elections will be rigged but not to the extent we have seen before in 2002. the reason, all eyes from every part of the world are watching the elections very closely, with ambassadors from almost all civilized countries filing reports on daily basis to their respective countries. if army trys to manipulate the results as they did in 2002 it will surely going to generate a big movement. we definitely need NS to contest in order not to give establishment a clean walkover without any body contesting the results. remember the only reason justice wajih contested in presidential elections to declare himself an aggrieved party. it was a basis of his election contest and earned him alot of respect and I believe wajih will be the next president of pakistan anyway. similarly we need NS to contest on two point agenda
    1) restoration of judiary as of nov 2
    2) no indemnity to musharraf

    if he makes these two points his election agenda and mobilize people all over pakistan and believe me pakistan has a bright future. IK on the other hand will be his helping hand outside of parliament and next election which will be within an year both NS and IK will be fighting together.

  202. Guys, have you seen any big rallies by IK. Can you come out of utopia. I doubt anybody has the bal1$ to bring people out. It was Geo, Aitezaz, Kurd, and Iftikhar Ch which brought out people. BB won’t do it for her own reason. While NS has stil no confidence in him that if he can lead an agitation all by himself. Do you know why? because there was not a single group of people which can reach to Airport on 10th september.

    All of you guys today blaming NS, where were you when he was kicked out on September 10th.

    Ch. Nisar on Geo TV, that NS followers are not Jayalas, they wil come out for vote, but are not ready to get beaten up.

    So Please come out of Utopia and give Nawaz Sharif benefit of doubt, atleast he is talking about Judiciary.

  203. @imran malik on November 30th, 2007 5:41 am
    –nawaz has announced bycott.dont worry and
    –dont read too much into the statements made
    –by iqbal and co…

    –nawaz is going to bycott.

    @imran malik on November 30th, 2007 1:21 am
    –good news awaits us in few weeks…
    –guies dont loose heart

    So imran, AB MAROON SALYEY KO? And was this the “good news” we are supposed to be awaititng for?

  204. econfused

    ns is talking about judiciary…ok then fazlu is also talking…..

    all these politicians do is talking….we dont need f**king talking…

  205. econfused

    ns is talking about judiciary…ok then fazlu is also talking…..

    we dont need freaky talking any more…

    we want to see them sacrificing there seats in assemblies,,ministries…bank accounts…bail from jails…

  206. @NOTA


  207. I was giving him benefit of doubt ..but now its quite obvious that he is back to his establishment savy ways…he is again talking in establishment language…

  208. @econfused
    “So Please come out of Utopia and give Nawaz Sharif benefit of doubt, atleast he is talking about Judiciary.”

    I have no doubt about NS any more. All have been cleared. And what a sorry excuse about Judiciary — by this very act he is now working against them.

    @Kruman on December 4th, 2007 5:51 am
    “Nota, You are too pessimistic my friend. Stay positive. I fully believe that NS will not let the people of Pakistan and the judiciary down.”

    Like I said, I was not being pessimistic but being a realist 🙂

  209. @admn

    you can have videos where people speak about pagal kuta, now whats wrong if i have said greedy dog? too much moderation bro.

  210. I have been saying all along, NS boycott means nothing except some credibility. But when all parties are for election, and people are out there waiting in lines to get Atta. NS has no choice but to go for election.

    If he boycotts, Ch. start running around in Punjab, that NS is boycotting cuz his papers were rejected.

    What I am trying to say is, we (idealists on this site – read idiots) are in for a long battle. Don’t count on NS or BB, vut atleast give NS benefit of doubt.

    While we can try to be part of lawyers movement. We should come out on the roads whenever IK calls us for a protest.

    We have to remember those judges in our sleep and do all whatever we can.

    Political difference aside, as long as visitos of site agree, that CJ has given us hope, and we are not going to lose that hope cuz of actions taken by NS or BB.

  211. @nota
    look at these ns supporters…dont they seem like jyaalaas of bb…y r we as a nation so adamant about our loyalities….i always try to go by right and wrong instead of personalities…and i think that u r right on money when u say that there is no doubt left ab ns ..now …

    he is back to his political school of thought and that is to be hypocrite and do
    back channel deals with establishment….

  212. There is no black and white in Politics. Its only shades of grays. Do you guys forget about the resignations from Assemblies. If PPP and Fazlu have resigned, things might have been diffeent today. Trying to discredit NS is not going to help things any further.

    Read all posts and you will see there are posts for and against NS boycott decision.

    I am saying he could have won credibility, but that was the end of it. What I am trying to say is we should keep our campaign about CJ and other judges alive.

    Ideas are advertisement campaign in western newspapers, google searches and tv.

  213. @imran malik
    “he is back to his political school of thought and that is to be hypocrite and do
    back channel deals with establishment….”

    I would even go as far as to say that saying he is back to his political school of thought is wrong. He never left it. As I said before, all this was pure drama and nothing else. And I will also stick to my claim that all those meetings going on about “charter of demands” were not about ironing out differences and pushing for restoration of judiciary but what was going on behind closed doors was talk of seat adjustments

  214. A bit of history…Excerpt from A Soldier’s Life:
    According to Gen Mitha, it was Gul Hasan who saved Brig Zia-ul-Haq, as he then was, from being sacked. Zia was in Jordan. The year was 1971. Gen Yahya received a signal from Maj Gen Nawazish, the head of the Pakistan military mission in Amman, asking that Zia be court-martialled for disobeying GHQ orders by commanding a Jordanian armour division against the Palestinians in which thousands were slaughtered. That ignominious event is known as Operation Black September. It was Gul Hasan who interceded for Zia and had Yahya let him off. Mitha was treated very badly. His Hilal-i-Jurat was withdrawn in February 1972, something that also appears to have been Gul Hasan’s handiwork. He remained under surveillance through the Bhutto years. All doors of employment were closed on him and had it not been for the generosity of a friend living abroad, who asked Mitha to manage his farm for him, he would have been on the street.

    After he died, one of his friends wrote to his wife, “At the end of a tumultuous life, all he wanted was a room to sleep in, one to write and eat in – a space to walk, reflect and gaze across the fields to the distant hills.� That is not a bad epitaph for a soldier.

  215. @imran malik
    “and any idea y bb left for dubai in a rush??
    what is brewing there…”

    No idea. Maybe now that everything is finalized, reporting to her masters, finalizing details of what she will deliver, offering thanks, excited by her “achievements” scr*wing Zardari, some Sheikhs and others, doing some heavy shopping and salivating at the prospects of how much more she can rob, setting up new bank accounts, Your guess is as good as mine.

  216. Gramaci had once said that we should have ‘pessimism of intellect and optimism of will’. It is with this stance that I am writing this note.

    The days of mid March when the lawyers’ movement for the restoration of CJ was in full swing seems a distant part. July 20th when the CJ was restored seems a distant past. Those days and today seems to be separated by one day – September 10th. I think that was the crucial day. When Mush was able to sent back NS to SArabia without much public resistance (even the SC did not take Suo Moto notice), that was the moment his self-confidence came back. From that day onwards the hope for a democratic tarnsition within a forseable future has been decreasing.

    There is since then a noticable pattern – raise hopes destroy hopes, raise hopes destry hopes – and with each step make the once unthinkable acceptable. So we were made to believe that Musharraf will not be able to get re-elected in uniform; but he did. We were made to believe his elections will be declared illegal; but matters did not even reach that stage. We were told once he sheds his uniforn he will be a sitting duck; but at-least reamins at a safe distance. We were led to hope that all parties will boycott the elecetions; but almost all of them found ways to justify their participation. Now we are told, let see perhaps people would show their response by boycotting the elections. Now we are told that with NS in the election Mush will not be able to get 2/3 majority. Now we are told there will be post-election agitation on the claims of riggining and that will end Mush. Now we are told these parties will restore judiciary.

    But what makes me not be optimistic about any of these is the fact that Mush himself wants everyone to participate in the election. Elections and participation are in line with Mush’s palns not against it. March 9th and its after effects happened beacuse things went against Mush’s plan beacuse one person said to NO to him. Today, there is no NO to Mush. If knowing fully well that he needs indemnity from the parliament, he still wants everyone to participate, it seems to me that he has a game plan to deal with this situation. It is beacuse of this belief that I am not convinced that BB or NS are correct or honest when they say taht are contesting to stop PML (Q) from a clean sweep. My intellect forces me to be a pessimist.

    But, then I cannot help but compare the present situation with 1857. Then too there were moments when it was felt that the Company rule is a matter of days. There were heydays of the fight under Bakht Khan. But then the tide turned. The British remained in power for the next 90 years. Yet, 1857 was not a waste. It saw the seeds of political consciousness that gradually made the removal of British posisbile. It created the educational and social movementum that continued to expand. Eventually, 1857 came to be seen as a defeat in a battle but the beginnins of a victory in the war. This gives me the optimism of will.

    We need to remember that 1947 was about physical independence. Moral independence is always a greater struggle – just like moral jihad is more difficult than physical jihad.

    Now we are trying to free ourselves from ourselves. It will take time. The greatest achievement of the events from March 9th is that we are all now alive and conscious. Till that day, I used to read about Pkaistan passively, but today I read it with interest, passion and hope. I am sure taht must be the case with many of you as well.
    This is wherein lies the hope, thsi is where in I gain the optimism of will.


  217. Nota,
    I have held for a long time that the best strategy, if you must take part in polls, is to run on a single point agenda i.e. restoration of judiciary.

    That is exactly what PMLN plans to do. I still believe that NS will not let the judidicayr and the people down.

  218. @kurman

    did he (NS) himself told u this secret that he wouldnt let judiciary down …or are you judging it by his track record….if his track record is any thing to go by then i believe you need to hire some body to train you the skills on opinion making…

  219. Here’s what I had posted here on Nov 24th)

    About APDM announcing boycott of elections:

    Is APDM pulling a “Fazlu” a-la-resignations?
    I mean they say they will boycott elections “in principle” and give Mush 4
    days to lift Emergency/PCO.

    * Let’s see if they announce it tomorrow (25th) this will take them to (29th).
    * Mush is going to probably give up uniform 29th anyway as he has to take oath
    before December 1 i.e. 30th and I am sure since he wants to be a “legit”
    “President”, he won’t take the oath under emergency meaning emergency will
    be lifted 29th anyways.

    And there you have it.
    -APDM can claim victory.
    -Mush is “legitimized”, at least by APDM
    -Elections take place as scheduled and
    – everyone participates “legitimizing” the
    – elections
    -People are told they are the real victors.
    -People are happy with another farse

  220. Dear Admin,

    Can u kindly let me know why some comments ‘await moderation’? What is your criteria? If you have a policy, and if it is on your web, can u point to it? Bara ajeeb sa lagta hai when one writes something topical and wants to engage with someone but the comment is put on moderation when nothing abusive, explosive or extreme is written.


    Site uses an automated moderation system which has list of rules as well as words to automatically put the comments in moderation queue, there are several such words which will be blocked, including bad names in english.
    Also if you use the word admin it will also be put on moderation, this is sort of a rule which means you want to convey something to admin , therefore comment is put in moderation queue for the easy viewing by admin. Therefore unless you are addressing directly to admin like in this post try to use different spelling for admin e.g. @dmin
    hope that clarifies.

  221. @Kruman
    I have held for a long time that the best strategy, if you must take part in polls, is to run on a single point agenda i.e. restoration of judiciary.”

    He might run on that one point but only to use it to get votes. Please stop believing he is sincere. Restoration ain’t gonna happen and I guarantee it.

    “None are so blind as those who cannot see.”

  222. I am a supporter of Imran Khan and I told all my family to vote for him. But since he is not running in the elections i think we have to vote for Nawaz Sharif.

    I would have loved to see nawaz Sharif boycotted also like Imran Khan but I guess too much pressure from his party workers and leaders has forced him to contest.

    Till now he stands by his words, not to support Mush on any of his un-constitutional acts and restoration of judiciary. So we have to support him.

  223. Imran Khan zindabad. It shows real face of BN and NS that they are not fair with the country they only want govt. which ever way they have to go for this. The only reason people doesn’t come out to the street.
    Imran Zindabad

  224. yeh tou waho bat hai
    saari rat rote rahe mara koi b nahi.
    is country k politicians ka Allah hi hafiz hai jo kabhi inhoon ne apni bat sachi iki ho ya us pe kaaim rahe hon.
    i salute imran khan.
    and i hate munafik-ur-rehman now new persons were added which are nawaz sharif and bb .but not aitzaz ahsan

  225. I don’t agree with Athar that people do not come on street because of these corrupt political leaders. They don’t come out because they are not yet sensitive enough to translate their emotions into an effective and meaningful activism.

  226. @ admin
    Thanks for the clarification about moderation. I noted that the after moderation the comments appear according to the time it was sent. Now this time can be several minutes or hours earlier than when it actually appears on the forum. By taht time people have moved on and thuis the comment can be wasted. Is there a way to put the moderated comment as the latest comment with a note that it was originally sent at an earlier time?

    Since I may have your attention may I also request that you consider adding a browsing feature on the site (and if it is already there, point it to me). The site is now a superb source of archival material on post March 9th political history of Pakistan. Browsing would make going back to an earlier programme or discussion easy.



  227. HEre goes our last hope….. back to the vicious circle again. This assembly will not last more than 3 years and the same army-politicians-judiciary games will be played over nd over again. This was our last chance as a nation and we lost it. Hats off to the braves like the judges, lawyers, civil society activists and very few politicians like Imran Khan but there struggle and sacrifices are all gonig down the drain 🙁 We will just look back at these last couple of months as months of awakenng of our nation from a senseless stupor. Now we are heading back into deeper abyss.

  228. @safshan
    — Agreed upon. In currect circumstances what else one can do. I was looking for IK, NS, JI etc united together either in their bycott or in contesting elections. Bycott decision is definitely most appropriate and ASOOLI. Though it is arguable and debatable to finally go for bycott or not to provide open ground to all EVILS. Sad that NS+IK seems not be coupled in the struggle.
    — By the way where are those people now who were propagating undue hatred against JI?. But anyways we need Imran yet, I consider it a BIG hope for youth of Pak and I pray for his health and stregth to keep struggle going on.

  229. I have been saying this all along that Nawaz SHARIF is not going to boycott the election. All three biggest political parties PPP, PML N&Q and MQM are in business for to rule. Now we have to support the less currupt party in coming election……I beleive PPP is the most currupt and criminal political party that PAKISTAN will ever incounter, so incoming election my first choice will go to PML-N in Punjab (PML-Q are going to merge into PML-N sooner then the later) and in sind MQM, in NWFP and Bluchistan is ANP.

  230. In my view all parties should contest elections with slogan to uphold free judiciary and rule of law on top of agenda.

    Though Imran Khan is sincere but having small support in public in fact. 95% of paksitanies are illetrate and Imran Khan is representing 5% only. It can not work for the near future.

    The best way is to participate in elections and formulate like minded parliamentary group to struggle for independant judiciary, free media and pure democracy.

  231. Any idea if there would still be a charter of demands which was supposed to have things like a new caretaker setup, new election commision etc.. Now that they are fully on the side of of participation, will these demands be put & will Mush be willing to accept any of them..

  232. PML(N) made a right choice. Lawyer and PTI can remain a pressure group as they have their limits while political parties(big) can fight in and outside parliament. Voter should come out on 8 Jan and vote for those who stand for rule of law. By sitting in homes and chanting slogans will not chnage our destiny. Normally we have a turn out of 40%, imagine if it goes to 80% like western countries then what can happen. The polls are rigged for the silent majority who does not care and sit home thinking some body from heaven will come and save them.

  233. I agree to my colleagues here who are condeming NS and disagree with my opinion. I respect their opinion.

    All I want to say are two things.

    IK was cheated by IJT and it could not have been possible without wink from JI leadership – so why is he sitting with them even now.

    Secondly why Aitizaz Ahsan has not severed his links with BB – and its six months now since CJ was restored and BB had been negogiating with Musharraf. Aitzaz is still giving vague statements – why doesnt he say in black and white like IK that he is not contesting the elections or at least he could have returned the PPP ticket

    These are very very important questions.

    IK should learn now not to waste his time on alliances –

    If JI is so clear about boycotting the elections then why hasnt it thrown out JUI from MMA or leave MMA.

    I believe JI is also playing politics of convenience.

    Except IK no one is sincere. So what IK should do is that instead of wasting his time on alliance he should concentrate on his party and broaden the base of PTI – he has to offer an alternate leadership and his time is going to come in next few years Inshallah.

    AS for NS although I disagree with his decision but I relish this fact that Inshallah Q would be routed – and if that happens – that would be a revenge to some extent –

    If PMLN doesnt perform in this elections then NS leadership is doomed forever. He has taken a very big risk – no doubt about that.

  234. first
    who the hell r these saudies they r offering exile to chief justice why may be on behalf of america why they r interfaring in pakistan again n again
    and now finally ns has shown his coward face these politicians have nothing to do with free judiciar they r hungary for power shame on u ns u prove that u r paying ur role according to deal

  235. @Faisal
    “Any idea if there would still be a charter of demands which was supposed to have things like a new caretaker setup”

    Like I said — it was all a hoax. They have already said we will not boycott. “Demands” were to be made that if not met they would boycott. Issuing demands now makes no sense.

  236. when NS came on sept 10 then JI, PTI, JUI(F), ANP etc did not come in large numbers to receive him as they had promised to NS. Qazi said that he did not arrange a big reception to avoid confrontation. Imran has landed at Islamabad airport through another flight but did not come to meet NS. I think they all were playing with him and wanted that NS is not avaialable in Paksitan during elections so that they can steal his vote bank. Now they are doing their best to isolate NS. Qazi can not leave JUI(F) and Imran cannot leave JI so who is the leader here, may be Fazlu. Do we want to follow Fazlu or other sensible leader like NS

  237. @Haroon
    Good pic. IF we had laws, this could be used as evidence of misappropriations 🙂 Those cycle posters have been put up all over Lahore. I hope public servants were not used in any way. Oops!!!

  238. yaqub2005 on December 10th, 2007 9:58 am

    i second your comments. parties like JI, PTI, JUI(F), ANP etc want NS votebank really and are not really sincere with restoration of judiciary. If they are offered now to take all votes that were to be casted to NS they will jump in the election ring now arguing that ‘We will fight for restoration of judges in the parliament’

    NS is not letting them play this manipulation game. If these parties want to really fight for judiciary they had ample time to date to do that and no one is stopping them for doing this in future?

    Needless to say NS is fighting for judiciary both inside parliament and outside and i pray that he succeeds in his just cause

  239. Imran khan is the only politician with INTEGRITY. We need a lot more like him or a lot more support for him if we want to live as an HONOURABLE nation.
    Our decisions should be based on PRINCIPLES not on oportunitism. All other politicians are oportunist, but i am happy there is one man in our politics who stands HEAD and SHOULDERS above the rest and soon he is going to emerge as the ONLY choice left for the people to choose.

  240. I wonder what is keeping back JI and IK from holding mass rallies and protests along with civil society and lawyers, JI is very capable of it and this can definitely increase the pressure on mush

  241. the party which did not resign on Haddod Ordinace issue due to mysterious reasons and against all promises and again same happended on Lal Masjid, can not or does not want any movement they know that they will be out of govt in NWFP as JUI(F), PML(Q) and PPP(Sherpao) will be there. In KHI MQM and Q league and PPPP so again no chance. in Balocjsitan no chance and in Punjab no chance again so just try to sit outside like PTI and claim that judges will be restored when even Hadood Ordinace and Lal Masjid could not be avoided. Best is to fight in and outside parliament.

  242. further to redcliff comments:
    Why has JI been so quite since 3 Nov? They considered themselves masters of organised street protests? Why did they not start agitation on 3 Nov when their annual congregation was held/ongoing and they had all their workers attending, so ideal time to start a process? Why is IK hiding behind JI?

    is there any under hand deal with Mush? may be similar to when MMA assisted him Mush passing 17th amendment, which dampened all the efforts of opposition to build pressure on Mush at that time? and which resulted in Mush clinging on to presidency (legally) until Nov 3?

  243. I don’t think that NS deserves the benefit of doubt. He was never fully convinced to bycott the elections. That is why he was looking for excuses all the time including a futile meeting with BB. In fact he was always scared to keep the field open for PML,Q and PPP. His resolve was not like IK or even QHA. At this point, I can only see hope in lawyers community, journalist fraternity, student community and civil society. Rest is nonesense. These politician will only reinforce tyranny – and why don’t they do it as they survive on the strengthening of these evil forces.

  244. @Malek

    sorry i dont agree with you, JI can be seen all our the country protesting vehemently, unfortunately they dint get that much attention. Plz stop defaming JI. The only party sacrificing so mh by boycotting.

  245. dervish ali
    you answered in your comments YES ‘NS/he was always scared to keep the field open for PML,Q and PPP’ ….. so they do not get to 2/3rd majority to bulldoze judiciary in parliament.

  246. bycott

    where though?

    outside CJP residence?
    outside jud@es residence in Lahore?
    inside PU when IK when there?

    i have only seen glimpse of them at APDM meeting?

  247. @bycott
    JI (and all other political parties) have not yet managed a single significant demonstration against the real issue i.e. the restoration of judges and media

    Remember what havoc JI brought to lhr when wajpai came or over the cartoons issue ?

  248. NA had taken a very wise decision to contest elections.Guys instead of criticising think logically. I am sure if PPP boycotted NS will also. But when PPP taiking part there will be no use of boycott because ppp gives legitimacy to the elections. And with NS not taking part PLMQ, MQM together with PPP and JUIF will make 2/3 majority and validate all steps of Nov3.Atleast not it will not be a cakewalk for them. What did APDM achieve when they resigned from asemblies at Mush re election and PPP did not. Nothing. Its the same case now. Guys open your brains and think. All the parties boycotting now know it will be difficult for them to egt 1 NA seat including IK thats why theyr boycotting.

  249. malek,

    You are convincing enough to put me in doubt about IK and JI. You are right, same point Ansar Abbasi raised that QHA could come out on street same day as they had their huge meeting having more than 25k participants.

  250. yes dr shahid asked JI in some prog that the annual convention of JI was underway and thousands of workers were attending it when emergency was declared, Police came and arrested qazi sahib and there were no news of
    any resistance
    Dr shahid said that this is not the JI that we know

  251. This boycott will just keep educated and emotional people out of elections and as a result this will benefit Mush Party.

    Its time to collect our forces against Mush Party instead of more division which is infact like strengthening Mush Party.

    Boycott must have been good if all major opposition parties had boycotted. But after PPP decision to contest elections, there is no point to boycott and ultimately help Mush Party.

    We shoud come out and vote against Mush Parties so that they don’t get 2/3rd majority to legitimize Mush actions of Nov. 3.

    I wish NS and IK get together in elections against Mush

  252. in my estimation, all parties should take part in the 8th january, 08 election in order to block and Tough resistance agianst the non-constitutional steps of SO-CALLED PRESIDENT PERVEZ MUSHARAF in the parliment.

  253. With deep regret, I will have to say to you ‘concerned pakistani’ that instead of us (who are opposing the decision of participating in election) you need to use your brain. The need of the hour is not to participate in the polls but to bycott it. By participating you will just maintain the status quo. That’s it. And I do not need to say that this is what establishment wants at this moment. On top of that another point which is more dangerous and detrimental is: it will clearly be mush’s victory if all major parties particpate in elections. This is exactly what he wants. To secure legitimacy through elections and upcoming assemblies. Take my words, not a single party will get clear majority. Thus, we will have a hung parliment. And what a president, who is dictator in his origin and with the extraordinary power of 58(2)b, needs more. Nothing. He will have all the powers in his hands and nobody will there stopping him. The best move, at this point of time, will be to get rid of mush, through public protest/agitation, reinforcement of constitution as it was on Nov 2, restoration of judiciary i.e. Iftikhar chaudry and his team, lifting of ban on media, establishment of a national interrim government and finally having a fair and fee elections. You must have read the news by now, that constitution will be restored with some ammendments. What does this mean? From here you can have an idea that what will be status (auqat) of the upcoming parliment. Judiciary has already been corrupted. All the possible institutions of the state have been destroyed. We are moving towards an anarchy. And some of my colleagues still think that we should wait and see tamasha. Strange! very strange!

  254. Its NS who put the breaks on the movement for the restoration of judiciary by announcing at APDM platform & at Judges residences(see the footage), that they will boycott as well as they will convince BB& Fazlu.

    And now he is using the same old spin doctorine as used by BB, he can boycott at very last moment(when it would be clear to him he cannot get even the 16 seats that he got in the previous election)

    The need of the hour is to have someone with clear ideas & no dictation.

    He took the dictation from the low key foriegn diplomats & assured them not to boycott while the people unanimously voiced for boycott when he asked from people. But He gives more weightage to foriegn powers(where he was living in house arrest) than the people.

  255. @Malek

    I feel ashamed for what IJT did with IK, but to me its dont matter either they went outside the house of CJP or not, btw IJT was the first one to place the flowers outside judges houses in Lahore.
    I dont know Dr. Shahid was talking in which context, but they came out to Multon road right after the convention and protested there for 3 hours. I still think after taking out the nomination papers JI will able to mobilize more people than did yet.

  256. @M. Rasheed Khan

    Let me ask you one thing when you know that elections are illegal & would be rigged, then how you would get a reasonable seats in parliament except embarrasement.

  257. No boycott is the right choice.
    People should vote for candidates which are fighting for rule of law. Vote is only mean to bring a change and all that is required is to come out of houses on Jan 8 and vote. Rigging of 25,000 votes can be easily confronted by raising the %age of votes to 70-80%. Establishment is trying to use some parties to make people sit at homes so that they their votes can be casted as oer their wish. You know that if you do not go to vote then soe one elase can use your vote for rigging. If you go for vote then they cannot, even if they do then you can cast another vote by appearing before election officer and proving your identity, you will be issed a special ballot to be counted separately but that will make the difference and expose rigging.

  258. I believe that NS dont have guts for leadership and BB do have but acting Hippocraticly and playing in the hand of US. Mulana is just focusing on getting power in two provinces to do the constituency politics. He is more scared to PPP of getting power and changing the Islamic articles of the constitution of Pakistan.

  259. He was for boycott for two weeks & the all of a sudden spinned, why?

    Because he took the dictation from the low key foriegn diplomats & assured them not to boycott while the people unanimously voiced for boycott when he asked from people. But He gives more weightage to foriegn powers(where he was living in house arrest) than the people.

    Have you people any answer to these facts.

  260. @Asif

    You are absolutely right. The elections will be rigged.

    This rigging can only be stopped if people of Pakistan come out against Mush. That is not happening at all. Just a few hundred people come out in protests till today.

    No political party has been able to have a protest against Mush in big numbers. Whether it was IK or QHA or any one else? Students, lawyers and media is trying to their best. But the people are sleeping at home.

    Boycott can be meaningful if people are out for protests and make the life of Mush difficult.

  261. the party workers and candidates dictated NS to go for polls and not any outside masters. after democracy is about majority decision and majority of PML(N) wanted to go for election other wise people will vote for others and they will be diffcult to vote for them next time. JI and PTI were using the vacant space avaiable due to unavaiability of PML(N) leadership. JI got many seats in NWFP and Punjab due this fact alone. PTI only had one seat and that too when Imran was upporting Mush. the of boycott bt JI and PTI may be due to mysterious reasons.

  262. @Wajid Malik

    It was NS who put the breaks when he assured to go for boycott but then spinned after taking dictation from low key foriegn diplomats.

    Instead asking for protest you are too siding with the spinned ones.

  263. you are right malek that he was scared of PML, Q and PPP getting two third majority but not for bulldozing the constitution and judiciary but for stopping all the possibilities of him/his party coming to power. Don’t you rember what he was doing in 1999 that created the pretext for dictator’s accession to power. Sorry I cannot think so naively. If he were honest, he will never wait for anybody to bycott election. Don’t forget that his party is one of the two largest parties in the country. He has enough popular support to add feul to the fire that has already been ignited by lawyers, students, journalists and civil society. And don’t you know that his own brother Shahbaz was pro-election. Sorry dear, but i do not buy the idea that he is doing everything in the interest of this country

  264. @yaqub2005

    If you don’t consider them people who unanimously voiced for boycott when NS asked them for their opinion, then its your fault. And no one can help you out.

  265. There is no difference between LOTA LEAGUE ,WESTERN GIRL and ESTABLISHMENT BALOO,they are playing thier parts as per the directions of ALAMI GUNDA MUFAI ,they may be enemy of each other including MUSH ,but they are just like different wives of a husband ,they fight with each other but all obey the husband and do thier roles as per the assigned jobs ,MUSH IS FIRST ,LOTA LEAGUE IS SECOND ,WESTERN GIRL IS THIRD and Establishment BALO is the fourth one .DO not waste your vote ,these wives of ALAMI GUNDA MAFIA will be obedient servant to thier HUSBAND ,enjoy thier fight ,do not trust them ,they will never ever do any thing to restore the brave judges because the ALAMI GUNDA MAFIA can not get its dictation followed properly by his wives in the presence of a brave judiaciary ,also these wives are like those girls who have some week points (in terms of thier corruption in the case of these wives) that they will ever be blackmailed by thier husband ,if they wish to refuse to follow his instructions or want divorce ,so DO NOT HAVE ANY HOPE IN THESE FOUR WIVES OF Alami Gunda MAfai

    Long LIve Young Lawers ,students and all those politicians fighting for the restoration of brave judges.

  266. @Asif
    Rigging is a reality especially in rural areas where people are illietrate and do not know their rights and election procedures. However we have two choices. either to go for revolution like French, Iranian but that is not even the idea of JI or PTI or Lawers. or we bring chnage through vote.
    We should not call a delivery to be bowled as “No ball” until it has been bowled and was overstepped. May be he he does not overstep.
    We should find ways to use their conditions to bring chnage while remaining in the system. Revolution needs more than just JI and PTI. while JI is doing its politics for decades but what is the result. And JUI(F) is even worse.

  267. @Asif

    I am out in every protest in Islamabad and I join civil society, students, lawyers and media and wish the people to come out and through Mush out of President House.

    Just talking online is very easy but to face the brutal force of police on roads is difficult.

    Division will just result in sterngthening of Mush. NS and IK should be together and start a campaign against Mush and his parties. If they remained divided, nothing will be achieved. But Mush will get the strength.

  268. So Mr. Sharif now How can you prove your claim of returning for Pakistan not for power. You and B.B both are playing for Musharraf and to show this game you both have been granted permission to be in Pakistan. You never love Pakistan, You both love power, money and etc

  269. @asif
    You have at least agreed that NS did ask its workers in Lahore for their opinion. But then NS also visited Qasoor, Rawalpindi, Hazara Division and also took their opinion. Majority said that a boycott with out ANP, PPPP will only damage rather than help the cause. Imagine a 2/3 majority of pro PCO people making laws in parliment and few hundred people chanting slogans. who will beneficiary.

  270. Parliament without rule of law is just bunch of feudal using state machinery for their own purpose and opperesing the powerless. Can anybody tell me what change last parliament brought in 5 years by using immense resources of this country?

  271. @yaqub2005

    But who assured you that madcow will allow you reasonable seats in parliament?

    NS in his all gatherings voiced for boycott(see the footage of news from various electronic media)

  272. as far as empire (Mush)and his credibilty is concered he has ruined by Judiciary. It was the worst scenario he could have thought. He is unpopular and was forced into dead end by no other than Q league. Imagine if he had removed the uniform in 2004 then he could have sustained some popularity and become head of Q league as hinted by Shaikh Rasheed but that could have ended Gujratis in a dead end. So they forced him by telling him that we will seect you in uniform 10 times. Until now things have be not that bad as afar as our history making is concerned as 60 yrs is a small time for nations. Remember Mush and Q leagure are in trouble. See their slogan of “Geo aur Geenay doo” meaning requesting other parties not make them responsibel for what has been done in last few months. i think soon army will ask him to quit. Gen Kiani has recently said that Army needs backing of nation to perfrom its task of defending the nation.

  273. CAN SOME SUPPORTERS OF NS have an idea how he would be able to retore the judges

    .He will get 2/3 Majority and will do it through

    First of all MUSH will never ever let it happen
    and let say it does happen ,it will be like his previous BARI Manadate ,As the International Forces do not want restoration of brave judges ,he would not be able to that ,

    What he do then

  274. It is not MUSH that have his Agenda ,IF MUSH leaves then that agenda is still there and it does not have restoration of brave judges

  275. @yaqub2005
    it isn’t like ‘few hundred people chanting slogans’
    did you see the reception of ns in lahore ! thousands of people were out! why can’t NS bring these people out for the restoration of judges ?
    why don’t they call of march towards judicial colony ISB to free the judges ?

  276. yaqub2005
    it isn’t like ‘few hundred people chanting slogans’
    did you see the reception of ns in lahore ! thousands of people were out! why can’t NS bring these people out for the restoration of judges ?
    why don’t they call of march towards judicial colony ISB to free the judges?

  277. Election compaign will mobilise people all over country in huge numbers than any small demo at scatted places. After the elections, the forces in and outside parliment can join to put pressure. Election compaign is a good reason to make people aware of the situation as many are still confused. with out this other movements will not be allowed. See the effects that Q league now does not want judges eviction from their homes as these can be used in election compaign agaist them and they will loose it.

  278. What Benazir, NS and Fazlu has done today – tomorrow if another military dictator will come and throw them out – no one from either the public or from teh judiciary would come to help them – that is for sure – why would anyone lose their jobs for such minions. Benazir is making deal with Musharraf against the judiciary and a daughter of another judge Safdar Shah is fighting on teh streets for rule of law. Her father was banished from Pakistan because he did not give verdict in Zia’s favour. Benazir is the most thankless politician and a very very greedy politician.

    Looking back now I see why Musharraf says these two should not be trusted. I believe CJ and other judges for no reason fought for Benziar and NS case.

    BZ aur NS ki yehi auqat hai – jis kay wo mustahik they and were out for many years from this country. They should have remained out.

  279. I believe that NS can neither get the simple majority to become the PM nor his brother can become the CM of Punjab. There are obvious reasons for that.
    1. Can not won enough seats because don’t enjoy such popularity
    2. Establishment and Army dont want somebody considered anti Musharraf
    3. Chudarys have got strong candidates with local Govt. structure supporting them (relatives of Nazims etc)
    4. Why BB is so active if NS has to become the PM
    5. What make us think that Pervais Elhai will not be the CM again if not the PM with the help of Mulana?
    6. Nawaz shairf cant get near to making Govt. in NWFP (Mulana’s area), SINDH (PPP+MQM), BALOCHISTAN (MULANA+Q leauge)

    I certainly see PML(N) winning same number of seats +-(10%) of those which she got in last election. This party will be out from the idealogical politics. For what purpose is doing all this? Surely missed a chance to win the support of civil society and educated people due to the inability of top businessman leadership

  280. @Chussain

    I second your opinion. These people (BB and NS) are thankless to Judiciary, Media and Civil society those really spoke in favor of them in the day everyone was against them.

  281. @ahson
    “they are just like different wives of a husband”

    I think pr.ostitutes of the same p.imp would be more appropriate analogy…

    As for all Nawaz “niwalay”, take the statements of Nawaz since he got back and those of BB and HONESTLY — I said HONESTLY — tell me, without any spin, who has been less truthful?

  282. @Boycott

    A lot of people are advocating boycott.

    PML (N), boycotts.

    Large proportion of N votes will go to Q.
    Where it does not, voters indecisiveness will let either PPP or Q to win that seat.

    In NA, majority seats will go to Q, PPP and Fazlu.

    They will endorse all the actions of Mush through 18th amendment.
    PPP will bargain for more favours.
    Mush will tell the international community that most of the parties have contested elections. West will be rather happy and satisfied.

    So, what Pakistan, judges and people will get if N, JI and IK boycott?????

    Just a smooth sailing for Q, MQM and PPP.

    If NS could not get BB to boycott, then contesting elections is the best option.

  283. Well, this is what I expected from SHER NS, lol. Like I said, in the very beginning that, NS would not boycott the elections, he was just trying to bluff, but now he is exposed.

    As I said earlier in this forum that, all these politicians including NS, SS, BB, Fazlu, Altaf etc… are blood sucking parasites and they would not let go chance to get into the parlianment and then loot the Pakistani AWAM again.


  284. @Adam

    If you think that these elections are legal, election commision is free & fair, then on Jan9 we don’t wanna listen your hue & cry that we have been cheated, elections are rigged.

  285. Taking part in the elections donot deprive any party from taking part in the struggle for restoring the judiciary in Pakistan to the position of 2nd Nov. But to leave the arena vacant for the opponents in unwise. The next parliament will fail soon and the system has to pass on to the process of revolution and change in Pakistan – a true struggle for democracy , end of military proxy power attaining rights and the restoration of judiciary — all very very necessary for the progress of the nation.

    1. Restoration of Judges
    2. No indeminity for Mush

    Let s stop fighting and lets do something. At least the election will mobilise the general public.

    Final point, the people did not come on the street. WE DESERVE MUSH AND BB AND MAY BE BUSH

  287. Because of what NS participating in the polls, he sinks his supporters down with him and I think, all the NS votes will go to the PML-Q now.

    My prediction is (which have been true till now) that BB and NS would be sitting in the opposition and Chaudries along with MQM and Fazlu would be holding the parlianment.

    Sometimes, I like Pervez Elahi so much, not because I support him, but because, he is so Anti- BB and NS, lol.

    I think, Musharraf was right, when he said that both NS and BB are so corrupt and he will not allow them to come back. But, then he had to allow them to come back, that was Musharraf’s weakness and some really wrong decision. I would like these leaders to be kicked out of the Pakistan again forever.

  288. @ Asif

    Elections will be “unfair” and “rigged”.
    I have absolutely no doubt. (You are welcome to call me names).

    But what options I have? or we have?
    Boycott and see PPP,Q etc in NA?

    I am just scared to see a parliment with more than 2/3 seats with Q, MQM and Fazlu.
    With PPP support, which it will definetly offer in return for NRO’s validation, non-PCO judges will be a gone case.

    NS’s participation in elections is definetly disappointing. But what good his non-participation will bring?

    By the way, are not NS and SS disqualified for elections???

  289. I wonder why they are not talking about political issues on Capital talk, Seems like Geo is avoiding talk on Political issues.

  290. To me taking part in election dont serve any purpose, rather it will blur the image of real opposition to fraudulent process. Can anyone supports the PCO Judges by same arguments or you call those judges wrong who dint take oath under PCO and let the others PCO Judges to come into. Boycotting of election would have been discredited the whole fake process. Can body willing to support and join them in future if they are kicked out in spite elected by the people?

  291. All those who are advocating boycotting the elections have my support. I wish opposition had a common stance on this issue.

    Just for my own education, will you people explain what do you foresee when

    IK, NS, JI boycott elections and
    PPP, Q, MQM and JUI participate in elections?

    What will happen on 9 Jan 08???

  292. I Believe there was a high time to repeat rather strengthen the same enthusiasm as people shown by supporting CJ after removing him before in march. I am sure there would have been another election within 6 months time but under the much better judiciary. BB is showing pleasure by getting his worse opponent NS into election process. There was a need to run a campaign for free and fair judiciary. After taking part in election with which face they will run the campaign against mussharf and in favor of Judiciary?

  293. By reading the comments here I must say that the movement for the rstoration of democracy is pre-mature and the peoples supporting it are sincere but a little childish at the same time. Every one who beleives in civil liberty and do recognize morals do support judiciary but why we forget it was the same CJ (including Mr Ramday who categorically said we are ashamed of our previous outh) who had taken outh on the PCO while Mr Wajih and Mr Saeed has denaid If any one who suppose to be hero should be MR wajih and Saeed. It seems That CJ choudry had just taken action out of his ego (I pray I am wrong) against Mush (Mind I am biggest enemy of mush long before your novice movement began) and another thing infact the biggest question why did’NT CJ Choudry summon a full tribunal when we was restroed and listening to the Qazi’s pattition. this is where the doubts comin in mind that its not as simple as it seems. Another question where did all the money is comming form for the movement we know from history every movement was funded by some one, who is funding in this case.

    I will support contesting the elections because both PPP and PMLQ are funded and aided by qadyanis if these 2 parties + MQM gain 2/3 mejority then we can do nothing to stop them to change the constitution in favour of Qadyanis.
    I hope no body is hurt from my analysis if yes then I applogise.

  294. A couple of days ago, everyone was advocating for boycott & restoration of judicary first.

    Now all of a sudden we have bunch of guys supporting elections after the spin of NS.

    If you have any doubts, go over all the posts on this site before NSs spin, you wont find anyone advocating for elections.

  295. NS had taken a very wise decision to contest elections.Guys instead of criticising think logically. I am sure if PPP boycotted NS will also. But when PPP taiking part there will be no use of boycott because ppp gives legitimacy to the elections. And with NS not taking part PLMQ, MQM together with PPP and JUIF will make 2/3 majority and validate all steps of Nov3.Atleast not it will not be a cakewalk for them. What did APDM achieve when they resigned from asemblies at Mush re election and PPP did not. Nothing.It benefitted PPP, BB Dictated terms to Mush and NRO came up. Same thing this time would have happened if NS did not take part.
    Guys open your brains and think. All the parties boycotting now know it will be difficult for them to get 1 NA seat including IK thats why theyr boycotting. How much demonstrations IK aur Qazi has done. Dont make Qazi a hero. Qazi expelled PML N from APDM. Raja Zaful Haq said when JUI F participates in elections MMA remains intact, why cant APDM not remain intact.
    Where 1 seat can make a government there you cant keep NS out.

  296. If somehow NS appears to be a part of the deal for legitimizing the elections, people won’t vote at all. PML(Q) exists nowhere. Most of the PML(Q) people like Nilofer Bakhtiyar would be eager to join PML(N). Some JI People will also join PML(N) like Hanif Abbasi. So PML(N) will get its due share. No future for PMl(Q). It won’t be easy to rig elections in favour PMl(Q), since they won’t be able to show majority in any rally. PPP has far better chance.

  297. @Asif
    “A couple of days ago, everyone was advocating for boycott & restoration of judicary first.
    Now all of a sudden we have bunch of guys supporting elections after the spin of NS.”

    That is why I said we ought to call them “Niralay” or “Niwalay” for they are exactly like “Jiyaly” 🙂 I just hope IK doesn’t give us such an opportunity one day…

  298. Agian we got cought by NS hypocratic attitude and his stance based in lies. He agian manipulated the situation and slowed down the momentume build up in the favor of CJ by saying that he will boycott he election. Majority of the people who were fighting for independent judiciary got miscued by NS and followed him for a while but agian he betrayed them. I am one of them who thought NS learned the lesson and this time wont let us down but a corrupt hypocrat industrialist is always hyocrate. I feel sorry that I vote for him in the past. The fact which I learned from someone is that a PMLN candidate told my friend that NS already made a deal with establishment before his arrival to PK that he wont boycott the election and he will stay at Punjab while BB will be at center after election and PMLQ will be diminished after election. He made all this drama of boycott, meeting with PPP for boycott and tried to give very samll time to APDM for aggitation agianst election boycott. In fact he got succeeded and all of his cards are doing well so far. How he can have an independent judiciary when he gave 63 tickets to feudals and indurialists. This is all NORA KHUSTI and TOPI DARAMA. The only hope is IK after Allah. The big change which is in the news will be the patchup which will leave NS in PUNJAB and BB in center.
    We the AWAM agian will be beating the CHANKERAN.

  299. @all boycotters
    I was always of the opinion (asif you can check my previous comments to be sure:)) that if BB doesn’t boycott (fazlu diesel was always an X i.e. “don’t care” of my political karnaugh map), then its no use of going for a boycott by rest of the opposition because it will not serve any purpose. NS had to go for an election in case BB was, as I mentioned before in my earlier comment. The only reason being to stop mushi from getting 2/3rd majority through his puppet EC, judiciary and bureaucracy. NS tried very hard to convince BB but couldn’t because she is acting on a written script whose writers don’t even allow her to skip a dot or a comma.

    The guys who are still insisting on a boycott, do they have an alternate action plan. Please I want to hear about it with open mind and I am ready to be convinced. Please don’t reply by saying that there will be hundreds of thousands of people marching towards army house in pindi and forcing mushi out after dec 15. Thats not gonna happen in present day scenario. Yep, there will be people out there in similar numbers to participate in election rallies run by NS and BB in coming days but not to storm islamabad, even if they both want them to.

    So here is the question for all wanna be boycotters:

    What is the action plan?

  300. @all boycotters
    I was always of the opinion (@asif you can check my previous comments to be sure:)) that if BB doesn’t boycott (fazlu diesel was always a “don’t care� of my political karnaugh map), then its no use of going for a boycott by rest of the opposition because it will not serve any purpose. NS had to go for an election in case BB was, as I mentioned before in my earlier comment. The only reason being to stop mushi from getting 2/3rd majority through his puppet EC, judiciary and bureaucracy. NS tried very hard to convince BB but couldn’t because she is acting on a written script whose writers don’t even allow her to skip a dot or a comma.

    The guys who are still insisting on a boycott, do they have an alternate action plan. Please I want to hear about it with open mind and I am ready to be convinced. Please don’t reply by saying that there will be hundreds of thousands of people marching towards army house in pindi and forcing mushi out after dec 15. Thats not gonna happen in present day scenario. Yep, there will be people out there in similar numbers to participate in election rallies run by NS and BB in coming days but not to storm islamabad, even if they both want them to.

    So here is the question for all wanna be boycotters:

    What is the action plan?

  301. @ bechaari-awaam
    I think NS and BB are two leaders who had been getting most of the votes for their party. I think rest of the parties don’t contribute even 10 percent of the votes. I am talking of National Assembly, not PAs. So if any one of the two parties had gone for boycot, it would have effected more the megitimacy of the election. I know rest of the parties don’t contribute since they were not expected to get more than 5 percent seats in any election.
    Next issue is that, no one can expect that after gatting enough seats in NA (if they could get), they would do anything for the restoration of judiciary. Thir sole good ould be to eliminate the chances of NA having two-third majoity to make PCO, emergency legitimate. And i doubt they would be enough to resist (even if they are positive in doing that).
    This has shifted all the burden on the small parties. If the judicary has to be restored, it has to be before any elections. Otherwise forget about it. All pro-politicans… even at this stage if they don’t open their eyes, I can only say they are supporting party not the party manifesto (the false promises).

  302. Salam all,

    For pakistani politicians and their lovers,

    Wo jhut bol reha tha bare saleeqe se
    main aitbar na kerta to or kya kerta

    Khuda hafiz

  303. @tanveer
    what I am looking for an action plan. What is the plan to go ahead in case NS boycotts the election. We will still be watch long lines of people waiting to cast votes on election day especially in sindh, nwfp, balouchistan and southern punjab, nullifying any claims of boycott. mushi gives a d@mn to word morality. just claiming thats elections are illegal will not even cause a penny difference on mushi’s health. he will still claim thats elections are legitmate with BB besides him and whole world will accept that. Believe me! now NS has made a decision the most worried man in Pakistan at this time is no other but mushi because its against his game plan and the only quick fix for this situation for him is to go for a massive scale rigging which he has no time left to implement/arrange without being exposed to watchful eyes of world’s media.

  304. @bechaari awaam

    I m sorry my friends but what is unimaginable for you is the only option left. If we can’t go for the right choice it does not mean that we make a wrong choice – especially before making any serious effort to make a right choice. How can you say that on the call of these two leaders, nobody will march towards Islambabad. You claim to be open minded about suggestion and you yourself eliminated the possibility of an option which you can’t see in your imagination. Surprised! I have already written this that election will be grave compromise of status quo. We are hearing this from all the cirlces that we are not going to have fair elections. On top of that, election will be mush’s greatest victory. Read Tipu’s elaborated comments on that. It is part of his/his masters’ plan that these parties should be embroilled in election drama so all the geniune agitation against mush goes down automatically. Now everybody will be running after elections and nobody will be thinking of real issues. What form of democracy you expect with article 58 2(b), with ammended constitution in favor of a dictator, with a corrupt juidiciary which has been constituted to provide full cover to all the illegal things the dictator and his muggers do, with your so called ‘civilian president’ housed in army house? These election will not go in favor of the country. It will just push us harder in the existing quagmire. I hope now you start thinking.

  305. @bechaari awaam

    If you think that walking towards Islamabad will be difficult i take your point for a while. Okay it is impossible. But don’t you think that the bycott by all the major parties would make the election absolutely irrelevant. More internal and external pressure will be exerted on the dictator. Temporarily the dictator would feel triumph but eventually he will have surrender power. He afford massive popular agitation.

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